Sign of the Times

[rusmeister]

Got this (http://southern-orthodoxy.blogspot.com/2006/07/help-unable-to-title-this-post.html)from Fr Joseph Huneycutt's site "Orthodixie (http://www.southern-orthodoxy.blogspot.com/)". Honestly, it looked like a hoax so I did some searching to confirm it and it seems legit.

It seems that the American Episcopal Church is not the only one foundering on the rocks of these new "values" that everyone is rushing to adopt. As usual, goodness is mixed in with this abomination, making it harder for some to see how messed up it is.

Marriage, the priesthood, the Christian churches all under siege. Like I've said before. If and when they fall, that will not be a good day for the Orthodox Church, either.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Unfortunately, this is one mess (the war) that no ammount of diplomacy will ever be able to solve.

[Michael the Iconographer]

That "anglican priest" lady is really, really disturbing.

[Orthocat]

I remember once while in Rome seeing prostitutes dressed as nuns. Same smell....

the sad part is that she represents what used to be a church.

[Michael the Iconographer]

I remember once while in Rome seeing prostitutes dressed as nuns. Same smell....

the sad part is that she represents what used to be a church.

The fact is heterodox are heterodox, and it really shouldn't surprise us what their antics are...

[Orthocat]

The fact is heterodox are heterodox, and it really shouldn't surprise us what their antics are...

true that.

[Matrona]

I think that silly girl wants this kind of attention. I'm not going to give it to her.

I do appreciate her work against aborting children with congenital abnormalities, but I'm feeling an overwhelming urge to put a blanket around her.

[eoe]

You have to admit that she is the best looking priest out there..... (sorry...)

[Khaleas]

:eek:

[OnTheWay]

You have to admit that she is the best looking priest out there..... (sorry...)

Well if German Lutherans can have a explict nude "stories of the Bible calendar" why can't the Anglicians have a Priestess Swimsuit calendar? I can just see the arguments now, "our priest is hotter than yours."

[rusmeister]

If you read the links, including her church site (she's the assistant to the main priest, I gather) you'll find she's 27 and seriously working on a couple of issues, including opposing abortion. I don't think she's silly, but she is a product of a church culture that has decided to define Faith on its own terms, rather than God's terms.

[choirfiend]

I'm glad we're all judging her on her clothing and how God happened to create her. I bet we wouldnt have thought she was so pretty before her face was fixed. What does it matter what she looks like? She's not dressed immodestly, she's wearing jeans and a button up shirt with a t shirt underneath it. The point of any of her work is lost on us, it seems. I think that we might need some Christian counseling more than the fashion school students she is going to try to help.

[Michael the Iconographer]

I'm glad we're all judging her on her clothing and how God happened to create her. I bet we wouldnt have thought she was so pretty before her face was fixed. What does it matter what she looks like? She's not dressed immodestly, she's wearing jeans and a button up shirt with a t shirt underneath it. The point of any of her work is lost on us, it seems. I think that we might need some Christian counseling more than the fashion school students she is going to try to help.

The point is she has made a mockery of the "priesthood."

[choirfiend]

No, the point is the Anglican Church has changed the priesthood until it is no longer an Orthodox priesthood. And so has about 90% of the other Christian denominations. The woman, personally, has very little to do with it, but she is a convinient scapegoat, isn;t she? She's pretty, she's in the news, and she's not around to defend herself.

If it's not something you would say to the face of the 60 year old Anglican/Episcopal female priest who runs the church down the block, perhaps it shouldn't be said here. Or perhaps we should all work on getting to the point where the thought doesn't enter our head, and instead we see Christ in our neighbor.

[Matrona]

She's not dressed immodestly, she's wearing jeans and a button up shirt with a t shirt underneath it.

The problem isn't how much skin she's showing, it's that her clothes are designed for a kind of visual suggestiveness. There are a lot of women's tops these days that go up to the neck but have holes around the cleavage to show it off, and that's what her shirt does, only she did it with clerical attire, so it's almost like a sacrilege on top of dressing immodestly.

For me it's not about her being female; I'd feel the same way about a male priest wearing a muscle tee made like that.

If it's not something you would say to the face of the 60 year old Anglican/Episcopal female priest who runs the church down the block, perhaps it shouldn't be said here.

Well, there's an Episcopal church next door to me and it has a female priest who I've... met. You wouldn't want to make that wager with me. :D

[rusmeister]

Hi, CF,

If you go to Fr Joseph's site and read the comments there, amid the ones you'd expect you'll find a couple of thoughtful ones that do identify the specific problem with this particular would-be priestess, as well as discuss the general problems that priestesses create. There is a particular issue raised here, above and beyond the simple fact that women shouldn't be priests - this is one of a number of good reasons why not. But you should read it there. (Matrona's on the right track here)

I also have to disagree and say that if we can't say what is Orthodox and what violates Orthodox teaching, and express our sadness at the general movement of almost all Christian churches further and further away from Orthodox teaching, then I don't know what I'm doing here. If this isn't a place where we can say "This is wrong. We need to pray for these people." in this particular Orthodox sub-forum, then I'm outta here.

I do agree that we shouldn't judge this lady on a personal level, but that's back to the old dividing line of hate the sin, love the sinner.

[choirfiend]

Rus,

I make the comments there, and full well know what was said there. I find it as disheartening as what is typed here. If the topic is of interest, let's start a thread discussing female clergy and the Orthodox teaching thereupon. That would be instructional and benefitial. What instructional or benefitial qualities has any of the comments here had? What point has been raised at all beyond critiquing the clothing and photographic choices that someone utilized while creating a photoshoot for a promotional news story?

Worry not about what is outside. We know it's outside, and we know what the outside is like. Why point out others' downfalls over and over again? Even Fr Joseph is guilty of this, only he admits it and apologizes for his obsession. Instead, make sure that when others get tired of being out in the cold they have a warm home to come to in Orthodoxy.

[OnTheWay]

Rus,

I make the comments there, and full well know what was said there. I find it as disheartening as what is typed here. If the topic is of interest, let's start a thread discussing female clergy and the Orthodox teaching thereupon. That would be instructional and benefitial. What instructional or benefitial qualities has any of the comments here had? What point has been raised at all beyond critiquing the clothing and photographic choices that someone utilized while creating a photoshoot for a promotional news story?

Worry not about what is outside. We know it's outside, and we know what the outside is like. Why point out others' downfalls over and over again? Even Fr Joseph is guilty of this, only he admits it and apologizes for his obsession. Instead, make sure that when others get tired of being out in the cold they have a warm home to come to in Orthodoxy.

And this would be about the umpteenth time you've jumped into a thread, made assumptions and judgements about the motives of others and continued with unnecessary and confrontational rants which are clearly baiting someone to make an uncharitable response.
Perhaps you should consider that some of us think wearing skin tight jeans and a shirt unbuttoned to the point where the bra is expossed is unacceptable. Adding the collar to it is plain blasphemous. To an Orthodox it surely is a sign of decay in the CofE when this sort of thing is accepted, and even thought of as positive or to be encouraged.
The desire to discuss it is really one of personal preference. Like so many other things, including a thread on favorate rock songs that's gone over 20 pages, the value is purely in entertainment and fellowship provided by the discussion. While I'm glad that you have reached a level of moral superiority in which you never talk for the pleasure of it, but always have some profound statement regarding theology to make, some of us aren't there just yet. We'd appericate dropping of needlessly confrontational posts. If you think the thread is pointless then please by all means feel free to avoid it, posting only in those that are worthy of your level of spiritual achievement. The rest of us bottom feeders will go on talking for entertainment on occassion. With you're leave, your majesty, I'll conclude here.

[ClementofRome]

MOD HAT ON

OK....enough. There is enough bait in this thread to catch a 700# tuna (btw, my friend caught one last week!). Let us please move ahead with the love of Christ in our hearts and on our minds. All sides make good points. Please proceed in love.

MOD HAT OFF

[Matrona]

There is enough bait in this thread to catch a 700# tuna (btw, my friend caught one last week!).

Wow, how did that happen?! :eek: I didn't even know tunas could grow that big!

[OnTheWay]

Wow, how did that happen?! :eek: I didn't even know tunas could grow that big!

Tuna actually get very large, they're deep water fish.

[Matrona]

Tuna actually get very large, they're deep water fish.

Heh. The only place I see tuna is in the little cans on my shelf. I guess I figured the tuna themselves must be little, too. :doh: ^_^

[OnTheWay]

Back to the OP:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/11/23/nclef123.xml

While I'm glad she opposes some eugenic abortions, that really isn't cutting it. To me abortion is an all or nothing issue. She clearly states that some abortions are okay, and she doesn't even state that she disagrees with all eugenic abortions. Only the "trivial ones" (whatever that means). So I guess it's okay to murder you're kid if it has Down's syndrome, but not a cleft-palate.
From the article:


"There needs to be a reassessing and a tightening of the law so that abortions aren't taking place for trivial reasons. We just need to say, 'Enough is enough.' There is a huge pressure on women to have a perfect baby. While it's great that there are all these tests available during a pregnancy, it's also a double-edged sword. The reality is you raise a woman's fear levels when she is in a vulnerable position. You turn her into a bio-ethicist which isn't what motherhood is about."

I'm just wondering what she thinks are the acceptable reasons for killing your child?

[Michael the Iconographer]

No, the point is the Anglican Church has changed the priesthood until it is no longer an Orthodox priesthood. And so has about 90% of the other Christian denominations. The woman, personally, has very little to do with it, but she is a convinient scapegoat, isn;t she? She's pretty, she's in the news, and she's not around to defend herself.

If it's not something you would say to the face of the 60 year old Anglican/Episcopal female priest who runs the church down the block, perhaps it shouldn't be said here. Or perhaps we should all work on getting to the point where the thought doesn't enter our head, and instead we see Christ in our neighbor.

She isn't a scapegoat. She is a prime example of just how heterodox the non-Orthodox churches have become.

[choirfiend]

Perhaps you should consider that some of us think wearing skin tight jeans and a shirt unbuttoned to the point where the bra is expossed is unacceptable. Adding the collar to it is plain blasphemous.

You can't see how tight the jeans are; they're not much in the picture. The whole shirt is a black-collar shirt; that's a t-shirt or tank top, not a bra.

[Theophorus]

You can't see how tight the jeans are; they're not much in the picture. The whole shirt is a black-collar shirt; that's a t-shirt or tank top, not a bra.

She needs a cassock, but she might find it too girly.

http://www.worldtour-of-scotland.com/tour/images-tour/2108-wallace-statue.jpg

[choirfiend]

Nah, she cleans up quite well, wearing a lovely "designer" black cocktail frock in another picture. She can pull off girly.
In fact, she's even womanly. Modestly covered and still womanly. Who would have thought that was possible? Not many of today's young women. Maybe she will have a good affect on the ppl who design tomorrow's clothing there.

[rusmeister]

I just want to say I'm sorry for my part in raising tempers.
Please forgive me!

[OnTheWay]

You can't see how tight the jeans are; they're not much in the picture. The whole shirt is a black-collar shirt; that's a t-shirt or tank top, not a bra.


Well, I guess it's okay for woman to have their chests hanging out if it's a tank top.:thumbsup:

[choirfiend]

Indeed.