Confused about Baptism

[Gwen'sMom]

Hi everyone, I know this subject has been discussed here before as I have read past posts.
I have never been baptised as an adult. Now that I am a Christian and I have been asking around, many people have told me that right now I will not go to heaven.
Since I have been a Christian I have never felt the need to be babtised, just as long as I believe. I was speaking to friends last night who attend The Church of Christ and they basically informed me that I am not saved. I don't really know enough of the bible (I'm new remember) to fully understand why I need to be baptised. I know that the SA does not normally perform this sacrament.
If I wanted to have this performed could I just go into any church and ask to be babtised even though I have no intention of attending their church? I would feel terrible asking this as I would be upfront with them.
Should I be baptised "just in case"?
I don't mean to start any long drawn out debate but I hope I can get some opinions. Thanks

[sreno7]

Hi everyone, I know this subject has been discussed here before as I have read past posts.
I have never been baptised as an adult. Now that I am a Christian and I have been asking around, many people have told me that right now I will not go to heaven.
Since I have been a Christian I have never felt the need to be babtised, just as long as I believe. I was speaking to friends last night who attend The Church of Christ and they basically informed me that I am not saved. I don't really know enough of the bible (I'm new remember) to fully understand why I need to be baptised. I know that the SA does not normally perform this sacrament.
If I wanted to have this performed could I just go into any church and ask to be babtised even though I have no intention of attending their church? I would feel terrible asking this as I would be upfront with them.
Should I be baptised "just in case"?
I don't mean to start any long drawn out debate but I hope I can get some opinions. Thanks
well first of all most christian protestant churches do not believe that baptism is necessary for salvation. if that were true then most salvationists would not be going to heaven.
if you feel led to do it, like a realy strong desire then I suppose you could find a church who would do it but it would be kind of wierd if you have no intention of going to the church again.
no where in the Bible do I personally believe it says you have to be baptized to go to heaven, for what about the theif on the cross, he didn't get baptized or speak in tongues or anything.
So getting baptized 'just in case"seems kind of odd.
I would talk to your officer about it.

[Gwen'sMom]

well first of all most christian protestant churches do not believe that baptism is necessary for salvation. if that were true then most salvationists would not be going to heaven.
if you feel led to do it, like a realy strong desire then I suppose you could find a church who would do it but it would be kind of wierd if you have no intention of going to the church again.
no where in the Bible do I personally believe it says you have to be baptized to go to heaven, for what about the theif on the cross, he didn't get baptized or speak in tongues or anything.
So getting baptized 'just in case"seems kind of odd.
I would talk to your officer about it.
This whole situation feels strange to me. I don't want to get baptised "just to be safe". In my heart I feel that I am saved. That is just the way I feel. I was rather put off listening to my girlfriends saying that "you are a great person but that won't matter to God". I politely said nothing to them about that comment. I appreciate your comment sreno!

[Abiel]

There is nothing to stop you being baptised if you wish. I would suggest chatting it through with your officers. I am sure they will be able to help you with your concerns.

[elm0]

Let's have a look at what Jesus had to say on the subject shall we. He seemed to know what He was talking about. ;)

John 3:1 After dark one evening, a Jewish religious leader named Nicodemus, a Pharisee, 2 came to speak with Jesus. "Teacher," he said, "we all know that God has sent you to teach us. Your miraculous signs are proof enough that God is with you."
3 Jesus replied, "I assure you, unless you are born again, you can never see the Kingdom of God."
4 "What do you mean?" exclaimed Nicodemus. "How can an old man go back into his mother's womb and be born again?"
5 Jesus replied, "The truth is, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. 6 Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives new life from heaven. 7 So don't be surprised at my statement that you must be born again. 8 Just as you can hear the wind but can't tell where it comes from or where it is going, so you can't explain how people are born of the Spirit."
9 "What do you mean?" Nicodemus asked.
10 Jesus replied, "You are a respected Jewish teacher, and yet you don't understand these things? 11 I assure you, I am telling you what we know and have seen, and yet you won't believe us. 12 But if you don't even believe me when I tell you about things that happen here on earth, how can you possibly believe if I tell you what is going on in heaven? 13 For only I, the Son of Man, have come to earth and will return to heaven again. 14 And as Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so I, the Son of Man, must be lifted up on a pole, 15 so that everyone who believes in me will have eternal life.
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. 17 God did not send his Son into the world to condemn it, but to save it.
18 "There is no judgment awaiting those who trust him. But those who do not trust him have already been judged for not believing in the only Son of God. 19 Their judgment is based on this fact: The light from heaven came into the world, but they loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 They hate the light because they want to sin in the darkness. They stay away from the light for fear their sins will be exposed and they will be punished. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light gladly, so everyone can see that they are doing what God wants."

The way I read verses 5 & 6, Jesus is saying we must be born twice to enter the Kingdom of God (Heaven). First is our physical birth when we enter this world (water), and the second is our spiritual birth. We are born spiritually when we believe in Jesus, and we then gain eternal life (John 3:15&16)

I do not believe that water baptism is necessary for salvation. I believe that when we commit ourselves to God, we are instantly baptised in the Blood of Jesus, no other baptism is needed.

I have been baptised in water, and it was simply a public declaration of my dedication to Jesus, not something I needed to do to get into Heaven. I attended church and served the Lord for at least 3 years before God prompted me to be baptised, and I know that in those previous 3 years I was no less of a Christian than I have been since.

Gwen'sMom, I agree with Abiel about talking with your officers. Your officers should be able to help, either by offering to baptise you, or by suggesting someone else. I don't know if it happens elsewhere, but the officers at the Corp I attend have done a few baptisms, usually in somebody's swimming pool.

[Gwen'sMom]

Thanks Elm0 and Abiel. I really appreciate the input. I didn't realize that some Officers would perform a baptism. I am going to think about this a little while longer. I'm still rather wet behind the ears when it comes to understanding the bible. Elm0, when you say born of water do you understand this as when we were physically born? Water means the messiness of birth? Not dunked in water later on in life?
Thanks!

[elm0]

Elm0, when you say born of water do you understand this as when we were physically born?

Yes, that's how I read it. In John 3:5, Jesus mentions 2 births, water and spirit. Then in the very next verse He talks about 2 lives, human life and new life from the Holy Spirit. I assume He's elaborating on the 2 births statement when He talks about the 2 lives.

John 3:5 Jesus replied, "The truth is, no one can enter the Kingdom of God without being born of water and the Spirit. 6 Humans can reproduce only human life, but the Holy Spirit gives new life from heaven.

[TheDag]

Thanks Elm0 and Abiel. I really appreciate the input. I didn't realize that some Officers would perform a baptism. I am going to think about this a little while longer. I'm still rather wet behind the ears when it comes to understanding the bible. Elm0, when you say born of water do you understand this as when we were physically born? Water means the messiness of birth? Not dunked in water later on in life?
Thanks!
Hi Gwen
I agree with elmo on the interpretation of that passage but there will be plenty who don't. Your friends for one will interpret that verse differently. They will say that it does mean a water baptism and a spirit baptism. So you will need to decide for yourself what it means. What is always interesting is that for those who take it literally have trouble deciding on just when exactly it became essential for water baptism to occour. So as with many things you will find there are many different views and you will need to make up your own mind by studying the scriptures, certainly you can listen to others opinions of course, but in the end you will need to decide what you believe and then follow that. For if you decide in your heart that you do need to be water baptised and you aren't I believe that will count against you.

[elm0]

So as with many things you will find there are many different views and you will need to make up your own mind by studying the scriptures, certainly you can listen to others opinions of course, but in the end you will need to decide what you believe and then follow that.

Very true. We should always be open to hearing what others have to say, but God has given us all the ability to think for ourselves and make our own choices.

You might have noticed in my post that I used phrases such as "the way I read that" and "I believe", because I know that there are other views on this subject. As TheDag said, it can be good to listen to others, but studying Scriptures yourself is always a good idea.

[Evangelina]

Since I have been a Christian I have never felt the need to be babtised, just as long as I believe. I was speaking to friends last night who attend The Church of Christ and they basically informed me that I am not saved.
Hey... when you say 'Church of Christ' do you mean 'International Church of Christ'?? There are a few denominations around using similar names, but International Church of Christ have generally been classified as a cult - I'd be wary of paying them too much attention until you know the bible fairly well.

(although - interestingly - I just found a wikipedia article that gives me a lot of hope for them! Article link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Churches_of_Christ) if anyone's interested)

[Evangelina]

PS. GM... as a longer-term thing, can I suggest you think about taking a couple of courses at your local bible college? Your officer should be able to tell you if there's a SA one nearby, or a good non-denominational one. Most bible colleges will let you attend classes without taking exams (it just means you don't get academic credit for them). I found that to be the best way to get a good grounding in understanding the bible. Subjects like Introduction to the OT and Intro to the NT would be a good start.

[Gwen'sMom]

Hey... when you say 'Church of Christ' do you mean 'International Church of Christ'?? There are a few denominations around using similar names, but International Church of Christ have generally been classified as a cult - I'd be wary of paying them too much attention until you know the bible fairly well.

(although - interestingly - I just found a wikipedia article that gives me a lot of hope for them! Article link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Churches_of_Christ) if anyone's interested)
InTheFlame, this is the one that my friends attend. http://www.canadianchurches.org/tcc/default.html
TheDag & Elm0, I am beginning to understand that I need to make this decision for myself but it sure is tough. I am going to call my Corps and see if there is anyone whom I can talk to. Our Officers are away on vacation. Is it unusual that my decision to become a soldier was so cut and dry but I am torn in 2 directions when it comes to baptism? I appreciate everyone's input.

[DaniN]

Hi!

I am quite new to these forums but I have been going to the SA for a looooong time. In my opinion I think that it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks because your "salvation" is between you ang God. If God prompts you to be baptised then do so, if not don't. God knows your heart and he knows way so quiet yourself in prayer and listen for God WILL speak to you.:groupray:

[Andy Broadley]

Hi!

I am quite new to these forums but I have been going to the SA for a looooong time. In my opinion I think that it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks because your "salvation" is between you ang God. If God prompts you to be baptised then do so, if not don't. God knows your heart and he knows way so quiet yourself in prayer and listen for God WILL speak to you.:groupray:


Again I find myself in full agreement with our sister.

In fact the more I read of her posts, the more I am liking her.

[RaddMadd]

Hi everyone, I know this subject has been discussed here before as I have read past posts.
I have never been baptised as an adult. Now that I am a Christian and I have been asking around, many people have told me that right now I will not go to heaven.
Since I have been a Christian I have never felt the need to be babtised, just as long as I believe. I was speaking to friends last night who attend The Church of Christ and they basically informed me that I am not saved. I don't really know enough of the bible (I'm new remember) to fully understand why I need to be baptised. I know that the SA does not normally perform this sacrament.
If I wanted to have this performed could I just go into any church and ask to be babtised even though I have no intention of attending their church? I would feel terrible asking this as I would be upfront with them.
Should I be baptised "just in case"?
I don't mean to start any long drawn out debate but I hope I can get some opinions. Thanks

as long as your born again you are saved. baptism is a work, we cannot get saved by works, but as it says in the book of james, faith is united by works. you should get baptised, because Jesus says, "if you do not confess me before men, I will not confess you before me Father in Heaven" baptism is a way to confess.

[Andy Broadley]

as long as your born again you are saved. baptism is a work, we cannot get saved by works, but as it says in the book of james, faith is united by works. you should get baptised, because Jesus says, "if you do not confess me before men, I will not confess you before me Father in Heaven" baptism is a way to confess.


However, there are more ways to confess Christ than by being Baptised.:)

[sreno7]

Ah yes very very true. I look at Baptism as a step of obedience as well as a way of public confession. In the army what is the usual way for public confession of one's faith? Would it be being sworn in as a soldier or an adherent?

[Andy Broadley]

If we are not referring to infant Baptism here (where I would regard the Army's Dedication as on a par), then. yes, that would be the case.

However, I would add that to publically profess, and confess, Christ within the Salvation Army, Soldiership and Adherency are not a pre requisite.

I would class those as more on a par with Conformation in the Anglican Church.

I think the Army places emphasis on John the Baptists words when he said that he baptised only in water, but that one was coming after him who would baptise with the Holy Spirit.

I would clearly refute any assertions that by not being baptised, a person is not saved.

There are a great many debates taking place on what the Gospel says about Baptism and whether it is central to Salvation.

My response to that is something I keep hammering out time and time again....

The Gospel is not about being right.

The Gospel is about being in relationship.

So, as a Salvationist, if an individual feels that God is calling them to be Baptised as a public display of their faith, then, cool, go for it.

And if an individual feels that this is not needed for them, but that their baptism in the Holy Spirit is sufficiant, then also cool.

On a personal level, I do not feel the need to be Baptised, but I would never say that anyone who does is wrong

[sreno7]

So instead of adherency or soldiership one could just give their testimony as a public statement of their faith.
WHenever I have asked at the army about Baptism I am always told that they were never intending to be a church therefore didn't do those things.

[DaniN]

Have we all forgotten about John 3:16?

[TheDag]

Have we all forgotten about John 3:16?
What in particular are you wanting us to remember in the context of this discussion? I know what John 3:16 says but I'm not sure what you mean in the context of this discussion.

[RaddMadd]

However, there are more ways to confess Christ than by being Baptised.:)

yeah thats true. this is the way Jesus tells us to do though, but im sure by just telling someone your saved etc. is fine too

[RaddMadd]

Have we all forgotten about John 3:16?

i think i know where you goin with this ;) i haven't forgotten it :)

[Andy Broadley]

So instead of adherency or soldiership one could just give their testimony as a public statement of their faith.

Yea, I would say that was a fair enough comment. I mean, what is a public statement of your faith?

A fish bumper sticker?
Testimony in a meeting?
Adding your view as a Christian to discussions at work/school etc?
A tee shirt with a CXheristian message?

The list could go on ad infinitum.

There are countless ways of making a public affirmation of your faith.

So, in that context, I wouldn't just associate Baptism with being a public faith statement, although it undoubtadly is one. But it is a great deal more as well.

When we are saved, we are 'born again', and our sins are washed away. It's God saying "Ok Andy, you screwed up real bad, but lets draw a line in the sand and start again. Whats gone is gone."

Baptism is like a physical representation of that new relationship with God. The water washes us clean.

So, although it does publically affirm our faith, it is usually in front of people who already know that we are Christians.

Taking on board what Dani said about John 3:16, I believe that is correct.

WHOSOEVER believes in Jesus shall not perish but have everlasting life. Nobody ever got saved by being Baptised. Only a one to one relationship with Jesus can do that. The Baptism is that new life in physical form.

I know that many Christians could take me to task on my rather simplistic view, but I really don't believe that getting into such areas as a state of Grace, and other heavy theology, is really going to help this discussion. As Christians we are guilty far too often of making out faith way too complicated.





WHenever I have asked at the army about Baptism I am always told that they were never intending to be a church therefore didn't do those things.

[DaniN]

Sorry! I have been away. I just mean that I don't think that Baptisim has much to do with Salvation itself. We are not saved by works but by the grace and love of God. As I said before God know our hearts and he know those who truly believe and trust in him and those who don't. Yes, baptisim is an outward testimony of faith but there are other not so obvious testimonies of faith and Salvation does not hinge on these things. IMHOJohn 3:16 (New International Version)



16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203:16&version=31;#fen-NIV-26127a)] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

[Andy Broadley]

Sorry! I have been away. I just mean that I don't think that Baptisim has much to do with Salvation itself. We are not saved by works but by the grace and love of God. As I said before God know our hearts and he know those who truly believe and trust in him and those who don't. Yes, baptisim is an outward testimony of faith but there are other not so obvious testimonies of faith and Salvation does not hinge on these things. IMHOJohn 3:16 (New International Version)



16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%203:16&version=31;#fen-NIV-26127a)] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.


Yea, I probably wouldn't argue too much with that statement, if at all.