Cost of Discipleship

[RayJGentry]

Well, I'm starting Cost of Discipleship by Bonhoeffer for the third or fourth time. I'm basically just wondering if there would be interest if i would kind of post as i read it.

The point of it would be that as I'm reading we could discuss what I'm currently studying and I could get some insight and start some discussion on its topics. I would ask that we discuss the things I've posted about until i make a new post, then we move on to that. It would kind of be a way for all of us to go through it as I read it. That said, when the next topic I post is up, we would move on. The discussion could then be continued in a new thread.

I figure that will keep the topics we don't discuss much from being their own threads and the ones that garner discussion can be continued in a dedicated thread. I'm just wondering if there's interest and if we all think we could stick to the format if we do it.

[C.F.W. Walther]

This is a response I made in another thread about exactly the same theme: Cost of discipleship.



I saw a documentary on Bonhoeffen and Barth today and realized some disturbing facts. Certain things have been bothering me below the surface for many years and I remember asking poeple years ago "what would you do if a dictatorship threatenend to take your life if you answered in the affirmative that you were a Christian". I know there is no dictatorship in the US, as of fight now, but I think that Bonhoeffen's thesis of "cheap grace" hits home hard in todays age because of the deterioration and errosion of our faiths and our compromise on todays values. We've been assailed by "pressure" from secular groups to relent on our conservative beliefs and put in the corner of right wing radicals. The pressure to compromise oourselves is just as prevelent now as it was in Bonhoeffons time when Hitler was comming into power.

Excerpts form "The Cost of Discipleship" by Dietrich Bonhoeffer:
"Cheap grace means the justification of sin without the justification of the sinner. Grace alone does everything they say, and so everything can remain as it was before. "All for sin could not atone." Well, then, let the Christian live like the rest of the world, let him model himself on the world’s standards in every sphere of life, and not presumptuously aspire to live a different life under grace from his old life under sin. That was the heresy of the enthusiasts, the Anabaptists and their kind…."

"Christianity without discipleship is always Christianity without Christ. It remains an abstract idea, a myth which has a place for the Fatherhood of God, but omits Christ as the living Son. … There is trust in God, but no following of Christ.
He wants to follow, but feels obliged to insist on his own terms to the level of human understanding. The disciple places himself at the Master’s disposal, but at the same time retains the right to dictate his own terms. But then discipleship is no longer discipleship, but a program of our own to be arranged to suit ourselves, and to be judged in accordance with the standards of rational ethic."

This Sunday in church the pastor read the bible verse about the branches and Jesus as the vine and the one thing that stuck out was the part were Jesus says that the branches needed to be pruned to produce more fruit and if no fruit was evident then the branches were to be burned. That's a vivid example that "taking up our cross and following Jesus" is something that we have no idea of in today's age because we are too busy living "in the world". We don't want to go through the process of being "pruned". The Bible tells us of being tempered like steel and being rejected by our fellowman. As Bonhoeffen says we are not really followers of Christ but designers of our own discipleship on our own terms.

Bonhoeffen states, "It is not suffering per se but suffering-and-rejection, and not rejection for any cause of conviction of our own, but rejection for the sake of Christ. If our Christianity has ceased to be serious about discipleship, if we have watered down the gospel into emotional uplift which makes no costly demands and which fails to distinguish between natural and Christian existence, then we cannot help regarding the cross as an ordinary everyday calamity… We have then forgotten that the cross means rejection and shame as well as suffering."

In our daily lives we dont not want to hear of suffering because it doesn't seem to be a part of our reality of existance. We pass off suffering and trials as something that happend in biblical times or happened to Christian martyrs and we say "gee---isn't life hard enoough by itself?". We don't realize that the devils insidious attacks against us are cloaked in the worlds theology of secularism, humanisim, tolerance of alternate lifestyles, etc. and how it can work it's way into our lives so that we take it as an acceptable option.
I'm not advocating suffering for the sake of suffering but to step back and look at our lax approach to our discipleship and our unwillingness to suffer the arrows and slings of a Christian daily walk. To be willing to be bold, to step out and walk a Christian life and realize that we will take static for our beliefs. We will be spewed out if we are lukewarm and God will not recognize us if we don't recognize him to other people.

I think the whole subject is very relevent to todays churches. Christians don't think that we are compromising our beliefs and sacrificing our souls so that we can live in society on societies terms instead of Christian ethics. That is exactly what is happening. Our churches are virulent with tolerant pople who would rather be considered status quo than raise their voice against heresy. Then they justify in their own minds that they are practising love on the level God wants them to when all the time they are being cowards.

This type of attitude from the clergy and the populus during WWII let the fascist nazis run roughshod over peoples moral principles so much that it was hard to recognize their principles as even being human much less Christian.

I realize that fascisms sucess was built on hatred and bigotry but I think it parallels society today when they use that same hatred and bogotry towards the Christian community. They are denigrating our Christian freedoms and making it socialy acceptable. We in turn roll over on our backs and hope that they will scratch our tummies and except us.

COST OF DISCIPLESHIP. An idea whos time has come.




:scratch:

[RayJGentry]

I'll take that as a yes? I'll start typing up my first post tomorrow. Then we'll have our Cost of Discipleship study. I do agree with you completely. Cheap Grace is just as prevailent today as it was when Bonhoeffer wrote, if now more. I look forward to our journey with everyone through this book.

[Protoevangel]

This is a response I made in another thread about exactly the same theme: Cost of discipleship.





I think the whole subject is very relevent to todays churches. Christians don't think that we are compromising our beliefs and sacrificing our souls so that we can live in society on societies terms instead of Christian ethics. That is exactly what is happening. Our churches are virulent with tolerant pople who would rather be considered status quo than raise their voice against heresy. Then they justify in their own minds that they are practising love on the level God wants them to when all the time they are being cowards.

This type of attitude from the clergy and the populus during WWII let the fascist nazis run roughshod over peoples moral principles so much that it was hard to recognize their principles as even being human much less Christian.

I realize that fascisms sucess was built on hatred and bigotry but I think it parallels society today when they use that same hatred and bogotry towards the Christian community. They are denigrating our Christian freedoms and making it socialy acceptable. We in turn roll over on our backs and hope that they will scratch our tummies and except us.

COST OF DISCIPLESHIP. An idea whos time has come.




:scratch:
We've got our own holocaust going on right now. And the slaughterhouses and supporters call it "choice".

...And the silence is deafening. :help: :( :cry:

Lord have mercy! :crosseo:

[SPALATIN]

What does it profit a man to gain the world but lose his soul?

[C.F.W. Walther]

I'll take that as a yes? I'll start typing up my first post tomorrow. Then we'll have our Cost of Discipleship study. I do agree with you completely. Cheap Grace is just as prevailent today as it was when Bonhoeffer wrote, if now more. I look forward to our journey with everyone through this book.

Hmmm............sorry I got carried away and the answer is "yes".

I just hope that since we all don't have the book that we can follow along good enough

[RayJGentry]

Yeah, I do plan on using quotes...should be within fair usage copyright laws and such. I'll also thoroughly paraphrase and summarize. Of course I'll do my best to stay unbiased and accurate with the summaries. Maybe once we get going, people will go buy the book! Otherwise, the important thing is just for us to discuss the topics that come up as they relate to us today. Should be fun, I'll start writing either tonight or tomorrow!

[Edial]

Yeah, I do plan on using quotes...should be within fair usage copyright laws and such. I'll also thoroughly paraphrase and summarize. Of course I'll do my best to stay unbiased and accurate with the summaries. Maybe once we get going, people will go buy the book! Otherwise, the important thing is just for us to discuss the topics that come up as they relate to us today. Should be fun, I'll start writing either tonight or tomorrow!
I better get my copy out, since I never really read the whole thing. :)