Premarital Sex

[vegan]

I am sure this has been discussed before.

Where in the bible does it say premarital sex is wrong?

Thanks.

[Rafael]

4202 porneia porneia por-ni’-ah

from 4203; TDNT-6:579,918; n f

AV-fornication 26; 26

1) illicit sexual intercourse
1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; #Mr 10:11,12
2) metaph. the worship of idols
2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

Matthew 15:19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

Acts 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

1 Corinthians 5:1 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife.

1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

1 Corinthians 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

Corinthians 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1 Corinthians 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

1 Corinthians 10:8 Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

Corinthians 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

Galatians 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness

Ephesians 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

Colossians 3:5 Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:

1 Thessalonians 4:3 For this is the will of God, even your sanctification, that ye should abstain from fornication:

Hebrews 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.

Jude 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Revelation 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

Revelation 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Revelation 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.

Revelation 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

Revelation 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

Revelation 18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Revelation 18:9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

Revelation 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he hath judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand.

[sbbqb7n16]

excellent post raphe

also that "love is the fulfillment of the law" Romans 13:10 ... how much love do you have for your spouse if you would try out other women/men first? Not very much in my opinion...

[MizDoulos]

Reminder:&nbsp&nbspThere are members as young as 10 that frequent this board. Please remember to use acceptable content, including words and descriptions, when commenting on sexual matters. Any inapproriate, sexually-oriented posts will be removed.

Thank you for your cooperation.

[vegan]

Thank you for the verses. I am still studying them, but so far they have been helpful.

For something that is so important to Christianity, I am surprised Jesus never said anything about it (at least not in the verses you sent me).

Also, many of the commands not to fornicate seem to be tied to idol worship. 

Interesting.

 

[linda4jesus]

MizDoulos,

Thanks for the reminder, I sometimes forget that we have a young audience at times on these boards. We all need to set a good example for them.

[Rafael]

The verse in Colossians reminds us that anything before God is idolatry - including sexual sin. Idolatry is more than just worshipping a wooden idol, but is putting anything before God. Which is more important becomes the question. People can overcome by the blood of the lamb, though, and must try to control the lust of the flesh. Marriage is the provision God makes and blesses for sexual contact.

1 Cor. 6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s.
1Cor.7:1 ¶ Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Romans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Galatians 6:7  Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
Galatians 6:8  For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Revelation 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. 

[Live4Jesus]

It's in the 10 commandments, 'thou shalt not commit adultery'

the exception to the rule being that if a man know a woman ahead of marriage he should marry her.

[vegan]

Originally posted by Live4Jesus
It's in the 10 commandments, 'thou shalt not commit adultery'

the exception to the rule being that if a man know a woman ahead of marriage he should marry her.

Adultery and fornication are two different things.  The 10 commandments say nothing about fornication.  And, as far as I can tell, Jesus didnt either.  Later writers did, but it seems that it is often tied to idol worship or placing something ahead of spiritual purity.

I am not looking for a "loop hole" to justify fornication.  I am just beginning to wonder if it is clearly against Christ's teachings.

[seebs]

"Fornication" is a word coined to be a translation of the Greek "pornea". What, exactly, this means changes over time; if you read Greek literature and writings from Biblical times, or later, or earlier, you see that word's meaning *change* over time.

So, it's very hard to be sure what Paul actually wrote, or what Revelations was talking about; our modern use of the word may or may not match what they had in mind.

Basically, we're guessing. I don't think we really know. You can draw lines fairly far out, or fairly close in; as the definition of fornication gets broader, we get less certain that that's what the word really meant. If you declare that, say, ritualized rape as part of worship of pagan deities is "fornication", I doubt anyone would argue with you. If you argue that having sex with a pregnant woman, since it cannot result in pregnancy, is obviously sex-for-pleasure and thus fornication, most people won't agree with you.

Where's God's line? I don't know. I have never felt convicted against sex as an expression of love, nor inclined to condemn it in others, but I may well be missing the point. I've been married a long time, so it doesn't come up much for me directly, although I occasionally wonder about some of my friends.

[Stormy]

So is it the actual marriage ceremony that makes sex not a sin?

What if two people live together. They love each other and are true to each other. They even have a son. This couple has been together for three years. They see no purpose in getting married by the law because anyone can get a divorce. The paper means nothing. They would rather their "marriage" be bound by love not legal papers.

This is a couple that I know personally. The girl is a Christian but the guy is an agnostic. That is another reason why she does not want to agree to marry him. He is not aware that this plays a part.

What do you think?

[Live4Jesus]

Originally posted by vegan
Adultery and fornication are two different things.  The 10 commandments say nothing about fornication.  And, as far as I can tell, Jesus didnt either.  Later writers did, but it seems that it is often tied to idol worship or placing something ahead of spiritual purity.

I am not looking for a "loop hole" to justify fornication.  I am just beginning to wonder if it is clearly against Christ's teachings.

Not true, they are the same thing.

Try these for example:

John 4: 15 The woman saith unto him, Sir, give me this water, that I thirst not, neither come hither to draw. 16 Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. 17 The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: 18 For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly.


1 Corinthians 7:36 But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

Acts 21:25 - As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.

[Live4Jesus]

Originally posted by Stormy
So is it the actual marriage ceremony that makes sex not a sin?

What if two people live together. They love each other and are true to each other. They even have a son. This couple has been together for three years. They see no purpose in getting married by the law because anyone can get a divorce. The paper means nothing. They would rather their "marriage" be bound by love not legal papers.

This is a couple that I know personally. The girl is a Christian but the guy is an agnostic. That is another reason why she does not want to agree to marry him. He is not aware that this plays a part.

What do you think?

i think they should marry, kind of falls under 'avoid the appearance of evil'.

It's good for the father to fully acknowledge booth wife and child, in a public setting, under the law in case of anything, say he dies, they would have a hard time getting any insurance, anything, legal benefits etc.

i know someone that happened to too, they had 2 boys and he unexpectedly died and the govt came and took all the property because it was his and they weren't married. sad but true it does happen.

[seebs]

Originally posted by Stormy
So is it the actual marriage ceremony that makes sex not a sin?

I don't think so.


What if two people live together. They love each other and are true to each other. They even have a son. This couple has been together for three years. They see no purpose in getting married by the law because anyone can get a divorce. The paper means nothing. They would rather their "marriage" be bound by love not legal papers.

This is a couple that I know personally. The girl is a Christian but the guy is an agnostic. That is another reason why she does not want to agree to marry him. He is not aware that this plays a part.

What do you think?

I think it's not my place to judge them, and that there are many things that would be better focuses for any zeal I might have towards trying to eliminate sin from the world. :)

[Live4Jesus]

1 Corinthians 6:13 - Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.

[Live4Jesus]

Galatians 5:19 - Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

I can find lots of examples, its mentioned plenty.

But truly i do understand, when i was in it I could never find it either.

hope that helps.

be Blessed, stay holy.

[seebs]

Originally posted by Live4Jesus
Galatians 5:19 - Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

I can find lots of examples, its mentioned plenty.


What part of that do you think means "premarital sex"? We're trying to discover what the word "fornication" should be understood as meaning - not necessarily how it's been changed by men in the centuries since the Bible was written.

I cannot find anything that says that, if two people have fallen in love, and have sex, that this is necessarily sinful. I don't see any grounds for drawing such a conclusion, except the purely circular one of saying that, if we consider it sinful, it is sinful sex, and therefore fornication.

[Live4Jesus]

Originally posted by seebs
What part of that do you think means "premarital sex"? We're trying to discover what the word "fornication" should be understood as meaning - not necessarily how it's been changed by men in the centuries since the Bible was written.

I cannot find anything that says that, if two people have fallen in love, and have sex, that this is necessarily sinful. I don't see any grounds for drawing such a conclusion, except the purely circular one of saying that, if we consider it sinful, it is sinful sex, and therefore fornication.

Great, so if it's not sinful, which it may not be under some circumstances agreed, then they shouldn't run from marriage as though that is sinful either.

I can only give the biblical interpretation here seebs... past that I would be out of line.

heres the websters for fornication:

One entry found for fornication.
Main Entry: for·ni·ca·tion
Pronunciation: "for-n&-'kA-sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
: consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other -- compare ADULTERY

[Rafael]

I have always thought that fornication was all sexual sin outside of marriage and adultry was sexual sin while married - unfaithfulness to the spouse.
There are warnings in Timothy's and Peter's epistles about how there would be false teachers in the last days that taught that sexual sin would be okay and not harm ones spirit, but scripture is actuall clear as to what is right and wrong in the matter, if one is open to entering by the narrow way, and not the broad. Each person must judge for theirselves and be willing to accept the consequences of their actions and seed sown, whether to the flesh or the spirit.
I'm older now and can look back and see how important a holy life is, and that each mistake I made was one that left a mark or scar that could be forgiven, but the scar remains, regretfully, taking some of the former beauty away. There is a price for each sin, and the Lord warns us of sin so we are not hurt by them or even destroyed.
There are certain laws that are just plain fact when it comes to how we love and are loved, in His truth. Lives are ruined every day by sexual infidelities, and the older years reveal what seed has been sown and the fruit bore from that life.
I would advise any younger to not follow the world, but go the narrow way and see if God will not honor and bless those that obey Him. The other way leads to regret and anguish in older years.

Romans 6:12  Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13  Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

[stephen1964]

I have always considered Adam and Eve as the model of married life.  Of course they didn't have to worry about cheating on each other! 
But seriously... Jesus used this as an example in Matthew 19:4-6  "He answered, ‘Have you not read that the one who made them at the beginning “made them male and female”, and said, “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh”? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.’
I don't know if this specifically addresses pre-marital sex, but it seems to me that becoming one flesh is reserved for man and wife.  To be perfectly honest, I did not follow this moral code in my own life; but I didn't know Jesus then.  Thank the Lord for His forgiveness and saving grace!  :clap:

[YouthPastor]

1) God made Adam and Eve.  God also says that man was to leave his father and mother and be UNITED to his wife and the two would become one!

The uniting is what makes you one.  Paul in the NT even refers to being united to a prostitute, that by being "involved" with a prostitute you become one with her.  The prostitute is not the important part here - it is the "becoming one" that is the issue.  the "act" makes you "one flesh" with the other person.

You are meant to be "one flesh" ONLY with the person you are married to.

2)  We are to be different than the world.

1 Tim 4:12 says Don't let anyone look down on you because you are young, but set an example for the believers in speech, in life, in love, in faith and in purity

We are to be an example! An example in EVERY area of our life.

3)  Does premarital sex glorify God? 

Again - God says a man shall leave his father and mother and be united to his WIFE.  Not he shall be united to anyone he fells the need to "be with" or with anyone you fell you "Love"

[hugoguttman]

Originally posted by Stormy
So is it the actual marriage ceremony that makes sex not a sin?
Yes, but not the marriage ceremony before men, but marriage ceremony before the Father. As somebody said... paper does not mean anything to the Lord. But when you tie up your life to another person´s life before the Father... He is sanctifying the marriage and you are free to delight with your wife.


What if two people live together. They love each other and are true to each other. They even have a son. This couple has been together for three years. They see no purpose in getting married by the law because anyone can get a divorce. The paper means nothing. They would rather their "marriage" be bound by love not legal papers.

This is a couple that I know personally. The girl is a Christian but the guy is an agnostic. That is another reason why she does not want to agree to marry him. He is not aware that this plays a part.

What do you think?


I think it's not my place to judge them, and that there are many things that would be better focuses for any zeal I might have towards trying to eliminate sin from the world.

Yes, we should not judge anyone, BUT...
If I see a guy commiting robery and dont say anything to him... God Will demand me his blood. Judging is to say you are a thief. But I can say to him... You are not doing right things, and that is not judging. So, if the girl is christian, she must know that she is in yonker with an unbeliever, and sure she must know that having premarital sex (marriage ceremony before the Father) is fornication.
Divorce? There is only one reason to get divorced and could get marry again... Adultery. It´s a fashion right now to get divorce for caracter incompatibility...or maybe to live together for a while and when someone of the couple gets tired or bored... Hey!!! I must be going... and get separate lives... That is not good.
That is right, sometimes Holy Scripture means fornication as idolatry, but you can also find in Paul Letters that fornication is a sin against our body...
Pax.
Hugo.:wave:

[S Walch]

What if two people live together. They love each other and are true to each other. They even have a son. This couple has been together for three years. They see no purpose in getting married by the law because anyone can get a divorce. The paper means nothing. They would rather their "marriage" be bound by love not legal papers.

This is a couple that I know personally. The girl is a Christian but the guy is an agnostic. That is another reason why she does not want to agree to marry him. He is not aware that this plays a part.

What do you think?


I think it's not my place to judge them, and that there are many things that would be better focuses for any zeal I might have towards trying to eliminate sin from the world.

Le's take this from one of Pauls letters shall we?
1 Corinthians 7:1-9

1Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry. 2But since there is so much immorality, each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband. 3The husband should fulfill his marital duty to his wife, and likewise the wife to her husband. 4The wife's body does not belong to her alone but also to her husband. In the same way, the husband's body does not belong to him alone but also to his wife. 5Do not deprive each other except by mutual consent and for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6I say this as a concession, not as a command. 7I wish that all men were as I am. But each man has his own gift from God; one has this gift, another has that.
8Now to the unmarried and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I am. 9But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

Blatanly - marriage is good if passion is too much.

Also, from another of Pauls letters:

Hebrews 13:4

Marriage should be honored by all, and the marriage bed kept pure, for God will judge the adulterer and all the sexually immoral.




Premarital Sex:

If we take this from Jesus' Sermon on the Mount.

Matthew 5:27-30
27"You have heard that it was said, 'Do not commit adultery.'28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Hmm... Lust = Adultery. It is lust that causes us to want to have sex anyway, So if it's your wife your lusting after, then maybe stopping would be a good idea ;)
Although, it doesn;t exactly say in words "do not have premarital sex", but I guess that's what he's trying to get across too.

[Susan]

The Bible's condemnations of immoral sexuality, however, have not changed. They apply to us.

Premarital sex is wrong and by definition immoral, and marriage does not mean that *everything our sick little fleshly minds can think of* is necessarily allowable.

It is best to refrain from anything in which you lose self-control. Sex is by definition giving yourself over to drives and passions which will destroy your life if left unchecked.

:sick: :sick: :sick: :sick:

[Andrew]

and marriage does not mean that *everything our sick little fleshly minds can think of* is necessarily allowable

oh no susan,

r u going to start telling us again that sex within marriage is strictly only for procreation? ie no lingerie, no kinky sex, no fun.... :0

[MizDoulos]

Before this discussion gets out of hand, let's stick to the topic and refrain from making any comments that might elicit disparaging remarks.

Thank you.

[JillLars]

I think I will just chime in here with my 2 cents.

First of all, fornication has 2 parts to it...
1. Sexual acts between unmarried people
2. Lustful, self-serving sexual acts between unmarried people

That's the current definition anyways. It could have meant something different during Jesus's time. So, here is my interpretation of what the bible says about sex before marriage.

The bible says that a man will leave his parents and cleave to his wife and they shall become one.

I think that this means a man leaves his parents (obviously) chooses a woman, sleeps with her, they are ONE and she is his wife.

I think that after you sleep with that one person they are the person you are supposed to be with, as the bible says if a man lies with a woman they should be betrothed. If you sleep with someone else you are committing adultery. I think that this is why paul speaks so strongly about "becoming one" with a harlot, I think that means you need to be careful who you sleep with because God will hold you accountable, and every time you sleep with someone after that you are going against his commandments.

I agree that a couple should get married because they shouldn't be afraid to call each other husband and wife. If they love each other then eventually they should get married. I have premarital sex with my boyfriend, I passed up many oppurtunities to have sex with other guys, so it isn't like I just hopped in the sack with the first one who came along. I love my boyfriend and he loves me, and I am confident that God knows that, he also knows of our intentions to get married as soon as we're done with college. Hope that makes sense.

[Andrew]

JillLars,

the Bible never says its okay to have sex b4 marriage, no matter how much both of you love each other and intend to get married. And God forbids this simply becos its for your own good, both you and your boyfriend.

[Susan]

Sex before marriage is a sin.

And *weird* practices within marriage are also sin or VERY close to it, IMHO.

(edited to remove squawking and wing flapping noises.)

[JillLars]

The bible also doesn't say that it isn't ok to have sex before marriage with someone you love and intend to have a public ceramony with. Nowhere in the bible does it say that a marriage certificate is required to be married in God's eyes. The bible speaks out against fornication, but sex between two loving people who are not acting out of lust, or for self satisfaction, cannot be considered fornication. The bible does in fact suggest that once you sleep with a person and "become one" with them, you are married in God's eyes. Regardless of whether or not you have a marriage certificate. This is why God cautions us to be careful who we sleep with cause once you make that choice, you're with that person for life in God's eyes. That's why God says not to fornicate (have lustful sex with someone for the purpose of self satisfaction) and not to have sex with a harlot.

[Andrew]

Nowhere in the bible does it say that a marriage certificate is required to be married in God's eyes.

therein lies a contradiction. marriage is something God instituted right from the beginning. You said "in God's eyes". exactly that's the point. marriage is only valid (the Biblical way) when you do in front of God ie thru a church pastor. That's why couples who are serious abt marriage b4 God do it properly in a church. yes agreed its not the paper/cert that counts but nonetheless you also have to fulfill the laws of the state and the Bible does tell us to submit to the governing authorities. also, the pastor wld require you to have the cert to -- the whole point being everything is done properly and with honour.

The bible speaks out against fornication, but sex between two loving people who are not acting out of lust, or for self satisfaction, cannot be considered fornication. The bible does in fact suggest that once you sleep with a person and "become one" with them, you are married in God's eyes.

you are obviously twisting scripture to accomodate your lifestyle of sex b4 marriage.

"fornicate" as described by a secular Longman Dict of Contemporary English states:

"law or bibl to have sexual relations with someone to whom one is not married."

you are also very naive to think that lust is not involved when you have sex with your boyfriend. Ask any man that. If you tell me that your boyfriend has never lusted after you when he has sex with you is totally unbelievable. Ask him yourself or ask any man here.

[JillLars]

I am not saying that lust is not involved in the sex at all, there must be some lust for the act of sex to even take place. I am pointing out that when I have sex with my boyfriend it isn't the same as seeing a prostitute simply to satisfy my own needs, it isn't based only on lust.

The scripture says, if you sleep with someone, you are to be married to them. So, yes I agree that a formal marriage should take place, but I believe the reason for this is that once you sleep with someone, you are married to them in God's eyes, and must fulfill the requirements of the state after that. So, if that's twisting the scripture then I'm sorry, but if you sleep with someone you are married to them, sleeping with anyone else after that would be committing adultery. Personally, I don't see the harm in my boyfriend and I having sex before we get married. We love each other and will be married about 2 years from now. If you can tell me who we're hurting, with an argument other than "God says its wrong" then let me know. Cause the "God says its wrong" part doesn't hold up, God doesn't say its wrong to have sex with someone that you love, cherish, and will spend the rest of your life with. He warns to be careful who you have sex with because after you have sex the "love, cherish, and spend the rest of your life with" part is gonna be expected.

[Andrew]

JillLars,

but if you sleep with someone you are married to them, sleeping with anyone else after that would be committing adultery.

you are contradictiing yourself again. if you believe that by sleeping with someone you love constitutes marriage already in God's eyes, then why bother to get married in church, sign the papers etc? God brought Eve to Adam. God married them. Adam did not sleep with Eve first before God brought Eve to Adam.

Personally, I don't see the harm in my boyfriend and I having sex before we get married. We love each other and will be married about 2 years from now.

The are countless "loving" couples who break up b4 marriage. My ex-colleague got herself pregnant, assumed the guy wld marry her but it never happened. another friend got pregnant, and the guy left. Until he proposes to you and walks you down the ailse in God eyes, there is no guarantee he will marry you. 2 years is a long time. dont be so naive.

If you insist on continuing to live in sin by having sexual relations with your bf, and worse, saying that God says its ok, I hope you will at least have the sense to use contraception. Men can change when the responsibility of a baby comes into the picture.

I am not condemning you. for as long as you are a believer in Christ and Jesus is your Lord, there is now no condemnation. But what you are doing is wrong and not supported by scripture.

And I have already showed you that fornication is having sex outside marriage. and you know the Bible is against fornication.

I believe your heart already knows its wrong. so this will be my final post.

[JillLars]

The bible states very clearly that once you sleep with someone you are to be married to them. What reason would there be for this other than the fact that in God's eyes you have already become one. If you already make the step of becoming one, God expects you to follow through and go by the laws of the country, culture, ect. If a couple fails to do that then I believe they will have to take it up with God. I understand that until you have walked down that aisle you are not "married" but can you honestly say that you're gaurunteed that person won't leave you after you've been formally married. The answer is NO, my parents have been married for 20 years, and they're getting a divorce right now. That is also something they will have to take up with God, I believe if I leave my boyfriend, or he leaves me we'll have to take that up with God just like if we were getting a divorce. As I have stated before, once you become one with a person they are supposed to be your mate for life, sleeping with someone else would be committing adultery. That's why I think that the bible says to be careful who you sleep with, cause once you do, you're stuck with them.

So, lets not be so naive as to think that loving couples after marriage don't break up.

Next, once again, fornication is not only sex outside of marriage, it is self-serving, lust based (not in a loving relationship) sex outside of marriage.

[Vladimir]

[B]7th March 2003 at 10:01 AM JillLars said this in Post #32 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=696797#post696797)

We love each other and will be married about 2 years from now.


I wouldn't agree with you at that. Apostle Jacob clearly states, that we can not divine what will happen with us tommorow. And 2 years is much longer...

[Vladimir]

[B]7th March 2003 at 10:01 AM JillLars said this in Post #32 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=696797#post696797)

We love each other and will be married about 2 years from now.


I wouldn't agree with you at that. Apostle Jacob clearly states, that we can not divine what will happen with us tommorow. And 2 years is much longer...

[Andrew]

Who is Apostle Jacob?