Does God always heal? [Archive]

Blade

25th January 2003, 05:20 AM

 "Our key point of difference" I believe this is what it's about.

God never changes. What he did then he will do now. Strange is it not that the bible says "God (Jesus) never changes" and when he was here everyone that came to him got healed. Yet now, today God has changed and if we come to him he might let satan give you sickness or might not. God forbid...Oh poor Job, read what happen to him in the end. You never hear that. He got healed and had twice as much as he had before. Gee it looks like the two might go hand in hand.

Side note: Paul and the thorn in the flesh. The 'messenger" greek 'angelos translated "angel 179 times and messenger 7 times. It is never translated "desease or physical infirmity and never means any such thing. I believe Paul's thron must me understood in the same sense as Nu 33:55, Eze 28:24; HO 2:6 where the same Greek: skolops thron. And Buffet: greek "kolaphizo" to cuff or to box on the ear, Mt 26:67, Mk 1465; ICo4:11, 2CO 12:7, 1PE 2:20.

 

dignitized

25th January 2003, 12:16 PM

equip? YIKES Hank Hanagraff is the KING of self promotion! He mentions himself more on his show than the Lord. :(

MizDoulos

25th January 2003, 01:17 PM

Reminder:&nbsp&nbspPlease do keep on topic and contribute positively to the discussion. You may disagree with the original thought or subject, but do not let the thread deteriorate by putting down another person, group, or denomination. This causes disharmony.

Thank you.

SUNSTONE

25th January 2003, 02:33 PM

I am going to put you down, MizDoulos! :mad:

BECAUSE, I have more blessings than you do!! :P ......or atleast I think I do. :scratch:

SUNSTONE

25th January 2003, 02:35 PM

YES I DO! :clap: TWICE AS MANY. :P

Isn't this the cutest face --> :mad:

SUNSTONE

25th January 2003, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by Apologist
Since this was discussed in another post I thought I would post a link to a well written piece on this subject. It is a bit long but is very good I think.

http://www.equip.org/free/DH018.htm

God Bless

Wether God always heals, should have nothing to do with your attitude for praying for a healing.
If God has a reason, let Him tell you. Until He does, you are to stick in there and fight!

(Let your requests be made known to God, and the peace that surpasses all understanding, shall rule in your hearts, AND IN YOUR MIND.)

MizDoulos

25th January 2003, 11:27 PM

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
I am going to put you down, MizDoulos! :mad:

BECAUSE, I have more blessings than you do!! :P ......or atleast I think I do. :scratch:

You not only have more blessing points, but you also have more warnings than I!!!;)

Now back to the topic at hand . . .

fragmentsofdreams

26th January 2003, 02:11 AM

God will do nothing that makes you less dependent on Him. If healing you will cause you to forget about how much you need Him, He won't heal you.

Blade

26th January 2003, 03:38 AM

Originally posted by fragmentsofdreams
God will do nothing that makes you less dependent on Him. If healing you will cause you to forget about how much you need Him, He won't heal you.

How do you come up with that? :confused:

Andrew

26th January 2003, 11:09 AM

Just as God has provided salvation in the atoning work of Christ,
God has also provided healing in the atoning work of Christ.

so, the answer to the question does God always heal is the same as
does God always save?

It all depends on whether the person can believe and act in faith on scriptures like these, until the manifestation in the natural comes:

Ex 15:26 ... for I AM {present tense} the LORD that healeth thee.
Ps 103:3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;
Mk 11:24 24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

fragmentsofdreams

26th January 2003, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Blade
How do you come up with that? :confused:

The first sentence comes from St. Francis de Sales. We are at our best when we depend totallly on God, so why would he heal us physically in those times when it would cause us to drift away spiritually?

Jesus tells us to cut off our right hand if it causes us to sin. If we wished for our hand to be healed, we would first need to ask God to deliver us from the sin that caused us to cut it off in the first place. Otherwise, we would back where we began.

Blade

26th January 2003, 02:18 PM

Thanks Ryan. :D

SpiritPsalmist

26th January 2003, 02:20 PM

And to add to what Andrew said,

Does God always heal? Yes!

Do we always manifest that healing? No!

fragmentsofdreams

26th January 2003, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by Blade
Thanks Ryan. :D

The idea was a shock to me when I first heard it, too.

Andrew

26th January 2003, 09:10 PM

Evee i think you mean the "sin that is not unto death."?
that's in 1 John 5:16

We are at our best when we depend totallly on God, so why would he heal us physically in those times when it would cause us to drift away spiritually?

OTH, sickness also causes one to drift away from God. esp when they think God wants them that way ie anger, bitterness towards God. sometimes the husband who has lost his wife to cancer may also become disillusioned with God.

So God wld want to heal plain an dsimple -- so that our joy may be full!

fragmentsofdreams

26th January 2003, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by Andrew
Evee i think you mean the "sin that is not unto death."?
that's in 1 John 5:16

OTH, sickness also causes one to drift away from God. esp when they think God wants them that way ie anger, bitterness towards God. sometimes the husband who has lost his wife to cancer may also become disillusioned with God.

So God wld want to heal plain an dsimple -- so that our joy may be full!

People react to sickness in different ways. Sometimes sickness reminds us of how much we need God. When one is healthy, it can be easy to forget about God. God will act in the way that is best for us.

happy2besaved

26th January 2003, 10:04 PM

Yes, that's so true! :) Sometimes we tend to foget about how much we need the Lord and He justs reminds us....but He will ALWAYS deliver you from what you are going through...He's so wonderful!:) Just keep the faith and remember faith comes by hearing!

Live4Jesus

26th January 2003, 10:24 PM

When I was saved I literally felt His (Jesus') hands move right through me... I had had a few pretty major aches and pains that had bothered me for close to 15 years... gone in an instant...

I have heard that when God forgives, he also heals... likewise it's important for you to forgive others as well...

Andrew

26th January 2003, 11:33 PM

I have heard that when God forgives, he also heals... likewise it's important for you to forgive others as well...

that's becos healing is part of the atoning work of Christ. :)

actually, any blessing is possible only becos of the atoning work of Christ. there is no other way to 'merit' blessing except thru the work of Christ.

Blade

27th January 2003, 02:15 AM

You know I believe God has nothing to do with sickness and always wants help, heal anything good. Yet there can be SO many things in our lives that can stop God. Not wanting to forgive is just one. I don't get stuck on gifts, I believe in them all but we all know the best is JESUS.

dignitized

27th January 2003, 02:53 PM

am I the only one who remembers Job?

SpiritPsalmist

27th January 2003, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Br. Max
am I the only one who remembers Job?

No Bro Max, you are not the only one who remembers Job.  We, and me personally has expounded on the issue of Job so many times, I really don't care to go over it again.

Job was rich and health and became poor and sick, but got over it when he repented. Then, he had more than what he started out with.  AND That's the end of the story.

SpiritPsalmist

27th January 2003, 08:19 PM

Hey,

I'm throwing some humor into the middle of this discussion: it's on the subject. :D  :D

Cowboy Poetry

Jake, the rancher went one day, to fix a distant fence.
The wind was cold and gusty; the clouds rolled gray and dense.

As he pounded the last staples in and gathered tools to go,
The temperature had fallen; the wind and snow began to blow.

When he finally reached his pickup, he felt a heavy heart.
From the sound of that ignition, he knew it wouldn't start.

So Jake did what most of us would do, had we been there.
He humbly bowed his balding head and sent aloft a prayer.

As he turned the key for one last time, he softly cursed his luck.
They found him three days later, frozen stiff in that old truck.

Now Jake had been around in life and done his share of roaming.
But when he saw Heaven, he was shocked - it looked just like Wyoming!

Of all the saints in Heaven, his favorite was St. Peter.
(Now, this line ain't needed but it helps with rhyme and meter)

So they sat and talked a minute or two, or maybe it was three.
Nobody was keeping score -- in Heaven time is free.

"I've always heard," Jake said to Pete, "that God will answer prayer,
But one time I asked for help, well, he just plain wasn't there."

"Does God answer prayers of some, and ignore the prayers of others?
That don't seem exactly square -- I know all men are brothers."

"Or does he randomly reply, without good rhyme or reason?
Maybe, it's the time of day, the weather or the season."

"Now I ain't trying to act smart, it's just the way I feel.
And I was wondering, could you tell me -- what the heck's the deal?!"

Peter listened very patiently and when Jake was done,
There were smiles of recognition, and he said, "So, you're the one!!"

"That day your truck, it wouldn't start, and you sent your prayer a flying,
You gave us all a real bad time, with hundreds of us all trying."

"A thousand angels rushed, to check the status of your file,
But you know, Jake, we hadn't heard from you, in quite a long while."

"And though all prayers are answered, and God ain't got no quota,
He didn't recognize your voice, and started a truck in Minnesota."

Live4Jesus

28th January 2003, 12:38 AM

One time I had a really bad headache... I layed down and I kept just thinking about God, about the awesome love of God... I tried to imagine me in His arms because I know from past experience that when I have been 'near' Him I have felt tremendous... wonderful... free... and anyway that one time as I lay there doing that.... my headache disappeared instantly... and it was a real bad one I had had it a couple days maybe... a migraine...

kind of after that, even though the Holy Spirit is here now and then i'll still get a headache, not often but it happens... maybe it's something i do I don't know... but I always remember that, ... get me into HIS real full presence and pain ceases.... the love maybe... you have to call out in love least I do...

dignitized

28th January 2003, 01:02 AM

whao - got over it when he repented? dude - Job had nothing to repent of. God allowed Job to be sick to test him and see if he would still praise him even when things go to crud. I HATE when people give teh devil glory by saying sickness if from the devil. Lets not forget that the devil cannot do to you anything except God allows him to do it.

Live4Jesus

28th January 2003, 01:09 AM

Originally posted by Br. Max
whao - got over it when he repented? dude - Job had nothing to repent of. God allowed Job to be sick to test him and see if he would still praise him even when things go to crud. I HATE when people give teh devil glory by saying sickness if from the devil. Lets not forget that the devil cannot do to you anything except God allows him to do it.

I would agree with that... ...

SpiritPsalmist

28th January 2003, 01:17 PM

Live4Jesus

28th January 2003, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by Quaffer
God does not agree.  Chapters 38 -41.  And neither does Job in Chapter 42:3-6

Well I'm not really sure how you are reading those passages, beacuse i don't see they support satan as having anything that God did not first give him...

As a big for instance and staying with Job, it was God himself who allowed satan to test Job in the very first place:

--
Job 1:12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.
--

And likewise, when God decided satan should be finished, satan was finished, not vice versa.

dignitized

28th January 2003, 10:51 PM

evee: You may wish to reread the book then. GOD is bragging on Job to the devil. Job is told by his "friends" that the reason why he is being inflicted was because of his sin. Job remined faithful and praided God all through his trials and because of that, in the end, God returned to Job everything the deivl took from him plus more. :)

Andrew

28th January 2003, 10:51 PM

I HATE when people give teh devil glory by saying sickness if from the devil. Lets not forget that the devil cannot do to you anything except God allows him to do it.

if sickness is not from the devil -- directly or indirectly -- who do you think it comes from, the Father of Lights and good gifts? Thy will be done on earth AS IT IS in heaven. If sickness comes from God, heaven must be full of sick folks! *LOL

I HATE IT when people give the "glory" of sickness to God instead of the devil. oh please! The devil comes to steal kill and destroy! which part of that do they not understnd????

fragmentsofdreams

28th January 2003, 11:23 PM

The devil has no power which God has not allowed him to have. Otherwise, the devil would be a god.

Outspoken

28th January 2003, 11:45 PM

You need to rethink what healing is..think outside of the "box". Sometimes healing is going home to see God...As the song goes..."IN the ulimate healing we will be home free."

Andrew

29th January 2003, 01:47 AM

Otherwise, the devil would be a god.

but he is...

2Co 4:4 -- In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Yes Death is the ultimate healing

Goodness gracious! God gives the sick person His enemy as his healing? Someting that is God's enemy and that God wants to destroy is supposed to be our gift of healing??? That's ridiculously sick!

1 Corinthians 15:26
The last enemy to be destroyed is death.

Ya still think that God wants some of his children sick to teach them some lesson like faith or patience? then consider these carefully:

* Faith is a grace gift from God (Ephesians 2:8). We can't "earn" it by going through sicknesses and sufferings. Faith comes by hearing repeatedly the words of Christ (Romans 10:17), not by being more and more sick.

* Faithfulness, long-suffering and patience are fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22), not fruit of our sufferings and illnesses. The more we walk in the Spirit and in the revelation of God's Word -- not in sickness -- the more fruit we bear.

* If sickness is a lesson from God, then the Christian who has been sick for many years is obviously a slow learner. And instead of praying for his healing, we should be telling him: "Better buck-up bro, or you're not gonna make it!"

* And if the sick Christian dies eventually, it would mean that he failed to learn God's lesson. And what lesson was so important that it cost him his health, his savings, his marriage and, eventually, his life? What lesson was so important that it made a child fatherless or a wife without a husband? What lesson was so important that it brought chaos, worry, fear, sorrow and mourning to his loved ones? Does God need to resort to all that?

* Many Christians who argue that it is God's will for them to be sick still see the doctor, rest and take medication, contradicting God's "will" for them. This is because in their heart, they actually long to be healthy. Their spirit is actually crying out for healing, because that is God's truth and will for them.

* Why pray for the sick (Matthew 10:8, Mark 16:18, James 5:14-16)? How do we know we are not contradicting God's will in each case?

* If the temple of God under the Old Covenant was not decrepit, why should His New Covenant temple, which is our bodies (1 Corinthians 3:16,17, 1 Corinthians 6:19, 2 Corinthians 6:16), be weak and sickly?

* 1 Corinthians 3:17 says that "If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are". Now, would God contradict himself by putting leprosy on you? Or a cancer that eats away your internal organs?

* If Christ is the head of the body of the church, which is us (Ephesians 1:22, Ephesians 5:23, Colossians 1:18), why would He want His "arms" and "legs" or us to be diseased and ineffective?

* Jesus said that "he that hath seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9-11). If we want to know what God is like, we look at Jesus. Jesus never gave sickness or death to anyone. Of the 35 miracles He performed, 23 (or two-thirds) were healings and three, raising the dead. So, if God chastens with sicknesses and deaths, why is this facet of God not reflected in Jesus' earthly ministry? Did Jesus miss out something?

* Christians are always talking about "following" Jesus or being like Him. Well, Jesus went about healing the sick (Matthew 4:23, Matthew 9:35, Acts 10:38). So, Christians ought to be out there healing the sick. But how can they have the faith to do that if they also believe that God authors sickness? There will be confusion.

* 1 John 4:17 says that "as he is [now], so are we in this world [this life]". Today, our glorified Lord is sitting at the right hand of the Father -- without sickness. So, why would God contradict His own Word by making many of us sick? How can "so are we" be true if God wants many of us sick?

* If sickness is sometimes God's will, then when we pray "thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven" (Luke 11:2), we are actually saying that there is a lot of sickness in heaven.

* How can one of the names of God be Jehovah Rapha -- "I am the LORD that healeth thee" (Exodus 15:26) -- if He is also "the Lord who makes you sick"?

* Why would God say in Proverbs 4:22 that His words are "life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh" if He wanted many of us to be sick? If this were true, then Christians who believe that God is making them sick should not read the Bible.

* How can the Psalmist say this if our Lord: "who...heals all your diseases" (Psalm 103:3) if God does not want to heal some of our sicknesses?

if you're stumped, just answer the last one!

SpiritPsalmist

29th January 2003, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by Br. Max
evee: You may wish to reread the book then. GOD is bragging on Job to the devil. Job is told by his "friends" that the reason why he is being inflicted was because of his sin. Job remined faithful and praided God all through his trials and because of that, in the end, God returned to Job everything the deivl took from him plus more. :)

Through the years we've been told that God is bragging but actually, I believe He's merely pointing out that the hedge that was around Job is no longer there. 

Job did not remain faithful in his speaking.  He did not curse God but he quite haughty with Him.  God Himself showed up and correcte Job on his loose tongue, chapters 38-41.  In 42:3 Job says "Therefore I now see I have rashly uttered what I did not understand" (Amplified) 

Ps 91:1 says, "He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall remain stabel and fixed under the shadow of the Almighty, Whose power no foe can withstand."

God cannot deny Himself.  He keeps His promises.  He does not have a daisy in His hand where he pulls one at a time saying, today I keep my promise, today I don't keep my promise, today I keep my promise, today I don't keep my promise.

If we remain in His shadow we are protected.  If we don't then we walk out from under that protection. . .Job may have been considered righteous, according to other men of that day, but he still walked out from under God's protection.  And God merely pointed it out to the enemy so that Job would repent and again find protection which comes with repentence.

Blade

29th January 2003, 05:17 PM

Not to get to deep. Satan caused man to rebel against God and break His law, incurring the death penalty. Man, being under the sentence of death, could not pay his own death penalty and also live again to enjoy freedom from sin and carry out the eternal purpose for which he was created. To carry out the eternal plan he had to be redeemed and brought back into full reconciliation with God in order to fulfill the holy and righteous demands of the law and holiness of God. God undertook redemption work for man by seending Jesus to die for him and resurrect him from the dead so that the original plan could be realized.

Satan had kidnapped man and made him a slave to sin and a subject of eternal death. He held a pseudo sovereignty over humanity and that for ransom on the principle of possession and consent of responsible agent of government by consent of the governed( a little law ). This was the only principle of government that a holy God could establish with the wages of sin as death and eternal life as a reward for obedience. Satan's rights are recognized in Scriptrue. He is the god and prince of the world who had the power of death and hell before his defeat by atonement. God decided that through the atonement and the subistitution of an innocent victim to take the place of the guilty kidnapped race He would free it from Satan, thus legally and forcefully evicting him, restoring man's dominion so as to carry on the eternal purpose. The penalty had to be paid for man to go free. If sinful man had paid the penalty, he would remain forever dead. If man was to become reconciled to God again and be restored to his original postion, an innocent and a willing substitute had to be found to take his place who could fully meet the demands of the law and represent both god and man. He had to be more than man to be able to live again after the penalty was paid. The only solution was for God to become man and  pay the penalty for letting man go free. This way God could be free from all accusations of injustice in forcing another to do what he Himself would not do, and His holy law, justice, and form of government would be magified before all creation in all eternity.

When Satan put to death the innocent, sinless Christ, the court of heave cancelled all his claims, rights, and pseudo-sovereignty over his victims. Now he holds a false authority over him. His chief method now is intimidation. All who assert their legal, redemptive, blood-bought and divine rights and resist him can be free from sin, sickness, and satanic powers. All believers are now representatives and officers of God's law. Satan is now only the accuser of the brethren and has no legal claim on them. The law must still be upheld and god cannot excuse any sin.

No human court can forgive and justify any man who continues to commit crimes. So it is with the Court of Heaven. The supreme Judge is sworn to uphold the demands of the law in every case. Jesus Christ is their defense attorney.

I just want some to see that satan did have rights and what or why God did what.

Gee after looking back I guess we have redemption.

his-girl

29th January 2003, 07:08 PM

No, God does not always heal.

Blade

29th January 2003, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by fragmentsofdreams
The devil has no power which God has not allowed him to have. Otherwise, the devil would be a god.

 Hay fragmentsofdreams, this has nothing to do with your post. I just liked your "Not stupied Just Advanced, and it made me remember a preacher who use to always say how people called him weird because he was a christian. And he started to say it. Then one day the lord told him "your normal their weird". Now thats what he said :)

Theresa

30th January 2003, 12:21 AM

I wanted to post this because I think it's wise and might help somebody someday. I'm holding a white flag in case you can't see from there, see, I'm waving it!!!!

 

"Yet a better world awaits the righteous and the sincerely repentant.  To live a good life is not to live free of troubles, but to live free of needless worry.  Catastrophes happen to Christians, just as good thing seem to happen to wicked people.  Yet, for a practicing Christian, even the disasters are good; because they serve to purify us of our attachments to this world.  Only when we go bankrupt, perhaps, will we cease to worry about money.  Only when we're abandoned by our friends, will we stop trying to impress them.  When the money's gone, we can fall back on the thing that nobody can take away: our God.  When our friends don't return our calls, we can, at last, turn to the changeless Friend-Whom we cannot impress, because He knows us thoroughly."  [of course you can apply that to sickness as well] (The Lamb's Supper: Scott Hahn  pg112)

 

Peace, Love, Health

Theresa

Andrew

30th January 2003, 12:59 AM

Psalm 103:

2 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits:
3 Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth ALL thy diseases;
4 Who redeemeth thy life from destruction;

Either you believe Psalm 103 v3,4 or you dont. And if you dont, then you have forgotten ALL his benefits!

dignitized

30th January 2003, 11:59 AM

Andrew

30th January 2003, 11:01 PM

Andrew: to whom and under what circumstances was that verse written? Was it written to all men? was it written to Israel? was it written to the remnant? What did they do to acquire that healing? There is great value to knowing the context of a verse. In this case David was making a personal confession. He is speaking to himself. He is reminding himself that God has always provided for him in all his trials and all his circumstances.

oh come on, of cse it is written to us! read the part "who forgives all our sins" that comes b4 it. If you say its not for us, then neither is forgiveness of sins, and neither are these other verses in Psalm 103 for us today:

8 The LORD is merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and plenteous in mercy.
11 For as the heaven is high above the earth, so great is his mercy toward them that fear him.
12 As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us.

so, you'd have to come up with a better excuse than that :)

Allow me to point you to an example of suffering and affliction in the scriptures. Paul speaks of carrying the marks of the passion in his flesh. In Greek the word for marks used is Stigmata - the wounds of the passion of Our Lord. Many Saints, RC and otherwise have exhibited these wounds through out history. The most famous of which was St Francis of Assisi. Other examples include: Theresa Newman, Lukardis of Oberweimer, Catherine of Siena, Heather Woods, Ethel Chapman, and Padre Pio. These people are all well known for their piety and their faith. Can you explain how they exhibited the wounds of the passion of our Lord with out God causing them?

It doesnt matter how many sad stories you give me on Christians who have suffered sickness. Experiences in no way negates the atoning work of Christ -- that he bore our sicknesses and pains too.

We walk by faith, not by what we see happening around us. And again, you are confusing faithfulness with faith to move mountains. You can be the most faithful Christian in your church but know next to nothing about healing scriptures -- so how can there be faith to get healed? that's the difference. even if the person knows abt healing and prays with faith and still dies, it does not in any way negate Psalm 103 or any other healing scripture. Let God be true and every man a liar.

Outspoken

31st January 2003, 12:10 AM

"Experiences in no way negates the atoning work of Christ"

totally agreed! BUT this doesn't mean that God doesn't allow and even in some cases cause sickness.

"you are confusing faithfulness with faith to move mountains."

Actaully in his examples they are quite the same thing.

Julie

31st January 2003, 01:00 AM

Does God always heal? (http://www.christianforums.com/threads/33497.html)

I would say no, not always.

2 Corinthians 12

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

 
8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

11 I am become a fool in glorying; ye have compelled me: for I ought to have been commended of you: for in nothing am I behind the very chiefest apostles, though I be nothing.

12 Truly the signs of an apostle were wrought among you in all patience, in signs, and wonders, and mighty deeds.

Warrior FC

31st January 2003, 01:22 AM

Your FAITH will make you whole!

If you don't believe that God always heals, then you will not always recieve healing....

MATTHEW 9:35
And Jesus was going about all the cities and the vilages, teaching in their synagogues, and proclaiming the gospel of the kingdom and HEALING EVERY KIND OF DISEASE AND EVERY KIND OF SICKNESS.

Now read MATTHEW 10:1... again Jesus gave the authority to the apostles as well to HEAL EVERY KIND OF DISEASE AND EVERY KIND OF SICKNESS.

We, just as Jesus and the apostles had in the begining, have been given the authority over all sickness and disease. It's up to us to recieve that and walk in that authority... God has already given it to us!

He said these signs shall follow THOSE WHO BELIEVE, and one of the signs was to lay hands on the sick AND THEY WILL BE HEALED!

I personally have been healed by God from everything that has come upon me! I speak against sickness and disease (THE POWER OF LIFE AND DEATH IS IN THE TONGUE), I allow the elders of the church I attend to lay hands on me when I'm sick and annoint and pray for me, and try and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit when I need healing...

I guess I'm just dumb enough to BELIEVE that God will ALWAYS HEAL ME!.. And so far... HE HAS!

Julie

31st January 2003, 01:26 AM

You must be a better Christian than Paul then.

Andrew

31st January 2003, 01:47 AM

2 Corinthians 12

7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

this is a real old worn out argument that holds no water. the thorn is as the verse itself states, an angel of Satan, ie a personality thing, not a sickness.

Outspoken

31st January 2003, 01:55 AM

"I guess I'm just dumb enough to BELIEVE that God will ALWAYS HEAL ME!.. And so far... HE HAS!"

I totally disagree. God allows sickness to persist sometimes. He did in the OT, in the NT and he does now. He doesn't change. He does it for our spiritual betterment. Your body isn't eternal, your spirit is. Which one do you wanna refine? Andrew yes, the argument is old and its plain to see that the thorn was a physical alliment.

Julie

31st January 2003, 02:03 AM

Originally posted by Andrew
this is a real old worn out argument that holds no water. the thorn is as the verse itself states, an angel of Satan, ie a personality thing, not a sickness.

 

It was his eyesight Andy, his eyesight.

 I totally disagree. God allows sickness to persist sometimes. He did in the OT, in the NT and he does now. He doesn't change. He does it for our spiritual betterment. Your body isn't eternal, your spirit is. Which one do you wanna refine? Andrew yes, the argument is old and its plain to see that the thorn was a physical alliment.Thats the truth!

pcmixoye

31st January 2003, 09:04 AM

Concerning the "thorn" of 2 Cor. 12:
the Greek word is skolops, it refers to a pointed stake, on which people were impaled. gruesome, huh. Paul was speaking about a bodily affliction, one that pierced him through body, soul, and spirit, physical ill-treatment or a physical disability is the idea. Something that hampers his work, Bid used to keep him from arrogance and to keep his focus on Jesus, the true source of his power.

The next thought needs to be balanced with other scriptures: The Greek grammer seems (in my limited understanding) to imply that the "thorn" was given through the act of revelation. that is it came part and parcel along with the tremendous revelation Paul recieved from God. just remember what Peter said, some of the things that Paul said and wrote are hard to understand. although the Holy Spirit can be quite helpful if we read the scriptures ALL the scriptures.
btw it does'nt say what it was,eyesight, what not, so we can't guess, and as far as faith = faithfullness Dietrich Bonnhoeffer said it best. "He who believes obeys and he who obeys believes."  It takes both to effect a healing.

God Bless Pete

dignitized

31st January 2003, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by Warrior FC
[B]Your FAITH will make you whole!

If you don't believe that God always heals, then you will not always recieve healing....   As if we can WORK up the type of faith that pleases god :sigh:

THIS is the type of reasoning that destroys people - destroys the faith of the weak and leads to false teachings.

YES God heals - yes ALL healing comes from God weather through a man or through a miracle.  BUT when you start saying - oh well if you didn't "get healed" you didn't have enough faith is false teaching.  WE ALL have to DIE my friend.  It is part of the HUMAN condition.  Disease is one of the ways that that comes to pass.  You say to a cancer patient that if he has enough faith God will heal him - yet all the while GOD is saying its time for you to come home to me.

Mephster

31st January 2003, 02:03 PM

God's will be done, Max?

Blade

31st January 2003, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Br. Max
  As if we can WORK up the type of faith that pleases god :sigh:

THIS is the type of reasoning that destroys people - destroys the faith of the weak and leads to false teachings.

YES God heals - yes ALL healing comes from God weather through a man or through a miracle.  BUT when you start saying - oh well if you didn't "get healed" you didn't have enough faith is false teaching.  WE ALL have to DIE my friend.  It is part of the HUMAN condition.  Disease is one of the ways that that comes to pass.  You say to a cancer patient that if he has enough faith God will heal him - yet all the while GOD is saying its time for you to come home to me.

Pleases God? Well the word says "with out faith it is impossible to please God." There is no "TYPE FAITH" here just faith. Go back (not that you did'nt ) and read the 4 books, All the times Jesus healed. You will find him saying ALOT "your faith made you whole". You have to keep your faith up all the time. You can NEVER stop exercising your faith. Cancer works 24 hours a day, it never sleeps just keeps working. Most people wait untill somthing bad happens and then try to believe. You can not look at someone else and say "see what about them?" because you and I have no idea what they believe and say when there alone with God. I have and had a family member who had cancer and all the time he would say God is gona heal him. Yet when I listened to him down the road (weeks later) he keep saying God was never gona heal him. What does the bible say about not believeing? Let not that man think he will receive anything from God. He was like a ship up and down up and down. Yet his friends never heard him say God would not heal him all they heard was "Gods gona heal me". There could be so many things in a persons life that can stop God from answering. How about unforogivness? Jesus said if you don't for give how can your father for give you. So many things. Me I always ask a person that is sick "what can you believe God can to for you". Now this is just one small example. I can give you hundreds of examples that God has done for me, does it make me better? more holy? NO. I believe the word. If he said it he will do it.

Mephster

31st January 2003, 02:21 PM

Faith, being a grace, is distributed by God. As is healing. Who is to say what God will or will not do? If God chooses to let someone suffer who can accuse God of doing wrong? In all things, God's will is to be done. Healing has nothing to do with degrees of faith. One should have faith that God's will be done, and beyond that, maintain Christian devoutness whatever the outcome.

Blade

31st January 2003, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Julie
You must be a better Christian than Paul then.

Did you know (messenger) Greek:"angelos" translated "angel" 179 times and "messenger" 7 times. It is never translated "disease" or "physical infirmity" and never means any such thing. The simple explanation of the thorn in the flesh is that an angel of Satan, one of the spirit beings which fell with him, followed Paul and buffeted him when he was tempted to become exalted. Paul lists in 2Co 11:23-27 some of the things that this angel caused him to go through to keep him humble. There is not a disease in the whole list. Paul's thron must be understood in the same sense as Nu 33:55; Eze 28:24; Ho 2:6 where the same Greek word "skolops" thron is found. Buffet greek:"kolaphizo" to cuff; to box on the ear.

Just trying to help :)

SpiritPsalmist

31st January 2003, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by Blade
Pleases God? Well the word says "with out faith it is impossible to please God." There is no "TYPE FAITH" here just faith. Go back (not that you did'nt ) and read the 4 books, All the times Jesus healed. You will find him saying ALOT "your faith made you whole". You have to keep your faith up all the time. You can NEVER stop exercising your faith. Cancer works 24 hours a day, it never sleeps just keeps working. Most people wait untill somthing bad happens and then try to believe. You can not look at someone else and say "see what about them?" because you and I have no idea what they believe and say when there alone with God. I have and had a family member who had cancer and all the time he would say God is gona heal him. Yet when I listened to him down the road (weeks later) he keep saying God was never gona heal him. What does the bible say about not believeing? Let not that man think he will receive anything from God. He was like a ship up and down up and down. Yet his friends never heard him say God would not heal him all they heard was "Gods gona heal me". There could be so many things in a persons life that can stop God from answering. How about unforogivness? Jesus said if you don't for give how can your father for give you. So many things. Me I always ask a person that is sick "what can you believe God can to for you". Now this is just one small example. I can give you hundreds of examples that God has done for me, does it make me better? more holy? NO. I believe the word. If he said it he will do it.

I agree.  And there are things we can do to increase our faith or to destroy our faith.

We can increase it by choosing to not listen (depend) on what the world says about the problem.  If the doctor says you have cancer, you can do what your doctor advises but don't believe that he/she is the final authority on it.  God is the final authority. 

If you want to be healed you want to stand on what God says about your sickness and stay away from everyone that will tell you every horror story under the sun.  About their Aunt Suzy's, friends, sisters, daughters, best friend had cancer and they died anyway.  Believe me, the horror stories will come out of the woodwork, out of the mouths of complete strangers.

If we want to destroy faith we listen to all the tales and take on the fears the tales create.  Then we're full of fear, a spirit which God did give us and start believing that we have only 3 days to live.

If it's God's time for you to go, then it's God's time for you to go.  But no-where in scripture does it say that God chooses sickness to call His children home.  NOWHERE!

Blade

31st January 2003, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by Quaffer
I agree.  And there are things we can do to increase our faith or to destroy our faith.

We can increase it by choosing to not listen (depend) on what the world says about the problem.  If the doctor says you have cancer, you can do what your doctor advises but don't believe that he/she is the final authority on it.  God is the final authority. 

If you want to be healed you want to stand on what God says about your sickness and stay away from everyone that will tell you every horror story under the sun.  About their Aunt Suzy's, friends, sisters, daughters, best friend had cancer and they died anyway.  Believe me, the horror stories will come out of the woodwork, out of the mouths of complete strangers.

If we want to destroy faith we listen to all the tales and take on the fears the tales create.  Then we're full of fear, a spirit which God did give us and start believing that we have only 3 days to live.

If it's God's time for you to go, then it's God's time for you to go.  But no-where in scripture does it say that God chooses sickness to call His children home.  NOWHERE!

So true. Just maybe God had a reason when he said basically " keep my word in front of you all the time and don't let it depart out of your mouth." Doubt is not from God.

In Matt 15:22-27 where a woman (dog in those days, not of the Isreal) wanted Jesus to heal her daughter who had a devil. But Jesus said " I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel". But she worshipped him and said help me. He said "it is not meet (right, good, proper) to take the children's bread and to cast it to dogs." Jews were the 1st childern of the kingdom (Mt 8:12) The bread refers to the benefits that the Messiah was to bring to them, which included salvation for the body, soul and from sin, sickness, demons and satanic powers. These are family rights, legal rights, promised rights, human rights, divine rights and redemptive rights of all childern of God. Now the women acknowledged her position as undeserving and without legal covenant rights to the children's bread, yet she used the Lord's own words concerning dogs as grounds for further claim for healing. Even dogs have some rights-rights to the crumbs that the master throws away and would give to them. Jesus said "O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. What I am trying to say is Jesus came 1st for the Jews and if she would have just left she would have got nothing. If Jesus said YES to her back then when she had a right to nothing do you not think he would say yes today to you who have all of the same rights now. 

dignitized

31st January 2003, 05:49 PM

Originally posted by Blade
Pleases God? Well the word says "with out faith it is impossible to please God." There is no "TYPE FAITH" here just faith.

 

Blade there are many types of faith.  There is saving faith, honest faith, misplaced faith, faith in self, faith in the world, faith in  money . . . does faith in money please God?  nope.  To say even imply that one can come up with faith turns that "faith" into a work.  If it comes of your own efforts it is no longer a faith please to God but a faith of works.

 

The scriptures refer time and again to suffereing and affiction as being beneficial to us as individauls.  If you are not willing to suffer a little of pain and affoiction in return for the pain and death Christ suffered for us, what kind of walk with God do you have?  DO you only walk with God in the good times when things go well and you are healthy?  what happens when out of no where, after serving teh Lord faithfully for years with no shadow of doubt you come down with cancer. WHat then if God chooses - cause being God he is allowed to do that - NOT to heal you . . . what then?  WIll you curse God?  Or will you accept it as God's will?

Blade

31st January 2003, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by Br. Max
 

Blade there are many types of faith.  There is saving faith, honest faith, misplaced faith, faith in self, faith in the world, faith in  money . . . does faith in money please God?  nope.  To say even imply that one can come up with faith turns that "faith" into a work.  If it comes of your own efforts it is no longer a faith please to God but a faith of works.

 

The scriptures refer time and again to suffereing and affiction as being beneficial to us as individauls.  If you are not willing to suffer a little of pain and affoiction in return for the pain and death Christ suffered for us, what kind of walk with God do you have?  DO you only walk with God in the good times when things go well and you are healthy?  what happens when out of no where, after serving teh Lord faithfully for years with no shadow of doubt you come down with cancer. WHat then if God chooses - cause being God he is allowed to do that - NOT to heal you . . . what then?  WIll you curse God?  Or will you accept it as God's will?

Ok I see what I said. If its ok let us go back to help me :) What do you mean "As if we can WORK up the type of faith that pleases god?"
I really just wanted to say "with out faith we can not pease God." So when we have faith we are pleaseing God.

dignitized

31st January 2003, 11:04 PM

You are right that without faith we cannot please God but - what kind of faith is pleasing to God?

Live4Jesus

31st January 2003, 11:09 PM

Live4Jesus

31st January 2003, 11:26 PM

Blade don't you think God delivers faith, He works it in us? It's always been my impression, were it not for Him hanging around, even when I didn't know He was there... because without God being present the devil surely would have crashed this car aeons ago...

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Romans 12:3 - For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Blindfaith

1st February 2003, 12:28 AM

So what happens when someone isn't healed?

Does that mean that he or she, and the people that are praying for him/her, lacks faith?

I want to see the responses here.

dignitized

1st February 2003, 01:33 AM

BTW - I'll be spending Next Friday at a Miracle Service :) God willing I'll get healed :)

Stormy

1st February 2003, 01:59 AM

Originally posted by blindfaith
So what happens when someone isn't healed?

Does that mean that he or she, and the people that are praying for him/her, lacks faith?

I want to see the responses here.

I am also interested in your answer for this question.

I have another question.

What is going to hapen to your faith when God does not heal you? It is a safe bet to say that one day, you will not be healed, and you will die. Knowing this... in your final days will you turn from God, or will your faith increase as you prepare to leave this world?

Blindfaith

1st February 2003, 02:29 AM

And that's the big question, isn't it Stormy? :)

If you're not healed because God doesn't choose to heal you, do you lean more on the Lord in faith or do you turn away because you doubt your faith or the Lord?

Me?  I'd depend upon Him more.  I have no doubt about that whatsoever.  There is a fabulously spiritual woman named Joni Erickson Tada (I believe thats how you spell it), who's in a wheelchair.  She prayed and prayed to become "healed", and she's still in her wheelchair.  There are very few women who have inspired me the way she has in her faith.  The Lord is doing a mighty work through her, through her physical handicap, to be a witness of God's love, grace and mercy, and strength.

Apologist

1st February 2003, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by blindfaith
And that's the big question, isn't it Stormy? :)

If you're not healed because God doesn't choose to heal you, do you lean more on the Lord in faith or do you turn away because you doubt your faith or the Lord?

Me?  I'd depend upon Him more.  I have no doubt about that whatsoever.  There is a fabulously spiritual woman named Joni Erickson Tada (I believe thats how you spell it), who's in a wheelchair.  She prayed and prayed to become "healed", and she's still in her wheelchair.  There are very few women who have inspired me the way she has in her faith.  The Lord is doing a mighty work through her, through her physical handicap, to be a witness of God's love, grace and mercy, and strength.

I agree. I mentioned Joni in a post before but it fell on the typical deaf ears of those in the word of faith movement.

Blindfaith

1st February 2003, 02:45 AM

She's truly amazing, and an incredible example of faith in action.

God is truly using her for His glory, and to help not only those who are suffering in the same way, people who are struggling in their faith, and people who are having no problems at all. :)

Thanks for mentioning her!!

Much love,

BF

Apologist

1st February 2003, 02:50 AM

Originally posted by blindfaith
She's truly amazing, and an incredible example of faith in action.

God is truly using her for His glory, and to help not only those who are suffering in the same way, people who are struggling in their faith, and people who are having no problems at all. :)

Thanks for mentioning her!!

Much love,

BF

My pleasure.

I think every Christian should read her book, "When God Weeps: Why our Sufferings Matter to the Almighty" it is excellent. Her book, "Heaven: Our Real Home" is also very good.

God Bless

Theresa

1st February 2003, 01:39 PM

God's Promise

God didn't promise
days without pain,
laughter without sorrow
or sun without rain,
But God did promise
strength for the day,
comfort for the tears
and a light for the way.
And for all who believe
in His kingdom above,
He answers their faith
with everlasting love.

 

I think this is so beautiful. :clap:

 

Theresa

SUNSTONE

1st February 2003, 03:09 PM

We have the power to raise people from the dead, the bible says, but the balance is there is a time to die.

Jesus said over and over "let it be done according to your faith". The balance is, that you won't recieve the answer to your prayer right away alot of times. God will use various trials to make you a stronger person, but God isn't in the business of torture. Another balance would be if you ignored God and kept on sinning, and when you reap you harvest, it says in proverbs that He won't even listen to your prayers. Thats why when Prophets prayed and fasted, they also confessed sins.

If your not seeing specific answered prayers on a regular bases, then there is something wrong.

SpiritPsalmist

1st February 2003, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by blindfaith So what happens when someone ins't healed?

What happens?  I keep standing in faith.  1 Cor 2:5 "that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God". Eph 6:13 "wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand"

I keep believing that God is faithful.  Even when things don't work out the way I want.

Originally posted by blindfaith Does that mean that he or she, and the people that are praying for him/her, lacks faith?

Well, a pat answer to this is NO.  But there really is no pat answer.  There are many reasons that the manifestation of healing is refused by the flesh.

Does the fact that the manifestation of healing does not happen mean that God made them sick?  Sickness comes on us for many reasons.  God uses sickness but He is not the author of it.

It's not my place or anyone else's to decide the reason behind peoples dying or being sick, or crippled or any other sin (Adamic) induced calamity.

I do however, believe that all believers have authority over our enemy satan and his demons.  We do not have to succumb to the rules of sin and the horrors that the heathen experience with death.

If Christ does not return first, I expect to grow old and eventually die, "it is appointed unto man, once to die".  However, it does not have to be a horrible experience.

Originally posted by Stormy What is going to happen to your faith when God does not heal?

I believe that I am already healed, just like I am already saved.  IS 53:5 says "He was wounded for my transgressions, bruised for my iniquities, and by His stripes I am healed."

I'd like to reword your question: What is going ot happen to your faith when the manifestation of healing does not happen?  Well . . . I've been there, done that.  You can read about here : http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=320592#post320592

Originally posted by Stormy
It is a safe bet to say that one day, you will not be healed, and you will die.

Well . . .being that Jesus is coming soon, that's not really that safe of a bet. :)

Old age is not a sickness.  If I've done everything God's called me to do and I can say 'I've run the race, I've finished the course', I'll be quite content to leave this world.  But I don't have to be sick or die in some horrible accident to do it.  Or maybe, like Paul, I'll be priviledged enough to be able to lay my life down, for the gospel. I don't know.  But I don't plan on allowing the enemy taking me out before it's time.

Originally posted by Stormy
Knowing this... in your final days will you turn from God, or will your faith increase as you prepare to leave this world?

As followers of Christ, we can expect to experience many trials and tribulations.  In many forms.  And it is expected that we be overcomers of these trials and tribulations, in all their forms.  It is not acceptable that they overcome us.

I'm preparing to leave this world today, by learning to walk in obedience to God and His Word, and trusting that what He says is the truth, no matter what the circumstances say.

When my appointed time to die comes, I plan to die believing that He heals.  I plan to never turn from God.  Giving up is not an option I give myself.  I plan for my faith to increase.  All the way up to the moment I see Him face to face . . .no matter how it happens.

Quaffer

 

 

Andrew

3rd February 2003, 05:03 AM

Quaffer,

I think you'll love what FF Bosworth's son said abt his father's faith in praying for the sick. I quote from the classic book Christ the Healer:

"When he [FF Bosworth] discovered this truth, he vowed to God that he wld never again base his faith and doctrine on human experience or man's teaching. He wld base his faith only on what GOd said in his Word. He would pray for the sick only on that basis; if they dropped dead when he prayed for them, he would step over the dead body and pray for the next one."

we shldnt let human experiences and personal testimonies detract us from God's unchanging Word.

And if Jesus tarries, may this be the way we go too:

"In 1958 Fred Bosworth returned from a year of meetings up and down the mountains of Japan. In January he turned 81. His family was surprised to see him retire to his bed. When asked what he was doing, he explained that God had shown him that he had "finished his course," his ministry was finished, and it was time to go Home. He said, "I sure don't want to hang around down here!" All the children came home, for the first time in 16 years, and there was a great final reunion.

"My father, F F Bosworth, had prayed, asking God to help him glorify God in his death as he had in his life -- to die without sickness. About three weeks after he took to his bed, we were around the bed talking, laughing, singing. Suddenly Dad looked up; he never saw us again. He saw what was invisible to us. He began to greet people and hug people -- he was enraptured. Every once in a while he would break off and look around saying, "Oh, it is so beautiful."

"He did this for several hours. Finally, with a smile on his face, he put his head back and slept. We took turns sitting with him. My wife Stella, was sitting with him when she suddenly realised that he had stopped breathing. There had been no struggle, no pain, no sound, no death rattle. The psalmist had described it correctly - God had simply removed his breath and he was home! "0 death, where is thy sting? 0 grave, where is thy victory?" This is the testimony and ultimate triumph of F F Bosworth and CHRIST, THE HEALER."

:)

SpiritPsalmist

3rd February 2003, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Andrew
Quaffer,

I think you'll love what FF Bosworth's son said abt his father's faith in praying for the sick. I quote from the classic book Christ the Healer:

"When he [FF Bosworth] discovered this truth, he vowed to God that he wld never again base his faith and doctrine on human experience or man's teaching. He wld base his faith only on what GOd said in his Word. He would pray for the sick only on that basis; if they dropped dead when he prayed for them, he would step over the dead body and pray for the next one."

we shldnt let human experiences and personal testimonies detract us from God's unchanging Word.

And if Jesus tarries, may this be the way we go too:

"In 1958 Fred Bosworth returned from a year of meetings up and down the mountains of Japan. In January he turned 81. His family was surprised to see him retire to his bed. When asked what he was doing, he explained that God had shown him that he had "finished his course," his ministry was finished, and it was time to go Home. He said, "I sure don't want to hang around down here!" All the children came home, for the first time in 16 years, and there was a great final reunion.

"My father, F F Bosworth, had prayed, asking God to help him glorify God in his death as he had in his life -- to die without sickness. About three weeks after he took to his bed, we were around the bed talking, laughing, singing. Suddenly Dad looked up; he never saw us again. He saw what was invisible to us. He began to greet people and hug people -- he was enraptured. Every once in a while he would break off and look around saying, "Oh, it is so beautiful."

"He did this for several hours. Finally, with a smile on his face, he put his head back and slept. We took turns sitting with him. My wife Stella, was sitting with him when she suddenly realised that he had stopped breathing. There had been no struggle, no pain, no sound, no death rattle. The psalmist had described it correctly - God had simply removed his breath and he was home! "0 death, where is thy sting? 0 grave, where is thy victory?" This is the testimony and ultimate triumph of F F Bosworth and CHRIST, THE HEALER."

:)

Wow Andrew, thanks for sharing that part from the book.  I've got to go dig it out of my library, I read it several years ago, and read it again.  :)

dignitized

3rd February 2003, 01:06 PM

OKAy I have an idea. Lets do a mission to Haiti. Lets go to Haiti and preach the word or faith. Lets teach the haitians that if they want a BMW all they have to do is name it and claim it and they will have it. Then we can teach the haitians that the reason why they have sickness is because of their lack of faith . . . wouldn't that be a splendid mission trip . . . :sigh: Is it any wonder the word of faith movement is non-existant in the third world? They just don't have enough faith to make it work . . . . :sigh:

SpiritPsalmist

3rd February 2003, 01:18 PM

Andrew

3rd February 2003, 09:58 PM

Wow Andrew, thanks for sharing that part from the book.Ê I've got to go dig it out of my library, I read it several years ago, and read it again.Ê

you might not see that portion in your book becos I got the latest edition. not sure if the old edition has it. but its a great book aint it! :)

Is it any wonder the word of faith movement is non-existant in the third world?
*LOL that's so ignorant and naive. and so what if it was, doesnt change the truths presented.

http://www.walkinginpower.org/

http://www.wordoffaith.org.za/

Outspoken

3rd February 2003, 11:09 PM

The only thing I have to say about this subject is
1. God isn't a candy machine
2. God sometimes says no to healing.

dignitized

3rd February 2003, 11:33 PM

out: very true. God will not be intimidated.

Andrew

4th February 2003, 12:09 AM

Quaffie,

I posted a spin-off to this over here:
http://www.christianforums.com/threads/34588.html

do join in if you can. :)

potatohorse

4th February 2003, 09:16 AM

God chooses whom he will heal.

SpiritPsalmist

4th February 2003, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by Br. Max
out: very true. God will not be intimidated.

Br. Max,

Does it intimadate you when your children repeat what you say?  Why would you think that God's children repeating what He says would be an intimadation tactic? :scratch:

Would you say that I should read the Bible, but don't believe what it says, except on the getting saved part?

I'm not demanding that God fullfill His promises.  Since He cannot deny Himself, He has put the demand on Himself.  It's His promises.  Why should I not believe them? I'm merely demanding that my flesh respond to what He's says.  That may intimidate my flesh but are we not told to put the flesh under subjection to God?

I don't know what preacher you have been listening to, but I would appreciate it if you would stop accusing me of saying what they teach.  

Jesus heals! He, God,  says it, therefore I'm only repeating what HE said.

Quaffer

SpiritPsalmist

4th February 2003, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by Andrew
you might not see that portion in your book becos I got the latest edition. not sure if the old edition has it. but its a great book aint it! :)

*LOL that's so ignorant and naive. and so what if it was, doesnt change the truths presented.

http://www.walkinginpower.org/

http://www.wordoffaith.org.za/

In the book "I Just Saw Jesus", by the leader of the Jesus film team, with Campus Crusade, even they have reported miraculous healings taking place in third world countries.  Most Campus Crusaders are not Charasmatic but their beliefs quickly change when they see people believing what they see Jesus doing in the film and are healed and delivered from demons instantly. And the Campus Crusaders did not even lay hands on them.

It's in America that it is not seen because we have too many ways of creating "special effects". 

Our church is planning to go to Haiti this year.  We've gone to other countries already and found the people hungry and thirsty for the Word of God.  They are being given hope and a future, just like God said. 

God also said, "My people perish for lack of knowledge".  America's lack of knowledge for the things of God and great knowledge of the things of man has kept them from believing God, the One who gave man the knowledge he has.  :(

Terri

4th February 2003, 04:17 PM

Does God always heal?

Eventually!  :D

That's what my husband always tells me!

All things work to good, so whether I am healed in this world or in heaven really doesn't matter to me.

 

SUNSTONE

4th February 2003, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by Br. Max
OKAy I have an idea. Lets do a mission to Haiti. Lets go to Haiti and preach the word or faith. Lets teach the haitians that if they want a BMW all they have to do is name it and claim it and they will have it. Then we can teach the haitians that the reason why they have sickness is because of their lack of faith . . . wouldn't that be a splendid mission trip . . . :sigh: Is it any wonder the word of faith movement is non-existant in the third world? They just don't have enough faith to make it work . . . . :sigh:

Wow what a great idea!
There is only one problem with it. Its already being done. ;)
I have a friend in church that does this same thing(without the car wishs).
He went to Haiti many times, as well as other countrys. There are several people that I know that do this , all over the world.
The go there, build churchs, witness to people,and teach the word. People get saved, and guess what? They also get healed.

That is a great idea, it sure beats the heck out of, picking on people who do what God wants them to do. Which is to change lives by grace, through faith.

SUNSTONE

4th February 2003, 07:11 PM

Mother Vashti

4th February 2003, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
]He went to Haiti many times, as well as other countrys. There are several people that I know that do this , all over the world.
The go there, build churchs, witness to people,and teach the word. People get saved, and guess what? They also get healed.
[/B]

While I don't doubt that God will heal by faith, there just is no recognizable pattern we can draw from those who are healed, and those who are not.

My own conclusion is that God heals when..

1) His will is in sync with yours; He wants you to be healed.
2) There is no one else but Him (ie,divine intervention must take place) that can help you.

It's hard to make sense of why some people are healed, some are not, some believe they are healed and they regress into sickness.

SUNSTONE

4th February 2003, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by Mother Vashti
While I don't doubt that God will heal by faith, there just is no recognizable pattern we can draw from those who are healed, and those who are not.

My own conclusion is that God heals when..

1) His will is in sync with yours; He wants you to be healed.
2) There is no one else but Him (ie,divine intervention must take place) that can help you.

It's hard to make sense of why some people are healed, some are not, some believe they are healed and they regress into sickness.

The pattern is this, keep knocking, keep seeking, keep asking, keep fighting. You may not win every battle, but the war is already won! :clap:
You may have never seen a healing, but I have, in fact I have seen alot of them!
You might think that if you have seen and done them, by grace, that you wouldn't have any fear come against you to do more of them. But you would be surprised how much fear comes against me whenever I go to lay hands on people. I can hear the devil saying "its not going to work, you are going to look like a fool" etc.

Did you know that Jesus couldn't heal everyone, even though it was His will?

On your statement of #2 you say that it is God alone. I used to believe that but this isn't true, nor biblical. Yes God does do it alone many times, but He can and does use doctors or other outside help. Jesus used mud, and spit. I can remember a prophet telling someone to dip themselve in the water 7 times.

True story.
Oral Hershiser is a hall of fame pitcher.
He had reconstructive surgery on his pitching arm. He tore his rotator cuff, and it needed to be fixed. He was written off as a used pitcher, because no one ever, in the history of baseball has ever come back from this type of injury. His pastor laid hands on him to recieve a healing. He had the surgery, and was able to play baseball again.

He pitched more innings after the surgery, than before.
He won more games after the surgery, than before.
Remember no pitcher has every returned successfully to baseball after this injury, and this man did it with a bang.
On the first night that he came back, on the first batter that he faced. He threw a pitch that was foul tipped. It landed in his pastors lap! :clap:

I heard this from Orels mouth, on the show "Focus on the Family" with Charles Dobson.

potatohorse

4th February 2003, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by SUNSTONE

On your statement of #2 you say that it is God alone. I used to believe that but this isn't true, nor biblical. Yes God does do it alone many times, but He can and does use doctors or other outside help. Jesus used mud, and spit. I can remember a prophet telling someone to dip themselve in the water 7 times.

True story.
Oral Hershiser is a hall of fame pitcher.
He had reconstructive surgery on his pitching arm. He tore his rotator cuff, and it needed to be fixed. He was written off as a used pitcher, because no one ever, in the history of baseball has ever come back from this type of injury. His pastor laid hands on him to recieve a healing. He had the surgery, and was able to play baseball again.

He pitched more innings after the surgery, than before.
He won more games after the surgery, than before.
Remember no pitcher has every returned successfully to baseball after this injury, and this man did it with a bang.
On the first night that he came back, on the first batter that he faced. He threw a pitch that was foul tipped. It landed in his pastors lap! :clap:

I heard this from Orels mouth, on the show "Focus on the Family" with Charles Dobson.

heard this story and good point made here.

Mother Vashti

4th February 2003, 09:16 PM

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
]The pattern is this, keep knocking, keep seeking, keep asking, keep fighting. You may not win every battle, but the war is already won! :clap:
You may have never seen a healing, but I have, in fact I have seen alot of them!
You might think that if you have seen and done them, by grace, that you wouldn't have any fear come against you to do more of them. But you would be surprised how much fear comes against me whenever I go to lay hands on people. I can hear the devil saying "its not going to work, you are going to look like a fool" etc.

Did you know that Jesus couldn't heal everyone, even though it was His will?

On your statement of #2 you say that it is God alone. I used to believe that but this isn't true, nor biblical. Yes God does do it alone many times, but He can and does use doctors or other outside help. Jesus used mud, and spit. I can remember a prophet telling someone to dip themselve in the water 7 times.
[/B] Well, touche.

JohnR7

4th February 2003, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by Mother Vashti
[b]While I don't doubt that God will heal by faith, there just is no recognizable pattern we can draw from those who are healed, and those who are not. 

We know that God will heal any area of our lives that would hinder us in any way from serving Him or doing His will. I did a study in the Bible once of those who were healed, and in every one of those passages it talked about faith. Not always the faith of the person healed, sometimes it was the faith of a friend, or an employer or a parent. But someone had faith to believe God for the healing of the person who needed a touch from God.

Andrew

4th February 2003, 10:28 PM

My own conclusion is that God heals when..
1) His will is in sync with yours; He wants you to be healed.

therein lies the problem. just what is God's will regarding healing? Well the answer is already given clearly in the Bible -- "I am willing. Be healed". God will is God Word which says he wants us well. And God is no respector of persons. IOW he wants his children well. That's clearly in the Word.

It's hard to make sense of why some people are healed, some are not, some believe they are healed and they regress into sickness.

that's all besides the point becos personal testimonies can't change God's Word. We may not understnd everything but we stick to his Word and move on to the next.

ikester7579

5th February 2003, 03:41 AM

That's a tall order question. But I will give you something to think about. What was the one thing that Jesus said most often when someone was healed?
And the reason some people lose their healing is because they lose something. It's the answer to the first question. Because it is usually a demonic spirit that causes illness etc... Losing this allows it to come back. And never having it will keep you from being healed. For God sees in our hearts who we really are and how much of this we have. We may think we have enough, But how much is enough. Does anyone know the answer that fills in the blank?

Blade

6th February 2003, 03:46 AM

Originally posted by Live4Jesus
Blade don't you think God delivers faith, He works it in us? It's always been my impression, were it not for Him hanging around, even when I didn't know He was there... because without God being present the devil surely would have crashed this car aeons ago...

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Romans 12:3 - For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Sorry forgot where I posted lol. Not sure what you mean by 'delivers faith' unless you mean like when you are praying for some one and then all of a sudden its like you could move the world then yes. I know what you mean 'him hanging around' he just made me really stop and think that 'when two or three are together in my name he's there' not in thought but really right there. Bless you Live4Jesus.

Blade

6th February 2003, 04:03 AM

Originally posted by Br. Max
You are right that without faith we cannot please God but - what kind of faith is pleasing to God?

To please God 1Jn 3:21-22,; 5:14-15

We must come to God in the right attitude and with the right motives. Mt 6:5-15; 7:7-11; PHl 4:5-6. We need to believe that he is Jn 16:23. It says we need to believe that he is a rewarder of them that diligenty seek him. If we can believe this as much as we believe in the existence of God, prayer will be granted. If we believe firmly in his existence and doubt his word, we make him a liar and God is under no obligation to answer prayer Jas 1:4-8.  And the word 'diligently' is ekzeteo translated diligenty seek (heb 11:6) seek after (ac 15:27;ro 3:11) seek carefully (heb 12:17); require (lk 11:50-51) and enquire (1Pe 1:10).

Blade

6th February 2003, 04:18 AM

Originally posted by blindfaith
So what happens when someone isn't healed?

Does that mean that he or she, and the people that are praying for him/her, lacks faith?

I want to see the responses here.

I think you know--know one really likes to touch these kinda questions ;) I can give you one, I said it before but my moms husband died of cancer yet everyone around him only heard him say God is going to heal him. But when he was with me he would cry and just new he was gona die. You see in this one case you nor I would have known what he says when no one else is around.

There is so many things that can get in the way. If your faith is up and down then the word makes it very clear you will not get anything. But then we eat anything, some have drank, smoke and then down the road they get saved and if they get sick its Gods will to be sick and not there fault, NOT. Most people wait untill there sick and then try to believe and if they don't get an answer fast then its God will again to be sick, sorry NOT. I say Gods word all the time I do not wait I know what I am and what I have through Jesus christ. For me it is so easy to believe for someone else. Now when it comes to believeing for myself I find it VERY hard.

Blade

6th February 2003, 04:32 AM

Originally posted by Apologist
I agree. I mentioned Joni in a post before but it fell on the typical deaf ears of those in the word of faith movement.

You know I have heard out of her own mouth that she believes that God wants here that way, not to be healed. Not that God heals but has a greater job for her the way she is. If I want to go to hell God will NOT make me go to heaven. You NEVER stop believeing, you have to know what Gods word says and stick to it. I am not gona say anything to her but praise God.  If it has worked for me then it can work for anyone. You can not look to the world to give you answers. If God said he will do something you cannot look at other people to get the answers, people fail God NEVER fails. He's never late he's always on time.

If you say God does not heal all the time then thats what you will get.

Andrew

6th February 2003, 04:43 AM

"Whoseover shall say unto this mountain : 'Sometimes God will move you, sometimes God won't', and shall not doubt in his heart that what he says will come to pass, then he shall have whatsoever he says." IOW sometimes God will move (heal), sometimes God wont move (heal). According to your faith be it unto you.

Those who strongly believe that God sometimes heals sometimes doesnt are right -- as far as their faith is concerned.

But those who strongly believe that God wants to heal all the time are also right -- as far as their faith is concerned.

According to your faith be it unto you :)

SpiritPsalmist

6th February 2003, 03:24 PM

[i] Originally posted by Apologist
I agree. I mentioned Joni in a post before but it fell on the typical deaf ears of those in the word of faith movement.

Joni's testimony does not fall on deaf ears. I have read her books and I've heard her testimony and I dissagree with her conclusion.

I believe it's wonderful how she has allowed God to use her despite her handicap. She could have fallen into dispair and seclusion, but she did not.

However, I do not believe God did it to her. I do not believe that God want's her to stay that way.  I do not believe that she asked for healing and God told her NO.

I think it's a sad thing that one believe that they have to be sick in order for them to obey what God wanted to do through them with health.

If we listen to God, and do what He says without being sick, it is a greater testimony then us, in dissobedience, allowing the enemy to lay us flat on our backs so we have nowhere to go but to Jesus.    It would have been better to have submitted to Him in the first place.

And I say this in relation to Joni's case only.  I do not believe that every handicap is dissobedience on the part of the handicaped person.

Quaffer

ikester7579

7th February 2003, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by Andrew
"
According to your faith be it unto you :)

 

Yep, that's the answer. Faith. Notice the word "According". Which may imply that if we have enough faith in what is going on at that moment. When Jesus healed the girl that was dead. He had everyone leave the room but his followers and the girls parents. Do you know why? Jesus could not perform his miracles in a room with no faith(non-believers). But when they were gone he did what he came to do.

SUNSTONE

7th February 2003, 02:52 PM

Did you know that Jesus COULD NOT heal some people because of THERE unbelief?

Apologist

7th February 2003, 09:58 PM

Originally posted by ikester7579
 

Yep, that's the answer. Faith. Notice the word "According". Which may imply that if we have enough faith in what is going on at that moment. When Jesus healed the girl that was dead. He had everyone leave the room but his followers and the girls parents. Do you know why? Jesus could not perform his miracles in a room with no faith(non-believers). But when they were gone he did what he came to do.

The blind man in John chapter 9 didn't exercise faith at all.

10 Therefore they said to him, “How were your eyes opened?”
11 He answered and said, “A Man called Jesus made clay and anointed my eyes and said to me, ‘Go to the pool of Siloam and wash.’ So I went and washed, and I received sight.”
12 Then they said to him, “Where is He?”
He said, “I do not know.”

24 So they again called the man who was blind, and said to him, “Give God the glory! We know that this Man is a sinner.”
25 He answered and said, “Whether He is a sinner or not I do not know. One thing I know: that though I was blind, now I see.”

Isn't it interesting that a man who received his sight didn't even know who Jesus was?

Andrew

7th February 2003, 11:27 PM

Isn't it interesting that a man who received his sight didn't even know who Jesus was? This story flies in the face of the unbiblical, metaphysical teachings of the word of faith movement.

11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

He knew the man to be Jesus. And he had faith -- enough faith to let someone put spit and clay in his eyes (gosh he cld have said what the heck are u trying to do get lost!) and he had faith to go to the pool of Siloam to wash (gosh he could have acted like modern day sceptics and apologists and say are u nuts, now that you've dirtied my eyes you want me to go swimming? get out of here!).

Apologist

8th February 2003, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by Andrew

11 He answered and said, A man that is called Jesus made clay, and anointed mine eyes, and said unto me, Go to the pool of Siloam, and wash: and I went and washed, and I received sight.

He knew the man to be Jesus. And he had faith -- enough faith to let someone put spit and clay in his eyes (gosh he cld have said what the heck are u trying to do get lost!) and he had faith to go to the pool of Siloam to wash (gosh he could have acted like modern day sceptics and apologists and say are u nuts, now that you've dirtied my eyes you want me to go swimming? get out of here!).

Have a nice day

SpiritPsalmist

8th February 2003, 01:46 PM

Originally posted by Apologist
The blind man in John chapter 9 didn't exercise faith at all.

10 Therefore they said to him, “How were your eyes opened?”
11 He answered and said, “A Man called Jesus made clay and anointed my eyes and said to me, ‘Go to the pool of Siloam and wash.’ So I went and washed, and I received sight.”
12 Then they said to him, “Where is He?”
He said, “I do not know.”

24 So they again called the man who was blind, and said to him, “Give God the glory! We know that this Man is a sinner.”
25 He answered and said, “Whether He is a sinner or not I do not know. One thing I know: that though I was blind, now I see.”

Isn't it interesting that a man who received his sight didn't even know who Jesus was?

There is also a difference between "unbelief" and "no belief".  Unbelief is "I don't believe", etc. No believe is "I don't know".

Jesus went into His own hometown and people looked at Him and said, "oh that's just Joe's son, ya know the kid who helped his dad build our house.  He's nobody special."  They were saying "I don't believe".

The blind man had only heard a man named Jesus tell him to go wash in the pool.  He'd never seen Him.  It could be he'd never even heard of him.  But he was willing to take the risk of looking foolish, saying, "I don't know, but I'll try it".  And he was healed. 

Live4Jesus

9th February 2003, 12:40 AM

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
Did you know that Jesus COULD NOT heal some people because of THERE unbelief?

Either they wouldn't let Him near them, or else they wouldn't let go of what ailed them... thats my op there...

Pretty common dilemma. Even among Christians.

Blade

10th February 2003, 03:41 PM

SUNSTONE said this in Post #101 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=638820#post638820)

Did you know that Jesus COULD NOT heal some people because of THERE unbelief?

How sad but true...

Outspoken

10th February 2003, 08:46 PM

7th February 2003 at 06:52 PM SUNSTONE said this in Post #101 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=638820#post638820)

Did you know that Jesus COULD NOT heal some people because of THERE unbelief?

Words are very important. Christ DID NOT heal because of lack of faith. Could he have? Yes. God is not bound by our faith, nor is he unable to do anything without our faith.

Live4Jesus

10th February 2003, 08:57 PM

If you always look to God, with nothing tn between to hamper that ('cept Jesus), God will always be there for you.

If on the other hand, you look to God one day and the next day pray to buddha or whatever for your requests,,, well God wiil let buddha answer...

hope you don't wait too long....

SUNSTONE

11th February 2003, 12:55 PM

Yesterday at 07:46 PM Outspoken said this in Post #108 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=645172#post645172)

Words are very important. Christ DID NOT heal because of lack of faith. Could he have? Yes. God is not bound by our faith, nor is he unable to do anything without our faith.

Then you are calling Jesus a lier. He rebuked the disciples for there lack of faith.

If God could do just anything, then why do people goto hell? It says in the bible, it is God's will that "all" come to the full repentance of Christ.

I have said it before and I will say it again.
Why should anyone listen to you, who has zero answered prayers on healings, and others on here have testified over and over about recieving healings?

I love you brother, but its time for you to wake up. You serve an awesome God! :clap:
It is Gods will to drastictly change your life!Jesus said I have come so that you may have life, and that you may have it more abundantly!
All these things that we are telling you about healings and prosperity, aren't for you! Only a selfish person would think like that. These things are for you to be a blessing to EVERYONE around you!
The bible says to pray for one another, it says to give to those who ask. Jesus gave his life, Jesus washed the disciples feet, Jesus prayed for people, Jesus healed people, Jesus set people free, Jesus conquered sin and death, and said I have all the power and now I give it to you! Now go and make disciples out of all the nations, and these things shall follow, they shall speak in tongues, raise the dead, and lay hands on the sick and they shall recover.

BY GRACE THROUGH FAITH!

Outspoken

11th February 2003, 09:39 PM

"Then you are calling Jesus a lier."

Not at all. God rebuked them for lack of faith, but as romans clearly says in chapter 3 "What if some did not have faith? Wheir lack of fiath nullify God's faithfullness?" Nope :) If God wants something done, it will be done no matter what. As the pslams also say, Be still and know that he is God and his name WILL be exaulted....

No maybe about it. God's power is NOT dependant on your faith brother. the sooner you realize that the better off you will be. You need God, not the other way around.

"who has zero answered prayers on healings"

HUH? What does this have to do with this at all? You've never been risen from the dead, so why should I listen to you about a risen Christ? That's the silliest argument I've ever heard. You should listen to me because my words are true and backed up by scripture.

That's the thing, God is a mightly and powerful God, and it is by his LOVE that we are included. He does not need us anymore then you need an ant. God loves us thus grants what he thinks best for us when we ask through faith. Ask and you shall find, but be prepared for a no because sometimes he says no.

Blade

12th February 2003, 01:34 PM

Yesterday at 06:39 PM Outspoken said this in Post #111 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=647563#post647563)

"Then you are calling Jesus a lier."

Not at all. God rebuked them for lack of faith, but as romans clearly says in chapter 3 "What if some did not have faith? Wheir lack of fiath nullify God's faithfullness?" Nope :) If God wants something done, it will be done no matter what. As the pslams also say, Be still and know that he is God and his name WILL be exaulted....

No maybe about it. God's power is NOT dependant on your faith brother. the sooner you realize that the better off you will be. You need God, not the other way around.

"who has zero answered prayers on healings"

HUH? What does this have to do with this at all? You've never been risen from the dead, so why should I listen to you about a risen Christ? That's the silliest argument I've ever heard. You should listen to me because my words are true and backed up by scripture.

That's the thing, God is a mightly and powerful God, and it is by his LOVE that we are included. He does not need us anymore then you need an ant. God loves us thus grants what he thinks best for us when we ask through faith. Ask and you shall find, but be prepared for a no because sometimes he says no.

I see what your saying but it is not scripture. In Mark 6:5 Jesus could do NO mighty work because of the lack of faith. Then there's James 1:6 But let him ask in FAITH, NOTHING wavering, For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. Ver 7, For let not that man think he shall receive ANYTHING of the Lord. 8, a double minded man is unstable in all his ways. He who doubts is like a wave that is rising one moment, sinking the next. One minute he believes; another he does not. He says yes and then no to what God has promised, never making up his mind which way he believes. He staggers like a drunken man, helpless in prayer. How about Psa 37 4:2 Delight thyself also in the LORD; and he shall give thee the desiers of thine heart. Or Matt 7:7, Matt 18:19, John 15:7-8, John 15:16, John 16:23-26. What if we want something done we have to believe "his word" and pray.

If I need and want my two boys SO much how much more does God need and want you and I.

Your "If God wants something done, it will be done no matter what" shows a lack of reading the word(unless I am taking it wrong,thanks blindfaith). Do you know what he is talking about in Rom 3:3? If you read before and after you will see what he is talking about. God is Faithfull, if you some don't believe in his promises that will not stop God from keeping his promises to those who do believe.

 

Blindfaith

12th February 2003, 01:57 PM

Your "If God wants something done, it will be done no matter what" shows a lack of reading the word.

Forgive me if I'm reading this wrong Blade, but that kind of sounds to me like putting restraints or conditions on God.  Meaning, that all things are possible with God, and if He wants something done, He'll do it if it's according to His purpose and furthers the Kingdom plan.

I mean, even people with no faith and no belief are being used by God to further His Kingdom, they just don't know it!  Praise God in all His wisdom.  If God only did things through people of faith, then not as much would be getting done, don't you think?  I mean, let's take the Pharoah of Egypt for example.  He obviously didn't have any faith, and his heart was hardened.  God used him magnificently to further His Kingdom plan, by delivering His children out of Egypt on the Exodus.

Am I making sense or did I read you wrong? :confused: :eek: :o

To all of my brothers & sisters in Christ, have a fantastic and GLORIOUS day in the Lord!!!

Much love,

BF

Blade

12th February 2003, 02:10 PM

Today at 10:57 AM blindfaith said this in Post #113 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=648832#post648832)

Forgive me if I'm reading this wrong Blade, but that kind of sounds to me like putting restraints or conditions on God.  Meaning, that all things are possible with God, and if He wants something done, He'll do it if it's according to His purpose and furthers the Kingdom plan.

I mean, even people with no faith and no belief are being used by God to further His Kingdom, they just don't know it!  Praise God in all His wisdom.  If God only did things through people of faith, then not as much would be getting done, don't you think?  I mean, let's take the Pharoah of Egypt for example.  He obviously didn't have any faith, and his heart was hardened.  God used him magnificently to further His Kingdom plan, by delivering His children out of Egypt on the Exodus.

Am I making sense or did I read you wrong? :confused: :eek: :o

To all of my brothers & sisters in Christ, have a fantastic and GLORIOUS day in the Lord!!!

Much love,

BF

Hi blindfaith, you are right, I may have taken what he said wrong but I took it as God can do anything like "your gona be saved no matter what because thats what God wants". Now if he ment it like you said then I took it wrong and to him sorry :)  

SUNSTONE

12th February 2003, 02:40 PM

Why would God tell us to pray, if He was so sovergn and totally in control?
I mean if He was totally in control, all we would have to do is just sit there.

Why do people goto hell, when it is Gods will that all come to the full repentance of the Lord?

What do are the gifts healings and miracles, used for?

Outspoken you have some scripture, I have alot of scripture, you have works(nothing) and I have works(many testimonies).
So why should anyone listen to you?

Blade

12th February 2003, 03:41 PM

7th February 2003 at 10:04 PM Apologist said this in Post #104 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=640006#post640006)

Have a nice day

Thats it? Well if we go to Ver 17 of the same chp they say" what sayest thou of him,  that he hath opened thine eyes? He said, He is a prophet." A real good guess?. It does'nt say he had or had not faith, lets not try to make is say something it's not.

Outspoken

12th February 2003, 10:12 PM

"In Mark 6:5 Jesus could do NO mighty work because of the lack of faith. "

no....read the passage. He wouldn't do it because of lack of faith.

"shows a lack of reading the word"
not at all. It shows an understanding of who God is ;)

"Psa 46:10 Be still, and know that I [am] God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. "

notice the word WILL ;) Regardless of what we do, it will happen. God does what he wants, his plan WILL happen.

"If you read before and after you will see what he is talking about. God is Faithfull, if you some don't believe in his promises that will not stop God from keeping his promises to those who do believe.
"
I know exactly what it means. It means that when we fail God is faithful, he is still going even when we fail, ie, if we don't do God's plan, he will do it because no matter what happens it will get done. He wants you healed, you will be healed. If not, then not.

"God wants"

Can you refuse the will of God? Could Judus or Pharro?

Blade

13th February 2003, 12:52 AM

Today at 07:12 PM Outspoken said this in Post #117 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=649799#post649799)

"In Mark 6:5 Jesus could do NO mighty work because of the lack of faith. "

no....read the passage. He wouldn't do it because of lack of faith.

"shows a lack of reading the word"
not at all. It shows an understanding of who God is ;)

"Psa 46:10 Be still, and know that I [am] God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth. "

notice the word WILL ;) Regardless of what we do, it will happen. God does what he wants, his plan WILL happen.

"If you read before and after you will see what he is talking about. God is Faithfull, if you some don't believe in his promises that will not stop God from keeping his promises to those who do believe.
"
I know exactly what it means. It means that when we fail God is faithful, he is still going even when we fail, ie, if we don't do God's plan, he will do it because no matter what happens it will get done. He wants you healed, you will be healed. If not, then not.

"God wants"

Can you refuse the will of God? Could Judus or Pharro?

Maybe I am just reading it wrong. You are right in God will get his praise. There is no verse in the bible for "if not, then not"