Fundmentalist Liberals

[Tomoz]

I know it seems like a contradiction in terms, but I think it is a real problem, particularly in the Anglican church.
The term 'fundamentalist' has changed since its original inception, describing not those who hold to the 'fundamentals' of the faith, but rather an extreme and/or close minded (and yes, in some cases violent) religious view.
I thought I'd suggest that, while liberal christians are often taken to be the opposite end of the spectrum to fundamentalists, liberalism is in many cases being taken to a close-minded extreme that shares some of the characteristics of what liberals themselves would term 'fundamentalism'.
This, I find, is the case with some priests in my diocese, to whom any christian who doesn't conform to their rather hard-nosed liberalism they immediately brand 'fundamentalist' and deride as someone who is taking the 'easy way out' when it comes to theology. It can make it quite hard to be an orthodox believer.
So while we need to try and move way from conservative fundamentalism, let's also avoid liberal fundamentalism! This isn't a point of belief, but refers more to our interactions with our Christian brothers and sisters - perhaps we should encourage one another to keep our minds open to others' christian viewpoints, rather than arrogantly tarring one other with the stereotype of 'fundamentalist' or 'heretic' before we've taken the oppurtunity to sit down with a nice cup of tea and have a chat.

Watch out I don't hit you as I fall off my soapbox...:wave:

[CSMR]

Well, if you shouldn't call people fundamentalists... then you shouldn't call people fundamentalist liberals, no?

There are some people who are very fond of fixed simple formulations. I suppose these people are called fundamentalists. Well many people say creeds who aren't but these aren't that simple. Liberalism is quite a simple religion but avoids being fundamentist by holding to positions which are considered "common sense" and so don't need to be formulated.

[karen freeinchristman]

I know it seems like a contradiction in terms, but I think it is a real problem, particularly in the Anglican church.
The term 'fundamentalist' has changed since its original inception, describing not those who hold to the 'fundamentals' of the faith, but rather an extreme and/or close minded (and yes, in some cases violent) religious view.
I thought I'd suggest that, while liberal christians are often taken to be the opposite end of the spectrum to fundamentalists, liberalism is in many cases being taken to a close-minded extreme that shares some of the characteristics of what liberals themselves would term 'fundamentalism'.
This, I find, is the case with some priests in my diocese, to whom any christian who doesn't conform to their rather hard-nosed liberalism they immediately brand 'fundamentalist' and deride as someone who is taking the 'easy way out' when it comes to theology. It can make it quite hard to be an orthodox believer.
So while we need to try and move way from conservative fundamentalism, let's also avoid liberal fundamentalism! This isn't a point of belief, but refers more to our interactions with our Christian brothers and sisters - perhaps we should encourage one another to keep our minds open to others' christian viewpoints, rather than arrogantly tarring one other with the stereotype of 'fundamentalist' or 'heretic' before we've taken the oppurtunity to sit down with a nice cup of tea and have a chat.

Watch out I don't hit you as I fall off my soapbox...:wave:

'Tis true. I sometimes find myself edging towards a slightly bigoted view whereby MY beliefs are THE correct beliefs to hold, and anyone else's are just wrong. :sigh:
So I can't cast the first stone.

The answer? Perhaps if we are more conscious of it in ourselves, and if we can point it out gently to our friends when they do it (maybe). Awareness, awareness, awareness.

[DeoJuvante]

Ahem. The problem is if one decries any form of distate for other people's views then one ends up with radical relativism (which could also be described as a fundamentalist view). The question then, is where do we draw the line?

[Tomoz]

Hi CSMR :wave:

Well, if you shouldn't call people fundamentalists... then you shouldn't call people fundamentalist liberals, no?

My point isn't so much that we shouldn't call people fundamentalist - indeed, some Christians will happily use this term to describe their own beliefs. Rather, in my own experience, people with liberal theological views often decry orthodoxy as fundamentalist, and I don't think that is helpful or accurate. Perhaps this is something that is perculiar to my area and my experience - looking back I've been a bit heavy handed on the generalisations, sorry about that!

There are some people who are very fond of fixed simple formulations. I suppose these people are called fundamentalists. Well many people say creeds who aren't but these aren't that simple. Liberalism is quite a simple religion but avoids being fundamentist by holding to positions which are considered "common sense" and so don't need to be formulated.

I haven't found liberal Christianity to be simple at all!! On the contrary, when I have heard sermons that are coming from a liberal perspective I'm always left confused and unsatisfied by the theological razor's edge they walk in trying to link their position back to Christianity and the Bible.

[Tomoz]

'Tis true. I sometimes find myself edging towards a slightly bigoted view whereby MY beliefs are THE correct beliefs to hold, and anyone else's are just wrong. :sigh:
So I can't cast the first stone.

The answer? Perhaps if we are more conscious of it in ourselves, and if we can point it out gently to our friends when they do it (maybe). Awareness, awareness, awareness.

Thanks for the post Karen - my OP is a bit pontifical, sorry about that! I need to remember my prejudices too...

[Tomoz]

Hi buddy :)

Ahem. The problem is if one decries any form of distate for other people's views then one ends up with radical relativism (which could also be described as a fundamentalist view). The question then, is where do we draw the line?

I couldn't agree more. I think we do need to be confident with our own beliefs, and be fully prepared to disagree when it is called for. But that can only take place when we have an adequate knowledge of where the other person is coming from, because it is only then that it can be done in love and respect. I grew up in a liberal church, and its only been in recent years that I've realised, through talking to people and reading books, that evangelicals aren't a monolith of fundamentalist extremists, and in some cases are actually quite progressive! So, the indoctrination can happen on both sides of the theological spectrum.

[AngCath]

I know it seems like a contradiction in terms, but I think it is a real problem, particularly in the Anglican church.
The term 'fundamentalist' has changed since its original inception, describing not those who hold to the 'fundamentals' of the faith, but rather an extreme and/or close minded (and yes, in some cases violent) religious view.
I thought I'd suggest that, while liberal christians are often taken to be the opposite end of the spectrum to fundamentalists, liberalism is in many cases being taken to a close-minded extreme that shares some of the characteristics of what liberals themselves would term 'fundamentalism'.
This, I find, is the case with some priests in my diocese, to whom any christian who doesn't conform to their rather hard-nosed liberalism they immediately brand 'fundamentalist' and deride as someone who is taking the 'easy way out' when it comes to theology. It can make it quite hard to be an orthodox believer.
So while we need to try and move way from conservative fundamentalism, let's also avoid liberal fundamentalism! This isn't a point of belief, but refers more to our interactions with our Christian brothers and sisters - perhaps we should encourage one another to keep our minds open to others' christian viewpoints, rather than arrogantly tarring one other with the stereotype of 'fundamentalist' or 'heretic' before we've taken the oppurtunity to sit down with a nice cup of tea and have a chat.

Watch out I don't hit you as I fall off my soapbox...:wave:

When I read this I immediately thought of ++Rowan Williams comments in Where God Happens that we need to return the Church to a state of silence and contemplation to allow ourselves to hear God speak.

[karen freeinchristman]

we need to return the Church to a state of silence and contemplation to allow ourselves to hear God speak.

Amen to that! :amen: