wife vs. God

[Faithandblood]

Ok, maybe the title is harsh, but I have a point...

:scratch: I was raised Roman Catholic. I got 'born again' at age 16, I went back to the RCC only to find, after receiving the RCC catechism that they were off on Big things! My wife (Girlfriend at the time) was raised United Methodist. So, yatta yatta yatta, after years of methodism, Baptist, free-will baptists, and then Reformed Pres. I have come to Luther's Small Catechism W/ explanation and WOW I love it, my wife and I read it devotionally together. She like it as well, and has not raised one thing of disagreement!
we have LCMS church not even 300feet from our house. I have gone several time and like it. She went once on Good Friday and dosen't like it. I told her she needed to go more often. She say "it is too Catholic" by that she means RCC. She wants to go UM, she was use to that. THis is actually causing friction. I want to go LCMS. for many reasons. Any advice.
I have been praying on it, waiting for the right time to talk to her. But she gets quite defensive. Should I go there w/ daughter and have her go UM? I don't want her to be uncomfortable but The truth is the truth.

Charles:crossrc:

[C.F.W. Walther]

She like it as well, and has not raised one thing of disagreement!
Ask her is she is choosing UM because she's rejecting RCC format or becuse she is rejecting Lutheran Biblical truth. Seems like truth would outway emotional content.

[seajoy]

Ok, maybe the title is harsh, but I have a point...

:scratch: I was raised Roman Catholic. I got 'born again' at age 16, I went back to the RCC only to find, after receiving the RCC catechism that they were off on Big things! My wife (Girlfriend at the time) was raised United Methodist. So, yatta yatta yatta, after years of methodism, Baptist, free-will baptists, and then Reformed Pres. I have come to Luther's Small Catechism W/ explanation and WOW I love it, my wife and I read it devotionally together. She like it as well, and has not raised one thing of disagreement!
we have LCMS church not even 300feet from our house. I have gone several time and like it. She went once on Good Friday and dosen't like it. I told her she needed to go more often. She say "it is too Catholic" by that she means RCC. She wants to go UM, she was use to that. THis is actually causing friction. I want to go LCMS. for many reasons. Any advice.
I have been praying on it, waiting for the right time to talk to her. But she gets quite defensive. Should I go there w/ daughter and have her go UM? I don't want her to be uncomfortable but The truth is the truth.

Charles:crossrc:
Good Friday may have been a little 'heavy' for your wife going to a lutheran church for the first time. Everything is quite somber (and rightly so) on that day.

You may want to ask her what teachings of the methodist church that she really embraces. If it's just that it feels better, it may be that she is just uncomfortable. Since you are studying the catechism, and she likes it also, I would invite the lutheran pastor (from down the street) to your home (less intimadating than the pastor's office or church). I'm sure he would love to talk with you both.

Keep praying about this situation. I'm sure the Lord will guide you. It's usually better if both parents attend the same church. Don't rush things, just allow them to unfold as God would have it. (easier to say, than do, sometimes!)

:) seajoy

[BigNorsk]

Couple of things.

First I don't think it is the best thing to right off the bat label this as either your Wife or your God. Just doesn't seem to me to be the right thinking.

That said, much of the rest comes down to your wife. You could study the doctrine and such and find that there is a world of difference between Lutheran and Catholic, even if they can look quite similar in appearances, but I'm not sure your wife is really one to think doctrine or put doctrine on top of chosing a church. Usually what women focus on seems to me is more other people or relationships. If you could get involved with a small group from the LCMS, maybe a small group bible study or something, that's very likely going to make her feel a whole lot more at home as far as attending there for worship. Maybe even take the new potential members class, you wouldn't even need to attend the service at that time. See right now, I think she sees a church, but she doesn't know people, and if she comes to know the people, she would be a lot more comfortable in the church.

That's how I'd proceed, but I don't know your wife. But try to find a wife and God solution, not a wife or God one.

Marv

[Faithandblood]

O.k. the title of the thread is wrong. I am sorry, It is just frustrating at times. She rejects RCC on the basis of doctrine. She didnt like the Lutheran Church for the superficial reasons i.e. alot of the 'rituals' are similiar.

See we have gone through this before. When looking for a church I look for doctrine, biblical truth etc... she sees if she like the pastor, if the people don't ''rub her the wrong way'' etc...

charles

[BigNorsk]

So instead of fighting about it, get some friends in the LCMS church. Then she will feel welcomed and like it. Being a husband isn't dragging your family to where they hate to go, it's taking care of their needs. She needs relationships and friends in order to feel right there. So get her some. It can't take any more time and effort than fighting about it.

Marv

[WomanAtTheWell]

I agree with Seajoy on the issue of Good Friday not being the day by which to judge the rituals of the Lutheran church. It is the day that is most like a Catholic mass (in my opinion). I am a big fan of Good Friday services, but they aren't like most other services. I would ask her to give it a try on a "regular" Sunday and see if she still feels that way. She might still not like it, but she also might have a different perspective after a regular service. I don't know much about the Methodist style of worship or doctrine to make a comparison.

[LilLamb219]

http://www.lcmspastor.com/revalkorn/

This is a link to a page by Rev. Alan R. Kornacki, Jr and he has on there explanations to the Lutheran Liturgy. Click on WHOLE FILE and a .doc document should open up. Read it and share with your wife and maybe it will help her understand how biblical the liturgy actually is.

[C.F.W. Walther]

http://www.lcmspastor.com/revalkorn/

This is a link to a page by Rev. Alan R. Kornacki, Jr and he has on there explanations to the Lutheran Liturgy. Click on WHOLE FILE and a .doc document should open up. Read it and share with your wife and maybe it will help her understand how biblical the liturgy actually is.

I especially like his thesis on prayer.

[Daniels]

Ok..

[SPALATIN]

Ok, maybe the title is harsh, but I have a point...

:scratch: I was raised Roman Catholic. I got 'born again' at age 16, I went back to the RCC only to find, after receiving the RCC catechism that they were off on Big things! My wife (Girlfriend at the time) was raised United Methodist. So, yatta yatta yatta, after years of methodism, Baptist, free-will baptists, and then Reformed Pres. I have come to Luther's Small Catechism W/ explanation and WOW I love it, my wife and I read it devotionally together. She like it as well, and has not raised one thing of disagreement!
we have LCMS church not even 300feet from our house. I have gone several time and like it. She went once on Good Friday and dosen't like it. I told her she needed to go more often. She say "it is too Catholic" by that she means RCC. She wants to go UM, she was use to that. THis is actually causing friction. I want to go LCMS. for many reasons. Any advice.
I have been praying on it, waiting for the right time to talk to her. But she gets quite defensive. Should I go there w/ daughter and have her go UM? I don't want her to be uncomfortable but The truth is the truth.

Charles:crossrc:

Charles,

First and foremost you need to appeal to her on the basis that going to a Good Friday service is tantamount to going to a Christmas or Easter service. My guess is that they did the Tenebrae service which has candles and extinguishes them one by one as the last words of Jesus are read.

Impress upon her that she should give a regular service a try and not to base it on her emotional feelings but objectively. Also tell her that we as Lutherans do follow the ancient liturgy so it may very well be similar to the Roman Catholic liturgy but that we do it better. ;).

Over and above BE PATIENT! You alone are not going to persuade her. It needs to be the Holy Spirit guiding her in this direction.

Hope that helps

[Edial]

Ok, maybe the title is harsh, but I have a point...

:scratch: I was raised Roman Catholic. I got 'born again' at age 16, I went back to the RCC only to find, after receiving the RCC catechism that they were off on Big things! My wife (Girlfriend at the time) was raised United Methodist. So, yatta yatta yatta, after years of methodism, Baptist, free-will baptists, and then Reformed Pres. I have come to Luther's Small Catechism W/ explanation and WOW I love it, my wife and I read it devotionally together. She like it as well, and has not raised one thing of disagreement!
we have LCMS church not even 300feet from our house. I have gone several time and like it. She went once on Good Friday and dosen't like it. I told her she needed to go more often. She say "it is too Catholic" by that she means RCC. She wants to go UM, she was use to that. THis is actually causing friction. I want to go LCMS. for many reasons. Any advice.
I have been praying on it, waiting for the right time to talk to her. But she gets quite defensive. Should I go there w/ daughter and have her go UM? I don't want her to be uncomfortable but The truth is the truth.

Charles:crossrc:
When my sister came with me to a Lutheran service (was that Easter?), she came off it with a negative reflection, while I thought that she would love it. :D :) .

It reminded her of the Eastern Orthodox rituals from which she came out. She is a Baptist.
I thought that such rituals would be attractive to her. :doh:

Well, we both were correct.:)

Once the first impression was removed, she likes the rituals and is following the liturgy with a better zeal than I do. :D :) .
And she believes the Communion and partakes - go figure. :)

The devil works on impressions and brings back hurts, memories, disappointments, fears.
But once the truth kicks in - no problem. :)

Ask the Lord to give you and your wife friends from the Church.
If you and her are meant to go there - He'll straighten it out.:)

Thanks,
Ed

[BigNorsk]

Scott's a good resource on wife relations. Wasn't that long ago his wife was in what appeared to be open rebellion that they weren't going the right way. Short time later-Scott's in seminary. Imagine that.

It's that old balance, the husband is the head, but you need to love her as Christ loves his church. That's why I was pointing out her need for friendships for relationships in order to feel good about a church. Since then, you have acknowledged that's what she finds important, but rather than accepting it and husbanding her, you seem more to think that isn't right or valid in some way. You can put your foot down as head, but you have a responsibility to meet her needs. And I think if you find how the LCMS church can meet her needs and expose her to that, that her complaints will go away.

Marv

[Tetzel]

You could also shop around for another LCMS congregation in which your wife feels more comfortable. One of the good things about the LCMS is that while doctrine is solid throughout the different congregations, the form of worship can vary. There are LCMS congregations who resemble the RCC and there are ones that resemble places like the Vineyard. Most places fall somewhere in between. Some churches even do multiple forms of worship, for example this church http://www.friendshiplutheran.com/index.htm has both traditional and non-traditional services.

[MORTANIUS]

You and your wife must not be divided by religion. I know of some Lutherans who have intermarried Roman Catholics and they get along fine.

"Born Again" is a little different and often builds a fear of all things Roman Catholic to reinforce their teachings.

Anything in the least resembling the RCC is often guilty by association to most "Born Agains". Of course, they have a healthy fear of the errors developed in the RCC, but these errors should not be used to exclude the valid teachings of the CATHOLIC (i.e. UNIVERSAL) teachings.

A dear friend of mine is a "Born Again" and insists that even Lutherans have 'man-made' rituals that don't exist in the Holy Bible. I asked him if his marriage ceremony was based on outlines extracted from the Holy Bible and he replied 'no'.

My point here is that addressing the concerns (in this case the outward appearance) must be discussed and handled with a patient and caring mind and heart.

Its not through reason that people recognize the Holy Spirit, but through FAITH - and FAITH Alone!

We cannot alleviate the concerns of everyone through reason and we should never expect anyone to accept our Lord Jesus Christ through reason alone.

Perhaps you can try telling her to demonstrate her concerns to you and show you exactly what she feels is wrong with the Lutheran Church. Being "too Roman Catholic" isn't a fair argument considering that Martin Luther did not create a different religion (or denom) but rather addressed issues (probably similar to your wifes) that would be dealt with in an effort to bring the CATHOLIC (universal) Church back on track from those who have hijacked it.

You must realize that the Lutheran Church is not a denomination, but rather, the RCC is its own brand of Christianity with its various doctrines that defines itself as something apart from what it used to be.

The RCC had become distorted by self-serving Bishops and Popes, and all that was done through 'Lutheranism' was that the Church was in trouble and required people who would stay true to the teachings of our Lord Jesus Christ. This was accomplished and unfortunately became stigmatized as 'Protestantism' and not what the Lutheran Church actually is - which is the true Catholic Church!

Martin Luther himself tried to remind people that it was Jesus who died on the cross and not him - and for this reason the namesake should remain as Christianity!

The end result is that the Lutheran Church is Christian.
I'd like to barrow a saying from my Orthodox Christian friend who says of his own Church,

"We never reformed because we were never deformed"

I'd like to think that Reformation (specifically the Lutheran Church) wasn't reforming, but rather throwing away the distortions of the RCC. Afterall, it was the Bishops and Popes who introduced foreign doctrines into the Church (and not the people who are the Church).

I hope anything I have said has given you some thought to how to form a healthy discussion between you and your wife.

May the Lord Bless and Keep you both!:thumbsup:

[Edial]

You could also shop around for another LCMS congregation in which your wife feels more comfortable. One of the good things about the LCMS is that while doctrine is solid throughout the different congregations, the form of worship can vary. There are LCMS congregations who resemble the RCC and there are ones that resemble places like the Vineyard. Most places fall somewhere in between. Some churches even do multiple forms of worship, for example this church http://www.friendshiplutheran.com/index.htm has both traditional and non-traditional services.
Good point. :)

[MORTANIUS]

Good point. :)

Is it good because the Church conforms to his wife? Or is it good because she conforms to the Church?

[Edial]

Is it good because the Church conforms to his wife? Or is it good because she conforms to the Church?
It is good because the Church is for all ... with the exception of the extremes.

[C.F.W. Walther]

Happy Birthday Ed if I don't see ya tomorrow !!!!!!



:thumbsup: :D ;) :) :wave:

[ctay]

Happy birthday Ed

[stumpjumper]

Happy Birthday Ed.

Hi Charles

My family and I are in the process of reconsidering where we covenant and worship. One visit is generally not enough to get the feel of a Church and the community. The spirit will take you where it will but have you considered talking to the Pastor?

Also, Good Friday is the most somber service of the year...

[Edial]

Happy Birthday Ed if I don't see ya tomorrow !!!!!!



:thumbsup: :D ;) :) :wave:
Thanks. :):D

I locked the door.

Was that you knocking?

[Edial]

Happy birthday Ed
Thank you very much. :)


But this is one thing I can say for sure ... I had nothing to do with it. :):)

[Edial]

Thanks. :)

[Faithandblood]

Thanks everyone

charles

[joyfulthanks]

but I'm not sure your wife is really one to think doctrine or put doctrine on top of chosing a church. Usually what women focus on seems to me is more other people or relationships.

AAAAAaaaagh! Marv, please don't make generalizations like that. I am a woman, and I spend a good bit (if not most) of my free time thinking about and reading about doctrine and church history. My favorite type of reading is things like the Ante Nicene Fathers.

For me, doctrinal questions are very important when it comes to choosing a church. Now, I may not be typical; however, I do sometimes tire of people assuming all women are interested in is fellowship and baking cookies or something.

Your sister in Christ,
Grace

[ctay]

My granddaughter would come to church every sunday if she could. My daughter in law(her mom) was brought up in a Baptist church, been to a couple of Lutheran services and won't go anymore, says she doesn't feel comfortable.

[synger]

The Lutheran liturgy is indeed similar to the Roman liturgy. In fact, I find similarities also with the Reformed and the Anglican Orders of Worship. Many services are organized in a similar fashion. The Lutheran liturgy has the same "feel" as the Roman liturgy.

But the doctrine is very different. You may be in the same section of the divine service, but the words may be different. So you begin with the opening hymn and the invocation, and then confession/absolution. That may be similar. The focus will be different.

There is great comfort and strength in the liturgy. I came from a Presbyterian background and my husband was Baptist. I was very surprised when we visited a Lutheran church and he liked it. I thought the liturgy would turn him off. But he pretty much just ignored that bit and focused on what to him were "the good parts" -- the Word and the Sacraments.

For me, I love the liturgy. It is a connection to Christians throughout history. As a vocalist, I have sung many Masses (the musical ones, not the RCC ones), and the beauty and strength and enduring truth of the words, echoing down the centuries, touches me. I get the same feeling when we say the Lord's Prayer, and the Creeds. These are touchstones of our faith, given to us to bring us together in worship and community.

The Roman church does not "own" the liturgy. Neither do the Lutherans or the Episcopalians or the Presbyterians. The liturgy is for all Christians, and is part of what we receive from God each week during divine service.

That being said, you may want to back off on insisting on the Lutheran church right now. I know with us, we visited a number of churches. I mentioned my love of the liturgy, then let it drop while we visited another church. But we came back to the Lutheran church again and again... not because of or despite the liturgy, but because of the Word that was being preached there. And ultimately, that is why we have joined the Lutheran church. From our study of the Word and of Christian history, we believe that the Lutheran church preaches the Gospel of grace, and that is what we need.

[C.F.W. Walther]

What were you originally?

I'd type more but I'm on a laptop and they are a pain to type on.