Is birth control Biblical?

[RaginCajun88]

I’m taking a class at school called controversial issues. The class is a debate format class where you are free to express your opinion and others are free to argue it.

The first topic that the teacher chose to cover is abortion. There are a lot of people who feel that abortion is a morally viable alternative to having to deal with the difficulties of raising a child. I personally do not feel this way. I believe that abortion is murder and should not be tolerated in our society.

The thought of abortion led me to another question. Is any form of birth control morally wrong? By using birth control are we going against what God had originally intended?

Just thought I’d see what you guys think.

[Katakalupto]

Well, I know I am in the minority on this one, but I don't believe in using birth control. I am quiverfull. I fully trust God to open or close my womb as he chooses. I feel that using BC would be going against God's will. But that is just my opinion.

[Andyman_1970]

So then God had no part in creating birth control?

As for is it Biblical.........I'm not aware that there is a Scripture concerning the usage or non usage of birth control as we do today in the year 2006.

[Erinwilcox]

So then God had no part in creating birth control?

.

Just because God allows things to happen or develop does not necessarily mean that He is pleased about them or that He condones them.

[Argent]

I believe life begins at conception, so any form of birthcontro post conception is wrong.

A man and woman should prayerfully pursue God's specific will for them in regard to using other methods of birthcontrol and how many children they should have. Ergo, I don't think that pre-conception birthcontrol is wrong, if the couple feel that it is not God's will for them to become parents at this point in their marriage.

[rainbowpromise]

The Bible clearly tells us to be fruitful and multiply. God told every creature, then Adam & Eve, Noah, and Jacob specifically. In OT passages it tells you that it is an affliction to be childless.
I do not believe that this carries today. First the earth is suffering from the population. Second, there are millions of homeless and parentless children.

Psalm 127 does not tell me to have lots of children, it tells me to treat them as a reward from God and to raise them right so they will be a blessing and I won't be ashamed.

I believe that as a couple, through prayer, God may have children, adoption, fostering, and even birth control. However if any of these are for your personal convenience, don't even bother.
I tried while I was dealing with a sickly child. God gave me twins while I was dealing with hospitals, medications and doctors. I had a plan, but God's was different.

[edb19]

I can only speak for me - I have no problem with birth control (exception being an IUD). For myself, I know my limits and I wouldn't have had the patience for more children (too hot tempered). In my case choosing to practice birth control was appropriate.

edie

[Project 86]

Everyone should be against birth control pills since they can induce abortion.
Does the Birth Control Pill Cause Abortions? - Randy Alcorn (http://www.epm.org/pdf/bcpill.pdf#search=%22Does%20Birth%20Control%20Cause%20Abortions%20by%20Randy%20Alcorn%20pdf%22)

[Erinwilcox]

Personally, I think that it is up to every married couple to decide as God guides their consciences.

[Flynmonkie]

Just because God allows things to happen or develop does not necessarily mean that He is pleased about them or that He condones them.

I had to take birth control to control physical hormone issues I had that eventually led to loss of pregnancy several times. My best friend cannot have children and is allergic to the pregnancy hormone. She finally managed to get through all the red tape, after three lost children to get permission to get her tubes tied. Every pregnancy the baby would die and her life was on the line. I would never want to watch her have to sit and choose between her family and her life again. Thank God we have the science to help her through this.

There is no hard cold answer to this.

For that matter, every time a man and woman (married) have sex even WITHOUT birth control they are committing murder on every egg that is lost or every one that is fertilized and doesn’t take. Good grief!

God is not the author of confusion, however He obviously does allow it. Everything is not inherently bad or evil; it is how and why it is used.

[Erinwilcox]

God is not the author of confusion, however He obviously does allow it. Everything is not inherently bad or evil; it is how and why it is used.

:amen:

[arunma]

I think we can agree that any form of birth control that utilizes an abortifacient is not permissible.

As for non-abortive methods of birth control, I do not see any way in which birth control violates the teachings of God. Obviously there are a few provisions here. Most importantly, couples ought not to use birth control out of a hatred for children, or as a means of otherwise defying the will of the Lord. The Eastern Orthodox Church has a most interesting practice regarding birth control. EO Christians have spiritual fathers who provide them with advice and counsel on living in accordance with God's will. When a couple wishes to use birth control, they are required to first consult their spiritual father and receive his permission (which he is free to deny, if he believes that they seek birth control for the wrong reasons). In effect, the private affairs of the married couple are opened up to the church. And I think this is fitting, since the church is the visible manifestation of God's kingdom on earth.

I'm not sure how this practice could be adopted in Protestant denominations. But I think it seems like a great way to deal with the issue of birth control.

[HypoTypoSis]

Is any form of birth control morally wrong?

1 Corinthians 7:5, "Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency."

Going by a strict reading of your question's use of the word, 'any', and based upon the above verse the obvious answer, no, would have to be concluded.

The means, however, is a totally different matter and opens up all sorts of arguable issues.

As to the most reprehensible form of birth control, abortion, which technically is a crime against humanity, its late 19th and early 20th Century purpose, i.e. the penultimate goal of establishing a Master Race by the gradual elimination of all other races (referred to as 'stock' and used in the same sense of the term, livestock), has not changed even in the least despite the fact the 'advertising' has been repackaged to allow the illusion of choice when, in fact, the real choice is not meant to be for those opting personally for birth control (ala abortion) but rather, the real choice is still in the hands of those whose desire it is to choose who to weed out (their terminolgy) as the less desirable substandard elements of mankind.

Early on the objective was to weed out the blacks, the Irish, the Italians, the poor, the immigrants, those on some form of subsistence (ala welfare). Indeed, Planned Parenthood's founder was not only a collaborator with the Nazi's in their plan for a Master Race they actually sought her out seeking her advice. In a letter (referenced in one of her own books) from one of Hitler's close assistants it is noted that Hitler regarded her works as his bible and kept it always on his night table.*

Scripture teaches us the poor more readily accept the gospel, perhaps because they have far less to lose than the riches the wealthy's hearts hold so dear.

If the poor and unwanted are weeded out and, later on towards the end times, the Jews and the Christians (those that refuse to accept the Mark) then what is left but the Master Race where the entire world can be one big happy family living together in one world under one government with only one worldy religion?

It is said that everything God does Satan mirror image mimics. Is not this Master Race one world concept the big mimic, the last really big lie?

For all their touted 'humanitarian' activities Planned Parenthood pushes a brainwashed version of abortion as an alternative to 'ruining one's life' by having 'unwanted' children thereby elevating the selfishness of self.

As to birth control pills, etc they are the largest dispensers of what invariably always ends up being in one form or another poisonous for the mother. This being the Planned Parenthood's founder, Margaret Sanger's, second prong of attack. The first being to prevent the propogation of the 'unwanted' less than Master Race quality beings and, second, eliminating the source of the propogation, i.e. the mother.*

Compare the figures from the early 1900's to present of the growth of various races; then compare this to numbers of abortions per race. Once these figures are assembled, extrapolate what the population figures would have been without Planned Parenthood's abortion and birth control measures so widely pushed.

Finally, Planned Parenthood is not, by any means, the presumed nonprofit for the good of mankind organization it advertises itself to be but, rather, is a very large multi-billion dollar a year concern; a concern whose sole purpose is the death, destruction and elimination of entire races and classes of people. Their very results are proof evident of this undeniable fact.

* "The Pivot of Civilization" by Margaret Sanger, available in PDF download for about $3 from Amazon.com

[tulc]

Uhmm Worknprogress? How many kids do you have? :scratch:
tulc(just curious) :)

[TwinCrier]

Most of the reasons given for using birth control are identical to the reasons given for abortion. I don't see any biblical basis for using drugs, chemicals and devices to avoid the blessings of God. In my opinion, people who use birth control just don't want to hand control of that part of their life over to God. They fear God will give them more than they can handle, so they choose to create the curse of barrenness on themselves.

Here are some points on the issue that are well worth reading. http://av1611.faithweb.com/catalog.html

[Flynmonkie]

There IS a medical need for abortion AND Birth Control. Medical reasons for terminating a pregnancy have nothing to do with Gods will. We know that if it is not good, it is not from God, therefore we can draw from this experience it is not what God wants us to go through, but it is a experience we will have in this world. God gave us a mind and two hands and the ability to reason. He also has obviously given us the repsonsiblity to take care of blessings [read: our families, children] Putting your own life in danger for the sake of Gods will is a personal choice, but it seems to me one that is not reasoned out. Hormone thearpy, medical conditions are not excuses, they are "reasons" they are facts. There are ethical, moral considerations to those facts that do not defy Biblical truths.

[mlqurgw]

What about vasectomies? No chemicals involved, other than the anesthetic of course.

[RajunCajun86]

Jesus says:

12 This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you.
13 Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends.
John 15

[Katakalupto]

Uhmm Worknprogress? How many kids do you have? :scratch:
tulc(just curious) :)


I have 1. I have lost 3. Why does that matter? God has convicted my husband and I of this, which is why we feel this is right for our family.

[HypoTypoSis]

Most of the reasons given for using birth control are identical to the reasons given for abortion. I don't see any biblical basis for using drugs, chemicals and devices to avoid the blessings of God. In my opinion, people who use birth control just don't want to hand control of that part of their life over to God.

iow, out of control as in no control ie no self-control; but if no one is in the driver's seat then who is in control?

Romans 1:28-32, "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."

[HypoTypoSis]

Anytime we mess with the body's delicate balance there are always negative repercussions.

[HypoTypoSis]

There IS a medical need for abortion AND Birth Control. Medical reasons
It is the main, not the exceptions, that are at issue.

[tulc]

I have 1. I have lost 3. Why does that matter? God has convicted my husband and I of this, which is why we feel this is right for our family.

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be mean or anything I was just curious. Sorry! :blush:
tulc(just a guy who asks dumb questions) :sorry:

[mont974x4]

Since it isn't clearly answered in the Bible then it is between the couple and God. We should not assert our own convictions on this matter onto others.

The passage cited in 1 Cor 7 has nothing to do with procreation and everything to do with sex and temptation to sin.

The method can be debated, abortion as a form of birth control is a travesty of modern times. My heart broke when the FDA approved the morning after pill the other day. I to believe life begins at conception and anything we do to alter the process after that would be murder. However, we must accept miscarriages as accidents (result from living in a sinful dieing world) and not sin in and of itself. Just because we don't conceive children and the egg and sperm are "wasted" doesn't make it a sin either.

For what it's worth I am the father of 4 sons and I am greatly blessed to have them. However, I did have a vasectomy when I discovered the disease that is causing my spine and si joints to fuse is genetic and is unusaully active in my family. I truly do not wish this pain on anyone else. We came to this decision as husband and wife in prayer. The medical reason for birth control is far more prevalent than I would like to admit.
Is it better to practice birth control or abortion?

I do believe that of God plans for us to have more children He is capable to make that happen regardless of what we do. Death and life are in His hands.

Of course, I would suppose our view on birth control would also be colored by our view of sex and why God designed it. I believe it is clear that procreation is only a small reason for sex. There is also unity, pleasure, and protection against temptation.

[Katakalupto]

I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to be mean or anything I was just curious. Sorry! :blush:
tulc(just a guy who asks dumb questions) :sorry:


Its ok. Sorry if I seemed defensive, most people ask me this to then tell me to wait until I have another child. Though these are generally the same people who told me I would change my mind after having one child. :doh:

[TwinCrier]

iow, out of control as in no control ie no self-control; but if no one is in the driver's seat then who is in control?

Romans 1:28-32, "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."
Give God control.

[tulc]

Its ok. Sorry if I seemed defensive, most people ask me this to then tell me to wait until I have another child. Though these are generally the same people who told me I would change my mind after having one child.

Hey no problem! ;) We had two kids (daughters, and I can recomend having them very much!) and we stopped with the two. (because they were perfect!) now we're the Grandparents of two boys! (both geniuses!) :)
tulc(thinks people should do as they feel led by the Lord) :)

[4GODISNOW_HERE]

There are more birth control methods than just medications... I personally don't have a problem with "the pill" but for those that do, why not use other methods?

Is there a Biblical reason not to? I mean, do you believe that it is sinful to use a non-abortion related birth control method?

[Flynmonkie]

It is the main, not the exceptions, that are at issue.
My post this quote snipped from was in response to this:
..<snip> In my opinion, people who use birth control just don't want to hand control of that part of their life over to God. ...<snip>[/URL]

With any argument (rhetorical) there are always facts involved. No matter if one believes these to be reason or rational, reasons= facts. The question posed IS there ANY reason for Birth Control. Factually, there are reasons for Birth Control, both medical and non medical. The root of the issue is what is reason and what is rational and what one considers being "moral." This is subjective. Rationalizing does not include facts. To rationalize the idea that God would want us not to have medical treatment, calling this noble, (in which if truly done for this reason I believe can be but to follow through with the treatment does not mean the opposite, it can equally be just as noble for the same reasons.) This is like saying, I am going to drive a car down the street but not educate myself on traffic etiquette or even how to drive, and Gods got my back.

So my answer to the pointed question, Is there a reason for Birth Control, I contend there is. There are medical reasons for birth control, I will further that with the thought that those reasons are not in conflict with being a faithful follower of God. IOW Having medical treatment is not sinful, it is the intent in which this treatment is used.

I do agree however with the intent of planned parenthood- Very good points. You will not find Christian literature or very little of it, and no Christian counseling involved in their program to this day. But that is another subject altogether. I would like to see a Christian Values organization as large as that devoted to those uneducated. Because that is what it boils down to, most times those seeking this treatment as remedy for what is deemed "mistakes" are uneducated.

School teaches the opposite, educated use birth control, uneducated use nothing and have more kids than they can afford and end up living on welfare. It always is interesting the contradictions people have in viewing life.

[mont974x4]

For what its worth, our church supports Lifeway Pregnancy Centers, we have a new one in our town. They are a Christian alternative to Planned Parenthood.

[Flynmonkie]

For what its worth, our church supports Lifeway Pregnancy Centers, we have a new one in our town. They are a Christian alternative to Planned Parenthood.

:thumbsup: I think that is awesome! Man, I wish I could see more of these going on. So what does the center offer?

[FallingWaters]

Personally, I think that it is up to every married couple to decide as God guides their consciences.That's an excellent answer.

We used Natural Family Planning which required a LOT of abstinence to avoid pregnancy, but God was able to override it any time He wanted.

[Kensington7]

I have 7 kids, ranging from 32 to 13. I love kids. But, I do believe that condoms or natural family forms of birthcontrol are fine.

I believe that only you and God know what you can handle. And while its all well and good for some churches or people to say NO birth control of any kind. Its so very wrong to have child upon child born into poverty or that you cannot take care of because someone else made this rule for you. I would not tell someone else they shouldn't use any form or that its a sin. I am not sitting on the Lap of Jesus at the right hand of the Father. I am saved by grace like everyone else.

I do believe though, its a hypocrisy to tell someone NO BIRTH control, and to then practice something called "Natural family planning" yourself.. which is indeed a charted natural (?) way to control the birth of children to begin with. It would seem that scripture even says no to this "natural" method.. since the Bible says to not deny one another except for the reason of prayer. And I am sure that EVERYONE who abstains for birth control spends that ovulation time on their knees in prayer.. right? Its still birth control... and if you say one method is wrong... all methods are wrong.

Abortion is wrong. After a child is conceived and life has begun, we do not take it. No IUD's or abortion.

But, there are other methods of control that are safe and help. Vasectomy... or Tubal even after you have had as many as you know you can take care of and provide for. Medicine is a blessing, and God uses it for our good. I am not against the pill, or other forms of birth control for your life and your family. Just not abortion or the IUD. HTH.

[Flynmonkie]

I believe that only you and God know what you can handle. And while its all well and good for some churches or people to say NO birth control of any kind. Its so very wrong to have child upon child born into poverty or that you cannot take care of because someone else made this rule for you. I would not tell someone else they shouldn't use any form or that its a sin. I am not sitting on the Lap of Jesus at the right hand of the Father. I am saved by grace like everyone else.



For the most part I agree with you, people have to decide for themselves what they know to be in their heart. But something in your statement does alarm me.

The world will tell us that it is irresponsible, or wrong to have children when we are poor. (I always find this humorous as that every time, no matter how well planned or not, we were poor when I had my children even when I had a great career, I lost my job and all benefits to reorganization right after the last ones birth!)

Life is a blessing from God. I believe God will bless with everything you need for that blessing. We have to be careful not to forget that. Being responsible to me has nothing to do with Birth Control in the sense of financial or economic reason. That is where our faith does come in.

But I am not against those that are educated in the understanding of how biology works and know that no matter, it will work, even when you don't want it to. So I think family planning is probably ok in this regard. If you know you are not ready for a child, or you feel you cannot handle it, by all means who am I to disagree. But know that God will provide and not use finances as an excuse to not continue with a pregnancy. At that point, there is a reason and I feel we have been chosen by God to handle whatever is in our path. Finances should never be part of the equation, you know?

[mont974x4]

:thumbsup: I think that is awesome! Man, I wish I could see more of these going on. So what does the center offer?


They offer biblical counseling and support (emotional, physical, and spiritual). The one here has also helped arrange a few adoptions. This one is only a bit over a year old.

http://www.lifeway.com/tlw/leaders/coop_ministries.asp


They have been able to get into the schools here and set up a booth at a Christian music festival the other day.

[HypoTypoSis]

How much money did Adam and Eve have in their bank accounts? Did they qualify as poor? What is the dividing line between poor and non-poor? And WHO determines where that dividing line is? The Church? Society? The government? Planned Parenthood?

[HypoTypoSis]

I think family planning is probably ok in this regard.
Terms like family planning and planned parenthood are purposely chosen by the advocates of class and racial extermination knowing those terms inherently carry confusing duplicitous terminology.

What we would like to think it means when we think of and refer to it means something altogether different to the mass murdering baby killers that originally coined those terms.

It's much like the terms the New Age crowd have subtly high jacked interjecting into our society, schools and terminolgy; for example, they will act like a brother or sister in Christ with coy little phrases like, 'the christ in you' and, yet, we know the phrase is a lie just as we know there are many christs.

When the founders of "planned" parenthood coined the term "choice" that, too, was purposely chosen for what they would have us believe it to mean means to them something totally different.

To them it does not mean 'you' have the choice to 'plan' your life and your family but, rather, that others with a greater worldwide 'plan' of determining ('choosing') which peoples, classes and races will be eradicated and which, in the end, will survive.

[Flynmonkie]

It doesn’t take one to be a conspiracy theorist to catch on to that at all. It is like that everywhere, for starters.. just turn on a TV and you will hear about all the needs you have that you think aren't satisfied..


The sad thing is this is only an option because we don’t have something that educates the other side; a truly loving organization that can minister to these women and provide medical attention when needed. Another thing, people do use Planned Parenthood for other things than just “abortion” or “the pill,” especially with insurance costs and medical cost surrounding gynecological exams and other female stuff. Including some men. Where I am, there is simply no place to get these services for a small fee or free. They do have the county health clinics, but usually full for months. I am one of those people that believe everyone should have a right to medical care no matter the “cost” planned parenthood seems to be the only one around that supports this stance. That is why I am so interested in what mont974x4 has posted, Life way Program. However I don’t see where they offer these services? Have they extended it to an organization that handles health care cost, child care/rearing issue and cost?

[mont974x4]

It doesn’t take one to be a conspiracy theorist to catch on to that at all. It is like that everywhere, for starters.. just turn on a TV and you will hear about all the needs you have that you think aren't satisfied..


The sad thing is this is only an option because we don’t have something that educates the other side; a truly loving organization that can minister to these women and provide medical attention when needed. Another thing, people do use Planned Parenthood for other things than just “abortion” or “the pill,” especially with insurance costs and medical cost surrounding gynecological exams and other female stuff. Including some men. Where I am, there is simply no place to get these services for a small fee or free. They do have the county health clinics, but usually full for months. I am one of those people that believe everyone should have a right to medical care no matter the “cost” planned parenthood seems to be the only one around that supports this stance. That is why I am so interested in what mont974x4 has posted, Life way Program. However I don’t see where they offer these services? Have they extended it to an organization that handles health care cost, child care/rearing issue and cost?


I don't believe Lifeway offers any real medical services. I do know that everything they offer is free as it is a non-profit and funded by donations.

The wife of one of the elders at my church is the director for the local center. Shoot me an e-mail with any questions and I will get with her and find as many answers as I can.

[tulc]

Terms like family planning and planned parenthood are purposely chosen by the advocates of class and racial extermination knowing those terms inherently carry confusing duplicitous terminology.

Uhmmm you do know they don't "own" those phrases right? So if I use the phrase "family planning" I'm not advocating racial and class extermination? :) That being said I'm all for people planning their families as much as they can. (short of abortion that is) :)
tulc(been fighting in this battle a long time now) ;)

[LadyofRohan99]

[quote=Kensington7;26346337]I have 7 kids, ranging from 32 to 13. I love kids. But, I do believe that condoms or natural family forms of birthcontrol are fine.

I believe that only you and God know what you can handle. And while its all well and good for some churches or people to say NO birth control of any kind. Its so very wrong to have child upon child born into poverty or that you cannot take care of because someone else made this rule for you. I would not tell someone else they shouldn't use any form or that its a sin. I am not sitting on the Lap of Jesus at the right hand of the Father. I am saved by grace like everyone else.

quote]

I hope ya'll don't mind me poking my head in here real quick. I was reading through these posts and this one stopped me. Let me first say that I am against ANY sort of birth control, as well as abortion for any reason.
This argument about being poor and having kids is what I wish to debate. If one is a Christian, and commits the number of children he or she has to the Lord, than he or she doesn't HAVE to worry about being poor and such. God takes care of His own. And if He chooses to give you 10 children on a 20,000 dollar a year salary, than He WILL take care of you.

I come from a family of 8 children, and my Mother, although she did once have surgery so she couldn't have kids, later had the surgery undid and had 3 more children. I don't know what I'd do with my three youngest siblings, they are such a blessing to me. Although things have gotten tough at times, financially speaking, GOD HAS ALWAYS TAKEN CARE OF US. No, we're not poor, but we are definately not rich. There are times we didn't know where or how the next meal was coming, especially if my dad ever got laid off.

So that reason I don't believe. God DOES take care of His children. :)

[tulc]

Let me first say that I am against ANY sort of birth control, as well as abortion for any reason.


...which is all right for you. Other people are also right in saying there's nothing wrong with them using birth control. :) I think that's what most would say.
tulc(thought it needed pointing out) ;)

[Pepperoni]

I hope ya'll don't mind me poking my head in here real quick. I was reading through these posts and this one stopped me. Let me first say that I am against ANY sort of birth control, as well as abortion for any reason.
This argument about being poor and having kids is what I wish to debate. If one is a Christian, and commits the number of children he or she has to the Lord, than he or she doesn't HAVE to worry about being poor and such. God takes care of His own. And if He chooses to give you 10 children on a 20,000 dollar a year salary, than He WILL take care of you.

I agree with this on some level, but all of God's children really need to show some responsibility too.

[coveredwife]

My Belief is to leave it to God, think on this, if it is truly in God's will for you to have a child, do you not think it will happen? Mary was a virgin and concieved, i knew a woman who's husband had a vasectomy and she still got pregnant, he was furious saying that she cheated and in the end they had a paternity test, and What do you know, God decided to overcome what they thought and fullfill HIS will not theirs. I guess what I am saying, is birthcontrol is pointless. God's will always comes through in the end. You can not say you will give your life to God sometimes, you have to do it always.

[JPPT1974]

Not just on the Godly form but
Of the human form in how we
Want and when we want to have children!

[Kensington7]

There is a difference in being poor and being born into poverty. And while God does take care of us, he also calls us to be good stewards of ALL that he gave us including our bodies and the ability to have children and take care of them.

There are way too many "welfare" generations around us, children born into families who live generation to generation in poverty and using the welfare system as the only means of support. This is wrong.

We should, even christians should not preach NO BIRTH control to these people trapped in poverty. An offering or two from us or our church won't change generations of poverty for them. But, wisdom when planning a family and adding in education and YES... birth control if needed will help them to achieve a life they can pass on to future generations once they have broken the curse of poverty and found victory in taking care of themselves.

If teen agers are fooling around, put them on the pill. The sin of fornication is enough without the added poverty and burden of trying to rebuild a life broken with a child on your hip.

[mont974x4]

The Bible does say that a man who does not provide for his family is worse than an unbeliever.

[Flynmonkie]

What version of Baptist teaches this? :scratch:

Is that what you would tell the man that returns from war an invalid, suffers an auto accident permanently crippled etc.. Or how about the man who suffered layoffs and cannot find a position...? Don't you think you should rethink whom that verse would apply to, and how it should be used, and with what other verses it should be combined with? And are you telling me that we should interpret that verse that a man should do it all on his own. That God says a man should provide for his family or he is worthless? That if he cannot then he is worse than an unbeliever? Don't you think you might be missing/forgetting a few of Gods promise in that statement? Namely, He never gives us more than we can handle, and the whole context of Matthew 6:30 seems to come to mind. Do you believe Gods promises? He knows what we will need before hand, when our hands are tied He will provide? Either we view life as a blessing, or we do not. Being responsible is one thing, comparing having children living in poverty --- is thinking like the world. Arrogantly thinking we are completely in control. (BTW this is part of the clockmaker theory that derived from deism – God left it all up to us we know this is not true, there is a balance) There is no clear cut answer to this each situation is different and should be examined by the heart through prayer and guidance. IMHCO

[HypoTypoSis]

The Bible does say that a man who does not provide for his family is worse than an unbeliever.

1 Timothy 5:8, "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

Hebrews 6:4-6, "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

James 2:14-18, "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."

It would seem not putting one's faith to good use is equal to apostasy. Just saying you have faith and are a Christian is nowhere near enough.

Matthew 25:40, "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

[christian73]

1 Timothy 5:8, "But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel."

Hebrews 6:4-6, "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

James 2:14-18, "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works."

It would seem not putting one's faith to good use is equal to apostasy. Just saying you have faith and are a Christian is nowhere near enough.

Matthew 25:40, "And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."
Faith is the center of it all, Hypotyposis. Having faith that God will see you through IS enough. People have to show responsibility, true. If God wants you to have a child, it will happen. If He doesn't, it won't. Sarah lost faith in Genesis and look what happened.

Also, again, your interpretation of James 2:14-18 is incorrect. If you have true faith in God, the works will fall into place. Faith is the foundation.

Matthew 25:40 doesn't prove your point either. It's talking about works, but, again, faith will direct the works.

Hebrews 6:4-6 is misiinterpreted too. It talks about people that hear the Gospel but has renounced Jesus as Savior and Lord. In other words, people who have no faith in Him.

Next verse?

[HypoTypoSis]

James 2:14-18
Matthew 25:40
Hebrews 6:4-6


Faith does not save. Faith does not 'see you through'. 'Showing' responsibility is not the issue, shouldering it is the issue. Faith without responsibility ie works is useless. Faith without works is all talk and no action. You gotta walk the talk, not talk the walk and talking the walk is what faith without works is. God blessed Adam and Eve saying, 'be fruitful and multiply' and (except for Jesus and the spirits in new Christians) retired from the creation business until such time as this creation is reduced to nothingness whereupon He will come out of 'retirement' and create a whole new creation. It is His breath of life that is being passed down from one person and generation to the next. Faith without works is dead, this cannot be avoided, faith does not produce works, an individual through the will and effort produces works. Faith does not save. Many people have many different objects of their faith. Only the correct object can save one and have life altering everlasting effects. But without the proper object of one's faith it is useless, powerless and can do nothing.

[christian73]

Faith does not save. Faith does not 'see you through'. 'Showing' responsibility is not the issue, shouldering it is the issue. Faith without responsibility ie works is useless. Faith without works is all talk and no action. You gotta walk the talk, not talk the walk and talking the walk is what faith without works is. God blessed Adam and Eve saying, 'be fruitful and multiply' and (except for Jesus and the spirits in new Christians) retired from the creation business until such time as this creation is reduced to nothingness whereupon He will come out of 'retirement' and create a whole new creation. It is His breath of life that is being passed down from one person and generation to the next. Faith without works is dead, this cannot be avoided, faith does not produce works, an individual through the will and effort produces works. Faith does not save. Many people have many different objects of their faith. Only the correct object can save one and have life altering everlasting effects. But without the proper object of one's faith it is useless, powerless and can do nothing.
Works are nothing without faith, too. You still have to have the faith before works can mean anything. No matter how you say it, faith is essential for anything we do as Christians.

"For it is by grace you have been saved through faith and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God---not by works, so that no one can boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9 NIV) I never said faith alone can save. That goes against what the Bible says. We are saved by grace through our faith in Jesus.

Next?

[LadyofRohan99]

My Belief is to leave it to God, think on this, if it is truly in God's will for you to have a child, do you not think it will happen? Mary was a virgin and concieved, i knew a woman who's husband had a vasectomy and she still got pregnant, he was furious saying that she cheated and in the end they had a paternity test, and What do you know, God decided to overcome what they thought and fullfill HIS will not theirs. I guess what I am saying, is birthcontrol is pointless. God's will always comes through in the end. You can not say you will give your life to God sometimes, you have to do it always.

Amen, sister, you nailed it. You gotta trust God people. The fact is that from conception, that baby IS a baby and a baby that God knows and loves.

And as for what someone mentioned about giving "the pill" to teenagers who "screw around," I must disagree with this practice. It's basically giving them a liscence to commit the sin of fornication. If they, rather WE, know that there are no major consequences for the sin. However, were the two to fear that they could get pregnant...it would aid in keeping them from committing the sin. Promoting abstinance is the key, not the pill. These are my thoughts, of course you all are welcome to your own beliefs and opinions. :)

[HypoTypoSis]

were the two to fear that they could get pregnant
Fear is the wrong perspective. Education in right Christian moral values is.
Promoting abstinance is the key
Following the promotion of right Christian moral values is the promotion of marriage, not abstinence. As it is currently being taught abstinence is just another 'pill' to avoid pregnancy and, like the pill, abstinence, in itself, also, promotes the fear of pregnancy, most often, under the circumstances, as a result of fear of 'playing without paying' due to the unmarried state.

[JPPT1974]

It is indeed more about Christians
Morales and values we place on another
As well as being a virgin until the day
That you get married to your loved one!

[LadyofRohan99]

Fear is the wrong perspective. Education in right Christian moral values is.

Following the promotion of right Christian moral values is the promotion of marriage, not abstinence. As it is currently being taught abstinence is just another 'pill' to avoid pregnancy and, like the pill, abstinence, in itself, also, promotes the fear of pregnancy, most often, under the circumstances, as a result of fear of 'playing without paying' due to the unmarried state.


There has to be a certain degree of fear my friend. Fear of consequences keeps us in line. If those kids aren't Christians, they've got nothing other than that fear to hold them back from "doing it." Now if you take away that fear, they have no reason not to. Granted there are a few that, although they are not Christians, have some good morals and wouldn't have sex before marriage even if they could, but I'm thinking this is the exception not the rule among youth of our age.

I do agree, we should promote marriage. But it woould be good to promote absintance UNTIL marriage. As that is the key.