Floyd Landis

[ZiSunka]

What's going on with him?

He's come up with another improbable explanation for what happened at the Tour de France:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14059185/

[MrJim]

I guess we wait for the 2d test results-heard they were coming out Saturday?

Can't imagine any guy would dope up knowing they are going to be tested...

[ZiSunka]

I can't either. It would be supremely stupid!

[Andyman_1970]

It would be very stupid considering some of the biggest names in pro cycling were banned from the Tour (literally the day of the start) due to the Spanish doping investigation.

For the life of me I can't figure out how testoserone helps a cyclist and I am one.

Hopefully it was just a false reading............

[ZiSunka]

It would be very stupid considering some of the biggest names in pro cycling were banned from the Tour (literally the day of the start) due to the Spanish doping investigation.

For the life of me I can't figure out how testoserone helps a cyclist and I am one.

Hopefully it was just a false reading............

They are saying it enhances muscle strength and stamina, but they are also saying increased test/epitest ratios are the result of use of a certain kind of anabolic steroid that can be obtained over the internet without a perscription.

[AmishBoy]

odd. last i heard he was just saying he has always had high levels. who knows.

[ZiSunka]

odd. last i heard he was just saying he has always had high levels. who knows.

That wouldn't be borne out with his history. Even during the race, he only had high levels than one day. And he had been tested in four different races already this year and this is the first one with a high level, he said on NPR last week.

He should just be quiet until the results come out. The more he talks, the more guilty he sounds.

[Andyman_1970]

They are saying it enhances muscle strength and stamina, but they are also saying increased test/epitest ratios are the result of use of a certain kind of anabolic steroid that can be obtained over the internet without a perscription.

Exactly, how does one dose help a cyclist? Testoserone has to be taken over a long period of time to build muscle..........not once during a bike race. So this makes no sense to me why one would take it to gain a performance advantage.

Also, it wasn't a high level of testosrone he tested positive for, it was an abnormal ratio of testoserone to epitestoerone (or something like that).

[Andyman_1970]

He should just be quiet until the results come out. The more he talks, the more guilty he sounds.

The European press already thinks he's guilty............so you kind of have to say something otherwise they really think you're guilty.

[ZiSunka]

Yes, but at least make one explanation sound plausible. :(

[Andyman_1970]

Yes, but at least make one explanation sound plausible. :(

As a cylist who races myself, and one who's followed the Tour for many years, I've yet to hear any explaination that made sense from a performance enhancing (as far as cycling goes) perspective.

[ZiSunka]

As a cylist who races myself, and one who's followed the Tour for many years, I've yet to hear any explaination that made sense from a performance enhancing (as far as cycling goes) perspective.

It's hard to make up a good enough story to cover a lie that is so easily exposed, I guess.

The only thing he hasn't blamed is global warming, but I expect that to be his next explanation.

[AmishBoy]

It's hard to make up a good enough story to cover a lie that is so easily exposed, I guess.

The only thing he hasn't blamed is global warming, but I expect that to be his next explanation.

Lol, "Due to the effects of global warming and general pollution in the air some peoples bodies are forced to produce more testosterone to keep the body cooled and to strengthen it against pollutants. Because I am outdoors more than most the effect is more noticable in my situation." -Floyd Landis

[ZiSunka]

Lol, "Due to the effects of global warming and general pollution in the air some peoples bodies are forced to produce more testosterone to keep the body cooled and to strengthen it against pollutants. Because I am outdoors more than most the effect is more noticable in my situation." -Floyd Landis

It's as good as his dehyrdation explanation. Especially after he credited his high level of hydration as part of the reason he was able to rally to come from behind like that.

Maybe this one hasn't been presented yet:

"Because I often train at night, cosmic rays caused my testosterone/epitestosterone ratio to be skewed. Others, who train during the daylight hours, aren't exposed to those cosmic rays. I was expecially vulnerable to the effects of cosmic rays because I was out drinking the night before. High levels of blood alcohol trap the cosmic rays inside the body where they bounce around the inner organs creating all sorts of hormone imbalances."

[Andyman_1970]

Alcohol consumption will also affect that ratio.........he admitted to having something to drink after the bad day he had on stage 16.

[ZiSunka]

Alcohol consumption will also affect that ratio.........he admitted to having something to drink after the bad day he had on stage 16.

Yes, but the doctors have said he would have had to consume a lethal amount of whiskey to alter the ratio that much.

He admits to having 5 shots of whiskey plus some beer, but the doctors have said he would have had to drink five quarts to achieve those results.

[Andyman_1970]

Remember this is a person who was at their lactate threshold for at least and hour and a half that day. What Dr's say about what would affect "normal" people does not relate to these guys with respect to what will or won't affect their bodies.

In the 2003 Tour, on the individual time trial, Lance got seriously dehydrated. That condition would have killed a "normal" person in about 15 mintues, given the physical exertion involved.

I understand what you're saying LL, and I'm not being argumentative........it's just these guys are not "normal"...........LOL :)

[ZiSunka]

Remember this is a person who was at their lactate threshold for at least and hour and a half that day. What Dr's say about what would affect "normal" people does not relate to these guys with respect to what will or won't affect their bodies.

In the 2003 Tour, on the individual time trial, Lance got seriously dehydrated. That condition would have killed a "normal" person in about 15 mintues, given the physical exertion involved.

I understand what you're saying LL, and I'm not being argumentative........it's just these guys are not "normal"...........LOL :)

But they aren't superhuman, either. Five quarts of whiskey consumed in one night would kill even the strongest athlete. And after stage 11, Floyd said he had been able to stay completely hydrated because he was out in front with the support vehicle that kept him supplied with all the drinks he could stand. Also, he didn't have any symptoms of dehydration, a serious and life-threatening condition.

I'm not saying he is guilty, only that he should stop offering explanations. Everyone he gives makes him look more guilty because they are so lousy. Science and common sense don't back up his explanations.

[Andyman_1970]

But they aren't superhuman, either. Five quarts of whiskey consumed in one night would kill even the strongest athlete. And after stage 11, Floyd said he had been able to stay completely hydrated because he was out in front with the support vehicle that kept him supplied with all the drinks he could stand. Also, he didn't have any symptoms of dehydration, a serious and life-threatening condition.

I never mentioned he was dehydrated. I simply used Lance as an example of they can endure things that normal people would not be able to, and as such, their physiology is different than “normal” people.

Stage 11 was 7 days before stage 16 on which Floyd “bonked”, so his hydration on stage 11 is irrelevant to his condition on stage 16. When an athlete “bonks” their body chemistry is all out of whack. It wouldn’t surprise me, if even a small amount of alcohol, along with his messed up body chemistry contributed to such an abnormal ratio reading. I’ve read more than one Dr. suggest the same thing with regards to Floyd’s testosterone ratio.

I'm not saying he is guilty, only that he should stop offering explanations. Everyone he gives makes him look more guilty because they are so lousy. Science and common sense don't back up his explanations.

Actually the science regarding this condition, an abnormal ratio, is actually quite lacking, every instance of a cyclist testing positive for an abnormal ratio has been able to prove it was because of naturally occurring circumstances. The WADA readily agree’s there is something to be desired regarding their testosterone testing.

Technically an abnormal ratio is not “doping” per se, testosterone is not a banned substance according to the UCI.
]

[Andyman_1970]

Not to mention for the life of me I can't understand why (if he did in fact take testosterone) taking testosterone would help a cyclist three quarters of the way through a 2000 mile bike race.

[ZiSunka]

I never mentioned he was dehydrated. I simply used Lance as an example of they can endure things that normal people would not be able to, and as such, their physiology is different than “normal” people.

Yes, but the idea that he was dehydrated has been completely discreditted, as has been the idea that whiskey caused the imbalance.


Stage 11 was 7 days before stage 16 on which Floyd “bonked”, so his hydration on stage 11 is irrelevant to his condition on stage 16.

My mistake. I typed the wrong number. It was on stage 16 that he was so far out ahead of everyone else that he was actually riding beside the supply truck that kept giving him all the water he wanted.


When an athlete “bonks” their body chemistry is all out of whack. It wouldn’t surprise me, if even a small amount of alcohol, along with his messed up body chemistry contributed to such an abnormal ratio reading. I’ve read more than one Dr. suggest the same thing with regards to Floyd’s testosterone ratio.

Nope, even his own doctor has said it can't explain his ratio. It might have contrbuted to a small amount of the imbalance, like less than 5%, but overall, he would have needed to drink 5 quarts to get those results. Two quarts would have knocked him out of the race do to hangover, three quarts would have killed him. His doctor's theory is that the lab tech did the test wrong. I think Floyd should have stuck to that explanation until proven otherwise.


Actually the science regarding this condition, an abnormal ratio, is actually quite lacking, every instance of a cyclist testing positive for an abnormal ratio has been able to prove it was because of naturally occurring circumstances. The WADA readily agree’s there is something to be desired regarding their testosterone testing.

Which is why it's so ridiculous for him to be acting like a guilty man.


Technically an abnormal ratio is not “doping” per se, testosterone is not a banned substance according to the UCI.


True. They are saying the imbalance is a symptom of acute steroid use, and is not doping in and of itself.

[ZiSunka]

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=2277195 He not only tested positive, the results of other tests confirmed that the extra testosterone was exogenic, meaning it was not produced by Landis's body. :( The newest explanation: Someone spiked his water/whiskey/food with testosterone. :(

[ZiSunka]

I feel utterly and totally sad about this. I just feel so let down. His community and his family must feel devasted.

[MrJim]

bonehead move

[ZiSunka]

They said on the radio today that his mennonite community has unanimously said they stand behind him. It's the only good thing about this incident. :(

[theAmishGirl]

I really don't think he did it. I heard that they tested the racers 14 times before the race and 8 times during the race, during which all of Landis' tests were negative! Then one random day, he gets a positive reading with off the chart results! It just doesn't make sense. No one would take that high of a dose when they know they are going to be tested! BEsides- it takes up to 4 months before the effects of Testosterone take hold! Even if for some reason he did take it the final day of the race- he overcame the hill and won on his own! That dose won't even be effective for him for another 2 months at the least!!-------- On another note- I heard he was shunned from his community pretty much because he choose to become a professional athlete which isn't very approved of in the conservative circles...

[Andyman_1970]

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10658.0.html

http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/10660.0.html

[ZiSunka]

BEsides- it takes up to 4 months before the effects of Testosterone take hold!

I was talking to my cousin the doctor this week and he said it is a common misconception that steroids take months to be effective, but he said the effects of most hormones "take hold" very rapidly, like within minutes to hours. That's why people who are allergic to bees carry and "epi-pen" full of steroids that will stop an allergic reaction within seconds.

He reminded me about how quickly synthetic thyroid hormones worked for me. I took my first dose and started feeling better within hours. I got my first whole night's sleep in three years that night because of the drug.

Then we looked at some pictures of known steroid users, a couple of famous bodybuilders, before and after steroids, and with steroids they started to bulk up and get stronger within a few days of starting the drugs. Baseball players say they can hit the ball harder the next day.

Steroids and hormones can be fast-acting and can produce changes in the body very rapidly. Men undergoing estrogen therapy report that the growth of facial hair slows down the very next day after they start taking it.

It may take 4 months of continuous use to make significant and noticable changes in the body, but testosterone would give an athlete a boost right away.

[ZiSunka]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14222191/

I want to believe Floyd.

[ZiSunka]

I'm having trouble with new threads. Is anyone else?

[AmishBoy]

What kinda problems are you having?? And no I dont believe he did it.

[ZiSunka]

The supposed final word on what happened with Floyd Landis:

The other tests didn't come up positive because they weren't subjected to the isotope test. Landis tested positive for an elevated RATIO of testosterone to epitestosterone. You can still have a balanced ratio of those hormones, but still have elevated levels in your system. Also, both of those hormones can be synthesized. On the days Landis tested clean, I would bet that he was taking BOTH hormones to keep his ratio even. On the day he tested positive, he forgot to take (or didn't take enough) epitestosterone. After all, he was supposedly drinking whiskey and beer the night before, and perhaps a little hung over that morning... I bet that if Landis' other samples were re-tested for artificial testosterone, they would come up positive as well.