Legalism word usage

[jcright]

Legalism has been catching my thoughts lately.

Since I've been back and have been sifting through the discussions, I've noted several times where someone has said "That's just being legalistic"....or some phrasing there abouts.

This has been catching in my mind for a couple of reasons.

1) I can't help but to think that's a word that people fall back on when they don't want to accept something. In order to prove they are right/blameless, then the thought they are against must be legalistic. Its a sort of justification so they can feel better about their choices.

2) The word legalism has a very negative connotation to it...more so than I would think is deserved. Having said that, I can't help but to conjure up the image of being holier than thou. No one says "you're legalistic" or "that's legalism" in a good way. The attitude therefore comes across as "I would never go to that church because they are legalistic"....as in "I have a better balance of the topics than that church/person does".

It just seems like when the freedom to choose is restricted, and it is something that is normally chosen, then it must automatically be a legalistic thought conjured up by someone who is afriad or uneducated or misinformed, etc.

Having said that, I can't help but to think that the word should be dropped from our vocabulary. After all, because a church insists on something, doesn't mean they are a bad church or that it is a bad idea. It doesn't mean they don't have a good balance. If anything, it means that they are trying to protect their congregation from being sinful, they are trying to ensure their congregation has a good witness for the rest of the world.

There are plenty of examples I could choose...but I'll refrain from naming any because I know we would quickly lose the point:). However, I will clarify. There is a huge difference between "legalistic" and claiming that something is commanded in the bible when it clearly isn't. The former is extra biblical that is quite possibly a good idea while the other is a flat out lie for no other reason than it isn't really in the bible...although, it could possibly still be a good idea, just enforced improperly.

I should probably further clarify by saying that you have the right to disagree. Based on what I've been reading through, I guess I would just encourage everyone to think about it before putting the legalism tag on an idea. For myself, I know I disagree with my brother-in-law's brother-in-law (not a typo). Didja follow that? My sister's husband has a sister who's husband is a pastor:). I disagree with him on some things, but his church is always on the top of my list of churches to recommend to people. I have other reasons for not making his church my home church, none of which has to do with what I disagree with him on. I still have the utmost respect for him and use him as a consult whenever I have questions.

Thanks for reading my babble:)

[mlqurgw]

Legalism isn't a bad word just because many misuse it. It actually does exist in many churches. Legalism is basically setting up rules that others ought to live by and always makes someone the judge of whether you are meeting the rules or not. Believers don't need to live by law they live by love. Also there is no such thing as a pure local assembly, the tares are mixed with the wheat. We are never told to remove the tares or to try and force them by rules to live a certain way.

[daveleau]

I think things become legalistic when we try to add things on top of Scripture, rather than looking at things randomly as being legalistic or not. We need to look for the author's intended meaning in the verse, through prayer, and through contextual, cultural and word studies, and through help from other Godly people. When we have exhausted all forms of helps, we should have a good understanding. If we do not then we go with our best to follow what we think is right, but this should not be often.

Legalism is simply a different term from what the Bible used for adding things on top of Scripture. Judaizers were the legalistic people of NT times.

Abuse of the term legalism leads to its misunderstanding, which is bad. Fundamental, evangelical, charismatic, catholic, orthodox, the rainbow-these are all terms/images that have come to mean less than good things to many people because of their altered use. We can still use the terms, but we must now waste time clarifying that we mean the true meaning of the word, not the twisted meaning. Legalism is abused frequently. Results from good scholarly study coupled with prayer and beleif in an inerrant Scripture are often called legalistic because people are afraid of repenting and following Scripture. This abuse is sad, and misguided.

[rainbowpromise]

I have a legalistic family. As a whole we are rules orientated. We are hard on each other, ourselves and sometimes others.

Subjects that have come up in our own family are things like:

tithing
music
Bible version
Sunday School
Church attendanceAnd the methods of all of the above.

[PETE_]

Legalism has been catching my thoughts lately.

Since I've been back and have been sifting through the discussions, I've noted several times where someone has said "That's just being legalistic"....or some phrasing there abouts.

This has been catching in my mind for a couple of reasons.

1) I can't help but to think that's a word that people fall back on when they don't want to accept something. In order to prove they are right/blameless, then the thought they are against must be legalistic. Its a sort of justification so they can feel better about their choices.

Wherever there is freedom there are those who will abuse it. Just look at how the freedom we enjoy in America is abused by many.

2) The word legalism has a very negative connotation to it...more so than I would think is deserved. Having said that, I can't help but to conjure up the image of being holier than thou. No one says "you're legalistic" or "that's legalism" in a good way. The attitude therefore comes across as "I would never go to that church because they are legalistic"....as in "I have a better balance of the topics than that church/person does".

I find that the judgemental attitude is usually exhibited by legalists. They are foolowing the rules and you are not, so they are better than you. People avoid legalistic churches for the same reason people do not move to China. Freedom of worship.

It just seems like when the freedom to choose is restricted, and it is something that is normally chosen, then it must automatically be a legalistic thought conjured up by someone who is afriad or uneducated or misinformed, etc.

Christ often went against the normally chosen things of the religious leaders. The freedom He taught was new and different to many. The misinformed were the Pharasees, they did not undersand grace.

Having said that, I can't help but to think that the word should be dropped from our vocabulary. After all, because a church insists on something, doesn't mean they are a bad church or that it is a bad idea. It doesn't mean they don't have a good balance. If anything, it means that they are trying to protect their congregation from being sinful, they are trying to ensure their congregation has a good witness for the rest of the world.

How would you feel if America outlawed the practice of Islam in order to protect American lives. Even if the motive is good, resticting freedom is a bad idea.

There are plenty of examples I could choose...but I'll refrain from naming any because I know we would quickly lose the point:). However, I will clarify. There is a huge difference between "legalistic" and claiming that something is commanded in the bible when it clearly isn't. The former is extra biblical that is quite possibly a good idea while the other is a flat out lie for no other reason than it isn't really in the bible...although, it could possibly still be a good idea, just enforced improperly.

That is usually the argument. Some say it is there, others say it's not.

I should probably further clarify by saying that you have the right to disagree. Based on what I've been reading through, I guess I would just encourage everyone to think about it before putting the legalism tag on an idea. For myself, I know I disagree with my brother-in-law's brother-in-law (not a typo). Didja follow that? My sister's husband has a sister who's husband is a pastor:). I disagree with him on some things, but his church is always on the top of my list of churches to recommend to people. I have other reasons for not making his church my home church, none of which has to do with what I disagree with him on. I still have the utmost respect for him and use him as a consult whenever I have questions.

Thanks for reading my babble:)

Disagreement is different than condemnation.

[JPPT1974]

Disagreement is different than condemnation.

Look at it this way my friend
We can agree to disagree
In a polite and friendly matter!

[Flynmonkie]

Legalism to me is much as described as above. In a short sentence?

Legalism is reducing Christianity (faith) to a set of rules that should be followed -- or else. Forgetting that the true test of Salvation is faith and love.


....Tends to make God's love something to earn rather than to accept freely. Would reduce Christianity to a set of impossible rules and transform the Good News into bad news.

http://www.flynmonkie.com/three_distortions.htm

[jcright]

I don't think I've ever gotten the impression that we are supposed to follow the rules because we are earning our salvation or God's love. I do, however, think it is something we do because we love God. We follow the rules to protect each other and to have a good testimony but we do it because we love God and we are following the command to love our neighbor.

You do have a point with the "or else" comment. I usually tend to think of that in cultish terms which is not what we want to depict. Having said that, we can disagree with a church and go elsewhere where we are more comfortable without having to look down at the other church because they want to project the higher standards....which is what this is all about, looking down at a church or person becaues they want those higher standards. To date, I don't think I've seen impossible rules...but maybe that's just my neck of the woods.

[Flynmonkie]

I don't look down on anyone. There are those that do try to impose their views without taking others into perspective. That is not really looking down; it is merely saying they have loss of credibility. People off the top of my head that this would apply to would be Fred Phelps, although all of us are sinners and fall short; he seems to take this a step further by twisting the Good News into bad news. Using religious beliefs as a weapon to have people believe they need to act in a certain way, or else. I live in an area with Amish and Mennonites; I love many things about their culture and ways. However, I don't look down on them because they wear bonnets (head coverings) or cherish simple things, I admire many things about that, for me, I do not believe all of that is needed. It is just a different perspective. The same God, the same faith, just different ways of carrying out that faith. Neither are better or worse, just different. A legalist would find things about both of our perspectives and put them down.

Legalism to me is a term for those whom set rules, or else. Leaving people to question their salvation and marring their relationship with God. Forgetting that there is nothing we can do to earn it, it is a gift given freely from God. So busy worried about the rules, they forget to uplift. True there are basic fundamental principals we are to aim to live by, but sanctification is a life long process, and different people experience their faith through different belief systems. To lay down rules outside of that as a "perquisite" of salvation is to deplete the gospel message. I am really not sure how it has been used against you? But keep this in mind; just the term fundamentalist has various meanings to various people too! Sometimes it is hard to know where another is coming from. My suggestion is that you ask the next person that calls you that why and what they mean? I have never been called a legalist, and very rarely do I use the term. Except those situations where someone says you must wear a head covering, you must not cut your hair, you must not wear pants, you must buy and nice clothes to church, you must attend church blah, blah, blah,…Even then I am very careful that it is not something that can just be termed – they have a lot of growth to do in this area – or flat out legalism.

[53Isaiah]

Instead of asking CF members for there option see what the Word of God has to say....

Paul delt with it all the time in the early chruch. Read his letter to the churches of Galatia.

Cecular study can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalism_(theology)

[Razorbuck]

I think things become legalistic when we try to add things on top of Scripture, rather than looking at things randomly as being legalistic or not. We need to look for the author's intended meaning in the verse, through prayer, and through contextual, cultural and word studies, and through help from other Godly people. When we have exhausted all forms of helps, we should have a good understanding. If we do not then we go with our best to follow what we think is right, but this should not be often.

Legalism is simply a different term from what the Bible used for adding things on top of Scripture. Judaizers were the legalistic people of NT times.

Abuse of the term legalism leads to its misunderstanding, which is bad. Fundamental, evangelical, charismatic, catholic, orthodox, the rainbow-these are all terms/images that have come to mean less than good things to many people because of their altered use. We can still use the terms, but we must now waste time clarifying that we mean the true meaning of the word, not the twisted meaning. Legalism is abused frequently. Results from good scholarly study coupled with prayer and beleif in an inerrant Scripture are often called legalistic because people are afraid of repenting and following Scripture. This abuse is sad, and misguided.



Outstanding post.

[JPPT1974]

Instead of asking CF members for there option see what the Word of God has to say....

Paul delt with it all the time in the early chruch. Read his letter to the churches of Galatia.

Cecular study can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legalism_(theology)


Thanks for providing that my friend
God bless you!