once saved, always saved?

[Dyin2live]

is there any truth to this?

[DIVA_for_Christ]

is there any truth to this?

Hello Dyin2live :wave:

Personally I don't agree with the mindset because it gives people an excuse to not do right and take God's grace, mercy and forgiveness for granted. Unfortunately there are a lot of Christians with this mindset and they do what they want, when they want and disobey the Lord time after time, with a "whatever" attitude.

Also in Philippians 2:12-15 it talks about us having to work out our own salvation. That indicates to me that our salvation is a process that we must embrace everyday by dying to self, by obeying His Spirit and living right for the Lord. Will we make mistakes - yes, will we fail at times - yes, will we sin at times - probably, but if our heart is right towards God and we truly are repentive and are not using the excuse of "once saved always saved" to justify our actions, foul intents and motives, I believe we will be in right standing with the Lord.

Philippians 2:12-15


12Therefore, my dear ones, as you have always obeyed [my suggestions], so now, not only [with the enthusiasm you would show] in my presence but much more because I am absent, work out (cultivate, carry out to the goal, and fully complete) your own salvation with reverence and awe and trembling (self-distrust, with serious caution, tenderness of conscience, watchfulness against temptation, timidly shrinking from whatever might offend God and discredit the name of Christ).
13[Not in your own strength] for it is God Who is all the while effectually at work in you [energizing and creating in you the power and desire], both to will and to work for His good pleasure and satisfaction and [c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians%202:12-17;&version=45;#fen-AMP-29403c)]delight.
14Do all things without grumbling and faultfinding and complaining [against God] and questioning and doubting [among yourselves], 15That you may show yourselves to be blameless and guiltless, innocent and uncontaminated, children of God without blemish (faultless, unrebukable) in the midst of a crooked and wicked generation [spiritually perverted and perverse], among whom you are seen as bright lights (stars or beacons shining out clearly) in the [dark] world,

Hope this helps you.

God Bless!

[Elijah2]

Yep, that is so correct.

Christians like their comfort zone, and they speak so many false words to build themselves up. The mindset is destructive.

You can lose your salvation, all you have to do is go back into your old way of thinking and habits.

If your "house is empty, swept, and put in order" (see Matthew 12:43-45), which happens to most Christians who believe false teaching, then you can lose your salvation.

It's like another false teaching that Satan can't touch you.

[holo]

is there any truth to this?I belive that I'm 100% saved all the time. For me to get "un-saved" must certainly require some sort of willful decision.

I'm always saved :)

[ephraimanesti]

is there any truth to this?

MY DEAR BROTHER,

i believe that the "once saved, always saved" idea is a satanic delusion given that Salvation is a process, not an event. Saint Paul explains this well in his first letter to the Corinthians: "DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT THOSE WHO RUN IN A RACE ALL RUN, BUT ONLY ONE RECEIVES THE PRIZE? RUN IN SUCH A WAY THAT YOU MAY WIN. EVERYONE WHO COMPETES IN THE GAMES EXERCISES SELF-CONTROL IN ALL THINGS. THEY THEN DO IT TO RECEIVE A PERISHABLE WREATH, BUT WE AN IMPERISHABLE. THEREFORE I RUN IN SUCH A WAY, AS NOT WITHOUT AIM; I BOX IN SUCH A WAY, AS NOT BEATING THE AIR; BUT I DISCIPLINE MY BODY AND MAKE IT MY SLAVE, SO THAT, AFTER I HAVE PREACHED TO OTHERS, I MYSELF WILL NOT BE DISQUALIFIED."(I Corinthians 9:24-27)

He also writes to the Philippians: "WORK OUT YOUR SALVATION WITH FEAR AND TREMBLING."(Philippians 2:12)

As is stated in one of the replies above, it all depends on the decisions we make. We can decide to follow the Lord to the end and be saved, or we can decide at some point that perhaps the world offers a better deal and turn away from God and be lost. "Once saved, always saved" is satan's way of instilling overconfidence in Christians to the point that they cease working out their Salvation with fear and trembling and forsake the necessary self-discipline which Salvation requires, and thus fall back into the darkness through sloth and overconfidence.

MUCH LOVE IN CHRIST,
ephraim

[Elijah2]

Yep, I agree wholeheartedly with your posting Ephraim, and the other Satanic lie is many Christians say that Satan can't touch them because they are saved.

[BeLedbyHisSpirit]

There is a severe problem with entertaining this discussion as a debate: It tends to cause people to reveal their sinful nature of "judging".

Last I heard, Christ God was the only One capable of making the call.

If you pay attention to a number of saints on this board, they testifiy time and time again at how they have been brought back to God, by God, by His love and mercy.

That, actually, is the testimony of the true church, to a dying and sick world - God is Love, gracious and merciful, and "Look at me, what a mess I was and kinda still am.... but how my life is proof and testimony to Him, and His GRACE and LOVE!"

There are numerous statements by God, and demonstration in abundance of His gathering His own, regardless of how far off the deep-end they seem to have gone.


John 10:27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
John 10:28 and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand.
John 10:29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.

Is this contingent upon our works???

and this one, too:


Rom 8:33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies;
Rom 8:34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 Just as it is written, "FOR THY SAKE WE ARE BEING PUT TO DEATH ALL DAY LONG; WE WERE CONSIDERED AS SHEEP TO BE SLAUGHTERED."
Rom 8:37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Ok? Oh, let us not forget this one:

Luke 15:4 "What man among you, if he has a hundred sheep and has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open pasture, and go after the one which is lost, until he finds it?
Luke 15:5 "And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
Luke 15:6 "And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, 'Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!'


IT is all His GRACE! IT is all HIS MERCY! IT is all HIS LOVE! IT is all a testimony of GOD's NEVER-ENDING mercy!


If you attempt to draw lines (as I have done too in my past!!!), the LIFE of God is not in it. What does this tell us? Learn and understand.


1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

[BeLedbyHisSpirit]

If you have ears to hear....


One more problem with making classifications and segragating the lost from the saved (and those somewhere in between?), and this should become obvious to all, is that your whole character CANNOT hide this judgment from others.


You CANNOT prevent yourself from showing your judgmental (BAD, BAD, BAD) attitude towards those who need.... who need what????.... ANSWER: NOT Judgment attitudes from sinners who are no better than they.

By classifying people, which apparently you cannot help yourself because you still think yourself BETTER than others.... it sends a VERY STRONG signal to others how superior you act... and they run away from you.

Why? Because they have enough bad times in the world with whatever they are dealing with. They don't need anymore of your own, no matter how hard you try to hide it. It is there.

Also, if you try... (NOTE this word!)... try to show great love and mercy... (because you are so caring, right?)... your efforts are NATURAL.

Your soul efforts to show love and mercy, are worthless rags.

Only a life transformed in truth by GOD's Love to you, the worthless sinner, who is totally aware of his/her own sinful problem, will ever be able to testify of God's wonderful love... in Truth and Spirit.

[holo]

Salvation is more than getting to heaven when you die. Jesus IS my righteousness, so that's not an issue. I receive him by faith. I am free to make choices every day though, which make matters better or worse. Jesus seemed to imply that the kingdom of God is in us and around us, and I guess we can make more or less use of our citizenship there. And yes, sometimes it takes something, usually our pride.

[Adriana]

is there any truth to this?


The merit for Salvation is sth we need to conquer little by little, every day in our lives.:bow:

The Salvation is the result of our actions in this world. And it happens only once.

[Watergirl]

is there any truth to this?

Yes. Once you're saved, you're saved.

You might be able to break your communion with Christ, but you can never break your union with Christ.

[ephraimanesti]

"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, THE LAST STATE HAS BECOME WORSE FOR THEM THEN THE FIRST. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them."(2 Peter 2:20, 21)

"Now the just shall live by faith; but IF ANY ONE DRAWS BACK, MY SOUL HAS NO PLEASURE IN HIM."(Hebrews 10:38)

"But Jesus said to him, "No one, having put his hand to the plow, and looking back, IS FIT FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD."(Luke 9:62)

"But now after you have known God, or rather are known by God, how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I AM AFRAID FOR YOU, LEST I HAVE LABORED FOR YOU IN VAIN."(Galatians 4:9-11)

"You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? IT IS THEN GOOD FOR NOTHING BUT TO BE THROWN OUT AND TRAMPLED UNDERFOOT BY MEN."(Matthew 5:13)

ETC., ETC., ETC.

WE ARE ONLY AS "SAVED" AS WE CHOOSE TO BE at any given moment, and our Lord warns us: "WATCH THEREFORE, FOR YOU DO NOT KNOW WHEN THE MASTER OF THE HOUSE IS COMING -- IN THE EVENING, AT MIDNIGHT, AT THE CROWING OF THE ROOSTER, OR IN THE MORNING--LEST, COMING SUDDENLY, HE FIND YOU SLEEPING. AND WHAT I SAY TO YOU, I SAY TO ALL: WATCH!"(MARK 13:35-37) He also warns what the consequence of not watching entails: "AND CAST THE UNPROFITABLE SERVANT INTO THE OUTER DARKNESS. THERE WILL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH."(Matthew 25:30)


IN CHRIST,
ephraim

[heymikey80]

is there any truth to this?
Yes, there is a powerful truth to this, that God keeps those whom He says are justified (cf. Rom 8:28-eoc). But don't think people can't be deceived into believing a lie with such a statement. Lots of people think they're justified by saying the right thing, being with the right people, living a certain way, or calling Jesus "Lord", or saying they rely on Jesus -- without relying on Him. There's "just talk", and there's actual reliance.

None of those other things save you. Jesus Christ saves. So relying on these other things didn't get them "Once saved" in the first place.

[snoochface]

If I am understanding correctly, those who do NOT believe in "once saved always saved" believe that we may sin, and we may fail, and God's grace will cover us in those times as long as our heart is still with him? As long as we still have the desire to serve him and do his will? But if we "become complacent" and stop thinking of God, stop living as Christians, back-slide into a worldly lifestyle, then we have lost our salvation?

I'm looking for clarification and more specifics on how, and when, exactly (or as exact as you can get with examples) you feel the scripture tells us salvation is lost.

Do you believe people can be saved over and over again? Someone is saved as a teenager, backslides into a worldly or sinful lifestyle in college and loses salvation, has a coming back to Christ in their 20's and is saved again, has a mid-life crisis in their 40's and loses salvation, realizes the error of his ways in his 60's and is saved again?

I'm not being facetious or sarcastic, not trying to debate -- I really want to know if that's what you think.

I'm asking because I think the whole point of salvation is that it's a gift from God that we receive, and once we've received it, unless we make a conscious choice to give it back, it can't be lost. By conscious choice, I don't mean backsliding or falling into a sinful state again. I mean someone consciously saying, "I no longer believe and do not consider myself to be a Christian anymore." It's like someone giving you a tie for Christmas - it's your tie unless you decide you don't want it anymore and give it back to the person who gave it to you.

So if those who don't believe in "once saved always saved" could provide some clarification on your viewpoint, I'd really appreciate it. :)

[holo]

We're born again, and it would take more than sin or lousy works to change that. I'm God's child by family ties, not works, emotions or intentions.

[GregoryTurner]

Salvation can be lost.

[snoochface]

If I am understanding correctly, those who do NOT believe in "once saved always saved" believe that we may sin, and we may fail, and God's grace will cover us in those times as long as our heart is still with him? As long as we still have the desire to serve him and do his will? But if we "become complacent" and stop thinking of God, stop living as Christians, back-slide into a worldly lifestyle, then we have lost our salvation?

I'm looking for clarification and more specifics on how, and when, exactly (or as exact as you can get with examples) you feel the scripture tells us salvation is lost.

Do you believe people can be saved over and over again? Someone is saved as a teenager, backslides into a worldly or sinful lifestyle in college and loses salvation, has a coming back to Christ in their 20's and is saved again, has a mid-life crisis in their 40's and loses salvation, realizes the error of his ways in his 60's and is saved again?

I'm not being facetious or sarcastic, not trying to debate -- I really want to know if that's what you think.

I'm asking because I think the whole point of salvation is that it's a gift from God that we receive, and once we've received it, unless we make a conscious choice to give it back, it can't be lost. By conscious choice, I don't mean backsliding or falling into a sinful state again. I mean someone consciously saying, "I no longer believe and do not consider myself to be a Christian anymore." It's like someone giving you a tie for Christmas - it's your tie unless you decide you don't want it anymore and give it back to the person who gave it to you.

So if those who don't believe in "once saved always saved" could provide some clarification on your viewpoint, I'd really appreciate it. :)
So, anyone want to take a stab at this?

[romans324]

I do not believe in a once saved, always saved but yet I do, let me explain. This liine can be used on both sides of the fence. For satan it gives an individual a false salvation and then enforcing that false salvation wwith this line. Where as a true believer is saved will desire to serve the Lord and have resepct for Him.
example:
Someone goes to church hears the message of salvation says hey I need insurance for my soul and says the "sinners prayer" then continues in sin and is conforted. But thier mind set is once saved always saved and they continue to sin believing Christ will save them from the sins they embrace. This is false conversion and therefore the meaning of once saved always saved is used improperly.

Now another indivuals talks to someone about they are told about the love of God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit and so on. Thier heart ( which is inwardly that no man sees) excepts this message. And they say "a sinner's prayer" then continue to sin. However this indivual finds it harder to sin then before salvation began. The only way they even have peace is when they confess when they sin and try to push sin away. Over time this individual will discover that even if they allow the flesh to drift away from God thier heart pulls nearer to the Lord.
Hewbrews 6:4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[b (http://bibleresources.bible.com/passagesearchresults.php?passage1=Hebrews+6&version=31#fen-NIV-30035b)]to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
I hope this helps!

[snoochface]

Romans324, that's pretty much how I view it too, if I'm understanding you correctly. It's not a matter of losing your salvation if you are truly saved. It's more a matter of someone who is truly saved not being able to lose their salvation because the Holy Spirit remains in them and keeps tugging at their heart. Someone who "loses" their salvation, so to speak, in the sense of walking away from Christianity and consciously making the decision to turn against God, was not truly saved in the first place.

[mom_one]

yes I do believe in once saved always saved .I am 100 percent saved !!!!!!!!

[snoochface]

I'm finding it interesting that no one who does not believe in once-saved-always-saved feels like they can answer my questions. Is it that ambiguous a doctrine?

[Elijah2]

I'm finding it interesting that no one who does not believe in once-saved-always-saved feels like they can answer my questions. Is it that ambiguous a doctrine?
YEP, it sure is. And the same statement that Satan can't touch you.

[snoochface]

YEP, it sure is. And the same statement that Satan can't touch you.
So since you don't believe once-saved-always-saved, can you give me your thoughts on my questions? I'm not saying they have to be right, or dead-on, or that I'll even agree with them, but I am very interested to hear the opinion of someone on your side of the issue.

[Dyin2live]

i believe that if ur really saved, whenever u sin ul feel real bad and u wont feel good untill u confess it to the Lord. (thats how i am at least.)

but if ur not saved ull sin and sin and feel no remorse and just because u prayed the sinners prayer u think u are saved. These people hav not really been enlightended. They are of the world and dont really want to be saved.

But for us that have been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift, theyl feel remorse whenever they sin and theyll always want to pray to God at least once or twice a day. Theyl try to resist temptation and help others. These people are saved and can never be taken from the Lord because they are dependant on Him and truly love Him more than nething. When no one else is there for them the Lord always is. This is how i feel and even tho I sin I feel remorse and sadness and i need frogiveness to go on. U want to know God more and more and u always want to seek Him. This is how i feel and I believe u are truly saved and u are a child of God if u are like this. ...........
..........wow i think the Holy spirit helped me give u guys this message.. I feel as if God is talking thru me..kinda cool:holy:.

Anyway God Bless u all
and read this message all it will help u get ur facts straight. This message is the truth. IM pretty sure God is using me to rite this.
Keep seeking Him and praising and worshipping him and obeying Him because this pleases Him. If u love God obey his commands. Because if u love Him U will want to please Him.

God is always with u brothers and sisters. Amen MAY HE COME SOON!!!

[Elijah2]

i believe that if ur really saved, whenever u sin ul feel real bad and u wont feel good untill u confess it to the Lord. (thats how i am at least.)

but if ur not saved ull sin and sin and feel no remorse and just because u prayed the sinners prayer u think u are saved. These people hav not really been enlightended. They are of the world and dont really want to be saved.

But for us that have been enlightened and tasted the heavenly gift, theyl feel remorse whenever they sin and theyll always want to pray to God at least once or twice a day. Theyl try to resist temptation and help others. These people are saved and can never be taken from the Lord because they are dependant on Him and truly love Him more than nething. When no one else is there for them the Lord always is. This is how i feel and even tho I sin I feel remorse and sadness and i need frogiveness to go on. U want to know God more and more and u always want to seek Him. This is how i feel and I believe u are truly saved and u are a child of God if u are like this. ...........
..........wow i think the Holy spirit helped me give u guys this message.. I feel as if God is talking thru me..kinda cool:holy:.

Anyway God Bless u all
and read this message all it will help u get ur facts straight. This message is the truth. IM pretty sure God is using me to rite this.
Keep seeking Him and praising and worshipping him and obeying Him because this pleases Him. If u love God obey his commands. Because if u love Him U will want to please Him.

God is always with u brothers and sisters. Amen MAY HE COME SOON!!!
AMEN....It won't be long!!!

[snoochface]

Okay... I think the lack of response is, in itself, a response. Thanks.

[MikeMcK]

is there any truth to this?Yes, it is true. It is God's promise to us.

It is often said that the person who believes in OSAS believes that he has a lisence to sin, but that isn't true, because the person who is saved, who has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit no longer has the desire to serve sin in the first place. If someone believes that OSAS is an excuse to sin, then that person most likely is a false convert and was never saved to begin with.

Let me offer you seven reasons why a saved person can't be lost:

1. Nothing can separate you from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus your Lord.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)Neither death nor anything that happens after death, or anything that happens while you're living can separate you from God's love. If there were no other verse in the Bible that deals with eternal security, this one covers the base.


2. When you are saved, you are made perfect forever.

For by one offering He [Jesus] hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14)When Jesus died on the cross, He saved you forever. Jesus offered one sacrifice for sin forever. If you ever lost your salvation, in order for you to be saved again, Jesus would have to die again. By one offering He has perfected forever those who were sanctified.


3. Our Lord always finishes what He begins.

Being confident of this very thing, that He [God] which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6)Let me tell you what the Holy Spirit of God does for your salvation. First, He convicted you of sin. Second, He converted you. And the Convictor and the Converter is also the Completer. If God fails to finish what He's begun God has failed and He cannot fail.


4. You are predestined to be like Jesus.

For whom He [God] did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:29)God saw you before this world was put in space. He saw you repent of your sin and ask Jesus to save you. And when God saw that, not only did He foreknow it, but also He predestinated it. If it is settled in eternity how can it be undone in time?


5. You are in Christ.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)You are in Christ just like Noah was in the ark. The ark was a picture of Jesus and when Noah went into that ark God shut the door. Noah may have fallen down a lot of times in that ark, but he never fell out of it. Your security is not in a place, it is in a Person and His name is Jesus. And if you're in Jesus, you're secure and if you're not in Jesus you're not secure.


6. You already have eternal life.

Heareth My word, and believeth on him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24)Everlasting life is not something you get when you die. Everlasting life is something you get when you receive Jesus. If I have everlasting life, when can it end? Suppose I had it 10 years and it ended. Did I have everlasting life? No, I had a 10-year life. Whatever you have, if you ever lose it, whatever it was it wasn't everlasting.


7. The Lord Jesus Christ is ever interceding for you.

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given Me; for they are Thine. (John 17:9)Jesus also prayed: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil...Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word" (John 17:15, 20). Say your name in that verse because Jesus prayed for you! Has Jesus ever prayed a prayer that wasn't answered? No, not one (see John 11:42 and Hebrews 7:25).

[MikeMcK]

double post

[GregoryTurner]

One very important thing... God loves even the sinners that do not know Him. Nothing can separate them from the love of God either, except themselves.

[Dyin2live]

Yes, it is true. It is God's promise to us.

It is often said that the person who believes in OSAS believes that he has a lisence to sin, but that isn't true, because the person who is saved, who has been regenerated by the Holy Spirit no longer has the desire to serve sin in the first place. If someone believes that OSAS is an excuse to sin, then that person most likely is a false convert and was never saved to begin with.

Let me offer you seven reasons why a saved person can't be lost:

1. Nothing can separate you from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus your Lord.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)Neither death nor anything that happens after death, or anything that happens while you're living can separate you from God's love. If there were no other verse in the Bible that deals with eternal security, this one covers the base.


2. When you are saved, you are made perfect forever.

For by one offering He [Jesus] hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14)When Jesus died on the cross, He saved you forever. Jesus offered one sacrifice for sin forever. If you ever lost your salvation, in order for you to be saved again, Jesus would have to die again. By one offering He has perfected forever those who were sanctified.


3. Our Lord always finishes what He begins.

Being confident of this very thing, that He [God] which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6)Let me tell you what the Holy Spirit of God does for your salvation. First, He convicted you of sin. Second, He converted you. And the Convictor and the Converter is also the Completer. If God fails to finish what He's begun God has failed and He cannot fail.


4. You are predestined to be like Jesus.

For whom He [God] did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:29)God saw you before this world was put in space. He saw you repent of your sin and ask Jesus to save you. And when God saw that, not only did He foreknow it, but also He predestinated it. If it is settled in eternity how can it be undone in time?


5. You are in Christ.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)You are in Christ just like Noah was in the ark. The ark was a picture of Jesus and when Noah went into that ark God shut the door. Noah may have fallen down a lot of times in that ark, but he never fell out of it. Your security is not in a place, it is in a Person and His name is Jesus. And if you're in Jesus, you're secure and if you're not in Jesus you're not secure.


6. You already have eternal life.

Heareth My word, and believeth on him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24)Everlasting life is not something you get when you die. Everlasting life is something you get when you receive Jesus. If I have everlasting life, when can it end? Suppose I had it 10 years and it ended. Did I have everlasting life? No, I had a 10-year life. Whatever you have, if you ever lose it, whatever it was it wasn't everlasting.


7. The Lord Jesus Christ is ever interceding for you.

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given Me; for they are Thine. (John 17:9)Jesus also prayed: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil...Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word" (John 17:15, 20). Say your name in that verse because Jesus prayed for you! Has Jesus ever prayed a prayer that wasn't answered? No, not one (see John 11:42 and Hebrews 7:25).

thanks Mike u made a great and long post. I can tell u put alot of time into it and let me tell u, it really helped me out alot!!! Now i No that the only way we cant be saved is if we like deny Jesus or completely change our religion and lose belief in Him. Thanks alot
God bless

[Elijah2]

So since you don't believe once-saved-always-saved, can you give me your thoughts on my questions? I'm not saying they have to be right, or dead-on, or that I'll even agree with them, but I am very interested to hear the opinion of someone on your side of the issue.
Hi Smoothface,

I thought I had answer your question, and I didn't realise that you want some concrete evidence of this doctrinal belief, which is probably hard to produce, because most things like this has ascertained from personal experience, and discernment.

Many such people who quote this, continue to sin, by working in the grey areas between white and black.

Now in Mark 3:28, it says, "Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they many utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemantion."

Now if a Christian uses His Name in vain, and they are saved, then are they still saved after using His Name in vain?

Now if a Christian is convicted of a sin and continues to sin, and they are saved, then are they still saved while continuing to sin?

Now if a Christian is involved in being involved with a pyramid selling scheme, which is illegal, and they change the name for legal reasons, and they know that what they are involved in is illegal and is sin, and they are saved, then are they still saved while they continue to be involved in an illegal selling and sinning within the Body of Christ.

Now, these are only a few of my personal experiences of what I believe that those people believe that once saved---always saved---even though they continue to sin.

[Reyanah]

You have to walk in love and forgiveness otherwise you cant get forgiveness for your sins....Jesus said love the Lord your God with all your heart mind soul and strength and love your neighbor as yourslef. We need to abide in Him and His words in us and have a daily relationship with him in order to grow. Getting saved and sitting on s tump waiting for heaven....doesn't do much.

[bigdAddyweAve423]

I feel that if you confess faith in Christ & give your life over to Him, wholeheartedly; you wouldnt want to do the things you used to do, with Christ living in you.

So, I would have to say if you confess Christ as your Lord & Savior & you still want to do the things you used to do, I would be asking if you really accepted Him at all. Paul said in 2 Corinthians 5:17 - "Therefore, if anyone is in Chirst, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new hs come."

When you become a Christian, you now longer do the things you used to do, cause you are no longer who you used to be.

With that being said, God's Grace is sufficient. Being a Christian we are still subject to temptation & sin. Given what I just said above, If you are a Christian & you sin, where do you draw the line???

I think it is a matter of the Life you live, we all sin. So I think it really come down to the Life you live & the Fruit you bear.

I dont have the answers, just one man's opinion. Hope this helps, God Bless.

[Dace]

wow I just read this thread through and i'm still none the wiser. I think ultimately God is the only one who knows if a person is saved or not, so I guess we should just leave that to Him.

[Rafael]

2Pe 1:10 So, dear brothers and sisters, work hard to prove that you really are among those God has called and chosen. Doing this, you will never stumble or fall away.

Pr 1:29 For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD: 30 They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof. 31 Therefore shall they eat of the fruit of their own way, and be filled with their own devices.

Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Joshua (NLT) 24:15 ¶ But if you are unwilling to serve the LORD, then choose today whom you will serve. Would you prefer the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates? Or will it be the gods of the Amorites in whose land you now live? But as for me and my family, we will serve the LORD."

De 30:19 "Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, that you and your descendants might live!

De (NLT) 30:19 "Today I have given you the choice between life and death, between blessings and curses. I call on heaven and earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you would choose life, that you and your descendants might live! 20 Choose to love the LORD your God and to obey him and commit yourself to him, for he is your life. Then you will live long in the land the LORD swore to give your ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."

Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

2 Peter 2:9 ¶ The Lord isn’t really being slow about his promise to return, as some people think. No, he is being patient for your sake. He does not want anyone to perish, so he is giving more time for everyone to repent.

[heymikey80]

wow I just read this thread through and i'm still none the wiser. I think ultimately God is the only one who knows if a person is saved or not, so I guess we should just leave that to Him.
He does say that you can know you have eternal life.

I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:18

[holderz]

is there any truth to this?

Hi, Dyin2live yes thats true once your saved (according to the Word of God not me)
you can never lose your salvation

as it is the work of God and as it says in his word clearly, his work is perfect
Deu 32:4 "The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.

once you have believed in Christ you receive eternal life
Joh 3:15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Joh 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, (you cant lose it again) and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

No work of the hand on man or any work for that matter, is strong enough to break Gods work.
Rom 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers,
Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.


Plus personal sin of the believer has no effect on your salvation either since Jesus Christ sorted that problem at the cross (past, present & future) all was dealt with & finished (Joh 3:15-18, Col 2:13-14)

Dyin2live, a cool area of doctrine to study to get you clear on this, is the doctrine of Soteriology (the doctrines of salvation) I have some cool links on this, if you would like any, just say so and I will hook you up.

regards


Question for all of you who say you can lose salvation, if Gods work is perfert & he is eternal, how can God who is all powerful, who never makes a wrong choice, whos work never fails, devise something that can be unperfect & broken by the power of a weak human being??

[Dyin2live]

i beleiev you

[JPH]

is there any truth to this?
When you were forgiven did JESUS forgive you of all of your sins or just a few.All of them right.Sins of your past present and future.All of your sins were forgiven.
We know that one sin can send you to Hell and christians we still sin.So hopefully you dont forget to confess or repent of every sin every day so you can be "saved again."Oh yeah Jesus said you must be born again and again and again.silly right?
Jesus died for all of my sins past present and future because all of our sins were future sins 2000 years ago when he died.
We as believers are no longer under the law and commandments.He did away with that nailing it to the tree.Our judjment is past.He paid our debt in full not just part way.
I work in a prison and I look at it this way, we were found guilty of our crime,Jesus paid our debt and we were set free.WE ARE NOT ON PROBATION OR PAROLE .SO THE NEXT TIME WE MESS UP WE ARE BACK IN PRISON.
I was in bondage to a legalistic church that taught you can lose your salvation if you are not careful.So I lived a fearful stressed out christian life.JESUSis holding on to you not you holding on to him.You have no strenth or ability to do that on your own.
Salvation is putting your complete trust in him and his word.
I recommend books about GRACE.Study the topic and I think you will be relieved with what you find and you will grow in your appreciation and thankfulness for the salvation Jesus purchased for you.I doubt you will turn up your nose atGOD and run to sin.Those that do that without remorse guilt and repentance were perhaps not saved to begin with.
If you want i will look up scriptures for you.
PEACE!
Fear not ,he the SON sets free is free indeed!
J

[Dyin2live]

When you were forgiven did JESUS forgive you of all of your sins or just a few.All of them right.Sins of your past present and future.All of your sins were forgiven.
We know that one sin can send you to Hell and christians we still sin.So hopefully you dont forget to confess or repent of every sin every day so you can be "saved again."Oh yeah Jesus said you must be born again and again and again.silly right?
Jesus died for all of my sins past present and future because all of our sins were future sins 2000 years ago when he died.
We as believers are no longer under the law and commandments.He did away with that nailing it to the tree.Our judjment is past.He paid our debt in full not just part way.
I work in a prison and I look at it this way, we were found guilty of our crime,Jesus paid our debt and we were set free.WE ARE NOT ON PROBATION OR PAROLE .SO THE NEXT TIME WE MESS UP WE ARE BACK IN PRISON.
I was in bondage to a legalistic church that taught you can lose your salvation if you are not careful.So I lived a fearful stressed out christian life.JESUSis holding on to you not you holding on to him.You have no strenth or ability to do that on your own.
Salvation is putting your complete trust in him and his word.
I recommend books about GRACE.Study the topic and I think you will be relieved with what you find and you will grow in your appreciation and thankfulness for the salvation Jesus purchased for you.I doubt you will turn up your nose atGOD and run to sin.Those that do that without remorse guilt and repentance were perhaps not saved to begin with.
If you want i will look up scriptures for you.
PEACE!
Fear not ,he the SON sets free is free indeed!
J

so ur saying when we sin, we are still saved? I thought we hav to confess everytime we mess up or else we are not saved....
..:cry: this makes more sense to me.

And i feel remorse and sorrow and i try to repent and sanctify myself of habitual sins from before i was saved.

[JPH]

so ur saying when we sin, we are still saved? I thought we hav to confess everytime we mess up or else we are not saved....
..:cry: this makes more sense to me.

And i feel remorse and sorrow and i try to repent and sanctify myself of habitual sins from before i was saved.
We all still sin,even as believers but or attitude twd sin is different than before.We dont enjoy it now,we feel convicted after,and we are motivated to change.As an unbeliever we sinned and didnt care and took pleasure in it.But logically ,if one sin is as bad as another in GODS eyes andd one "little" sin can send us to hell just like a "bad" one then we would need to confess every sin we comitt.I cant keep track of them all so if i fgt to confess one i would be doomed. BUT,That is the good news that Jesus died for every single one of our sins.We are now seen as righteous inGods eyes.It is good to confess though because its like saying you are sorry to a friend after you did something wrong.It keeps your relationship clean and fresh.
One more thing.We have been saved by GRACE thru Faith.Not by works.In other words we couldnt do anything to earn our salvation.So why do people think it is up to our own strength and effort to "stay saved".Jesus saved us and he will keep us.
Our sin affects our relationship with God but not our standing as his child.
PEACE!!! J

[holderz]

so ur saying when we sin, we are still saved? I thought we hav to confess everytime we mess up or else we are not saved....
..:cry: this makes more sense to me.

And i feel remorse and sorrow and i try to repent and sanctify myself of habitual sins from before i was saved.

Hi Dyin2live, remember what i quoted in my first post on this thread, once you believed in Christ, your eternally sealed (rom 8:38-39) & nothing can break that,

But when you sin you lose fellowship with God & filling of the spirit, which is your spiritual power source & guidance to live the spiritual life. all you do to regain this is simple (1john 1:9)

1John 1:9 - name & site that sin or sins to the father in prayer
Phil 3:13 - forget it and keep on moving

This is a perfect illustration of what am talking - the status of the born again believer. (click link to view diagram)

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n51/NUWAVONIC/RBTHIEME-DIAGRAM.jpg

PM me if you would like a link to this digital book, it will help you clear up this issue.

regards

[holo]

But when you sin you lose fellowship with God & filling of the spiritWhoa now...

That sounds, well, untrue. We don't lose fellowship with the Lord. The Spirit is in us and around us and with us. If/when we sin, we have a lawyer, a spokesperson - Christ himself.

Jesus is your lawyer, and he doesn't defend you because you've done everything right, but because you're his, because he loves you. And if Jesus is your lawyer you'll win the case :)

[holderz]

Whoa now...

That sounds, well, untrue. We don't lose fellowship with the Lord. The Spirit is in us and around us and with us. If/when we sin, we have a lawyer, a spokesperson - Christ himself.

Jesus is your lawyer, and he doesn't defend you because you've done everything right, but because you're his, because he loves you. And if Jesus is your lawyer you'll win the case :)

Ok let me put it another way, you lose the ability temporally, to have fellowship with God as the filling of the spirit is the ONLY way to have fellowship with him,
If there is another way please tell me & give me chapter and verse in the new testament.

here are 2 of the 7 different ministries of God the holy spirit
1. Indwell-ment - eternal (Rom 8:38-39)
2. The filling of the spirit – temporary (which gives you the ability to learn his plan, have fellowship with God in time & the power to live the spiritual life) (Eph 5:16/5:18/Joh 4:24)


When you sin, you don’t lose the indwelling of God the Holy Spirit (which sealed you at salvation), as you are his temple (1Con 3:16/1Con 6:19-20).
As you mentioned he is in us.

you through your own decision (free will) have simply choose to operate in the old man (the sin nature) rather than operate under the filling of God The Holy Spirit which like the word of God says is the only way to have fellowship with him in time.
Paul kinda talks about it in Eph 4.

if we could not lose fellowship with him in time,
why would God command is in Eph 5:18 to be filled with the spirit?
And why would God say in passages like
Eph 5:16 walk by means of the spirit and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh?

and its says in Joh 4:24
Joh 4:24 God is spirit, and those who worship him must(this is a command) worship in spirit (the filling of God the Holy Spirit) and truth (the Word of God)."

& 1 John 1:9 is how we get back in fellowship with him via naming the sin or sins only to him in prayer.

when concluding things doctrinal, God commands us to have fellowship with him but he has given us the free will to choose either way.

regards

[holo]

I don't see how that implies that sin somehow cuts us off from fellowship with the Lord...

[heymikey80]

Whoa now...

That sounds, well, untrue. We don't lose fellowship with the Lord. The Spirit is in us and around us and with us. If/when we sin, we have a lawyer, a spokesperson - Christ himself.

Jesus is your lawyer, and he doesn't defend you because you've done everything right, but because you're his, because he loves you. And if Jesus is your lawyer you'll win the case :)
I'd agree with this in thinking about my salvation, but the confidence that I have and the awareness that I have about my salvation isn't simply thinking. It seems dependent on things I do.
And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says "I know him" but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him: whoever says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked. 1 Jn 2:3-6
They don't permanently bar my fellowship, either, but are restored on confession and repentance -- which are brought by the Spirit of God into the heart of the sinner. But they do affect my side of fellowship with God.

[JPH]

I don't see how that implies that sin somehow cuts us off from fellowship with the Lord...
Perhaps it is like when Adam and Eve sinned they hid from God. Our status as his child doesnt change but often mans first response after sin is not repentance.Hopefully it does come quickly but we feel guilty,ashamed,unworthy,and sometimes it takes time (hours or days)to go to God ,confess and realize his mercy and fiorgiveness.God does not turn from us but we "hide "from him.In that sense we are out of fellowship with the Lord.
Peace!
j

[holo]

Perhaps it is like when Adam and Eve sinned they hid from God. Our status as his child doesnt change but often mans first response after sin is not repentance.Hopefully it does come quickly but we feel guilty,ashamed,unworthy,and sometimes it takes time (hours or days)to go to God ,confess and realize his mercy and fiorgiveness.God does not turn from us but we "hide "from him.In that sense we are out of fellowship with the Lord.
Peace!
jExactly. God didn't leave them, but they tried to hide from him because they were afraid and ashamed. They should've run directly to him instead :)

[harsum]

I beleive in the once saved always saved statemnet.Once you are born again you are given eternal life...you are saved from the wage of sin...death....whoever that don't give no one the right to use that as an excuse..so to speak....i beleive if a person is trully saved ..born again..than he will always be saved...can a man crawl back into his mothers womb and be born again?no once you are saved in Jesus christ...truely saved...than you are always saved...he will never leave you nor forsake you..once a good work is started in us he will perform it until the end.we are sinners saved by gace.ephesians 2:8 "for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves it is a gift of god.God has given us the gift of salvastion...do you honestly beleive if you make mistakes,,,he will take that away from you?i also beleive salvation is not a one time deal.in the sence that when you asked jesus into your heart that was it....let me explain..Justification..sanctifiocation and glorification the way i understand it.
Justification-past tense- saved Immediatly from sin's penalty...death..you accepted the lord and beleived on him..what he did on the cross.immediatly you are saved from death. you are given the gift of eternal life.
sanctification-present tense-you are being saved progressively from sin's power.
glorification-future sense- saved ultimately from sins presence.
but the ultimate question once saved always saved? i beleive if one was truely saved..than yes always saved..
people say that if you beleive this statement than thats why people continue sinning. we all sin and continue to sin after being saved.....it is the holy spirit that makes manifest the sins that so easily beset us.. and works it out of our lives... this is a life long process....god is conforming us into his image...some sins take longer to get rid of out of our lives than others....but he started a work in us and will finish it to the end.we are saved from the penalty of sin which is death.