Disagreements?

[Bushmaster78FS]

Let's talk about this as it concerns us... Disagreements with church leaership... You disagreed with your priest, you were convinced your priest "blatantly contradicted himself", you saw that he avoids you, you felt Orthodox faith is a blind obedience to an institution?

Read on starting from post number #56

http://www.christianforums.com/t3285708-this-image.html

I do believe that Orthodox Faith doesn't end in the priest's hands. Nor a certain priest is an absolute authority concerning Orthodox Faith... Read on about this poor soul...

[kamikat]

It's possible that this man's priest was having "issues" and this man now thinks that all Orthodox priests are like that.

[Bushmaster78FS]

Kamikat, where did he say he was 19? I missed that.

[Bushmaster78FS]

I immediately put myself into his shoes. Now imagine your priest "blatantly contradicted himself" by saying to think with your heart! You disagreed with him. There are so many bishops and archbishops above the priest level who can satisfy this soul, that is immediately what I thought.

I am kind of convinced that this guy was not chrismated into Orthodox Faith but he quit when he was a Cathecumen.

[gzt]

it's sad that people expect priests to be perfect gurus or startsy or something or maybe that the parishes are supposed to be filled with angels and then fall when they see they aren't. there's undoubtedly more to it than that, but that certainly plays at least a small part in many people's lives...

[Greg the byzantine]

The thing that I kind of have a problem with is that people are seeking perfection, yet the little tiny thing they forget to realize is that perfection doesn't exist on this Earth. So in my mind they are really searching for Heaven but trying to find it here on this Earth, without spending any time trying to figure out how to attain it in the next Life

[MariaRegina]

I immediately put myself into his shoes. Now imagine your priest "blatantly contradicted himself" by saying to think with your heart! You disagreed with him. There are so many bishops and archbishops above the priest level who can satisfy this soul, that is immediately what I thought.

I am kind of convinced that this guy was not chrismated into Orthodox Faith but he quit when he was a Cathecumen.

I remember him here at TAW. He was a nice poster and I do think he got chrismated but then suddenly left.

We must pray and be patient. Sometimes folks at TAW people get hot under the collar and say regrettable sarcastic things. As a result, sometimes people leave TAW or CF and we wonder why.

I have received several PMs from young men who have been scandalized or angered at our words. Some left TAW voluntarily, others not.

This makes about the 6th guy that I know who has left the Orthodox Faith in two years (the third this year) and they were all good people.

[choirfiend]

He's not the fellow who had been approaching Orthodoxy for years, was he? That fellow became Episcopelian last I heard.

[MariaRegina]

Nope that was yet another fellow, and I am not mentioning names on purpose.

[kamikat]

After reading more of that thread this morning, I think he's just lost his faith and is angry at God. There are two kinds of "atheists", those who don't believe in the exsistance of God and those who reject God. Sometimes the second kind can become the first kind, but I don't think he's there yet.
kamikat

[Ilian]

I am not aware of the particulars of this situation, but this post by Aria interested me

We must pray and be patient. Sometimes folks at TAW people get hot under the collar and say regrettable sarcastic things. As a result, sometimes people leave TAW or CF and we wonder why.

I have received several PMs from young men who have been scandalized or angered at our words. Some left TAW voluntarily, others not.

This makes about the 6th guy that I know who has left the Orthodox Faith in two years (the third this year) and they were all good people.

I have seen many regrettable and awful things posted online. I think we all need to be cognizant that online life has a different dynamic than what I would call real life. When we become scandalized by something, I think it is best simply to turn away from it.

Regarding the last point, I have unfortunately seen some converts fall away too. In every case so far though, I would say it is because they somehow expected Orthodoxy to conform to something they wanted it to be, instead of conforming themselves to the church (blemishes and all). A few I think were also rushed in to their decision, again which is unfortunate.

[Bushmaster78FS]

This argument still continues... It is now more like there is a God, there is no God argument, which is an ancient argument. Well do you know why you believe what you believe?

[MariaRegina]

And it seems like he wants to convince you that there is no God.

Sometimes when the arguments start getting circular we must bow out respectfully, especially

when the argument of two equally opposite propositions are mentioned.

C.S. Lewis mentioned this in his book, The Problem with Pain:

The married bachelor
An omniscent God who doesn't know it all.
An omnipotent God who is not all powerful (cannot make a stone that He cannot lift).

Those are old arguments that atheists use, and they are false arguments which are intended to trap the unwary.

[MariaRegina]

That report button in my posts is bothersome.

Someday, I just know that I will click it and start posting a reply. Caught myself once already -- but it didn't look right as I couldn't see the post above. :)

Anyway, Bushmaster, have you read The Problem with Pain. It is wonderful.

[Bushmaster78FS]

I believe he is right to ask why do we believe what we believe, but then I do not see a reason to go ahead and say "I don't see a reason to believe so I will use all my effort to refute the existence of God" ...

One thing he can not do is to prove me whatever happened in my life is happened just as a coincidence. I might be the "unwary" of some "logical" arguments as you say, though it doesn't bother me, I have been always amazed with the harmony of the universe, and science's response "well, just because" In a place where theere is no God, there must a beginning and an end, where everything is explained by logic we possess and science.


I forgot I have the book, it was given to me by ConantheLibrarian, a 160 pg book, been busy lately to read anything in depth.

Only thing I gathered from his arguments so far that I need to construct a better view of why I believe God (of Christianity, which is the only God) not to explain to him or likes, but to myself.

[MariaRegina]

I believe he is right to ask why do we believe what we believe, but then I do not see a reason to go ahead and say "I don't see a reason to believe so I will use all my effort to refute the existence of God" ...

One thing he can not do is to prove me whatever happened in my life is happened just as a coincidence. I might be the "unwary" of some "logical" arguments as you say, though it doesn't bother me, I have been always amazed with the harmony of the universe, and science's response "well, just because" In a place where theere is no God, there must a beginning and an end, where everything is explained by logic we possess and science.


I forgot I have the book, it was given to me by ConantheLibrarian, a 160 pg book, been busy lately to read anything in depth.

Only thing I gathered from his arguments so far that I need to construct a better view of why I believe God (of Christianity, which is the only God) not to explain to him or likes, but to myself.


Therein lies the danger, Bushmaster. :eek:

You don't need to prove the existence of God. Trying to do so will just cause problems.

Read The Problem with Pain before you attempt any defense of God.

Remember:

Western Theologians study God but Eastern Theologians experience God through prayer.

God doesn't need to be defended and studied.
We are called to praise and worship Him with repentant hearts.
God reveals Himself to the pure and the humble of heart.

Those who try to pen a brilliant defense on the existence of God can be swallowed up in their pride
and end up denying God. This has already happened to several young men at CF and it appears that C is one of them.

[Bushmaster78FS]

You have actually caught the reason why this has been bothering me, there is one thing inside saying that I don't need to try, I don't believe why I believe because I grew up with it, there were events that prove my faith, however another thing tells me that if we do retreat from debating the atheist, the result would be letting this guy go away with his so-called righteous position and therefore he laughs at our face as we believe something he considers "illogical"...