Saved by grace....

[Adammi]

Are we really saved by grace? Do you as a Fundamentalist Christian really believe that our works have nothing to do with whether or not we go to heaven?

[MikeMcK]

Are we really saved by grace? Do you as a Fundamentalist Christian really believe that our works have nothing to do with whether or not we go to heaven?

If we could earn salvation by our works, then it wouldn't be grace.

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

[TwinCrier]

If works had to be added to accomplish salvation, what of the man crucified next to Jesus? He must have been guilty of many horrible crimes to warrant crucifixion, yet Christ told him he would be going to paradise. He didn't have time to clean up his life or do good deeds. Either he sent to heaven, or Jesus lied. There are many people who, due to having abundance, do many good deeds. They don't deserve heaven simply because they have time and money. Grace is so simple because Jesus loves us too much to make salvation difficult.

[Adammi]

I agree with you all 100%, but to me, Fundamentalist often believe this in theory, but not in practice.

[arunma]

I agree with you all 100%, but to me, Fundamentalist often believe this in theory, but not in practice.

I had precisely the same idea in mind. It is true not only of fundamentalists, but of quite a few Christians. Do we really believe in salvation by grace through faith? There's a multitude of things we can add on to this. For example, some fundamentalists add abstaining from alcohol, gambling, and movies. Liberals tend to add good works. Ultimately, it seems to me that a lot of people believe in salvation by grace through faith as merely an intellectual argument. Christians often teach to the effect of "you must do x, y, and z, but you must understand that this does not save you."

I wonder: what is the point in believing in sola gracia and sola fide on a mere intellectual level, as if it were a scientific fact to be memorized for later recital on a theological quiz? Should the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith not ingrain itself into our religious practice at a far deeper level? I think it should. It seems to me that all Christians need to embrace the freedom of salvation by grace through faith, instead of believing that God will only give us our admission ticket to heaven on the condition that we verbally recite the doctrine to him.

[Adammi]

I had precisely the same idea in mind. It is true not only of fundamentalists, but of quite a few Christians. Do we really believe in salvation by grace through faith? There's a multitude of things we can add on to this. For example, some fundamentalists add abstaining from alcohol, gambling, and movies. Liberals tend to add good works. Ultimately, it seems to me that a lot of people believe in salvation by grace through faith as merely an intellectual argument. Christians often teach to the effect of "you must do x, y, and z, but you must understand that this does not save you."

I wonder: what is the point in believing in sola gracia and sola fide on a mere intellectual level, as if it were a scientific fact to be memorized for later recital on a theological quiz? Should the doctrine of salvation by grace through faith not ingrain itself into our religious practice at a far deeper level? I think it should. It seems to me that all Christians need to embrace the freedom of salvation by grace through faith, instead of believing that God will only give us our admission ticket to heaven on the condition that we verbally recite the doctrine to him.
Yes, that is exactly what I meant by my post.
It seems to me that the only reason many people even believe in sola fide and sola gracia is simply because they want to be as different from Roman Catholics as possible.
Ask most Evangelicals in church if you are saved by works and they will tel you emphatically, NO, but ask that on the street outside of a bar and they wouldn't be so sure. Not, that drunkenness is a good thing, but we are not saved by soberness either.

[arunma]

Yes, that is exactly what I meant by my post.
It seems to me that the only reason many people even believe in sola fide and sola gracia is simply because they want to be as different from Roman Catholics as possible.
Ask most Evangelicals in church if you are saved by works and they will tel you emphatically, NO, but ask that on the street outside of a bar and they wouldn't be so sure. Not, that drunkenness is a good thing, but we are not saved by soberness either.

This is probably the same issue as the Pharisees who put "fences" around the Law. In Christ's time, some Jews would practice regulations that were more restrictive than the Law of Moses, so as to avoid violating the Law. Unfortunately, they began passing these teachings off as commandments from God. For example, we know that drunkenness is a sin. If you avoid the bar and the liquor store, there's no way to get drunk. But nowhere does God command us not to drink, and so many Christians commit sin when they require the entire church to adhere to their temperance rules.

At my church, some people drink, and others don't. We don't judge each other, and we don't impose our personal rules on anyone else, only holding our brethren accountable for the divine command against drunkenness. Heck, I've even been to the bar with friends from my church.

[Adammi]

I have enjoyed your posts a lot arunma.
I think that the reason we have this differentiation in theory and practice is because sometime along the way salvation has become a "get out of hell free ticket".
Jesus' message was "repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand", it was not "repent so you can go to the kingdom of heaven". Heaven has been made out to be nothing more than a postmortem place of rest for the righteous, when it is actually so much more than that. You can participate and further the kingdom of heaven, right here, right now. So yes, if you want to participate in this right here, right now "kingdom of heaven" you need and want to do good works to the glory of the king of the kingdom, however the "get out of hell free ticket" is exactly that, free, you don't have to do diddlysquat to get it.
So, IMHO, for some reason we have forgotton the border between the right here, right now kingdom of heaven and the heavenly abode of the righteous dead.

[RenaeNicole]

I have never really thought that in Christianity there SHOULD be a difference between what you think in church and what you think outside of it. Gosh, I can't imagine where I would be if Christ had not found it in him to save me. Grace covers all sins but that doesn't mean that we should sin on purpose. Personally, I want people to know that I did NOT get to Heaven because of what I did, but because of what God did for me, the undeserving person that I am. I wouldn't be who I am today if it were not for him, his understanding love and compassion and his wonderful grace. :)

[kenrapoza]

I agree with you all 100%, but to me, Fundamentalist often believe this in theory, but not in practice.
I can really appreciate the nature of your post! I would say that I agree with this doctrine in theory and in practice because I am 100% convinced that I have no ability within myself to do contribute to my salvation. I've proved this so many times by my mistakes. But that doesn't mean that I don't try to live in God's will and do the good works that He calls me to do. Though I am not saved by good works, I am saved unto good works.

[No Swansong]

I can say without hesitation that I believe there is absolutely nothing that I am capable of doing that would add one iota of merit to the Grace that affects salvation. It is entirely a free gift of God to which I add nothing.
As for the practice of good works I never feel that I am "earning" heaven. Instead I feel that I am in some small way, within my very limited human abilities attempting to show my appreciation for this precious gift, and my love for He who provided this precious gift.

[BillR]

Are we really saved by grace? Do you as a Fundamentalist Christian really believe that our works have nothing to do with whether or not we go to heaven?
All we do is repent and trust in Jesus, thats it.