Are Nazarenes and Catholics Alike in Doctrine?

[MakeItSo]

It was said by a Nazarene that our beliefs and practices are like Catholism.

Would you agree to this statement?

If so, then please list doctrines practiced by Nazarenes that mirror Catholism.

I have never heard such a thing until I came onto this board.

I would like those who are Nazarenes who know and understand our belief in the Holy Bible and our church doctrine to share your thoughts about a member's statement that Nazarenes and Catholics are more "alike" than not and discuss Biblically how this statement is true or false.

Thank you!

[silentpoet]

I don't know of anything super similar. I have only been a Nazarene for a year and have missed a few services, but I have never seen us pray to Jesus' mom. I have not seen us talking about Benedict's great authority over us. I mean we are both Christian, but I don't see much similarity beyond the basic tenants of our Faith.

[MakeItSo]

I don't know of anything super similar. I have only been a Nazarene for a year and have missed a few services, but I have never seen us pray to Jesus' mom. I have not seen us talking about Benedict's great authority over us. I mean we are both Christian, but I don't see much similarity beyond the basic tenants of our Faith.


Thank you for your honesty. I don't think they are similar in the least but according to some Nazarenes that is an "opinion" not an absolute fact. I guess I am looking for confirmation that I'm not in the Twilight Zone.

God Bless!

[vicarius]

I think you are referring to a comment from another string.

As far as Nazarenes and Catholics not being the same...well, we're far more alike that we are different, that's for sure.
I believe this is an accurate statement and it does not imply that we are the same.

The theological lineage of the Church of the Nazarene follows:

Roman Catholic
+Church in/of England (Anglican)
++Methodist movement (John & Charles Wesley)
+++Wesleyan Holiness movement (gave rise to Salvation Army, Wesleyan, Free Methodist, Nazarene)

If I understand the history of the church correctly, none of the changes in this lineage were due to a rejection of Roman Catholic orthodoxy. Here is a very brief summary.

1. The Anglican Church separated from the RC for political reasons. The King of England did not want to recognize the Popes authority, because the Pope wouldn’t allow the King to divorce. The King by declaring that the church in his domain was under his authority and independent from Rome allowed him to divorce. Other than liberalizing divorce, there was no rejection, of Roman Catholic theology.

2. The Methodist movement, led by John & Charles Wesley was not a rejection of the Anglican Church, but was instead a movement that resulted from their attempt to pursue Christian piety and to minister to the poor; these values were consistent with the doctrines of the AC and RC. This movement led to attempts to reform some practices within the AC that were inconsistent with these principles. While some of John Wesley’s followers choose to serve outside the authority of the AC, Wesley himself did not advocate separation and remained an Anglican Priest throughout his life.

3. The Holiness movement also came from a pursuit of piety and advocacy for the poor and disadvantaged. It rose primarily among a variety of Methodist groups in existence at the time and the movement was ecumenical in nature, inviting people of other theological traditions to pursue holiness. The movement did not reject the theology of its parent groups, but merely emphasized the doctrine of holiness.

The Nazarene church and the RC accept both the Nicene and Apostles Creeds which are core doctrinal statements within Christian orthodoxy. The Nazarene hymnal does replace “catholic” with “universal” mainly because most people today don’t understand that “catholic (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=catholic)” means “universal ” and, unfortunately, there is an undercurrent of anti Roman Catholic sentiment in some sectors of the denomination.


Here are some anecdotes to show the gap between the Roman Catholic and the Church of the Nazarene are not as wide as we sometimes believe.

Annecdote 1. My experiences as a student at Nazarene Colleges.
When I was an undergraduate at a Nazarene college, someone posted anti-Roman Catholic propaganda throughout the campus, and placed leaflets under windshield wipers on cars that were parked on campus. Several students found the leaflets and brought them to a class taught by one of the religion professors. We asked him what he thought of the propaganda. He stated that he thought it was sad that Christians would spend so much time bashing each other and we are more alike than different. He concluded the discussion with “there will be a lot of Catholics in heaven who are going to be surprised to see us.”

I took a graduate religion course at another Nazarene college several years later. Most of the students were active Nazarene pastors or Nazarene ministerial students. The class was team taught by a full time professor at the college and a retired General Superintendent in the Church of the Nazarene. One of the assigned texts was a devotional guide written by a Roman Catholic Priest. The professor stated that he wanted us to go through the devotionals because sometimes when we are studying theology, we forget to spend time alone with God. He felt that the devotional guide was an excellent resource to aid us in slowing down and spending necessary quiet time in communion with God. Throughout the discussion, the GS nodded his assent.

At the same school, I don’t remember if it was the same class or not, we also received a brochure advertising a retreat center run by Roman Catholic monks. The retreat center was designed as a place for meditation and prayer. The professor recommended that pastors take advantage of the center and spend some time away in contemplation and prayer. He recommended to the laymen in the class that we encourage our pastors to go and that we should encourage our church boards to pay for the retreat

Annecdote 2. Respect for Pope John Paul II
The Sunday after Pope John Paul II died, during the pastoral prayer our pastor thanked God for the leadership that John Paul II had given to the Roman Catholic Church and the Christian community. He also prayed that God would guide the cardinals as they went through the process of electing a new pope. A Roman Catholic friend who was attending service with us that day expressed gratitude that the pastor would think of and pray for her church.[/quote][quote]

At district assembly the same year, the presiding General Superintendent had complimentary words for John Paul II and expressed hope that the Roman Catholic Church would elect a pope who would continue in John Paul’s footsteps.

Annecdote 3: Common Theology Texts
H. Orton Wiley, founding president of Northwest Nazarene University and three time president of Point Loma (Pasadena) Nazarene University wrote a book on Christian Theology. This book was a primary text used in theology classes in Nazarene colleges for many years.

I know a graduate of a Nazarene college who decided to pursue a second bachelors degree. The closest school that offered the major he wanted to pursue was a catholic school, St. Mary’s. When he went to talk to the registrar they discussed his Christian Theology and Biblical Literature classes. He explained that the primary text was Wiley’s Christian Theology. The registrar responded that she was familiar with the text and that they used it at their school as well. The Roman Catholic college transferred all of the religion and theology credit he had earned from his Nazarene alma mater. She stated that the Nazarene church is well within RC orthodoxy, and is among what they call the “pious” sects.

Years later, in another city, when this man was working at a Nazarene college he met a RC priest. The priest stated that while in seminary he was studying Christian Theology using Wiley’s text. He was amazed at Wiley’s insight and began to study more of Wiley’s life and works. The priest stated that when he realized that Wiley was a protestant, he had a crisis of faith. He realized that this crisis was the result of negative attitudes toward protestants among the congregation where he grew up. Not unlike the negative attitudes I have heard expressed in protestant circles toward Roman Catholics.



My descriptions of experiences that depict similarities may pose some of the following questions. Here are a couple I think may easily be anticipated.

1. If we are alike why don’t we pray to Mary or practice the adoration of the saints?
2. Why don’t we go to a priest for confession?

First of all, we are alike which implies that there are differences as opposed to being the same which would mean there are no differences.

If I understand correctly, the Roman Catholic Church believes the saints, including Mary, because of their obedience to God were blessed with pure hearts while living on earth. Because they were blessed with pure hearts, upon their deaths they went directly to heaven and are present with God, therefore we can offer prayers through the saints to God. My Catholic friends will adamantly deny worshiping the saints, or that the saints can give them salvation. They state categorically that Christ is the object of their worship and the source of their salvation.

If I understand correctly, the Roman Catholic practice of adoration of saints is a means of identifying a spiritual role model. A RC will study a saint, what he or she did and said and use that individual’s example as a role model. The Nazarenes, do something similar, although informally, with its great leaders. The lives and words of John and Charles Wesley, their mother Susanna, Phoebe Palmer, Pheneas Bresee, J.B. Chapman and Uncle Buddy Robinson are among but a few that are often mentioned in Nazarene Church as examples of how we should live our lives in a manner pleasing to God.

The Church of the Nazarene accepts the Lutheran principle of priesthood of all believers. Therefore, we do not need an institutionalized intercessory in the office of priest. We can confess directly to Christ, however, Nazarenes do advocate developing accountability partners. These accountability partners are people to whom we share our intimate struggles and with whom we can pray regarding those struggles and failures. This is basically an informal confessional to a priest who can intercede with God on our behalf. Because of the priesthood of all believers we also do not pray to or through a saint. Again a priest or saint acts as an intercessor with God.

This brings me to another similarity that is expressed differently. The doctrine of Holiness has Roman Catholic roots. The RC recognizes that some people can be so close to God that the Holy Spirit dwells in them. Usually these people are among the clergy or have dedicated themselves to some type of sacrificial service to God and church. They believe this experience is rare and most of us continue struggling against sin our entire lives until the Holy Spirit purifies us after death. The people who recieve spiritual holiness in this life are recognized by the church after they die through beatification and sainthood. Because of the priesthood of all believers, the Church of the Nazarene teaches that holiness is available and attainable by all through the Holy Spirit, not just those who pursue sacred vocations.



Please do not respond to this post by identifying more differences between the Roman Catholic Church and the Church of the Nazarene, the question posed in this thread is “are Nazarenes and Catholics alike in doctrine?” I believe that we are more alike than different, and that the differences stem more from the Church of the Nazarene emphasizing specific components of theology rooted in Roman Catholic tradition than because of Nazarene opposition to specific Roman Catholic practices.

For my Roman Catholic brethren, my apologies if I am in error regarding my understanding of RC doctrine and practices. Please address these errors to me through private message. Wesley’s Forum has become a bit of a free for all lately, and I really don’t want get pulled into another ugly debate.

[vicarius]

I was browsing through the Wesley Center For Applied Theology (http://wesley.nnu.edu/)website today. On the center's homepage there is a call for papers (http://wesley.nnu.edu/wesley_conferences/2007_WPS_Call_for_Papers.PDF) by the Wesleyan Philosophical Society. They are looking for scholarly writings on "Themes in Wesleyan and Catholic Thought."

I'm looking forward to seeing the papers.

[RadicallyTransformedMom]

I can't comment on the Nazarene church but i will say there are alot of simliar beliefs with Catholics and Methodists. I am a Roman Catholic. I spent 3 yrs as a Pastors Secretary and Youth leader at a Methodist church and while there i learned LOTS about their beliefs. The Methodist beliefs are much Closer to the Catholic beliefs than the fundamentalist, evangelical churches out there like the Baptists for example. I dont know how much Nazarened beliefs differ from Methodist though.

[Adammi]

Perhaps in so many words, the emphasis on works in sanctification are very much related to Roman Catholicism.