Church government

[HumbleMan]

The other thread (background checks) has brought a new question to my mind.

How do you think the local church should be governed? If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to know the reasons you vote the way you do.

If you believe in another way, please also let us know, too.

Thanks,

HM

[mont974x4]

The membership votes to elect deacons and elders. The deacons and elders handle the business side but the people have the power and authority.

As to the teaching and doctrine, since those who teach will be held accountable for what they teach then those being taught should be ready and willing to keep them in check. We have become a lazy society with a "well we pay him to study the Bible and tell us what it says" attitude. It saddens me but it is happening all over the place.

[Seeker of the Truth]

a church isn't a building, it's not a facility, it's a group of people coming together and serving Christ... I believe that as a church, you ought to pray to Christ because he IS the head of the Church...

[mlqurgw]

My view isn't described in the poll so I didn't vote. I believe the local assembly is pastor led with elders if the church is big enough to need them.
Although a pastor is an elder they are not the same thing. We read of elders being appointed but pastors are a gift from Christ to His bride. Nowhere do we find that the church was ever a democracy in the Scripture. It is a fold of sheep led by an undershepherd called and gifted of God to that local assembly. The people of that church has the heart of the pastor and he has theirs. They follow him as he follows Christ. Pastoring isn't a job men go into but a calling from God. Ministry isn't a vocation but a lifestyle of service. I would love to hear what some of you think the responsibilities of a pastor are. I would love it even more if you could show it from Scripture.

[HumbleMan]

My view isn't described in the poll so I didn't vote. I believe the local assembly is pastor led with elders if the church is big enough to need them.
Although a pastor is an elder they are not the same thing. We read of elders being appointed but pastors are a gift from Christ to His bride. Nowhere do we find that the church was ever a democracy in the Scripture. It is a fold of sheep led by an undershepherd called and gifted of God to that local assembly. The people of that church has the heart of the pastor and he has theirs. They follow him as he follows Christ. Pastoring isn't a job men go into but a calling from God. Ministry isn't a vocation but a lifestyle of service. I would love to hear what some of you think the responsibilities of a pastor are. I would love it even more if you could show it from Scripture.

I don't have a lot of time at this moment, but I"ll say that I tend to agree with your view about the pastor's calling and sacrifice. But I feel the elders had an important role in the local church body in biblical times. There were no organized assemblies then. They either met at one another's house to worship and fellowship, or sat in temple to preach and teach, with sometimes the two overlapping. I think the elders played a big part in the day to day life of the believers, a pastoral role, while those called by God to preach did just that, preach.

I don't wish to diminish the role of today's pastor, but I do believe that those called to preach take on more than they were called to sometimes.

In regards to my other thread, I think there would be a lot more trust between the pastor and congregation if the financial and administrative duties were the responsibilities of the elders.

And thank you, everyone, for your answers. I'm looking forward to seeing more responses and learning how everyone feels about this.

[mlqurgw]

I don't have a lot of time at this moment, but I"ll say that I tend to agree with your view about the pastor's calling and sacrifice. But I feel the elders had an important role in the local church body in biblical times. There were no organized assemblies then. They either met at one another's house to worship and fellowship, or sat in temple to preach and teach, with sometimes the two overlapping. I think the elders played a big part in the day to day life of the believers, a pastoral role, while those called by God to preach did just that, preach.

I don't wish to diminish the role of today's pastor, but I do believe that those called to preach take on more than they were called to sometimes.

In regards to my other thread, I think there would be a lot more trust between the pastor and congregation if the financial and administrative duties were the responsibilities of the elders.

And thank you, everyone, for your answers. I'm looking forward to seeing more responses and learning how everyone feels about this.Biblically, what are the responsibilities of a pastor? What are the responsibilities of an elder?

[HumbleMan]

Biblically, what are the responsibilities of a pastor? What are the responsibilities of an elder?

I'm at work right now, and in between doing some month-end stuff, I'm looking for the passages I was thinking about. I don't remember anything concrete as to the roles and responsibilities, but more to the settings and inferences of certain passages.

If my phone will ever stop ringing, I'll get back to this :)

[mlqurgw]

I'm at work right now, and in between doing some month-end stuff, I'm looking for the passages I was thinking about. I don't remember anything concrete as to the roles and responsibilities, but more to the settings and inferences of certain passages.

If my phone will ever stop ringing, I'll get back to this :)
I am in no hurry, take all the time you need. My point is that what many think is their responsibility can't be backed up by Scripture. I am not disagreeing with you. Things such as counciling for example.

[edb19]

First - my pastor would say that pastor and elder are interchangeable, that they are the same office.

I like my church's form of government. We have a board of trustees who make most financial decisions. The trustees are voted into office by the congregation for 3 year terms but they may be re-elected indefinitely. Major financial decisions (i.e. the purchase of our building) are researched by the trustees and go to the congregation for final approval.

The pastors are responsible for teaching/preaching. They plan our order of worship (we do follow the regulative principle). They also handle any church discipline. They feel very strongly that the less they have to do with finances the better. On those issues that go to the congregation for a vote they get one vote just like everyone else.

[Erinwilcox]

Anyone interested in the Presbyterian form of government? They certainly have a lot more accountability than churches that are just pastor led.

[Project 86]

I have always believed pastors and elders are the same thing biblically. I believe they should be the leaders in the church and that having the church vote on things is a western idea that isn't there in the Bible. That being said I did vote even though I totally don't agree with what I voted for.

[mont974x4]

I have always believed pastors and elders are the same thing biblically. I believe they should be the leaders in the church and that having the church vote on things is a western idea that isn't there in the Bible. That being said I did vote even though I totally don't agree with what I voted for.

Actually biblical church discipline is done by a majority when it comes to the stage when someone needs to be removed. How else can that be done accept by a vote?

[Project 86]

Actually biblical church discipline is done by a majority when it comes to the stage when someone needs to be removed. How else can that be done accept by a vote?

The elders kick them out after the Biblical steps are first taken.

Here is a challenge for us that are too use to how most churches run their show. Show me where in the Bible or even in the other very early church writings where voting was done to decide doctrine? How about to pick a new pastor? Vote in a new deacon? I don't see any which leads me to believe that this isn't a Biblical way of running church goverment. I'm certainly open to being wrong but I will only accept evidence from those listed above.

[mont974x4]

The elders kick them out after the Biblical steps are first taken.

Here is a challenge for us that are too use to how most churches run their show. Show me where in the Bible or even in the other very early church writings where voting was done to decide doctrine? How about to pick a new pastor? Vote in a new deacon? I don't see any which leads me to believe that this isn't a Biblical way of running church goverment. I'm certainly open to being wrong but I will only accept evidence from those listed above.


That would be interesting to look at. Paul and other early church planters appointed elders from the local fellowship.

I'll get back to you on the majority issue regarding discipline. I just read it in the last couple of weeks.

[Erinwilcox]

The elders kick them out after the Biblical steps are first taken.

Here is a challenge for us that are too use to how most churches run their show. Show me where in the Bible or even in the other very early church writings where voting was done to decide doctrine? How about to pick a new pastor? Vote in a new deacon? I don't see any which leads me to believe that this isn't a Biblical way of running church goverment. I'm certainly open to being wrong but I will only accept evidence from those listed above.

I don't know--but if you have the power to vote, you may as well use it if you know it's gonna be a close one! :P

[JacobHall86]

Pastor Led.

[mont974x4]

I believe it was 2 Cor 2:6 that talks about punishment by the majority, or many. I'll keep looking tomorrow, I need to shut down for a thunderstorm.

[HumbleMan]

I am in no hurry, take all the time you need. My point is that what many think is their responsibility can't be backed up by Scripture. I am not disagreeing with you. Things such as counciling for example.
Sorry it took so long to get back.

I did some quick research last night after the kids went to bed. Paul does seem to indicate that the elders do have authority over the local congregation. But the role of the pastor is also an elder. He also makes mention of the different gifts we are blessed with, teaching, encouraging, healing, etc.

I've found mostly silence on the specifics of the roles, though. I may be wrong, and would love to hear your take on this, but it seems the pastor is an elder with the gift of preaching, while another elder might be set aside for counseling, and others for accountability in the church, and etc.

[TwinCrier]

Our church does a combo of all of the above. The pastor AND the elders make decisions, then run them past the congregation at a wed. night service once a month. We have a "vote" that goes like this:
Pastor: "All in favor say 'amen'."
Congregation: "Amen"
Pasor: All opposed: {usually silence, but any nay vote can be shouted out at this time}

[JPPT1974]

Our church does a combo of all of the above. The pastor AND the elders make decisions, then run them past the congregation at a wed. night service once a month. We have a "vote" that goes like this:
Pastor: "All in favor say 'amen'."
Congregation: "Amen"
Pasor: All opposed: {usually silence, but any nay vote can be shouted out at this time}

My home church doesn't do that but I went
To a church in NYC that did that
They though on the other hand didn't say
All opposed which I think was nice that
They agreed on it!

[JacobHall86]

When a church is run by the congregation it is going to be messed up.

See Ancient Israel.

[holdon]

When a church is run by the congregation it is going to be messed up.

See Ancient Israel.

When a church is run by humans, rather than the Holy Spirit, it is going to be messed up.

[mont974x4]

I don't see any evidence of a man in sole leadership in the Bible. If I remember correctly it always talks about elders leading the local church as opposed to a single elder.

[Erinwilcox]

When a church is run by the congregation it is going to be messed up.

See Ancient Israel.

Okay! Let's vote on the color of the new carpet!

25% blue
15% green
10%brown
50% keep the old carpet, why be extravagent!

CHURCH SPLIT!!!!!

Hate to point stuff like that out, but it happens.

Still, I have to admit that the more I look into Presbyterian forms of church government, the more I like them. . .

[mlqurgw]

Okay! Let's vote on the color of the new carpet!

25% blue
15% green
10%brown
50% keep the old carpet, why be extravagent!

CHURCH SPLIT!!!!!

Hate to point stuff like that out, but it happens.

Still, I have to admit that the more I look into Presbyterian forms of church government, the more I like them. . .I was a Baptist member of a Presbyterian church twice and found that they have as many problems as the Baptists. It just doesn't get to the body as much. It is often confined to the Presbytery.

[Erinwilcox]

I guess that at some point there is bound to be problems with any kind of church government. The only solution to it all will be when we are all in glory. Sin permeates everything and everything is tainted with it--even church governent. As long as things are run by fallen people, whether in leadership or in congregation, things will never be perfect. The more accountability, however, the better.

[HumbleMan]

Okay! Let's vote on the color of the new carpet!

25% blue
15% green
10%brown
50% keep the old carpet, why be extravagent!

CHURCH SPLIT!!!!!

Hate to point stuff like that out, but it happens.

Still, I have to admit that the more I look into Presbyterian forms of church government, the more I like them. . .

That's a good example of why I don't believe in having votes or being democratic. Elders should make the decisions for the church.

The problem is when elders are selected who don't meet the qualifications. An elder should not be an elective office. Rather, those that are spiritually mature and are ready to take the mantle should fill that role without being asked. If an elder is one that is Godly, the congregation will listen to him.

Our problem is that we think we have a voice in everything. We don't. We have ears to listen to God.

[JPPT1974]

I guess that at some point there is bound to be problems with any kind of church government. The only solution to it all will be when we are all in glory. Sin permeates everything and everything is tainted with it--even church governent. As long as things are run by fallen people, whether in leadership or in congregation, things will never be perfect. The more accountability, however, the better.


Amen to that!:amen: