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View Full Version : Church Fathers and Anti-Semitism, official stance?


88Devin07
24th July 2006, 12:03 PM
I would like to know what the official stance of the EO is on the church fathers and anti-semitism. We are having a discussion on WikiPedia about this subject and adding the stance of the two churches (RCC and EO) to one of tha articles.

In order to add them though, I need to have verifiable sources and it can't be personal research.

Michael the Iconographer
24th July 2006, 01:13 PM
The only things the Orthodox Church takes an official stance on are to be found in the 7 Ecumenical Councils.

88Devin07
24th July 2006, 03:00 PM
Then what is the general opinion, were the Church Fathers anti-semetic? (as in anti-jewish race) or just against the modern jewish religion?

Michael the Iconographer
24th July 2006, 03:11 PM
Then what is the general opinion, were the Church Fathers anti-semetic? (as in anti-jewish race) or just against the modern jewish religion?

Anti-semitism is racism, and racism goes directly against the teaching of the Gospel. No, the Church never has been anti-semitic.

88Devin07
24th July 2006, 03:15 PM
I know it hasn't, but i'm addressing Church Father writings that have been used as an excuse for racists, or that Jewish people use as "proof" that we are anti-semetic.

Currently the Wikipedia Article i'm referring to only quotes the Church Fathers and doesn't show the POV of the RCC and EO about them.

OnTheWay
24th July 2006, 04:01 PM
Considering many of the ECF's were ethnically Jewish themselves it makes little sense. The term anti-Semitism is really not a correct label as there are more than a few people calling themselves Jewish that are not Semites. At any rate, what you'd be referring to is an understanding that incorrectly developed in the middle ages. When the Bible makes reference to "the Jews" or "for fear of the Jews" it's speaking of the Jewish religious authorities. Illiterate peasents from the middle ages took this to refer to Jews in general, combine with the crowds call for the blood of Jesus to be on them and their children, and thus the origins of modern "anti-Semitism" are found.
It's not because of any doctrine the Church has ever embraced, once again all of the NT writers were ethnically Jewish as were many of the ECF's.

Oblio
24th July 2006, 06:11 PM
I know this doesn't help much, I've only seen the 'translations' of Church Fathers to prove anti-semitism used by anti-semites and those who believe that they were anti-semites, generally Messianics. I would be very wary of any 'translation' showing the Fathers to be racist and treat it as an NWT of the ECFs.

buzuxi02
25th July 2006, 01:21 AM
St John the Chrysostom's writing "against the Judaizers" has been falsely translated as "against the Jews".
He wrote against those christians who were still quartodecimans and celebrated Pascha on the same day as the jews (jewish passover) instead of Sunday like the overwhelming majority. So he has gotten a bad rap for that as an anti-semite.
He may have had harsh language about the jews but he also had harsh language against christians who did not follow the gospel. If i remember correctly he was banished the first time for speaking out against the emperors immoral sister etc..

OnTheWay
25th July 2006, 01:52 PM
I know it hasn't, but i'm addressing Church Father writings that have been used as an excuse for racists, or that Jewish people use as "proof" that we are anti-semetic.

Currently the Wikipedia Article i'm referring to only quotes the Church Fathers and doesn't show the POV of the RCC and EO about them.

Why don't you pull out some of the obscene quotes from the Talmud about the Lord Jesus and His Mother and make the Jews address those?

Michael the Iconographer
25th July 2006, 02:28 PM
Since when was Wikipedia the expert on all things Orthodox?

88Devin07
29th July 2006, 04:51 PM
It isn't, however you aren't understanding what I was getting at... I'm talking about making sure the article isn't bias against Christianity, and want to make sure people know the Church Fathers were anti-semetic... atm, the article doesn't accuse them of being anti-semetic, but the only side it shows is that of those who twist the quotes to be anti-semetic.

I cannot change anything in wikipedia without the addition being from a verifiable source.