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hungrytiger
22nd August 2006, 02:24 PM
According to one poll (http://www.christianforums.com/t2738416-do-babies-go-to-heaven.html), it seems that by far the popular view on CF is that people who die as babies are assured of heaven. What is the Orthodox view on this matter?

jckstraw72
22nd August 2006, 02:39 PM
According to one poll (http://www.christianforums.com/t2738416-do-babies-go-to-heaven.html), it seems that by far the popular view on CF is that people who die as babies are assured of heaven. What is the Orthodox view on this matter?


i think the official official position might be we cant ultimately say what God will do, but I'm not sure why they would be condemned. Christ said to become like the little ones to enter Heaven, so I would think they are more pure than us, but I'm not 100% certain on this.

MariaRegina
22nd August 2006, 02:59 PM
Salvation is not a popularity contest, thank goodness.

According to Metropolitan Hierotheos in his book LIFE AFTER DEATH, unbaptized infants are saved, but children should be baptized as soon as possible after birth.

My priest has told me cases where children as young as three (maybe even younger) have reached the age of reason and knew they were doing wrong.

Besides the saints have mentioned how baptized infants who regularly receive Holy Communion have less infections because they are receiving Christ.

MORTANIUS
22nd August 2006, 03:48 PM
This is interesting because I had this discussion between my Orthodox and RC friends at work and we all agreed that such unknowable cirumstances of the afterlife are ultimately left to God and not to our understanding and definitions.

Why would God allow a newborn to die and then be punished? Of course He would not do this just because we as adults failed to baptize the infant at the moment of its birth. This would be ridiculous for us to assume as the only way God allows entrance to Heaven.

For example, the Thief on the cross next to Jesus Christ was not Baptized. He only proffessed Christ and asked for forgiveness. Jesus told him that he would be with him in His Fathers Kingdom.

Should we believe that unbaptized infants would be punished because they could neither proffess or confess to God? Or not having been baptized? Well...this depends on what you want to believe. Do you believe God has a purpose for all things that happen or befall us? Or do you believe that God allows unloving things to happen to us?

I'd like to believe that God in His infinite wisdom has a purpose for all things that happen and that infants who die unbaptized share in His mercy - and not just us people who are baptized.

Like I mentioned, if the Thief on the cross wasn't baptized, why would an innocent infant who is not baptized be punished? Original sin perhaps?

choirfiend
22nd August 2006, 03:50 PM
I dont even think this is totally related to the Orthodox teaching on baptism, but instead comes back to the tried and true "no matter what, baptised or heathen, God knows the hearts of men and His Judgement is righteous." And that's where we leave things.

eoe
22nd August 2006, 04:11 PM
This whole broken discussion is a result of Roman error in the doctrine of Original Sin. OS has been the source of so many problems that it is just crazy. Limbo, Immaculate Conception.. Problems after problems after problems.... Ever seen a little kid lie? He then has to tell another lie to cover the first lie? At the end he has told so many lies that they just compound one another?

OS was one of the first that forced the creation of many others.

ufonium2
22nd August 2006, 07:17 PM
One thing you have to realize is that we don't have the idea of confirmation, or of waiting till age seven or whenever for first communion. My son was baptized, chrismated, and given communion at the age of seven weeks. He's a full member of the Church. To me, that's the only sensible way to treat an infant. I mean, you're (not any particular you, of course) going to scoff at the Baptist idea that you have to have reached an age of reason, or have some certain level of understanding, before you can be baptized, but then you turn around and impose those exact same restrictions on a kid before he/she can receive communion or be a full member of the church?

Akathist
22nd August 2006, 08:36 PM
God loves us fully and completely and desires that not one of us is lost.

Further, nothing can seperate us from the Love of God.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:


“ For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”[c (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%208%20;&version=50;#fen-NKJV-28147c)]

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

While I do not know the Mind of God, I truely have faith that my two children who died before being born are with the "saved".

Servus Iesu
22nd August 2006, 10:21 PM
I've had some interesting and edifying discussions on TAW before, so here goes:

At what point does an infant need salvation? What I mean is that if a baby is born saved, a part of the Kingdom of Our Lord, when do they cease to be a part of that Kingdom? Does a child not need redemption until their first actual sin? Or is it an accumulation of sin which transfers the human soul from life to death and a need for redeeming grace?

Akathist
22nd August 2006, 10:36 PM
I've had some interesting and edifying discussions on TAW before, so here goes:

At what point does an infant need salvation? What I mean is that if a baby is born saved, a part of the Kingdom of Our Lord, when do they cease to be a part of that Kingdom? Does a child not need redemption until their first actual sin? Or is it an accumulation of sin which transfers the human soul from life to death and a need for redeeming grace?

More learned members will respond to this. But I wanted to comment that with the question:

When do any of us ever have a point where we do not need salvation?

We believe this: We were saved, we are being saved and we will be saved. It is not a one time thing.

Ilian
22nd August 2006, 10:53 PM
At what point does an infant need salvation? What I mean is that if a baby is born saved, a part of the Kingdom of Our Lord, when do they cease to be a part of that Kingdom? Does a child not need redemption until their first actual sin? Or is it an accumulation of sin which transfers the human soul from life to death and a need for redeeming grace?

St. Gregory the Theologian said in effect unbaptized infants (I’m assuming that’s what’s being discussed here) would not be damned simply by nature of their not being baptized seeing as they have not accumulated personal sin; though like all of us they are subject to the effects of Original Sin. There is nothing in other words that they could stand in judgment for having never willingly transgressed his divine justice, so they would not exist in separation from God. He did however say that the manner of salvation would not be like that of a person who had struggled with sin. Their perception of the glory of God would be different than for instance from someone who had seen and battled with the side of darkness, but who had ultimately accepted the free gift of God’s love. The question then to me is not really about the assurance of salvation, but the nature of salvation, because what is being saved if you have no comprehension of the possibility of not being saved. I would assume that in these cases salvation itself would be qualitatively different.

Servus Iesu
22nd August 2006, 11:14 PM
St. Gregory the Theologian said in effect unbaptized infants (I’m assuming that’s what’s being discussed here) would not be damned simply by nature of their not being baptized seeing as they have not accumulated personal sin; though like all of us they are subject to the effects of Original Sin. There is nothing in other words that they could stand in judgment for having never willingly transgressed his divine justice, so they would not exist in separation from God. He did however say that the manner of salvation would not be like that of a person who had struggled with sin. Their perception of the glory of God would be different than for instance from someone who had seen and battled with the side of darkness, but who had ultimately accepted the free gift of God’s love. The question then to me is not really about the assurance of salvation, but the nature of salvation, because what is being saved if you have no comprehension of the possibility of not being saved. I would assume that in these cases salvation itself would be qualitatively different.

That certainly is a sensical position. Latins speak of the beatific vision and the saints with greater merit having a more intense or full (any word here is really pretty useless but hopefully you know approximately what I mean) beatific vision.

Our Lord spoke of storing up treasures in heaven. Clearly, the infant which dies, whatever their final destination, did not have the opportunity to 'store up treasure in heaven' and this makes abortion a spiritual tragedy, even assuming infants go directly to heaven.

All of this assumes as a given that the joys of heaven or the pains of hell exist in greater and lesser degrees.

I would also take it to be a given that there is a radical difference between the highest hell and the lowest heaven. The meat of the question I think still is, what makes up the chasm between the two?

As a Roman Christian, what I would say is that no matter what the natural virtues or vices a man possesses, heaven cannot be attained without supernatural life, without being born again by water and the spirit to paraphrase Our Lord Himself.

Are infants born with supernatural, spiritual life and grace? I don't believe that they are. Otherwise there would be no point in baptising infants. If they do not have this supernatural life then they must receive it somehow. It would seem that the only way this could happen is a gratuitous act by God to grant the infant supernatural life apart from baptism.

I'm not going to say God does not act gratuitously in this way. The truth is that I don't know what God does in such situations and I realize that the very topic is EXTREMELY sensitive. My point really is to get a handle on where Eastern Christians are coming from in terms of the spiritual state we are born into.

Akathist
22nd August 2006, 11:50 PM
My point really is to get a handle on where Eastern Christians are coming from in terms of the spiritual state we are born into.

This is a mystery. We don't feel that everything needs to be codexed and categorized. Some things about the way God has things set up is not for us to know.

Ilian
22nd August 2006, 11:58 PM
Servus Iesu,

What God has shown us is that the sacraments are visible and tangible channels of grace. That is why it is so imperative to baptize, because it is an impartation of grace and the entrance in to the kingdom of God for all of us who are born in to the chaos and shattered spiritual world of Original Sin.

God is certainly not bound by his sacraments, and therefore one can rightly perceive that grace can be found outside of the sacraments. In which manner, or in what capacity, we simply cannot say. It is unknown to us how grace is to be found outside the sacraments. That is why we must in all instances, and to the greatest extent possible, follow the path shown to us to seek the fulfillment of the sacraments - trusting that in the exceptions where they are not present, that the mercy of God may be found. Beyond that all we can do is pray for the souls of the reposed.

Servus Iesu
22nd August 2006, 11:58 PM
This is a mystery. We don't feel that everything needs to be codexed and categorized. Some things about the way God has things set up is not for us to know.

I'm not sure you can just say it is a mystery. Are human beings born into a supernatural life of grace? That seems like a pretty basic question about salvation to me and the Eastern Churches must have some answer.

irishseventysix
23rd August 2006, 03:58 AM
I'm not sure you can just say it is a mystery. Are human beings born into a supernatural life of grace? That seems like a pretty basic question about salvation to me and the Eastern Churches must have some answer.
I'm not very experienced here....but to my knowledge, we do not baptize infants because they need baptism to be saved. To say that they did would be to shorten God's arms in the "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy" department. HE decides who will be with Him. Not us. He is not restricted to the sacraments He's given us.

We believe that part of the onus for salvation is on us to choose to love Him. So if it were washing away Original Sin in Baptism to "save" our infants that we were doing, we'd be violating their free will and being awfully arrogant in the process. And while Baptism washes away sin, it is not a prerequisite to salvation (e.g. the thief on the cross). We believe that Baptism is a sacrament that was given to us is practiced unto our salvation. But the grace God gives us through it doesn't violate our free will if we choose against Him.

We are simply being obedient to Christ and bringing them into the Church, letting them be blessed by the grace of God through the sacramental life as it has been revealed, giving them a community and environment infused thoroughly with the grace of God. And if that child dies beforehand, or never had the opportunity to be born, we trust that our good God who loves humankind will judge rightly.

To judge the soul of an infant is not our responsibility. To judge others or even ourselves is not our responsibility, either. It is supremely arrogant to do so. We must trust our God who loves humankind.

That's as far as I know. Forgive me if I'm missing something.

Ilian
23rd August 2006, 11:21 AM
I'm not very experienced here....but to my knowledge, we do not baptize infants because they need baptism to be saved.

Everyone needs baptism to be saved, which is why we do baptize infants. What we don't know is what happens in the case where there is no baptism. That is where we pray and trust that the mercy of God will provide in the place of baptism.

Akathist
23rd August 2006, 01:03 PM
Everyone needs baptism to be saved, which is why we do baptize infants. What we don't know is what happens in the case where there is no baptism. That is where we pray and trust that the mercy of God will provide in the place of baptism.

Please back that up with evidence this idea that "everyone needs baptism to be saved." This is not what I have been taught.

Though I agree fully with the rest of your post.

irishseventysix
23rd August 2006, 01:12 PM
Everyone needs baptism to be saved, which is why we do baptize infants. What we don't know is what happens in the case where there is no baptism. That is where we pray and trust that the mercy of God will provide in the place of baptism.
Then why don't we have a set specific period of time in which we must baptize our infants? I know of children who have been baptized anywhere between 7 weeks and 3 years.

I know that Christ said that we need to be born again, and of water and the Spirit. But to my ex-Protestant mind, to say something is necessary for salvation is to say that if you're not baptized, He's not going to save you. That part is nonsense.

The grace we receive from being baptized of water and the spirit is monumental, and it is grace that will help us live lives of continually choosing his salvation over sin.

Again, the thief on the cross comes to mind here. Baptism wasn't "necessary" for his salvation. But for those who will live long after their baptism, the grace imparted to the baptized by God through the sacrament is, I would say, necessary for them to keep choosing our Lord...necessary for the lifelong vocation of taking up one's cross.

But, if I understand this correctly, God isn't going to say to people in the end, "You love me, but since you weren't baptized, you can't come in." The fullness of the love and understanding of the things of God that one has will be increased through the illumination of baptism.

Again, if I'm not seeing this accurately, let me know. It might just be a game of semantics for my still Protestant Evangelical-influenced mind.

Ilian
23rd August 2006, 01:26 PM
Hi Xenia, this is from the The Orthodox Catechism: Basic Teachings of the Orthodox Faith (http://orthodoxcatechism.org/) by Metropolitan Archbishop Sotirios of The Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Toronto, Canada, 1989. The section on Baptism says the following:


Baptism

The first of the seven sacraments of our Church is Baptism. It is sent from God. Christ Himself commanded it when he said to His disciples: "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew, 28:19); elsewhere He said "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned" (Mark, 16:15-16).


In these words of Christ we see firstly that He established baptism, and secondly that baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation: "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."


It should be noted here that, even though He was sinless, Christ was baptized He was baptized so that He could teach us in a practical way that we benefit from being baptized.


The command and example of Christ were applied by the Apostles, and are and will continue to be applied till the end of the world by the Church.


Actually, baptism should take place after catechism. The person who will be baptized is first of all catechized. He is taught the Orthodox faith. He accepts the faith and is then baptized. Infant baptism has prevailed, however, even from the first centuries of Christianity. Why? The reason is that no one should die unbaptized, since there is no salvation for him who is not baptized. You may ask what happens to a little baby that dies before it is baptized? We cannot answer this question. What we do know is that the baptized person is saved. What will happen to the person who apart from his own will, dies unbaptized is a matter for God and He will judge. We cannot know the will of God, nor can we become judges of God. What happens, though, with the catechesis of an infant? All the responsibility of the catechesis falls on the godparent and the parents of the baptized. They must catechize the baptized infant.


Baptism is performed with three immersions in water, just as Christ ordained, "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." The Orthodox Church does not accept baptism by sprinkling or pouring of water, unless there is absolute need for it. It does not accept these other forms of baptism because the very word baptism means immersion, plunging in water. Christ said "baptized" not "sprinkled."


He who is baptized is cleansed from original sin and from all other sins that he has committed up to the time of his baptism. His immersion in water symbolizes death. The sinful man dies. The baptized person is reborn and becomes a member of the Church, the mystical body of Christ. He puts on Christ. "Those who are baptized in Christ, put on Christ." After baptism, or rather with baptism, he enters the Kingdom of God. He is saved. This creates a problem, however. Because he has entered the Kingdom of God, because he is saved, does this mean he will remain there? No. That will depend on the individual and the effort he puts into not soiling the new garment again with sin, and not dirtying the beauty of the soul. We say that it depends on the individual because "God desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth" (1 Timothy, 2:4). Although with baptism he is cleansed from all sin and from original sin, the Christian does not cease to be free, and not unlike his forefathers who disobeyed God, so too after his baptism he may not follow God or do His will, but rather do his own will. St. Paul tells us "Do you know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the father, we too might walk in newness of life" (Romans, 6:3-6). This is how it is. We should not be serving sin and working for the sake of sin after baptism. Unfortunately, though, many of us return to our old ways. Though we entered the Kingdom of God through baptism, it is possible to be driven out from the Kingdom of God by the sins that we commit, just as Adam and Eve were driven out of Paradise.


Baptism is also called illumination because with it man comes out of the darkness of sin and into the light of righteousness--the light of Christ. He is illumined. He becomes wholly light and life, and radiates divine light and spirituality. In the past, the catechumens were called the "illumined." Baptism is also called the fountain of renewal because man is reborn through baptism.
Christ, You are the true light Who illumines and sanctifies every man who enters the world, You who by deed and word taught and established the sacrament of baptism in order for man to be cleansed from original sin, from all sin, Who gave baptism for the death of the old man, and for the reborn man to become a member of Your Church--Your mystical body--and to work no longer in sin and for sin, make, O Lord, everyone accept this great gift of baptism. Make the baptized and reborn return no more to the old deception, nor become slaves of sin. Make them remain in the light, in freedom, and in Your grace, love, and kingdom. Make them remain holy, honourable and healthy members of Your mystical body as long as they are on earth, and after death grant them eternal life and Your kingdom. Accept O Lord our thanksgiving and doxology, for to You belongs all glory, thanksgiving, praise, and worship.

I want to say again, I understand this is an extremely sensitive subject. It is something very personal for me, and I understand for many others.

What I take out of this is essentially what I have stated as my understanding. Baptism is necessary for salvation. In the cases where we cannot fulfill the sacrament of baptism for whatever reason, like a child aborted before birth, we must trust the mercy of God and that he provides for the grace that could not be imparted through the sacrament itself. The need for the sacrament itself is not obviated, it is just fulfilled in a way that to us is unknown.

irishseventysix
23rd August 2006, 01:41 PM
Hi Xenia, this is from the The Orthodox Catechism: Basic Teachings of the Orthodox Faith (http://orthodoxcatechism.org/) by Metropolitan Archbishop Sotirios of The Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Toronto, Canada, 1989. The section on Baptism says the following:



I want to say again, I understand this is an extremely sensitive subject. It is something very personal for me, and I understand for many others.

What I take out of this is essentially what I have stated as my understanding. Baptism is necessary for salvation. In the cases where we cannot fulfill the sacrament of baptism for whatever reason, like a child aborted before birth, we must trust the mercy of God and that he provides for the grace that could not be imparted through the sacrament itself. The need for the sacrament itself is not obviated, it is just fulfilled in a way that to us is unknown.

Again, it might be a semantics issue, but to say that "we know that the baptized person is saved" is confusing to me because we all say that just because you're a baptized Orthodox person doesn't imply that you're "saved". Again, this takes away the validity of our own volition and the need to take up one's cross daily and follow our Lord.

According to my Godfather, in Church history, when serious inquirers or catechumens were killed before receiving baptism, they were considered as part of the Church, as their baptism was a "baptism of blood".

So with that in mind, would it be right to say that Baptism is necessary for salvation, but that there is a mystery involved where God might consider as Baptism something other than the traditional way of conducting it? Of course, in all cases, we can't judge as to whether or not people are "saved", including infants, traditional baptism or, as alluded to here, no "baptism". That's not for us to know.

irishseventysix
23rd August 2006, 01:56 PM
Again, it might be a semantics issue, but to say that "we know that the baptized person is saved" is confusing to me because we all say that just because you're a baptized Orthodox person doesn't imply that you're "saved". Again, this takes away the validity of our own volition and the need to take up one's cross daily and follow our Lord.

According to my Godfather, in Church history, when serious inquirers or catechumens were killed before receiving baptism, they were considered as part of the Church, as their baptism was a "baptism of blood".

So with that in mind, would it be right to say that Baptism is necessary for salvation, but that there is a mystery involved where God might consider as Baptism something other than the traditional way of conducting it? Of course, in all cases, we can't judge as to whether or not people are "saved", including infants, traditional baptism or, as alluded to here, no "baptism". That's not for us to know.
It seems to me that we Orthodox have a different understanding of infant Baptism. It seems that the Catholics believe that the child will be condemned if they aren't baptised and that's why it's done. In the Orthodox view, it's viewed as necessary, but it seems like it's done as neither sufficient for salvation (the more tradtional Baptist/Church of Christ view) which takes away our free will, nor as a prerequisite of salvation (the more RC view), which takes away God's free will. It's more paradoxical, more mysterious on our end.

Theophorus
23rd August 2006, 02:11 PM
Are infants born with supernatural, spiritual life and grace? I don't believe that they are. Otherwise there would be no point in baptising infants. If they do not have this supernatural life then they must receive it somehow. It would seem that the only way this could happen is a gratuitous act by God to grant the infant supernatural life apart from baptism.

I agree with this, and this why we baptize infants. To bring them into the promise. But the absence of "supernatural, spiritual life and grace" does not automatically mean that one is lost.

I was taught St. Gregory's assesment on how an infant would perceive the Glory of God if it was not baptized. However, they are sinless, or rather, the devil has no claim over an infant. So they are not cut off from God without this grace.

Baptism is seen as a type of circumcision in Orthodoxy. And it is seen just as much as a new birth or resurrection into the spiritual life, as well as a cleansing from sin. It is seen, as you have stated, as participating in a life of grace. This is why we do not withold the Eucharist from infants, since this is the fullest participation.

Ilian
23rd August 2006, 03:25 PM
It seems that the Catholics believe that the child will be condemned if they aren't baptised and that's why it's done.

That’s not their dogmatic position, though some individuals have historically have held this position. I would suggest for confirmation, and if you’re really interested, you post a query in the Roman Catholic sub-forum asking them what they believe.

In the Orthodox view, it's viewed as necessary, but it seems like it's done as neither sufficient for salvation (the more tradtional Baptist/Church of Christ view) which takes away our free will, nor as a prerequisite of salvation (the more RC view), which takes away God's free will. It's more paradoxical, more mysterious on our end.

It is unclear to me what Protestants believe in regards to this issue, and it wouldn’t surprise me to find that they have a range of disparate and potentially contradictory beliefs. I don’t know enough about the various Protestant confessions and ecclesial communities to say however. Catholics to my knowledge believe essentially what we do in regards to baptism.

All of that however doesn’t really matter, because our faith is not defined in reference to what other groups may or may not believe about baptism. The part about the exercise of free will just seems to me to be a dilemma created where one doesn’t exist. An infant who is baptized and dies certainly would be saved, and their free will would have nothing to do with this. Baptism is necessary for salvation, and it is expressly God’s will as stated in divine revelation that we baptize. Where the sacrament cannot be accomplished as shown to us, we trust that God can and will make up for the missing grace that baptism imparts. How this happens is unknown, and this is not a restriction in the least on God’s will.

Servus Iesu
24th August 2006, 01:06 PM
In my understanding, every human being is born into bondage to death and the old creation (all that is passing away). We are born without the supernatural graces needed for a supernatural end (heaven). Thus Our Lord:

3 Jesus answered and said to him: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith to him: How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born again? 5 Jesus answered: Amen, amen, I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh: and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Wonder not that I said to thee: You must be born again. 8 The Spirit breatheth where he will and thou hearest his voice: but thou knowest not whence he cometh and whither he goeth. So is every one that is born of the Spirit. 9 Nicodemus answered and said to him: How can these things be done? 10 Jesus answered and said to him: Art thou a master in Israel, and knowest not these things? 11 Amen, amen, I say to thee that we speak what we know and we testify what we have seen: and you receive not our testimony. 12 If I have spoken to you earthly things, and you believe not: how will you believe, if I shall speak to you heavenly things? 13 And no man hath ascended into heaven, but he that descended from heaven, the Son of man who is in heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert, so must the Son of man be lifted up: 15 That whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting. 16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting

That which is born of the flesh is flesh, in other words we are born into the flesh with only the life of the flesh. We must be born again in order to have the life of the spirit. When we are born again we are transferred from the old creation and bondage to death, to the new creation in Christ Jesus. We are born as Sons of Adam and born again as Sons of God.

10 He was in the world: and the world was made by him: and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own: and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. 13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us (and we saw his glory, the glory as it were of the only begotten of the Father), full of grace and truth.

It is then clear from the Scriptures that we must be born again and receive the life of the Spirit to reach the Kingdom of Heaven. No one is born with this supernatural life. Therefore, if unbaptized babies do go to heaven it is an entirely gratuitous act on the part of God, not something He is bound to do in justice.

The other possibility I see is that unbaptized children might be brought into heaven by the merits of the saints. Could not the Virgin and Mother of Mercy deliver souls into heaven by her infinitely powerful intercession? I don't think we can assume that unbaptized babies are in heaven, but I think that we can have confidence that our prayers can avail much for them, especially if we entrust these infant souls to Our Lady.

Theophorus
24th August 2006, 04:50 PM
It is then clear from the Scriptures that we must be born again and receive the life of the Spirit to reach the Kingdom of Heaven. No one is born with this supernatural life. Therefore, if unbaptized babies do go to heaven it is an entirely gratuitous act on the part of God, not something He is bound to do in justice.

It's not a matter of justice. It is a matter of Sin, and the purpose of the life of the Spirit. They are related to each other. Thus the Orthodox concept of Theosis.

In Orthodox soretiology all come into the presence of Christ, the desecent into Hades was not just a point in time, but is a timeless act, just as calvary is. The child has death, but not its sting; sin.