Holy-Spirit

[thenewageriseth]

If one doesn't believe in the Holy Spirit, and if the Spirit is part of the Godhead (Trinity) and there is 3 in 1, then would that mean that person doesn't believe in God, Himself?

What if the person believed in the Creator only?
Or just in Jesus and not the Spirit?

:scratch: :confused:

[Daniels]

If you understood the following verses it is good.

Luke
3:21 Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus
also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened,
3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon
him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my
beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Father-----Acknolwedged

Holy Spirit----Dove --peace.

Son------Obeyed took immersion baptism.

[tapero]

If one doesn't believe in the Holy Spirit, and if the Spirit is part of the Godhead (Trinity) and there is 3 in 1, then would that mean that person doesn't believe in God, Himself?

What if the person believed in the Creator only?
Or just in Jesus and not the Spirit?

:scratch: :confused:
For salvation one must believe in Jesus. Many people believe in a God, but Jesus says I and the Father are one, so if they believe in Jesus they believe in the Father, and the Holy Spirit indwells that believer. I would think that they would be a new believer not to understand the concept of the Holy Spirit. I mean the trinity isn't easy to understand, but a new believer might not understand about the Holy Spirit. I hope this helps. Tapero

[Daniels]

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be
born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of
God.

[CrazyforYeshua]

Daniels posted a very important scripture. If you don't believe in the Holy Spirit, there is no way for your own spirit to be regenerated, and made new. Coming to Yeshua doesn't only mean Him alone, the Spirit is wholy involved.

[Daniels]

Conditions to recieve the Holy Spirit.
1.Prayer.

Lk 11:13 "If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"

2.Forgiveness.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

3.Desire.

Jn 7:37 On the last day, that great [day] of the feast, Jesus stood and cried out, saying, "If anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink.

38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water."

4.Faith .

Jn 7: 39 But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet [given], because Jesus was not yet glorified.


5. Obedience.

Acts 5:32 "And we are His witnesses to these things, and [so] also [is] the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him."

6.Waiting,

Luke 24;49 "Behold, I send the Promise of My Father upon you; but tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you are endued with power from on high."

7.Laying on Hands.

Acts 8:17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

8.Listening to the spiritual messages.

Acts 11:15 "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning.

16 "Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.'

17 "If therefore God gave them the same gift as [He gave] us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?"


Supporting verses.

Mk 1;8 "I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

I Thess 4; 8 Therefore he who rejects [this] does not reject man, but God, who has also given us His Holy Spirit.

[christandisrael]

Actually, it's blasphemy to not believe in the Holy Spirit.

[Godslilgurlalways]

:scratch: Actually, it's blasphemy to not believe in the Holy Spirit.

Thought Blasphemy would only be present in this if she contributes the Holy Spirts work to Satan

[twistedsketch]

Not believing in the Holy Spirit amounts to calling Jesus a liar, because He predicted the Holy Spirit's coming, and told the disciples of His existance and purpose. See John 14-16.

[thenewageriseth]

Thanks, I was just wondering...because there's one good reason I don't really believe in the Holy Spirit-cuz if the Holy Spirit gives folks power to speak in tongues, then no I don't believe, because the glossilalia I've heard is totally DA PITS. Seems like some people make the tongue language up. :| But say there is a Holy Spirit-perhaps the whole "talking in tongues" thing was thrown in the Bible to throw people off in the generations to come. You know, maybe as a scam? O_O
Can one just believe in the Holy Ghost, without having to believe in speaking in tongues, because I have to "hear it" to believe it and all I've heard so far was jibber jabber gibberish.

[Godslilgurlalways]

Thanks, I was just wondering...because there's one good reason I don't really believe in the Holy Spirit-cuz if the Holy Spirit gives folks power to speak in tongues, then no I don't believe, because the glossilalia I've heard is totally DA PITS. Seems like some people make the tongue language up. :| But say there is a Holy Spirit-perhaps the whole "talking in tongues" thing was thrown in the Bible to throw people off in the generations to come. You know, maybe as a scam? O_O
Can one just believe in the Holy Ghost, without having to believe in speaking in tongues, because I have to "hear it" to believe it and all I've heard so far was jibber jabber gibberish.

But that is just like believing Jesus is real but doesn't have the power to here. The gift of tongues isn't made up at all, though you do have fakers, but people pretend like they are saved and all, even if they are not, but you can't let that stop you from you being the christian you need to be. If you want to hear it, go to a penetcostal service, or a non-denomational service I know both use it, PLus BTW the gift of tongues is metioned in the bible. and non-demonational also stands for bible believers:)

[thenewageriseth]

But that is just like believing Jesus is real but doesn't have the power to here. The gift of tongues isn't made up at all, though you do have fakers, but people pretend like they are saved and all, even if they are not, but you can't let that stop you from you being the christian you need to be. If you want to hear it, go to a penetcostal service, or a non-denomational service I know both use it, PLus BTW the gift of tongues is metioned in the bible. and non-demonational also stands for bible believers:)

Hmm okay if u say so. :P I also have read that those who have the Spirit within them can perform miracles. Or Heal, w/e.
The only kind of healing I've heard about is that guy from Brazil John of God and Adam the Dream Healer who was on Coast To Coast AM the other night. I have a feeling, though, that it's a long long longggggggg road for me in the accepting and believing Christ road, cuz I know way too much about other beliefs, anyway. :P

[Daniels]

The Holy Spirit is our.


1.Helper.
2.Comforter.
3.Counselor.
4.Guide.
5.Intercessor.
6.Advocate.
7.Strengthner.
8.Stand by power when you need it.
9.Exhibitior of Jesus.
10.Testifier.
11.Remembreancer.

[Eikon]

Why is it that people only speak in tongues in pentecostal and charismatic churches nowadays? Id figure that there would be some presbies or baptists too

[Daniels]

I Cor 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men,
but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit
he speaketh mysteries.

[twistedsketch]

Thanks, I was just wondering...because there's one good reason I don't really believe in the Holy Spirit-cuz if the Holy Spirit gives folks power to speak in tongues, then no I don't believe, because the glossilalia I've heard is totally DA PITS. Seems like some people make the tongue language up. :| But say there is a Holy Spirit-perhaps the whole "talking in tongues" thing was thrown in the Bible to throw people off in the generations to come. You know, maybe as a scam? O_O
Can one just believe in the Holy Ghost, without having to believe in speaking in tongues, because I have to "hear it" to believe it and all I've heard so far was jibber jabber gibberish.
You can have the Holy Spirit without the gift of tounges. Paul states it explicitly in 1 Cor 12:7-11.

"Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines."

He says it again in verses 28-30:

"And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then workers of miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret?"

These are obviously rhetorical questions here.

[SteelDisciple]

Holy Spirit!! FALL UPON ME!!!!!!

[Godslilgurlalways]

I have a feeling, though, that it's a long long longggggggg road for me in the accepting and believing Christ road, cuz I know way too much about other beliefs, anyway. :P

The thing about in Believing in God,Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is that you need to learn about it and at the same time you need to have faith in him. It's not the alrm clock that is waking up, your not evenn waking yourself up.


Can I ask you a question? Is it that your confused about what God can do?What is stopping you from believing, if you just look around he is all around you he is right there.But I know in due time:)

[thenewageriseth]

The thing about in Believing in God,Jesus, and the Holy Spirit is that you need to learn about it and at the same time you need to have faith in him. It's not the alrm clock that is waking up, your not evenn waking yourself up.


Can I ask you a question? Is it that your confused about what God can do?What is stopping you from believing, if you just look around he is all around you he is right there.But I know in due time:)

Let's see...what would be stopping me is what I have seen and heard...sickness, abuse in and outside of the family, mental sickness in the family and in the world, just a lot of turmoil on this planet. Not to mention that I sorta agree with my father on some issues about Christianity. It just doesn't seem to work. I have read and heard the horror stories within this site's Abuse forums and Struggling forums-things that never should have happened to people. That's why I usually do things MY way and in my novel series I can mix whatever I want with Christianity, whether it is New Age or New Thought philosophies. And quite frankily, sometimes I don't think I could go to Hell for not going "HIS way" all of the way-sometimes it seems that the whole "going to Hell" and "Good works are not enough" thing is exaggerated. I think Good Works are enough and being a good person is enough without worship. :| I would like to believe better but, it's really really hard, due to circumstances, esp. since I've have some trust issues, sometimes.

[Godslilgurlalways]

Let's see...what would be stopping me is what I have seen and heard...sickness, abuse in and outside of the family, mental sickness in the family and in the world, just a lot of turmoil on this planet. Not to mention that I sorta agree with my father on some issues about Christianity. It just doesn't seem to work. I have read and heard the horror stories within this site's Abuse forums and Struggling forums-things that never should have happened to people. That's why I usually do things MY way and in my novel series I can mix whatever I want with Christianity, whether it is New Age or New Thought philosophies. And quite frankily, sometimes I don't think I could go to Hell for not going "HIS way" all of the way-sometimes it seems that the whole "going to Hell" and "Good works are not enough" thing is exaggerated. I think Good Works are enough and being a good person is enough without worship. :| I would like to believe better but, it's really really hard, due to circumstances, esp. since I've have some trust issues, sometimes.

Do you believe in the bible?

[thenewageriseth]

Do you believe in the bible?

Not really, I guess. I'm been trying to believe for a long time now...:scratch: :confused:
Sounds more like myth to me...

[cubanito]

When I was an agnostic, it seemed logical to me that IF there was a God, it/he/she would not be something/someone I could fully comprehend.

It is very satisfying to me that the only concept of God defies my ability to fully understand is that of Christianity. Put another way, one of the reasons I believe the Bible is because it presents a concept of God I can NOT understand. While such creeds as those from Nicea and Chalcedon seek to clarify the concept of the Trinity somewhat, those who framed these creeds insisted they could not fully explain the mystery, only clear away some of the confusion.

It is a tenet of informational theory that no system can fully systematize itself (proven mathematically by Godel). Now, would you really expect that your tiny brain could understand the Creator of the whole universe, including time and the laws that govern it? Given that, the fact that the concept of the Trinity does not fit neatly into your brain should not be evidence against it's being True, but rather as a NECESSARY hallmark of a description of the True God (if there is one). I always lol when I read Muslim and Jewish apologists speak of the impossibility of the Trinity or that God should have a Son (or the even more difficult to "nail down" Spirit). To misquote Scripture, "they err not knowing the Power of God nor the elegance of mathematics."

Now, I became a Christian by trying to disprove the Bible, not because the Trinity is the only ancient conception of God that defies logic (although, interestingly, the Trinity is mathematically consistent, even inescapable, it does not fit within classical logic). BTW mathematics is NOT the same as logic.

JR

[christandisrael]

If one doesn't believe in the Holy Spirit, and if the Spirit is part of the Godhead (Trinity) and there is 3 in 1, then would that mean that person doesn't believe in God, Himself?

What if the person believed in the Creator only?
Or just in Jesus and not the Spirit?

:scratch: :confused:
If you deny the Holy Spirit, then it is blasphemy!

[thenewageriseth]

Okay, let's say the Holy Spirit does exist-and I am not sure if He does or not-

Prophecy is an example of the Spirit right? I asked a mod and kinda forgot the answer.
I ask cuz my cousin went to a conference and saw a prophetess that told her things that kinda came true...
I had thought prophets and psychics were alike...except there are fake psychics on TV :P

[christandisrael]

Okay, let's say the Holy Spirit does exist-and I am not sure if He does or not-

Prophecy is an example of the Spirit right? I asked a mod and kinda forgot the answer.
I ask cuz my cousin went to a conference and saw a prophetess that told her things that kinda came true...
I had thought prophets and psychics were alike...except there are fake psychics on TV :P
I'm going to be honest with you. Psychics are not real and people who participate in the New Age religion have not received it.

[Korina]

x

[Korina]

The Pentecost speak in tongues. But hey, if you're thinking it's angelic tongues, the answer is no.

Not all early christians spoke in tongues. 1 Corinthians 12:27-30. 1 Corinthians 14:20. 1 Corinthians 14:5.

The gift of tongues was a miraculous gift that provided evidence Yahweh's spirit wasw upon the newly formed Christian Congregation. Hebrews 2:4. 1 Corinthians 14:22.
A
t Pentecost (see where that sect got its name? ) the gift of tongues served a practical purpose in preaching. Acts 1:4-8.

The gift was used to uplift or build up others in the congregation. But it was not used to exhalt anyone having the gift. It was in fact, people speaking in foreign languages. The ones gifted with the tongues of speech would have translators for those that were not familar with the languages that were spoken. The Cherubim were the tongues that they saw, and so the Scripture makes mention of the Angel tongues at 1 Corinthians 13:1. But the tongues were for a purpose. It was so ALL people could come to an understanding of revelations and prophecies. 1 Corinthians 14:6, 19, 27, 28, cover that.

Long ago, the GIFT served a purpose back then. But today, it is not necessary. The forms of multiple communication in different languages have bridged the gap that did not exist back then.

Read 1 Corinthians 13:8-10 and you will understand why that which serves no purpose anymore is done away with.

God Bless,
Korina

[Dondi]

thenewageriseth,

My dear sister, in this thread, we've completely missed the purpose of the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit is not about tongues or prophesy or miracles or healings. Those things only show a taste of the Kingdom of God. One day, we will not have any need for those things:

"And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful." - Revelation 21:3-5

But the only way to enter God's kingdom is to have a relationship with Him.

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent. - John 17:3

And the only way we can have a relationship with is through God's Spirit:

"Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit." - John 3:5-8

The whole purpose of the Spirit is for God to indwell us:

"And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you." - Romans 8:10-11

It is God's Spirit that will raise us from the dead. So if you don't think that the Spirit of God is important, you've got the whole thing wrong. God's Spirit is vital, God's Spirit is life.

And the reason why Jesus is the only way is because the Spirit of God will not dwell in old wineskins:

"Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved." - Matthew 9:17

In order for us to experience the Spirit of God and a relationship with God, we must deal with our sins. Being good is not good enough:

"Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." - Romans 3:20-26

Only through Christ can we be made new so that the Spirit can abide in us:

"Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new." - II Cor. 5:17

We become new wineskins for the Spirit to dwell:

"What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

So you might not think that the Holy Spirit is important, but you've missed the whole point of Christianity when you think that way.

Go ahead and dabble in your New Age thinking, thenewageriseth. But that doesn't change the fact that the Holy Spirit is the one who is able to change you life and give you life that is vital to having a relationship with God, and hence eternal life.

Eternal life without God and His Spirit is not life, but death in my opinion...whether or not you believe in hell.

[thenewageriseth]

Ok, Dondi, but then does it make sense to , from time to time take or leave the Christian faith? I do that. Esp, when I'm angry. I'm like a wave-ebbing and flowing.
:P

[Dondi]

Ok, Dondi, but then does it make sense to , from time to time take or leave the Christian faith? I do that. Esp, when I'm angry. I'm like a wave-ebbing and flowing.
:P

Why would one need to leave the Christian faith? Is Jesus not good enough for you? Are not the His commandments enough to live a fulfilling and abundant life? What more are you seeking?

You say you leave when you are angry. Why are you angry? Are you angry at God?

James 1:8 warns, "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."

Ephesians 4:14-15 exhorts us so that, "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:"

You need to make up your mind who you are going to follow. Heed what Joshua said,

"But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

So what's it going to be, thenewageriseth? You cannot serve both God and Mammon.

[thenewageriseth]

Why would one need to leave the Christian faith? Is Jesus not good enough for you? Are not the His commandments enough to live a fulfilling and abundant life? What more are you seeking?

You say you leave when you are angry. Why are you angry? Are you angry at God?

James 1:8 warns, "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways."

Ephesians 4:14-15 exhorts us so that, "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:"

You need to make up your mind who you are going to follow. Heed what Joshua said,

"But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD."

So what's it going to be, thenewageriseth? You cannot serve both God and Mammon.

Yep, totally angry at God. >:(