View Full Version : Is this right?
Adammi
22nd August 2006, 10:03 AM
Ok, so I've never very well understood infant baptism, much less infant chrismation and communion.
Well, the other night I wasn't even thinking along these lines and this view of it just hit me. So, please, if this isn't correct tell me.
Most evangelical Protestants view baptism like this: God gives his grace to an individual, the individual then accepts God's grace through faith, and then is called to do good works. One of the first good works a new Christian should do is to be baptized. (this has been my view)
But this is what just hit me:
Baptism is not MAN's work of FAITH, it is GOD's work of GRACE.
God gives his grace to an individual through baptism, that grace then calls the individual to faith and works. So, since it is God's work and not man's it can be given to an infant.
Is that a correct view, that Baptism is God's work of grace and not Man's work of faith? If so, I guess this would also apply to chrismation and communion?
Theophorus
22nd August 2006, 10:14 AM
Ok, so I've never very well understood infant baptism, much less infant chrismation and communion.
Well, the other night I wasn't even thinking along these lines and this view of it just hit me. So, please, if this isn't correct tell me.
Most evangelical Protestants view baptism like this: God gives his grace to an individual, the individual then accepts God's grace through faith, and then is called to do good works. One of the first good works a new Christian should do is to be baptized. (this has been my view)
But this is what just hit me:
Baptism is not MAN's work of FAITH, it is GOD's work of GRACE.
God gives his grace to an individual through baptism, that grace then calls the individual to faith and works. So, since it is God's work and not man's it can be given to an infant.
Is that a correct view, that Baptism is God's work of grace and not Man's work of faith? If so, I guess this would also apply to chrismation and communion?
Yes you are right. Baptism is a sacrament, it is grace. It is a gift.
Argent
22nd August 2006, 10:16 AM
As a Southern Baptist we believe that there are two "ordinances" commanded by the NT. Baptism and Holy Communion. To us, both are symbolic, and we do them out of obedience. Salvation is not contingent upon being baptized or opon participating in Communion. We immerse in water because that's the way we believe Jesus was baptized by John the Baptist.
Although I don't agree with infant baptism, I don't think it affects one's salvation, and if my Chrisitan brethren want to perform infant baptism, well, that's between them and God and really none of my business.:)
Eusebios
22nd August 2006, 10:50 AM
Here is an interesting tidbit from Fr. Raphael Vereshack from another discussion:
You wrote, "a recognition of preverbal personhood" which I think is a wonderful way of putting it. In an Orthodox understanding from the first moment of conception a human person is made in the image & likeness of God. As such it needs God's grace & guidance so as to grow both physically & spiritually. And this is so before the child can conceptualise about this. I was told about this question-"just as we would not deprive a child of physical food before they can understand intellectually what food is- so we would not deprive the child of the Body & Blood of Christ." I suppose from here we could state that the means of entering into this life in the Church should not be deprived the child.
I want to add as a priest that it is quite striking how little babies & infants respond to the Cup when their parents bring them from the earliest moments after their baptism. Often they receive in the most peaceful & way some with smiles on their little faces. On the other hand you should see how a child reacts when their parents rarely come to church & only bring their child to the Cup once in awhile. How these children roar & wave their arms- some have the most dreadful looks on their faces. How instructive to parents to raise their children by having them always within the grace filled arms of the Church. Beyond our human understanding, infants definitely feel the grace of Christ within the Church and respond positively to this.
In Christ- Fr Raphael
The full context of the discussion can be found here
http://www.monachos.net/forum/t1638
I especially like the way he relates it to food. Do we make infants wait to be fed until they are old enough to understand what food is? Do we deny them shelter because they do not understand structural engineering? Why then would we deny their identification with Christ through baptism, or the fountain of immortality via communion?
It seems to me that to do so is in fact cruel. It should be noted that the two main Protestant reformers, Luther="http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/wittenberg/concord/web/smc-03e.html" and Calvin="http://incolor.inetnebr.com/stuart/baptclvn.htm" also were supporters of infant baptism.
Hmm, sorry about the odd formatting, but the insert a link option doesn't seem to be functioning correctly.
Hope you find this helpful.
In Xp,
Eusebios
:bow:
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