Lutheran vs. other Protestants

[Jabronie]

Greetings from a Catholic over here. (I hope the word 'Protestant' is okay. If not, I apologize.)

Anyhow, I have a quick question, that might not have a quick answer.

What is the primary difference between Lutherans and other Protestants? I assume all accept Luther's doctrines of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide, but what separates a Lutheran from, say a Southern Baptist.

I'm well aware of the formation of most of the mainline denominations, but what differs in their specific beliefs?

Thanks!

[Protoevangel]

Lutherans (early on, anyway), only tried to correct the recent innovations of Rome, which contradicted Holy Scripture and the Church catholic. "... our churches dissent from the church catholic in no article of faith but only omit some few abuses which are new and have been adopted by the fault of the times" - Augsburg Confession.

Like the Historic Church, Lutherans believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Sacrament of the Altar. "Protestantism" usually does not. In fact, at one time, Luther stated that he would rather have only Blood with the Pope than to have only wine with the enthusiasts.

Like the Historic Church, Lutherans believe in infant Baptism. Baptism is a Sacrament to Lutherans. Most "Protestantism" does not accept these.

Like the Historic Church, Lutherans believe in the Sacrament of Confession and Absolution. "Therefore Baptism, the Lord's Supper, and Absolution, which is the Sacrament of Repentance, are truly Sacraments." - Apology of the Augsburg Confession

There are many other differences, but these are the "core."

"The Church is the congregation of saints, in which the Gospel is rightly taught and the Sacraments are rightly administered."
- Augsburg Confession

[DaRev]

Greetings from a Catholic over here. (I hope the word 'Protestant' is okay. If not, I apologize.)

Anyhow, I have a quick question, that might not have a quick answer.

What is the primary difference between Lutherans and other Protestants? I assume all accept Luther's doctrines of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide, but what separates a Lutheran from, say a Southern Baptist.

I'm well aware of the formation of most of the mainline denominations, but what differs in their specific beliefs?

Thanks!

We Lutherans do not consider ourselves "protestant." We are of the one holy catholic and apostolic Church. We hold to the confessions of the three ecumenical creeds - Apostle's, Nicene (western), and Athanasian. (The Southern Baptists hold to no creeds.)

There have been some in the Lutheran Church who have embraced the practices of American protestantism (contemporary worship, open communion, etc.) but traditional Lutheran practice is not that different from Roman Catholic practice. If you were to go to a traditional Lutheran Divine Service and participate in the liturgy, it would seem very familiar to you. The traditional canticles of the liturgy - the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy,), the Gloria in Excelsis (Glory to God in the Highest), and the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) are based upon the early church Gregorian chant. These same canticles are still used in the Mass in many RCC churches today.

[IowaLutheran]

What is the primary difference between Lutherans and other Protestants? I assume all accept Luther's doctrines of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide, but what separates a Lutheran from, say a Southern Baptist.



IMHO, Lutherans share the doctrines of Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia with some other Protestants in name only. Some Protestants hold very different views of what these doctrines mean when compared to Lutherans.

For example, some Protestants think that Sola Scriptura means that if a tradition or belief is not in the Bible, it should be thrown out of the Church. Lutherans do not believe that. We believe that traditions and beliefs that are not expressly in the Bible should be measured against the Bible in an effort to determine truth. If it does not go against the Bible and is helpful, those traditions and beliefs are okay. If they contradict the Bible, they are not.

The other example is that some Protestants have made the faith part of Sola Fide into a work. For example, the belief that if one is saved by saying the Sinner's Prayer or making a personal "decision" for Christ is contradictory to Lutheran belief that faith is a work of the Holy Spirit and not of our own doing.

[MORTANIUS]

The term 'protestant' has become such an unbrella term that many people confuse Lutherans for Born Again Christians! LOL

Many denoms falling under this umbrella term often quote various Lutheran Confessions (and often out of context), quote Martin Luther and confuse Calvanism with what Luther presented as thoughts of concern and so on.

Lutherans are much like Roman Catholics - minus Infallible Offices such as Popes (and to the lesser extent, Cardinals), regarding praying to saints for intercession, Liturgical structure, and various other theological differences such as clerics not being permitted to wed and so forth.

Think of Lutherans as the Catholic Church sort of was before Roman Catholicism.:scratch:
However, even before this time we Lutherans are not claiming to have resset the way things were, but have removed those things that were viewed to have been installed by Papal authorities who abused Holy Scripture and installed (sorry if this stings, but this is a general Lutheran perspective) false teachings that deprived the faithful from true Christian practice and teaching.

[Ravenonthecross]

The term 'protestant' has become such an unbrella term that many people confuse Lutherans for Born Again Christians! LOL

Many denoms falling under this umbrella term often quote various Lutheran Confessions (and often out of context), quote Martin Luther and confuse Calvanism with what Luther presented as thoughts of concern and so on.

Lutherans are much like Roman Catholics - minus Infallible Offices such as Popes (and to the lesser extent, Cardinals), regarding praying to saints for intercession, Liturgical structure, and various other theological differences such as clerics not being permitted to wed and so forth.

Think of Lutherans as the Catholic Church sort of was before Roman Catholicism.:scratch:
However, even before this time we Lutherans are not claiming to have resset the way things were, but have removed those things that were viewed to have been installed by Papal authorities who abused Holy Scripture and installed (sorry if this stings, but this is a general Lutheran perspective) false teachings that deprived the faithful from true Christian practice and teaching.

what sort of theological differences do the lutherans have with The RC church, i at least know that you guys's liturgy is pretty similiar to the RC church's liturgy.

[Daniels]

Good to know all these things.

[SPALATIN]

what sort of theological differences do the lutherans have with The RC church, i at least know that you guys's liturgy is pretty similiar to the RC church's liturgy.

About the only similarity between the RCC and Lutherans is the Liturgy.

Since Vatican II most RCC churches in the US do their liturgy in English with exception for those die-hard latin fans. Lutherans in the LCMS have been doing the liturgy in English since 1917 before that it was primarily German. We follow the ancient liturgy (with exception to those CCM services) to the T.

[filosofer]

Actually, while our worship practices are similar to RCC, the theology is significantly different. However, there is as much difference between RCC and Lutherans as there is between Lutherans and "Generic Protestants". The most significant difference with RCC has to do with justification and the righteousness of Christ and how that righteousness plays out in salvation.

Keep in mind, that at the time of the Reformation, the Latin word Protestatio meant "testimony", whereas today, it carries the connotation of "protest". So, in that sense, Lutherans are the original Protestants (those who testified of the faith at Augsburg). In another sense because of the shift in meaning, Lutherans seldom use the term Protestant to refer to themselves.

In Christ's love,
filo

[Melethiel]

We follow the ancient liturgy (with exception to those CCM services) to the T.

I don't know about that - I've been to several LCMS churches that are into skeletal liturgy.

[SPALATIN]

I don't know about that - I've been to several LCMS churches that are into skeletal liturgy.
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Did you ask them to take the Lutheran name off of their sign? If not you should have.;)

[Edial]

Greetings from a Catholic over here. (I hope the word 'Protestant' is okay. If not, I apologize.)

Anyhow, I have a quick question, that might not have a quick answer.

What is the primary difference between Lutherans and other Protestants? I assume all accept Luther's doctrines of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide, but what separates a Lutheran from, say a Southern Baptist.

I'm well aware of the formation of most of the mainline denominations, but what differs in their specific beliefs?

Thanks!
Theologically speaking, the significant difference between the Lutherans and other Protestants is in the Communion and Infant Baptism.
Other differences are not significant.

The differences between the Catholics and Lutherans are huge.
Just the outer appearance, the form, is apparently identical.

Thanks,
Ed

[filosofer]

Theologically speaking, the significant difference between the Lutherans and other Protestants is in the Communion and Infant Baptism.
Other differences are not significant.

The differences between the Catholics and Lutherans are huge.
Just the outer appearance, the form, is apparently identical.

Thanks,
Ed

Actually the differences are significant in both directions. The differences in Baptism and Lord's Supper really develop from a difference in the understanding of justification by grace through faith, even as it does with RCC.

In Christ's love,
filo

[Edial]

Actually the differences are significant in both directions. The differences in Baptism and Lord's Supper really develop from a difference in the understanding of justification by grace through faith, even as it does with RCC.

In Christ's love,
filo

This is interesting. How?

I personally do not see the difference of justification by grace through faith between the Lutherans and let's say Baptists, since I know them quite well.

Thanks,
Ed

[joyfulthanks]

Theologically speaking, the significant difference between the Lutherans and other Protestants is in the Communion and Infant Baptism.


May I make a clarification here on behalf of other Protestants (as Edial referred to us above)? Methodists, Episcopalians, and Presbyterians also baptize infants. Episcopalians believe in the real presence. Methodists do too, but perhaps not in the exact way a Lutheran would define it.

Protestant is not synonymous with Baptist.

I hope you don't feel I'm trying to debate in your forum. That's not my intention at all. I just felt that lumping all Protestants into the Baptist camp didn't accurately represent the spectrum of Protestant beliefs.

-Grace

[RegularGuy]

The old joke (?) is that Catholics think Lutherans are just like Baptists.

Baptists think Lutherans are just like Catholics.

The fact is, we're somewhere in the middle. Our definition of the sacraments and our insistence on justification by grace separate us from both the RCC and the other Prots.

As Prots go, though, we're the original...

Well, at least we're the first to survive.

[Ravenonthecross]

What do you folks mean by justification? I'm not sure exactly the whole belief of what exactly it is. I know, myself as a Catholic Christian am given God's Grace because of his forgiveness, which was accomplished by his sacrifice on the cross, and thus by accepting this forgivenesss, i'm accepting God's freely bestowed grace upon my soul.

[BigNorsk]

We're talking about external things mostly and they really aren't that important, at least not to me.

Where you find the foundational differences comes down mostly to just a handful of important doctrines.

1. Universal Grace. Reformed, Calvinist and such believe in limited atonement. They don't get that understanding from the Bible. They reason it. That is they say if God's grace was universal, then everyone would be saved and since that doesn't seem even remotely correct; therefore, his saving grace must be limited to the elect. If you read the bible. It's pretty clear that Jesus died for the sins of the world (universal), but they reason it away because they can't make it fit their system of theology.

2. Grace alone. The other basic error that protestants make (and it certainly happens in Lutherans as well, though it shouldn't) is that grace alone is denied. This happens when you hear people saying they asked Jesus into their hearts, or they chose to believe in Jesus, or that we must do certain things to be saved. Instead of teaching grace alone (though they certainly will list grace alone as a belief) they teach grace plus I did something.

This gets back to almost the same place and same cause, reasoning. They often say God's grace is universal, but then they see that not everyone is saved and so they try to figure out why that is and they get to where they figure it has to be due to some work or cooperation on the part of those who are saved as contrasted with those who haven't done that.

It really comes down to where people are inserting their reason over the scripture. Instead of the scripture being the sole norm and rule, they actually have a theology of the scripture and reason. Much like those theologies who claim scripture and tradition always in the end end up with tradition being over scripture, those protestants who really teach scripture and reason end up putting their reasoning over the scriptures.

So the basic error is they violate sola Scriptura. Which then results in the two most common errors or denying either universal grace or grace alone. Some deny both.

It is difficult to distinguish because they will proclaim the scriptures alone and grace alone, but their theology denies them.

Lutherans make a serious attempt to be silent where the scriptures are silent and to accept the scriptures over reason. This sets up some tensions that the other protestants go to great lengths to resolve. Lutherans accept the tensions because otherwise you have to go against what the Bible is teaching.

In summary, the difference between Lutherans and most other Protestants is rationalism.

Marv

[SPALATIN]

Lutherans make a serious attempt to be silent where the scriptures are silent and to accept the scriptures over reason. This sets up some tensions that the other protestants go to great lengths to resolve. Lutherans accept the tensions because otherwise you have to go against what the Bible is teaching.

In summary, the difference between Lutherans and most other Protestants is rationalism.

Marv

That and the fact that we are almost always satisfied to let God's mysteries be myterious. We aren't all that uptight about books like Revelation/Apocalypsis. We just know that those things will be revealed at the judgment. Revelation itself was written to give hope to the first and second century followers of Christ hope that the end would be won just as the present had been by Christ's death and resurrection.

Man's rationalization gets him into more trouble than he really needs.

[Edial]

May I make a clarification here on behalf of other Protestants (as Edial referred to us above)? Methodists, Episcopalians, and Presbyterians also baptize infants. Episcopalians believe in the real presence. Methodists do too, but perhaps not in the exact way a Lutheran would define it.

Protestant is not synonymous with Baptist.

I hope you don't feel I'm trying to debate in your forum. That's not my intention at all. I just felt that lumping all Protestants into the Baptist camp didn't accurately represent the spectrum of Protestant beliefs.

-Grace
You are absolutely correct. :)

As a former Baptist, I do have these moments when I do not see the obvious. :)

I stand corrected. :)

Thank you,
Ed

[joyfulthanks]

Ed,

Thanks for being so gracious about it. :)

-Grace

[Jabronie]

The old joke (?) is that Catholics think Lutherans are just like Baptists.

Baptists think Lutherans are just like Catholics.

The fact is, we're somewhere in the middle. Our definition of the sacraments and our insistence on justification by grace separate us from both the RCC and the other Prots.

As Prots go, though, we're the original...

Well, at least we're the first to survive.

What's kind of funny is that my gf is Lutheran (ELCA) and part of the reason I posted this originally was because I can't seem to find any differences between her beliefs and a baptist I work with.

So, yeah, I don't want to be one of those Catholic who think that all non-Catholics are the same.

[filosofer]

May I make a clarification here on behalf of other Protestants (as Edial referred to us above)? Methodists, Episcopalians, and Presbyterians also baptize infants. Episcopalians believe in the real presence. Methodists do too, but perhaps not in the exact way a Lutheran would define it.

Protestant is not synonymous with Baptist.

I hope you don't feel I'm trying to debate in your forum. That's not my intention at all. I just felt that lumping all Protestants into the Baptist camp didn't accurately represent the spectrum of Protestant beliefs.

-Grace

Howdy, Grace. As a point of (further) clarification, Lutherans believe in the real presence of Christ's body and blood in with and under the bread and wine, not just the "real presence of Christ", which is what most Protestant groups believe (even Presbyterians and Methodists - I am going by official doctrinal statements, not what individuals within the groups believe).

In Christ's love,
filo

[C.F.W. Walther]

OK---what really is "in, with an under" really mean filo? is it a spiritual or physical phenomenon?

[filosofer]

Neither, sacramental. See, this is the problem is that the Protestants want it to be one or the other. We don't fall into that, rather preferring sacramental union.

When we eat the bread, we partake of his body (really!), and when we drink of the cup, we partake of his blood (really!).

1 Cor. 10:16

In Christ's love,
filo

[joyfulthanks]

Howdy, Grace. As a point of (further) clarification, Lutherans believe in the real presence of Christ's body and blood in with and under the bread and wine, not just the "real presence of Christ", which is what most Protestant groups believe (even Presbyterians and Methodists - I am going by official doctrinal statements, not what individuals within the groups believe).

In Christ's love,
filo


Hello filo,

Yes, I know. I did try to say that in my post above, but thank you for the clarification. :)

-Grace

[sculpturegirl]

What's kind of funny is that my gf is Lutheran (ELCA) and part of the reason I posted this originally was because I can't seem to find any differences between her beliefs and a baptist I work with.

So, yeah, I don't want to be one of those Catholic who think that all non-Catholics are the same.
Jabronie- Sadly I don't think that ELCAers are catechized very well and probably don't know how they are different from Baptists or Catholics.

*I say this as one who attends an ELCA church. I get strange looks when I talk about "Law and Gospel" and sacramentalism, etc.

[MORTANIUS]

Jabronie- Sadly I don't think that ELCAers are catechized very well and probably don't know how they are different from Baptists or Catholics.

*I say this as one who attends an ELCA church. I get strange looks when I talk about "Law and Gospel" and sacramentalism, etc.

LOL I can't help but be reminded about what happened here lately with some people confusing our usage of 'confessions' to imply confessing to a Priest! LOL :D

[Protoevangel]

Jabronie- Sadly I don't think that ELCAers are catechized very well and probably don't know how they are different from Baptists or Catholics.

*I say this as one who attends an ELCA church. I get strange looks when I talk about "Law and Gospel" and sacramentalism, etc.
I know when I was ELCA, there was nothing taught that would have made anyone raise an eyebrow. For the most part, a Muslim or Unitarian would have felt just at home, with noting being taught that they disagreed with, as anyone else.. I certianly didn't know there was a difference between a Lutheran and a Baptist, a Methodist, a Presby or a Quaker. Not until I began researching Lutheranism on my own, anyway.

My ELCA pastor looked at me like I was a madman when I told him I was reading the Large Catechism. I just found out a few months ago that he has kicked out the Book of Concord study that was going on since I introduced it to the congregation.

[Melethiel]

My ELCA pastor looked at me like I was a madman when I told him I was reading the Large Catechism. I just found out a few months ago that he has kicked out the Book of Concord study that was going on since I introduced it to the congregation.

:eek: Yikes...I'm glad not all ELCA churches are like that. My pastor was supportive of me looking into the Book of Concord.

[C.F.W. Walther]

I know when I was ELCA, there was nothing taught that would have made anyone raise an eyebrow. For the most part, a Muslim or Unitarian would have felt just at home, with noting being taught that they disagreed with, as anyone else.. I certianly didn't know there was a difference between a Lutheran and a Baptist, a Methodist, a Presby or a Quaker. Not until I began researching Lutheranism on my own, anyway.

My ELCA pastor looked at me like I was a madman when I told him I was reading the Large Catechism. I just found out a few months ago that he has kicked out the Book of Concord study that was going on since I introduced it to the congregation.

That's sad :sigh: Makes you wonder were Christianity starts and ends in the Lutheran church.

[ricg]

OK---what really is "in, with an under" really mean filo? is it a spiritual or physical phenomenon?


Neither, sacramental. See, this is the problem is that the Protestants want it to be one or the other. We don't fall into that, rather preferring sacramental union.

When we eat the bread, we partake of his body (really!), and when we drink of the cup, we partake of his blood (really!).

1 Cor. 10:16




I would have said both. I thought the sacramental union referred to the union of Body of Christ with the bread and the union of the Blood of Christ with the wine. Thus, as the Large Catechism says, the bread may be called and is the Body of Christ.

[filosofer]

I think we are saying the same thing. the problem with "physical" is that it brings back connotations of an early church heresy (Capernaitic eating) of which the early Lutherans were sometimes accused, and they (Lutherans) tended not to accept/use that term.

In Christ's love,
filo

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Greetings from a Catholic over here. (I hope the word 'Protestant' is okay. If not, I apologize.)

Anyhow, I have a quick question, that might not have a quick answer.

What is the primary difference between Lutherans and other Protestants? I assume all accept Luther's doctrines of Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide, but what separates a Lutheran from, say a Southern Baptist.

I'm well aware of the formation of most of the mainline denominations, but what differs in their specific beliefs?

Thanks!


Was your question adequately answered for you?


It's a HUGE question and hard to know if it got addressed in a way that helped you.


I was raised in one Protestant denomination, spent 5 years with the Catholic Church, and now am Lutheran. Such "switching" seems pretty common these days.


IF you have a more specific issue or if something is unclear, I hope you'll ask.


BTW, yes, "Protestant" and "Lutheran" are both negative labels, but we don't seem to be at all offended by them. It's not at all like the issues over "Roman Catholic" etc. If we know what you're talking about, that's good enough.


Thanks!


Pax.


- Josiah



.

[Jabronie]

Was your question adequately answered for you?


It's a HUGE question and hard to know if it got addressed in a way that helped you.


I was raised in one Protestant denomination, spent 5 years with the Catholic Church, and now am Lutheran. Such "switching" seems pretty common these days.


IF you have a more specific issue or if something is unclear, I hope you'll ask.


BTW, yes, "Protestant" and "Lutheran" are both negative labels, but we don't seem to be at all offended by them. It's not at all like the issues over "Roman Catholic" etc. If we know what you're talking about, that's good enough.


Thanks!


Pax.


- Josiah



.




The question is kind of answered. I still see have trouble seeing the theological differences between the numerous denominations. To me, it's still like this: Sola Scriptura? Check. Sola Fide?

But I guess that's why I'm Catholic, right? ;)

Oh, and Josiah I just wanted to be sure that you understand I was asking about the differences between Lutherans and other protestants, not between Lutherans and Catholics.

Anyhow, thanks for all of the replies!

[Jabronie]

Was your question adequately answered for you?


It's a HUGE question and hard to know if it got addressed in a way that helped you.


I was raised in one Protestant denomination, spent 5 years with the Catholic Church, and now am Lutheran. Such "switching" seems pretty common these days.


IF you have a more specific issue or if something is unclear, I hope you'll ask.


BTW, yes, "Protestant" and "Lutheran" are both negative labels, but we don't seem to be at all offended by them. It's not at all like the issues over "Roman Catholic" etc. If we know what you're talking about, that's good enough.


Thanks!


Pax.


- Josiah



.



Also, Josiah this might not be the correct thread for this question, but why'd you switch?

PM if you want. Or post a new thread here, or OBOB. (Or don't answer if it's a personal question :) )

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Also, Josiah this might not be the correct thread for this question, but why'd you switch?

PM if you want. Or post a new thread here, or OBOB. (Or don't answer if it's a personal question :) )


It's complex, probably more than I can get into here. But SOME things...


1. I've always leaned toward Lutheranism in terms of theology (the thing Lutherans are HUGE on). I was homeschooled forever, and my religion instruction was always from that perspective - first from Concordia (Lutheran) religion materials, and then 3 years spent making our way through the 3 vol. set of doctrine books used to train pastors in conservative Lutheran seminaries. So, theologically, I have that background.

2. I got involved in the Catholic Church through my best buddy, Mark. I was probably 12 maybe; he and I were on the same Little League team. The church there has an AWESOME youth group and I found my youth group not only not much but as the Pastor's Kid in the church, I couldn't be me. I quickly got to know lots of people there and starting going to the Saturday Mass with him and his family and the youth group had a study option of a pretty intense Bible study/theology thing with the priest (which almost no one chose, LOL, but I did). I did a class for church membership in the Catholic Church, too.

3. I don't disclose my father's denomination, but I was kinda bounching off both that (not just theology but the whole thing) as well as my Lutheran training at the time in theology. I was interested in how my own denomination, Lutheranism and Catholicism varied and were similar or the same. ALL of them left a lasting mark on me, all of them impacted me and brought me to where I am at this point in life.

4. Catholicism gave me a rich appreciation for worship, a sense of awe in all things spiritual, a deep appreciation for tradition and the heritage of Christianity, a Sacramental heart. I still cross myself (LOL) and approach the altar with a profound sense of humility. I'm also VERY pro-life (a legecy of my priest). I guess I had 3 main "problems" with Catholicism that seem to grow larger and larger until I realized I just didn't belong there. They are all tied together. Protestants have a very rich sense community - a sense of "connection" with ALL Christians on a spiritual level. This just doesn't jibe with the rather institutional view of the church on which Catholicism is based - this who idea that Christianity is essentially a denomination, an institution, and of course, it's ours. It conflicts with my sense of community and spirituality, it conflicts with my emphasis on humility, and it creates a thick brick wall against the unity of the church. There's a reason why I post so much about this in General Theology. Another issue is epistemology. Catholics embrace some stuff that, while I can see the "tradition" behind it is simply not taught in Scripture (as most Catholics admit). The circular, self-authenticating role of Sola Ecclesia became soooooooo evident as to be very troubling. ANY teacher who refuses to be accountable for what they teach causes me to be uncomfortable with what they teach.


5. Lutheranism appeals to me on many levels:
A) It's largely based on the Theology of the Cross. It's only recently that I totally understood what is meant by that, but when I did, I realized this was the very heart and center of what I've ALWAYS believed - strongly. Lutherans do too.
B) Mark's parents (both VERY involved in Catholicism and their parish) refer to Lutheranism as "Catholics Light" - they mean no disrespect, just that Lutherans and Catholics agree the GREAT majority of the time - but not AS DOGMA on those things Catholics agree aren't expressly taught in Scripture. There's some truth to this (not exactly, however). Maybe it's Catholicism without the highly controversal stuff?
C) I love the simplicity of Lutheranism. It's pretty basic stuff. When I think of Protestantism - minus all the new, controversal and kinda wierd stuff - you've got Lutheranism. I'm actually very attracted to Anglicanism too - but the VERY traditional forms of that, and that's nearly impoosible to find. Lutheranism and CONSERVATIVE, traditional Anglicanism are very close.
D) Lutherans are Sacramental. They uphold "Real Presence" as firmly as Catholics do (but without the "accident" dogma that that denomination alone embraces as such).
E) Lutherans unabashingly embrace Tradition. They just don't use it to norm itself; they place it UNDER Scripture, not above it. I too hold it in high esteem (the Catholic coming out in me).
F) The Law/Gospel dynamic. It's probably the single greatest contribution Lutherans have offered to the church. We need to encourage more Lutherans to bring that insight to a lot of the discussions in General Theology.
G) Lutherans share many of the customs and traditions of Catholics, especially in the worship service. They WORSHIP - it's not just a teaching our or entertainment.
H) There is a simplicity and humility about Lutheranism that appeals to me a lot.
I) My girlfriend of about 2 years now is Lutheran (she's also a PK). I'd be lying if I didn't say that's played into the picture. If she were VERY conservative Anglican, I'd probably be there.


On the other hand:
A) I'm undecided about Apostolic Sucession (largely rejected by Lutherans). I tend to view it much as I do Real Presence, leaning a lot on Tradition for the interpretation - which pushes me toward embracing it. But it tends to run counter to my understanding of the church and the priesthood of all beleivers. I"m still working on that one.
B) Lutherans, especially conservative ones, have a very well-known and pretty much deserved reputation for fighting. They are not known for their love and embrace. In a few cases, when I've told friends where I'm going, I've gotten an amazed look on their face and a "what?!" Frankly, the congregation I go to isn't like that at all, it's VERY loving and embracing, so maybe the stuff that happens on a denomination level doesn't filter down to individual congregations. My pastor and I have discuss this stuff but he tells me the great majority of lay people know little to nothing about all the fights that go on. My girlfriend (who attends with me each week) has clued me in some, but also shared much of the history and issues in American Lutheranism.


I hope that helps...


Pax.
(PS Lutherans do that, too. And it's okay to do the sign of the Cross and stuff in a Lutheran church, as I do)


- Josiah

[artrx]

I had to smile at the differing perspectives of Lutherans depending on one's vantage point. I was raised in a Grace Brethren church and went to a conservative evangelical college. One of my Bible professors was a Lutheran with a staunch belief in the Lutherans as the original protestants, a perspective that was common in my background.(We had to sing A Might Fortress, all verses, before every class). Episcopals, however, were "just like Catholics", the protestant label was suspect on them. And according to my home church,the Baptists thought everyone else was off track but them.
Though I ended up Episcopal- for some similar reasons as expressed by Lutherans here, the Lutheran Church would be my next option. (We actually attended a Lutheran church for 3 yrs. in Canada)

[CaliforniaJosiah]

The question is kind of answered. I still see have trouble seeing the theological differences between the numerous denominations. To me, it's still like this: Sola Scriptura? Check. Sola Fide?

But I guess that's why I'm Catholic, right? ;)

Oh, and Josiah I just wanted to be sure that you understand I was asking about the differences between Lutherans and other protestants, not between Lutherans and Catholics.

Anyhow, thanks for all of the replies!


IMHO, all the "solas" are pretty misunderstood among a lot of Cathlolic laity.

Defining Protestantism in terms of doctrines is not easy to do, LOL. Even Protestants would tend to disagree on that!

The solas - property understood - would be one of the common points, although they are not all understood exactly the same. Sola Scriptura provides the epistemological approach to norming. Sola Fide (faith alone) does not exclude the importance of works at all, only that works per se, apart from faith, are not saving or what brings about God's love. Sola Gratia and Solus Christus are very common themes in Protestantism. Protestants also tend to embrace the church as "the one holy catholic and apostolic church" the "mystical union of all believers." They have a strong community and spiritual view of the church.

Protestants tend to put a lot of stress on salvation, more than in Catholicism, and they understand it in a much more limited way. In this, they tend to be on the "same page" with each other - with Sola Gratia, Sola Fide, Solus Christus views. This is largely the focus of Protestantism.

Some Protestants are divided into Arminians (free will - a view a bit embraced by Catholics) and Calvininists with their TULIP. Lutherans (like Anglicans and some others) stand outside of all that. Lutherans don't embrace most of TULIP and they reject free will in soteriology. So, those issues of predestination to hell, OSAS, etc. are issues Lutherans don't get into and generally don't embrace (at least in their more extreme forms).

Some protestants have a great interest in issues related to the return of Christ, some are divided into Millennialists, etc. Lutherans (like Anglicans) largely stay out of that - it's not a common theme for them (they are technically amillennialists).

Most Lutherans IN THE USA tend to lean toward the conservative/traditional side, not only in theology but also in social, moral and even political issues. They generally have a conservative reputation. But they also tend to be evangelical in attitude - without the stress on "you sinner!!" or a guilt motivation that is seen in some Protestant churches. Garrison Keiller (the comedian who often pokes fun at Lutherans) says, "Lutherans don't do guilt." He's pretty much right about that.

Lutherans have the cutest girls of any denomination - Protestant or otherwise. That may or may not be significant to you.

Lutherans do nothing that doesn't involve food in some way - and probably coffee (STRONG coffee).

Lutherans own a hugely disporportionate number of white Toyotas.


I hope that helps...


MY observations...


Pax.


- Josiah

[Jabronie]

IMHO, all the "solas" are pretty misunderstood among a lot of Cathlolic laity.

Defining Protestantism in terms of doctrines is not easy to do, LOL. Even Protestants would tend to disagree on that!

The solas - property understood - would be one of the common points, although they are not all understood exactly the same. Sola Scriptura provides the epistemological approach to norming. Sola Fide (faith alone) does not exclude the importance of works at all, only that works per se, apart from faith, are not saving or what brings about God's love. Sola Gratia and Solus Christus are very common themes in Protestantism. Protestants also tend to embrace the church as "the one holy catholic and apostolic church" the "mystical union of all believers." They have a strong community and spiritual view of the church.

Protestants tend to put a lot of stress on salvation, more than in Catholicism, and they understand it in a much more limited way. In this, they tend to be on the "same page" with each other - with Sola Gratia, Sola Fide, Solus Christus views. This is largely the focus of Protestantism.

Some Protestants are divided into Arminians (free will - a view a bit embraced by Catholics) and Calvininists with their TULIP. Lutherans (like Anglicans and some others) stand outside of all that. Lutherans don't embrace most of TULIP and they reject free will in soteriology. So, those issues of predestination to hell, OSAS, etc. are issues Lutherans don't get into and generally don't embrace (at least in their more extreme forms).

Some protestants have a great interest in issues related to the return of Christ, some are divided into Millennialists, etc. Lutherans (like Anglicans) largely stay out of that - it's not a common theme for them (they are technically amillennialists).

Most Lutherans IN THE USA tend to lean toward the conservative/traditional side, not only in theology but also in social, moral and even political issues. They generally have a conservative reputation. But they also tend to be evangelical in attitude - without the stress on "you sinner!!" or a guilt motivation that is seen in some Protestant churches. Garrison Keiller (the comedian who often pokes fun at Lutherans) says, "Lutherans don't do guilt." He's pretty much right about that.

Lutherans have the cutest girls of any denomination - Protestant or otherwise. That may or may not be significant to you.

Lutherans do nothing that doesn't involve food in some way - and probably coffee (STRONG coffee).

Lutherans own a hugely disporportionate number of white Toyotas.


I hope that helps...


MY observations...


Pax.


- Josiah

Thanks for the response. I know we're not supposed debate here, but I have to say that you're wrong on one point: Catholics have the cutest girls :D Of course my girlfriend of almost three years is Lutheran so what do I know ...

[CaliforniaJosiah]

Of course my girlfriend of almost three years is Lutheran so what do I know ...

My girlfriend of almost two years is Lutheran...


The conclusion seems OBVIOUS to me.
Lutheran girls are - hands down, no debate - the cutest.


:)


- Josiah

[SPALATIN]

My girlfriend of almost two years is Lutheran...


The conclusion seems OBVIOUS to me.
Lutheran girls are - hands down, no debate - the cutest.


:)


- Josiah

So when will you be converting? ;)