Is it sinful to listen to hard rock and heavy metal?

[Daniels]

Your thoughts

[covenantwmn]

Mark 7:20-23

20He said, "That which proceeds out of the man, that defiles the man.

21 (http://bible.cc/mark/7-21.htm) For from within, out of the hearts of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, sexual sins, murders, thefts,

22 (http://bible.cc/mark/7-22.htm) covetings, wickedness, deceit, lustful desires, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, and foolishness.

23 (http://bible.cc/mark/7-23.htm) All these evil things come from within, and defile the man."

It's not for me, but I speak for myself. I enjoy some heavy metal and hard rock very much. If the Lord convicted me, of course I'd give it up, but music of all kinds is a blessing to my life.

[Kelly]

If I had a dime for each "is it wrong to..." thread! (Just kidding!)

I guess each person needs to take a look at the messages in the lyrics of the music they listen to (regardless of style). The arrangement and instruments of any form of music can't be sinful. It's all about lyrics.

Do the songs glorify sex, violence, greed, etc? Also, does any artist or band mean so much to you that you can't give them up if you feel God asked you to? (Look at the fans of Michael Jackson who refuse to believe he could possibly be a pedophile).

[ReformedChapin]

Substance is what matters, not genre

[Kitten87]

Substance is what matters, not genre

amen to that. its so tiring hearing "is rock music bad blah de blah"

just coz its heavy, loud and has screaming in it doesnt make it evil.

sorry im passionate about my music....

[christianmomof3]

For any worldly activity, the questions we must ask ourselves are "Can I do this and still pray and praise the Lord? Does this activity glorify the Lord? Would the Lord be happy to see me doing this or would He be dissappointed? How would I feel if I were doing this when the Lord returns?" If you can still pray while doing that, then pray and go on with it I suppose, but, if you cannot pray while doing it, you should stop.

[genestealerbroodlord]

The fact is i listen to heavy rock music and dont see it having a negative effect on my love for my Heavenly Father. I suppose it depends on the individual, when i listen to music i try to find God in the songs, as way of example: Meatloafs Bat out of hell album listen to "For crying out loud" and apart from a few words its like a prayer to God, The whos Tommy album has a song called "Im free" which when i listen to it, it sounds like Jesus is telling me to abandan my old ways and follow him, but as i said that could just be me. Im not saying heavy metal is good or bad but as long as i avoid songs that use bad words, glorify sex or belittle God I think im ok. I believe this is a case of self censorship really, if you think it will be bad for your spirit to listen to some songs just dont listen to them and listen to the ones that are just fun or uplifting, i usually skip past the bad ones.

[whateveristrue]

Well if you're listening to songs that glorify satan... then I don't think it's good. Other than that, a lot of the hard stuff really is good music. It may not be appropriate to play in church though.

I went to a Christian conference once where a Christian heavy metal band was invited to play. After their performance, the pastors got up on stage and addressed the crowd saying that this band was never to play there again... because they were thrashing around, screaming, and body surfing. The organizers of the conference felt that was not representative of God's spirit.

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

I wonder what they think of David dancing nekkid before the Lord? That David...what a weirdo!

[FarTraveler]

amen to that. its so tiring hearing "is rock music bad blah de blah"

just coz its heavy, loud and has screaming in it doesnt make it evil.

sorry im passionate about my music....


Kitten

They've been sayin that sense I was your age

and that was alonnnnnnng time ago

;) :P :holy:

[bod44]

Well, here is something that I have alot of experience in. Before I got saved, I was in a heavy metal band. We were pretty poplular locally and it was alot of fun. After I got saved, I tried to play christian metal. It doesn't work. I'll tell you why I think its not good. What is the spirit of the music? If you go to a metal concert, or see people listening to metal in their car, what are they doing? What is the fruit of the music? "Rocking out"! Head banging, dancing crazily, etc. First of all I would say that metal was started as angry music and will always sound angry no matter what the lyrics, secondly, we are told in the bible to be sober and meek and I hardly think that metal fits in that category. The fruit of metal is craziness or anger. You can't hear the lyrics usually either. I had great lyrics in my songs, but the thundering guitars etc block everything out! Plus, who does it glorify? Everyone listens and says, man, that guitarist is great! or that singer is crazy etc! It doesn't glorify God. Metal cannot bring someone to a calm Godly peace that surpasseth all understanding. And it also is just like the world. 1 Thessalonians 5:22 says to avoid even the appearacne of evil! Metal appears evil like any other metal group. I can't tell if you're listening to Christian or non-Christian metal if you drive by me in your car with it blaring. So, I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say its a sin, but its not a good idea. The object of the christian life is how far away from the world can we get, yet reach them with the light of a Godly life, not how close to the edge can we get! If I win a soul to christ, would they look at my life and say hmmm, it looks just like the life I had before, just worded a little differently? Be ye separate! In the world and not of them! We don't have to be like the world to win the world, in fact, a conservative Godly life, will convict more hearts than anything else.
Phi 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

[christandisrael]

Look in the Bible. Jesus never forbade any kind of music, however if it contains blasphemous lyrics, then shut it off!

[bod44]

Look in the Bible. Jesus never forbade any kind of music, however if it contains blasphemous lyrics, then shut it off!
Jesus didn't have to say don't listen to worldly music because it should be obvious! Besides, ever hear of metal in Jesus' day? Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore is a friend of the world is the enemy of God. james 4:4 Lets not be like the world brothers and sisters, lets be sober minded and separate from the world. You can't save someone out of the world, if the live they are watching you live is just like them. God is a God of peace, not confusion, loudness, and wildness. Metal is not peace. Read all through the Bible, Old Testament and New, and you will see all through it that we are not to be like those around us, living soberly in this present dark age. Somethings aren't exactly literally written in the Bible because they didn't exist in that day, but the principles of the Bible are timeless and apply to any age.

[christandisrael]

Jesus didn't have to say don't listen to worldly music because it should be obvious! Besides, ever hear of metal in Jesus' day? Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore is a friend of the world is the enemy of God. james 4:4 Lets not be like the world brothers and sisters, lets be sober minded and separate from the world. You can't save someone out of the world, if the live they are watching you live is just like them. God is a God of peace, not confusion, loudness, and wildness. Metal is not peace. Read all through the Bible, Old Testament and New, and you will see all through it that we are not to be like those around us, living soberly in this present dark age. Somethings aren't exactly literally written in the Bible because they didn't exist in that day, but the principles of the Bible are timeless and apply to any age.
Well, to tell the truth, if that is true, then every music that I know except classical have their relationship issues and they picture the wrong things about love. We must be able to discern what music we should listen to. There is Christian metal. Be careful!

[TamaraLynne]

You could cut out all the words from music and I would sift through it just because of sound...........music is a mood setter. If it makes me feel scared or uneasy or rebellious or sexual..............I don't really want to listen to it. But I pretty much avoid secular music now just because I can't really focus on the words anymore......so I just play it safe and play pretty much Christian music now...............but I'm even picky with Christian music if it sounds rebellious:sorry: (My family though loves secular music:doh: ....:eek: .....:) ....I do the best I can:sigh: )

Even when we watch T.V. ........the background music........it's a mood setter.(example)


:sorry:


Love
Tam:angel:

[bod44]

Well, to tell the truth, if that is true, then every music that I know except classical have their relationship issues and they picture the wrong things about love. We must be able to discern what music we should listen to. There is Christian metal. Be careful!
well, partially I agree, yes, except classical, or some acapella, everything is quite dangerous, and we must discern. But, somethings are better left for God to discern because we often in our own minds don't look with an unbiased searching for what God has to say, we often just look for ways to justify things. you know what I mean right? I'm not accusing anyone, but I don't find that style of music as having any semblence of a worshipful spirit. Remember, I tried alot of popular and not so common 'christian metal' groups.

[christandisrael]

well, partially I agree, yes, except classical, or some acapella, everything is quite dangerous, and we must discern. But, somethings are better left for God to discern because we often in our own minds don't look with an unbiased searching for what God has to say, we often just look for ways to justify things. you know what I mean right? I'm not accusing anyone, but I don't find that style of music as having any semblence of a worshipful spirit. Remember, I tried alot of popular and not so common 'christian metal' groups.
We need to hold all of the music to the light of the Lord.

[whateveristrue]

Sure heavy metal may be questionable; but classical is not the only music that is okay; there is a lot of good positive rock music out there!

[flitznarb]

Hi I'm new here so I hope I don't ruffle any feathers. I think that as long as the music isn't advocating anything bad, it's fine. Problem is many times the lyrics do advocate bad stuff. :(

But IMHO there's nothing wrong with a good rock song!

[ReformedChapin]

I really want someone to pull a verse that states any type of tradition (because that what really music is) that teachers God's principles in different ways is wrong. Fitting music into God's kingdom just makes it easier for people to make the transition to the gospel and it doesn't affect it's integrety at all.

[peacechild]

I reccomend reading this page (http://www.mindspring.com/~brucec/soft_things.htm). The guy has a very interesting opinion on the subject. Although, he talks about Christian metal...not secular.

[christandisrael]

I reccomend reading this page (http://www.mindspring.com/~brucec/soft_things.htm). The guy has a very interesting opinion on the subject. Although, he talks about Christian metal...not secular.
I don't see anything wrong with Christian metal or any other metal just as long as it does not offend Christ.

[whateveristrue]

I reccomend reading this page (http://www.mindspring.com/~brucec/soft_things.htm). The guy has a very interesting opinion on the subject. Although, he talks about Christian metal...not secular.

Hey, thanks for sharing that page. Interesting piece. I understand where the writer is coming from... in that there's nothing wrong with Christian music representing power and strength. And there are definitely times where power & strength are very appropriate.

However, let me remind us all that peace is a very important quality. It's what God gives us; and as Christians... it's what we ought to give others. There's nothing wrong with having a few upbeat loud songs to get people active... but some heavy metal songs are just plain violent; and for no reason at all.

We need to think whether a song brings honor to God or not.

[SteelDisciple]

Hey, thanks for sharing that page. Interesting piece. I understand where the writer is coming from... in that there's nothing wrong with Christian music representing power and strength. And there are definitely times where power & strength are very appropriate.

However, let me remind us all that peace is a very important quality. It's what God gives us; and as Christians... it's what we ought to give others. There's nothing wrong with having a few upbeat loud songs to get people active... but some heavy metal songs are just plain violent; and for no reason at all.

We need to think whether a song brings honor to God or not.

It can also be a matter of perception...someone who only listens to contemporary and suddenly hears something like Demon Hunter will probably think it sounds violence...but to someone who "gets it". It's not about violence, or anger...it's about passion and rightoues anger. FAR different from human anger.

[SteelDisciple]

I would also like to add that there is nothing in the Bible to support the bogus claims that Christian rock/metal is sinful and wrong. :)

[Quantos]

For any worldly activity, the questions we must ask ourselves are "Can I do this and still pray and praise the Lord? Does this activity glorify the Lord? Would the Lord be happy to see me doing this or would He be dissappointed? How would I feel if I were doing this when the Lord returns?" If you can still pray while doing that, then pray and go on with it I suppose, but, if you cannot pray while doing it, you should stop.

Well I do find it hard to Pray while having relations with my wife, Should I stop according to this line of thought ?

[SteelDisciple]

Well, here is something that I have alot of experience in. Before I got saved, I was in a heavy metal band. We were pretty poplular locally and it was alot of fun. After I got saved, I tried to play christian metal. It doesn't work. I'll tell you why I think its not good. What is the spirit of the music? If you go to a metal concert, or see people listening to metal in their car, what are they doing? What is the fruit of the music? "Rocking out"! Head banging, dancing crazily, etc. First of all I would say that metal was started as angry music and will always sound angry no matter what the lyrics, secondly, we are told in the bible to be sober and meek and I hardly think that metal fits in that category. The fruit of metal is craziness or anger. You can't hear the lyrics usually either. I had great lyrics in my songs, but the thundering guitars etc block everything out! Plus, who does it glorify? Everyone listens and says, man, that guitarist is great! or that singer is crazy etc! It doesn't glorify God. Metal cannot bring someone to a calm Godly peace that surpasseth all understanding. And it also is just like the world. 1 Thessalonians 5:22 says to avoid even the appearacne of evil! Metal appears evil like any other metal group. I can't tell if you're listening to Christian or non-Christian metal if you drive by me in your car with it blaring. So, I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say its a sin, but its not a good idea. The object of the christian life is how far away from the world can we get, yet reach them with the light of a Godly life, not how close to the edge can we get! If I win a soul to christ, would they look at my life and say hmmm, it looks just like the life I had before, just worded a little differently? Be ye separate! In the world and not of them! We don't have to be like the world to win the world, in fact, a conservative Godly life, will convict more hearts than anything else.
Phi 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.



First..meek doesn't mean spineless. :) By American definition Jesus was anything BUT meek.

As for metal being angry. Not at all. It's about passion and rightous anger towards things that are wrong. Just the way God is against such things. When i'm yelling out hardcore vocals, I'm not yelling out in anger...it's passion. It's CONVICTION. :)

[SteelDisciple]

Jesus didn't have to say don't listen to worldly music because it should be obvious! Besides, ever hear of metal in Jesus' day? Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore is a friend of the world is the enemy of God. james 4:4 Lets not be like the world brothers and sisters, lets be sober minded and separate from the world. You can't save someone out of the world, if the live they are watching you live is just like them. God is a God of peace, not confusion, loudness, and wildness. Metal is not peace. Read all through the Bible, Old Testament and New, and you will see all through it that we are not to be like those around us, living soberly in this present dark age. Somethings aren't exactly literally written in the Bible because they didn't exist in that day, but the principles of the Bible are timeless and apply to any age.


Those scriptures you posted were about mind-sets and not following into the sinful ways of others. Remember...even Jesus ate with the most hardcore of sinners. He was hated by some of his fellow believers because of it.

Metal is about showing conviction, passion, hating the ways of evil. It's warfare.

[christandisrael]

It isn't about the music, it's the life we live.

[flitznarb]

Well I do find it hard to Pray while having relations with my wife, Should I stop according to this line of thought ?:D That was a good one! Do you do comedy?:P

[christandisrael]

Could you explain?

[bod44]

I really want someone to pull a verse that states any type of tradition (because that what really music is) that teachers God's principles in different ways is wrong. Fitting music into God's kingdom just makes it easier for people to make the transition to the gospel and it doesn't affect it's integrety at all.
since when is the "transition into the kingdom of God" supposed to be easy? The gospel is offensive. Jesus astonished people. Why would it change to please people now? That goes right along with the being like the world to win the world. There are churches that have ads saying: find a church that fits your lifestyle, blah blah, thats us, etc. It was aired on a non-christian station. Since when is a worldly person supposed to fit in with a church? Why should his lifestyle fit in with the churches? Its because the church of america is backslidden, has lost its first love, and is no different from the world. I firmly believe that the church of today is sending more people to hell than sin, because the church is using christianity as an excuse to live in sin, to be like teh world, etc. Breaks my heart.

[bod44]

I would also like to add that there is nothing in the Bible to support the bogus claims that Christian rock/metal is sinful and wrong. :)
How about avoid even the appearance of evil? 1 Thessalonians 5:22? How about be ye not conformed to this world but be ye transformed by the renewing of your minds Romans 12:2? The Bible isn't going to say don't listen to metal, because metal didn't exist. But, the principle still stands. Don't listen to metal, because metal is a wild style of music that the world listens to. And 85% of christians are totally against metal even non-christians don't like metal cuz its too crazy so that should be proof that its not edifying! Bottom line is, we are to sing music that edifies. Demon Hunter doesn't edify. It is someone changing the lyrics from a murder song to a "killing devils song". We don't kill devils, God does, we are powerless against the devil! Christian metal is an excuse to be angry still but claim its righteous indignation. Instead of looking for scripture that says metal is wrong, if thats not what you want to do, try finding scripture that defends the principles of metal! You won't find any, only verses against it.

[bod44]

First..meek doesn't mean spineless. :) By American definition Jesus was anything BUT meek.

As for metal being angry. Not at all. It's about passion and rightous anger towards things that are wrong. Just the way God is against such things. When i'm yelling out hardcore vocals, I'm not yelling out in anger...it's passion. It's CONVICTION. :)
Hmmmm.... I was a christian metal player for 2 years and I never found yelling worshipful. We aren't supposed to mad at the devil! God is! He has the right to be angry because he is holy! Most of us aren't even close to where God wants us so why are we getting angry about sin in the world when its in our own lives? Meek isn't spineless, but meek is humble. THere is absolutely no humiliity whatsoever involved in metal.

[bod44]

Those scriptures you posted were about mind-sets and not following into the sinful ways of others. Remember...even Jesus ate with the most hardcore of sinners. He was hated by some of his fellow believers because of it.

Metal is about showing conviction, passion, hating the ways of evil. It's warfare.
Yes, jesus ate with the sinners, I put myself around sinners so that I can reach them. Guess how jesus won them? Guess how I win them? By being separate from the world! I'm with the sinners, but completely different! Stop trying to justify worldliness to say that its ministry! I tried and it only leads to defeat! Jesus didn't act like the world, dress like the world, talk like the world, etc to win them. They were drawn to him because he was holy, and different.

[Kelly]

Then we should only listen to the music of beating rocks with sticks or whatever the first musical instruments the progeny of Adam and Eve developed?

Music changes. What did people play in worship before the advent of hymns? I'm sure there were people who hated the organ in church, when it first started.

[SteelDisciple]

Yes, jesus ate with the sinners, I put myself around sinners so that I can reach them. Guess how jesus won them? Guess how I win them? By being separate from the world! I'm with the sinners, but completely different! Stop trying to justify worldliness to say that its ministry! I tried and it only leads to defeat! Jesus didn't act like the world, dress like the world, talk like the world, etc to win them. They were drawn to him because he was holy, and different.

that's funny. I didn't know christianity was now about how you dress. :)
Oh...and Christian metal doesn't talk like the world, so don't know where you get that from?

[SteelDisciple]

Hmmmm.... I was a christian metal player for 2 years and I never found yelling worshipful. We aren't supposed to mad at the devil! God is! He has the right to be angry because he is holy! Most of us aren't even close to where God wants us so why are we getting angry about sin in the world when its in our own lives? Meek isn't spineless, but meek is humble. THere is absolutely no humiliity whatsoever involved in metal.

Really? I find it very worshipful. But remember...there's a difference between worship music (music for believers) and ministry music (music for believers AND spiritual warfare)
We are called to HATE sin, btw. Jesus hated sin. As should we...we should have righteous anger towards it...and disgust for it.

As for humility. It's not about that...it's about having fun too. I know, I know...some Christians thing "Gasp! Fun?? Christian? NOO!!!!!"
And those are the people I feel a great bit of pity for.

[SteelDisciple]

How about avoid even the appearance of evil? 1 Thessalonians 5:22? How about be ye not conformed to this world but be ye transformed by the renewing of your minds Romans 12:2? The Bible isn't going to say don't listen to metal, because metal didn't exist. But, the principle still stands. Don't listen to metal, because metal is a wild style of music that the world listens to. And 85% of christians are totally against metal even non-christians don't like metal cuz its too crazy so that should be proof that its not edifying! Bottom line is, we are to sing music that edifies. Demon Hunter doesn't edify. It is someone changing the lyrics from a murder song to a "killing devils song". We don't kill devils, God does, we are powerless against the devil! Christian metal is an excuse to be angry still but claim its righteous indignation. Instead of looking for scripture that says metal is wrong, if thats not what you want to do, try finding scripture that defends the principles of metal! You won't find any, only verses against it.

The appearance of evil? Sooo...my leather jacket is now evil? Eh? Don't try to make that verse into what you wear. It's not even remotely talking about that. :)

Metal wild? Most people I've talked to don't use the word "wild" to describe it. I for one find the musical arrangements beautiful. The complexity and musicianship is absolutely beautiful. It's not chaos. It's art.

I know a great many people who were saved through the Spirit speaking to them THROUGH A demon Hunter song, btw. :) I get convicted on many of their songs. Oh and there are not any "killing devil" songs. Christian metal is about the problems we face in the world and how to deal with them.

Now, besides that...I ALSO listen to Metal because I like it. And hey, guess what? Liking something isn't sin. Some fundi's may find that shocking. As for edifying...you must really think the Songs of Solomon are pornography...cause that's edifying a woman, not God. :) you must also hate quite a bit of the Psalms...as many of those are centered on complaining and venting of frustration.

[SteelDisciple]

Well, here is something that I have alot of experience in. Before I got saved, I was in a heavy metal band. We were pretty poplular locally and it was alot of fun. After I got saved, I tried to play christian metal. It doesn't work. I'll tell you why I think its not good. What is the spirit of the music? If you go to a metal concert, or see people listening to metal in their car, what are they doing? What is the fruit of the music? "Rocking out"! Head banging, dancing crazily, etc. First of all I would say that metal was started as angry music and will always sound angry no matter what the lyrics, secondly, we are told in the bible to be sober and meek and I hardly think that metal fits in that category. The fruit of metal is craziness or anger. You can't hear the lyrics usually either. I had great lyrics in my songs, but the thundering guitars etc block everything out! Plus, who does it glorify? Everyone listens and says, man, that guitarist is great! or that singer is crazy etc! It doesn't glorify God. Metal cannot bring someone to a calm Godly peace that surpasseth all understanding. And it also is just like the world. 1 Thessalonians 5:22 says to avoid even the appearacne of evil! Metal appears evil like any other metal group. I can't tell if you're listening to Christian or non-Christian metal if you drive by me in your car with it blaring. So, I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say its a sin, but its not a good idea. The object of the christian life is how far away from the world can we get, yet reach them with the light of a Godly life, not how close to the edge can we get! If I win a soul to christ, would they look at my life and say hmmm, it looks just like the life I had before, just worded a little differently? Be ye separate! In the world and not of them! We don't have to be like the world to win the world, in fact, a conservative Godly life, will convict more hearts than anything else.
Phi 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.



I'd be willing to bet Demon Hunter has saved more people than you will in your lifetime. :) Yes, it's not a race to see who can win the most souls...but the reach more people (people who wouldn't be caught dead around you) on stage AND off stage. You know how many people i've talked to who were non-Christian and then realized they were Christian when they went to one of their concerts and suddenly their whole view on Christianity changed for the better? A LOT. These guys can rock hard...but they are DIFFERENT.

They play in the world...but they are not a part of it. The lead singer is really on fire for God and it shows in him. That's the key...you can be in the world...but not OF the world. And I think that's where you get confused. You think these guys are OF the world...but that's NOT where their heart is. And that is what matters.

[twistedsketch]

Yes, jesus ate with the sinners, I put myself around sinners so that I can reach them. Guess how jesus won them? Guess how I win them? By being separate from the world! I'm with the sinners, but completely different! Stop trying to justify worldliness to say that its ministry! I tried and it only leads to defeat! Jesus didn't act like the world, dress like the world, talk like the world, etc to win them. They were drawn to him because he was holy, and different.
I guess that means we should invent an exclusively Christian style of dress. Worldly people wear blue jeans, and we must be seperate!

Your problem is that you have not recovered from the associations you had in your old life of metal being connected to sin. It's common, and it's not confined to music. I really believe it's a stage, based on testimonies I have heard. One fine day, you may find yourself strong enough to enjoy metal music again without your mind going back to its old ways. And God may just call you to it.

I'm not saying everyone needs to like Christian metal, but they should respect it because God uses it. There are Christian metal bands that have very evangelical lyrics, even salvation prayers are included with their CDs. There have been quite a few Christian metal songs that have built me up as a believer, and others too. Maybe Christian metal isn't for you, but it darned well has the right to exist.

[Kelly]

I love how much I find myself on CF defending something I don't even like. Several times in the bible you hear "Sing a new song". The human race has been doing that since we began.

God gave us the ability to create and change, and that includes musical instruments and styles. That any modern type of music can be used to reach kids or, just as importantly, to keep them is great.

[bod44]

okay first of all, I never said that it was a sin to listen or perform Christian Metal. So stop saying I said that. But, metal is a mindset and the mindset is not peaceful. I don't doubt that christian metal musicians reach people, because God promised that His word would not return void. But, as long as we are just like the world there is nothing for them to be saved from! And as for the talk and look thing. Appearance isn't just clothes. A dark stage with lights and guys in dark clothes rocking out with thundering guitars "appears" like any other metal band. Only the lyrics are different. How is that not the appearance of evil? And yes, we aren't supposed to dress like the world. Stop being foolish and putting words in my mouth. I would never say that there should be only one type of christian clothes. That is a ridiculous and foolish thing to say. God forbid that we would do something that legalistic. But, we aren't supposed to belong to every fad of the world, to dress immodestly like the world, to peirce and tattoo our bodies like the world. I don't think that there is a particular dress code to live by, but I think that God has called us to be different from the world! How can you read the Bible and not see that we are not to be conformed to the world? That means to look, act, sing, listen to, think like, etc. the world. But be ye transformed and conformed to Christ! Christlike!! btw I have nothing wrong with fun, but fun can be taken too far and you know that.
I grow weary of every single thread that involves things like this, or sexual sins, because the american church is completely conformed to the world, and somehow I'm looked at as legalistic when I list what the scripture says. I don't want to argue brothers! I want to help explain and exhort others to follow the word of God. This forum in general has very little scripture in it! Isn't that what we are supposed to live by? Stop explaining what our minds think, or what other people say, and start comparing things with the principles of the word and our perspective will change. btw please stop acting like I don't know anything about metal! I played in metal bands for over 6 years.
Well, I don't want to keep arguing over this, and I don't even want to address everything you guys brought up because they are the same responses I would get from a sinner that just got saved. They are no-brainers for anyone who has studied the word. When the Bible says be not like the world, it means, don't be like the world! When it says avoid all appearance of evil, it means avoid all appearance of evil! Whats the argument?

[Daniels]

Thnak you so much for all your views.

[PrincetonGuy]

Is it sinful to listen to hard rock and heavy metal?


Your thoughts

When you have to ask if something is sinful, it is usually VERY sinful! Being a Christian is not living like the devil and wondering if it is sinful; being a Christian is dying to one’s self and one’s own desires and allowing Christ to live through us.

Gal. 2:20. "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. (NASB, 1995)

This is NOT just a memory verse—it is a verse to live by, every moment of every day in thought and in deed.

[whateveristrue]

After thinking things over, I realize the Church is in worse condition than most of us care to admit. If Christian metal does become mainstream, I think it would be a problem... Jesus returning while his people are screaming and banging heads... I don't know.

However, I do see how metal can be used as a tool to target a specific group. And if for the sole purpose of evangelism, I think it's okay. Whatever it takes to get people into heaven, right?

[SteelDisciple]

I wasn't going to bother posting again...because I'd rather not fall into the mindset of some fundi legalist...but I'll post again. :)

Being Christian doesn't mean you can't ENJOY the life God granted you. It doesn't mean you can't appreciate the beauty of music or works of art. You can be IN the world, but not OF the world. Infact, we HAVE to be in the world...if we live in our own little Christian Bubble we won't be helping anyone. The difference between being IN the world and being OF the world is in our hearts...where our true love is. (that's of course God)

Solomon is a prime example. He ENJOYED the life God granted him. He threw parties for friends, he wrote an entire book about the sexual and emotional love of a woman. He was ALSO one of the wisest people by God's standards (which is a standard most of us will never meet). He had more than one book in the bible. Infact, one of the books was of course a book based on wisdom in dealing with the world (funny that).

Solomon was WISE in God's eyes...and he enjoyed his life. He was in the world, but not OF it. His fruits did not betray his faith in God or his conscience (many things are permissable...but if rock music doesn't feel right to your conscience...then it IS sin if you listen)

Unfortunetly...some overly legalistic Christians believe fun is of the devil. They mistake enjoying life for being a lover of oneself when there is a STARK difference bewteen enjoying life and loving ones self. You can still enjoy life to the fullest and still have your whole heart for God.

[twistedsketch]

okay first of all, I never said that it was a sin to listen or perform Christian Metal. So stop saying I said that. But, metal is a mindset and the mindset is not peaceful. I don't doubt that christian metal musicians reach people, because God promised that His word would not return void. But, as long as we are just like the world there is nothing for them to be saved from! And as for the talk and look thing. Appearance isn't just clothes. A dark stage with lights and guys in dark clothes rocking out with thundering guitars "appears" like any other metal band. Only the lyrics are different. How is that not the appearance of evil? And yes, we aren't supposed to dress like the world. Stop being foolish and putting words in my mouth. I would never say that there should be only one type of christian clothes. That is a ridiculous and foolish thing to say. God forbid that we would do something that legalistic. But, we aren't supposed to belong to every fad of the world, to dress immodestly like the world, to peirce and tattoo our bodies like the world. I don't think that there is a particular dress code to live by, but I think that God has called us to be different from the world! How can you read the Bible and not see that we are not to be conformed to the world? That means to look, act, sing, listen to, think like, etc. the world. But be ye transformed and conformed to Christ! Christlike!! btw I have nothing wrong with fun, but fun can be taken too far and you know that.
I grow weary of every single thread that involves things like this, or sexual sins, because the american church is completely conformed to the world, and somehow I'm looked at as legalistic when I list what the scripture says. I don't want to argue brothers! I want to help explain and exhort others to follow the word of God. This forum in general has very little scripture in it! Isn't that what we are supposed to live by? Stop explaining what our minds think, or what other people say, and start comparing things with the principles of the word and our perspective will change. btw please stop acting like I don't know anything about metal! I played in metal bands for over 6 years.
Well, I don't want to keep arguing over this, and I don't even want to address everything you guys brought up because they are the same responses I would get from a sinner that just got saved. They are no-brainers for anyone who has studied the word. When the Bible says be not like the world, it means, don't be like the world! When it says avoid all appearance of evil, it means avoid all appearance of evil! Whats the argument?
From what I'm reading here, you're talking out both ends of your mouth. It's either sinful or it isn't. If it isn't, then it deserves tolerance, as taught in Romans 14 and 15.

[SteelDisciple]

okay first of all, I never said that it was a sin to listen or perform Christian Metal. So stop saying I said that. But, metal is a mindset and the mindset is not peaceful. I don't doubt that christian metal musicians reach people, because God promised that His word would not return void. But, as long as we are just like the world there is nothing for them to be saved from! And as for the talk and look thing. Appearance isn't just clothes. A dark stage with lights and guys in dark clothes rocking out with thundering guitars "appears" like any other metal band. Only the lyrics are different. How is that not the appearance of evil? And yes, we aren't supposed to dress like the world. Stop being foolish and putting words in my mouth. I would never say that there should be only one type of christian clothes. That is a ridiculous and foolish thing to say. God forbid that we would do something that legalistic. But, we aren't supposed to belong to every fad of the world, to dress immodestly like the world, to peirce and tattoo our bodies like the world. I don't think that there is a particular dress code to live by, but I think that God has called us to be different from the world! How can you read the Bible and not see that we are not to be conformed to the world? That means to look, act, sing, listen to, think like, etc. the world. But be ye transformed and conformed to Christ! Christlike!! btw I have nothing wrong with fun, but fun can be taken too far and you know that.
I grow weary of every single thread that involves things like this, or sexual sins, because the american church is completely conformed to the world, and somehow I'm looked at as legalistic when I list what the scripture says. I don't want to argue brothers! I want to help explain and exhort others to follow the word of God. This forum in general has very little scripture in it! Isn't that what we are supposed to live by? Stop explaining what our minds think, or what other people say, and start comparing things with the principles of the word and our perspective will change. btw please stop acting like I don't know anything about metal! I played in metal bands for over 6 years.
Well, I don't want to keep arguing over this, and I don't even want to address everything you guys brought up because they are the same responses I would get from a sinner that just got saved. They are no-brainers for anyone who has studied the word. When the Bible says be not like the world, it means, don't be like the world! When it says avoid all appearance of evil, it means avoid all appearance of evil! Whats the argument?


This post is where you make your mistake. You say we are not to conform to the world. The bible says that as well. But guess what...guys like Demon Hunter...they DON'T conform to the world. They are expressing their faith in the way they best know how...the way they feel is the best way to express their faith.

They may be IN the world...but they are not for it...they are not OF it...
When the Bible says do not be like the world...it means in your heart, you're spirit. Don't thirst after the same things non-believers thirst after, etc.

Demon Hunter doesn't do that...they take a style of music they LIKE and use it to express their faith and a message. They may be playing metal...but it's not the message of the world...and their hearts are not grounded in the world...but in the Word.

[Quantos]

When you have to ask if something is sinful, it is usually VERY sinful! Being a Christian is not living like the devil and wondering if it is sinful; being a Christian is dying to one’s self and one’s own desires and allowing Christ to live through us.

Gal. 2:20. "I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me. (NASB, 1995)

This is NOT just a memory verse—it is a verse to live by, every moment of every day in thought and in deed.

So is it sinful to ask if somthing is sinful ?

[christandisrael]

So is it sinful to ask if somthing is sinful ?
Uh, what do you mean?

[Quantos]

Uh, what do you mean?

It was a play on this part

When you have to ask if something is sinful, it is usually VERY sinful!

Thereby stating that it is usually sinful to ask if somthing is sinful

[SteelDisciple]

Welp! I believe this debate is over, right? It seems all the questions were answered justly. :)

[bod44]

From what I'm reading here, you're talking out both ends of your mouth. It's either sinful or it isn't. If it isn't, then it deserves tolerance, as taught in Romans 14 and 15.
well, I'm not sure where I came off wrong! lol I believe its wrong and its a sin to be like the world. If we walk in the light that God gives us, Jesus' blood cleanses us. Now that we've had this conversation, perhaps you have light on this, and now, only now, it would be a sin for you. When I first got saved I had no clue that some things are wrong! God knows that and thats why he sheds light and we walk in it. See what I mean?

[bod44]

yes, I think it should be over too! Lets all agree to disagree. I think I see in and not of a little different than you and thats okay. I would think of the music itself as conforming, but anyways, great chatting brothers! God will lead us, and its our responsibility to walk in the light he gives us!
God bless!

[KathyJohnston]

My son likes Judas-Priest,and Iron-Maiden.Although he admits the words are bad,he compares their music to Bethoven,or Bach.Each band is unique,in it's own music,and can't be duplicated by any other band.

[bod44]

My son likes Judas-Priest,and Iron-Maiden.Although he admits the words are bad,he compares their music to Bethoven,or Bach.Each band is unique,in it's own music,and can't be duplicated by any other band.
having been a metal musician I know what you mean. Metallica did a cd with an orchestra and their music was so beautiful that way it was crazy. But, since when does beautiful notes on paper justify a sinful spirit or sinful lyrics? That is the question. See, the Bible says that the devil makes himself to be an angel of light to decieve us. The Bible talks about the devil looking beautiful! He can decieve us because on the outside it looks great, but by their fruits ye shall know them. So-called Christian metal is possibly justifiable depending on the light of the individual, but blaitantly non-christian? That is a blaitant sin. most of that is demonic. That frightens me that your son listens to them.

[PrincetonGuy]

I wasn't going to bother posting again...because I'd rather not fall into the mindset of some fundi legalist...but I'll post again. :)

Being Christian doesn't mean you can't ENJOY the life God granted you. It doesn't mean you can't appreciate the beauty of music or works of art. You can be IN the world, but not OF the world. Infact, we HAVE to be in the world...if we live in our own little Christian Bubble we won't be helping anyone. The difference between being IN the world and being OF the world is in our hearts...where our true love is. (that's of course God)

Solomon is a prime example. He ENJOYED the life God granted him. He threw parties for friends, he wrote an entire book about the sexual and emotional love of a woman. He was ALSO one of the wisest people by God's standards (which is a standard most of us will never meet). He had more than one book in the bible. Infact, one of the books was of course a book based on wisdom in dealing with the world (funny that).

Solomon was WISE in God's eyes...and he enjoyed his life. He was in the world, but not OF it. His fruits did not betray his faith in God or his conscience (many things are permissable...but if rock music doesn't feel right to your conscience...then it IS sin if you listen)

Unfortunetly...some overly legalistic Christians believe fun is of the devil. They mistake enjoying life for being a lover of oneself when there is a STARK difference bewteen enjoying life and loving ones self. You can still enjoy life to the fullest and still have your whole heart for God.

Three Points:

1. Solomon was NOT a Christian and to emulate the life of a non-Christian is a one-way ticket to the fires of hell.

2. Being a Christian is NOT about having fun; being a Christian is about dying to one’s self and letting Christ live through us in service to others.

3. Legalism is the attitude, belief, and teaching that a Christian is justified by keeping the Mosaic Law in addition to having a personal faith in Christ (see Galatians, chapters 2-5 for a detailed discussion of legalism). Believing the Bible, taking God at His word, and applying it to everyday living is NOT legalism—believing the Bible, taking God at His word, and applying it to everyday living is the responsibility of every Christian and every church.

1. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2. May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4. Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6. knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7. for he who has died is freed from sin.
8. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9. knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13. and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16. Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17. But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18. and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21. Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
22. But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
23. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[holo]

Whatever rocks your boat...

[Kelly]

Three Points:

1. Solomon was NOT a Christian and to emulate the life of a non-Christian is a one-way ticket to the fires of hell.


The entire Bible is useful for teaching, including proverbs. No one is basing their salvation on the Old Testament, but it can be useful.

[SteelDisciple]

Three Points:

1. Solomon was NOT a Christian and to emulate the life of a non-Christian is a one-way ticket to the fires of hell.

2. Being a Christian is NOT about having fun; being a Christian is about dying to one’s self and letting Christ live through us in service to others.

3. Legalism is the attitude, belief, and teaching that a Christian is justified by keeping the Mosaic Law in addition to having a personal faith in Christ (see Galatians, chapters 2-5 for a detailed discussion of legalism). Believing the Bible, taking God at His word, and applying it to everyday living is NOT legalism—believing the Bible, taking God at His word, and applying it to everyday living is the responsibility of every Christian and every church.

1. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2. May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4. Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6. knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7. for he who has died is freed from sin.
8. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9. knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13. and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.
15. What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be!
16. Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?
17. But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,
18. and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19. I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.
20. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21. Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death.
22. But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.
23. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
I find it sad that some Christians believe that once you become Christian you can no longer have fun...and when you enjoy something for the sake of enjoying it, suddenly you are a lover of yourself.It seems some cannot see the difference. That somehow...having fun and being saved are seperate. :) I'm actually following all those teachings btw. :) Therefore all your posting seems to be moot?

[SteelDisciple]

well, I'm not sure where I came off wrong! lol I believe its wrong and its a sin to be like the world. If we walk in the light that God gives us, Jesus' blood cleanses us. Now that we've had this conversation, perhaps you have light on this, and now, only now, it would be a sin for you. When I first got saved I had no clue that some things are wrong! God knows that and thats why he sheds light and we walk in it. See what I mean?
You just said not to be like the world. Guys like Demon Hunter are NOT like the world. Their heart is completely the OPPOSITE of the world. Their lives are not like those lives of secular bands...they aren't going around having sex...their not doing drugs or showing attitude to fellow human beings that is opposite how Christ would treat them.They are NOT of the world...but they are IN the world. Big difference. I work in an office...i'm an office worker just like the billions of other people out there...but what seperates me from the world...from others is that my heart is not dwelling on the things of the world but on Christ and salvation.

[twistedsketch]

Three Points:

1. Solomon was NOT a Christian and to emulate the life of a non-Christian is a one-way ticket to the fires of hell.

Agreed, I don't think Solomon was a good example to use because lack of restraint became his downfall.



2. Being a Christian is NOT about having fun; being a Christian is about dying to one’s self and letting Christ live through us in service to others.
True, but it doesn't mean we're not allowed to enjoy ourselves either. If we take the "anti-fun" stance, we become a burden to people and can stunt their spiritual growth. We shouldn't excuse what the Bible says is sin, but we certainly can't afford to condemn other stuff and be sourpusses all the time.



3. Legalism is the attitude, belief, and teaching that a Christian is justified by keeping the Mosaic Law in addition to having a personal faith in Christ (see Galatians, chapters 2-5 for a detailed discussion of legalism). Believing the Bible, taking God at His word, and applying it to everyday living is NOT legalism—believing the Bible, taking God at His word, and applying it to everyday living is the responsibility of every Christian and every church.
That is one thing legalism is, but it's not confined to that. We need to be careful not to fall in the trap the Pharisees did:

"Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you." - Deuteronomy 4:2

"So be careful to do what the LORD your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left." - Deuteronomy 5:32

Legalism is taking human ideas and traditions and making them as authoritative as the Word of God. Overanalysis and over theologizing led the Pharisees into this trap. We should follow it and apply it, but we have no right to add to it - that is liberalism in the other direction.

When you look at what the Bible says about music, it gives no possibility for any kind of music being inherently evil. The main contention here though, is that we are to be different from the world. But Scripture says we are to be different from the world in terms of behavior, not style (barring modesty requirements for women). New Christians didn't have to get different kinds of tunics or anything like that. They were different enough avoiding debauchery, orgies, idolatry, etc (1 Peter 4:2-4). Regardless of the music you listen to, if you can be different from the world in big ways like this, being an example in speech and in how you treat others, that's going to be one heck of an example. People are going to see that you are a genuine Christian and you don't have to be affeminate - because quite frankly, the music and style that most Christians see as "acceptable" is viewed by me and metalheads as "gay."

[Quantos]

About Christians having fun...


Remember Even God has a sense of humor.
He created You.

[twistedsketch]

Remember Even God has a sense of humor.
He created You.
That's funny, I'm going to have to remember that.

[SteelDisciple]

Let's take a look at the band Anberlin. They are not metal...however they are rock. Most of their songs are about relationships and love. Some christians would look at that and say "That's not christian!!!"

By saying that...you're also saying that the Songs of Solomon...a book within God's holy word is not Christian.

Enjoying life isn't a sin. Having a hobby or interest is NOT a sin. It also doesn't mean you are OF the world...it just means you are in it...but your heart is with God. That's something some people will NEVER understand.

[bod44]

k, well I feel like once again I'm being misunderstood! lol I believe in having fun. Wholesome fun. I "jam" with my buddies sometimes, I go snowmobiling, I play football, and yes the difference is that everything I do, I do unto the glory of God. But, you're missing my point again. I didn't say that Demon Hunter's heart was in the wrong place. I said that their music gives the same appearance that any other metal band gives and until you hear the lyrics you won't know its christian, therefore I think that that is along the lines of the appearance of evil or conforming to the world. You see what I mean? Like I said, I think its good to reach out and not just sit in your church, and I think its possible to reach people with christian metal, but I don't think thats God's ideal. Just because you're not doing drugs or not having sex doesn't mean you're holy! THere are alot of people that don't have sex, drink, or do drugs, that are on their way to hell. I agree with mr princeton, fun should not be our goal. I have fun, but I spend probably 95% percent of my time doing things that really couldn't be described as fun. When I have spare time, I would rather read the word or pray than go head bang or even calmer things. I heard a preacher say once, if anything is more precious than your quiet time with God, than you are backslidden. I believe that to be the truth. So, I'm not condemning anyone necessarily, but I believe metal is metal, whatever the lyrics. And the spirit of metal is not a spirit of peace. It does not edify the saints. Therefore I wouldn't listen to it. But, Some of you don't apparently think thats true, and thats fine, but rather than openly arguing and justifying right away, do what I ended up doing when I used to justify worldliness, I finally looked at it with an open mind and I starting going through the word and holding it up against the scriptures and thats what changed my mind. So, anyways, I thought this thread was done! lol Lets reckon ourselves to be dead unto this world! Lets pursue better things! Walk in the light that you have, and don't stray! Pray pray pray that God will continue to give light, if we aren't getting closer to God each day, than we really aren't doing well. We never have reached a final goal until we are in heaven so lets forget those things behind us and reach forward to apprehend that which is before us!
Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

[SteelDisciple]

k, well I feel like once again I'm being misunderstood! lol I believe in having fun. Wholesome fun. I "jam" with my buddies sometimes, I go snowmobiling, I play football, and yes the difference is that everything I do, I do unto the glory of God. But, you're missing my point again. I didn't say that Demon Hunter's heart was in the wrong place. I said that their music gives the same appearance that any other metal band gives and until you hear the lyrics you won't know its christian, therefore I think that that is along the lines of the appearance of evil or conforming to the world. You see what I mean? Like I said, I think its good to reach out and not just sit in your church, and I think its possible to reach people with christian metal, but I don't think thats God's ideal. Just because you're not doing drugs or not having sex doesn't mean you're holy! THere are alot of people that don't have sex, drink, or do drugs, that are on their way to hell. I agree with mr princeton, fun should not be our goal. I have fun, but I spend probably 95% percent of my time doing things that really couldn't be described as fun. When I have spare time, I would rather read the word or pray than go head bang or even calmer things. I heard a preacher say once, if anything is more precious than your quiet time with God, than you are backslidden. I believe that to be the truth. So, I'm not condemning anyone necessarily, but I believe metal is metal, whatever the lyrics. And the spirit of metal is not a spirit of peace. It does not edify the saints. Therefore I wouldn't listen to it. But, Some of you don't apparently think thats true, and thats fine, but rather than openly arguing and justifying right away, do what I ended up doing when I used to justify worldliness, I finally looked at it with an open mind and I starting going through the word and holding it up against the scriptures and thats what changed my mind. So, anyways, I thought this thread was done! lol Lets reckon ourselves to be dead unto this world! Lets pursue better things! Walk in the light that you have, and don't stray! Pray pray pray that God will continue to give light, if we aren't getting closer to God each day, than we really aren't doing well. We never have reached a final goal until we are in heaven so lets forget those things behind us and reach forward to apprehend that which is before us!
Phi 3:13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
Phi 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Col 3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.



Here's the thing...:) When you snowboard...even if in your heart it it's for glory of God...you LOOK like just any other non-Christian. When I go to the office...in my heart it's for the glory of God...but on the outside it is the appearance of the world...When you play football...in your heart it's for the glory of God...but on the outside it's the appearance of the world.

Kind of see where i'm coming from now? :) I mean, I suppose I could walk around my office and everytime I enter an invoice I could yell out "Glory be to the Lord!!" But that wouldn't be helping anything. (though it would be fun to do.heheh) What seperates YOU from the other football players or snowboarders is that you are saved...and that your reason for snowboarding isn't JUST for enjoyment...but for Christ in your heart.

I believe it's the same with music...they are doing a job, it also happens to be something they really enjoy doing. Just like other people...the difference is they are proclaiming themselves Christians by their actions, the choices they make and the lyrics they write.

I guess that's the best way I can word how I feel on the subject...some may not agree...but...that's what I truely believe.


Just wanted to add something very very ironic...bands like Demon Hunter...from the people i've talked to...they are viewed as Christians who ROCK hard.
But there are some who believe they are not even Christian at all for rocking hard. The irony is that non-christians see their faith more than those who share their faith. :) I don't know...just found that so ironic I wanted to share. (not saying anyone here thinks they are not christians...but I HAVE talk to people like that)

[ShawneeA]

Here's the thing...:) When you snowboard...even if in your heart it it's for glory of God...you LOOK like just any other non-Christian. When I go to the office...in my heart it's for the glory of God...but on the outside it is the appearance of the world...When you play football...in your heart it's for the glory of God...but on the outside it's the appearance of the world.

Kind of see where i'm coming from now? :) I mean, I suppose I could walk around my office and everytime I enter an invoice I could yell out "Glory be to the Lord!!" But that wouldn't be helping anything. (though it would be fun to do.heheh) What seperates YOU from the other football players or snowboarders is that you are saved...and that your reason for snowboarding isn't JUST for enjoyment...but for Christ in your heart.

I believe it's the same with music...they are doing a job, it also happens to be something they really enjoy doing. Just like other people...the difference is they are proclaiming themselves Christians by their actions, the choices they make and the lyrics they write.

I guess that's the best way I can word how I feel on the subject...some may not agree...but...that's what I truely believe.


Just wanted to add something very very ironic...bands like Demon Hunter...from the people i've talked to...they are viewed as Christians who ROCK hard.
But there are some who believe they are not even Christian at all for rocking hard. The irony is that non-christians see their faith more than those who share their faith. :) I don't know...just found that so ironic I wanted to share. (not saying anyone here thinks they are not christians...but I HAVE talk to people like that)
Thanks Steel.. a big thumbs up to your explanation..
soooooooooo many times, I have often NOT done something because I was worried the world would see me as doing something non-Christian. The more I grow as a Christian and the older I get, I am accepting that I CAN do some things I really like to do, because I am doing it with Christ in my heart.

Thanks man

[whateveristrue]

Thanks Steel.. a big thumbs up to your explanation..
soooooooooo many times, I have often NOT done something because I was worried the world would see me as doing something non-Christian. The more I grow as a Christian and the older I get, I am accepting that I CAN do some things I really like to do, because I am doing it with Christ in my heart.

Thanks man


I'd still becareful though. You CAN do those things as long as you're not sinning.

Well, I'm gonna go rob a bank... but I'm doing it with Christ in my heart, so it's OK.
I don't think that works. :)

[ShawneeA]

:thumbsup:

[ronmathison]

Iron Maiden is going to tour

because of their new album

(in the U.S. and some of Canada, starting in a few months)


I want to go and see them.


(I've seen them twice, already, in the 80's)


I love Jesus, and if certain lyrics of a song

are bad, my beliefs WON'T be affected.


Also, they just sound GREAT!!


Would YOU turn down

seeing: THE BEATLES (if you could),

just because they

never sang Amazing Grace?

[whateveristrue]

I love Jesus, and if certain lyrics of a song

are bad, my beliefs WON'T be affected.


Also, they just sound GREAT!!


Would YOU turn down

seeing: THE BEATLES (if you could),

just because they

never sang Amazing Grace?

No, a band doesn't have to sing Amazing Grace in order for me to like them. I enjoy great music too!

However, IF a band attributes their songs and lyrics to satan.... yes, I would turn them down. Even if they sound good.

[christandisrael]

No, a band doesn't have to sing Amazing Grace in order for me to like them. I enjoy great music too!

However, IF a band attributes their songs and lyrics to satan.... yes, I would turn them down. Even if they sound good.
It's the motive of their hearts.

[bod44]

I wouldn't listen to the beatles singing Amazing Grace!! They aren't singing it in worship to God! Did their lives shine anything even remotely close to a holy, God fearing life? Nope! You could sing a wonderfully good song with great lyrics and still be an abomination to God! God hates a fake! And I agree with steel that yes its the motive of the heart, but again I think that trying to use football or snowboarding as an example doesn't work because thats much different. but anyways, we're starting to go in circles! lol I still love you as a brother in Christ and I'm not gonna freak out! lol God bless you and I know that if you are truly walking honestly before God, then you're not in sin in anyway!
Grace and peace to all! Rock on!? lol hmmmm... dunno if that works for me... lol

[shanester]

The question is, does it draw you closer to the Lord. Conviction will tell you!

[Kelly]

It's clear for SteelDisciple that it draws him very close, as it probably does for thousands who appreciate heavier music with a Christian message.

[ronmathison]

IF a band attributes their songs and lyrics to satan....

I've NEVER heard of ANY band, that

flat-out-says:

"We attribute our songs and lyrics to Satan."

(although Slayer, Venom, and Deicide (yuck), seem pretty Satanic, to me. )

From Iron Maiden's 'Rhyme of The Ancient Mariner' : "...That we should love all things that God made..."

From the beginning of the song 'Revelations' on the album 'piece of mind' :

"O God of Earth and Altar,
Bow down and hear our cry,
Our earthly rulers falter,
Our people drift and die,
The walls of gold entomb us,
The swords of scorn divide,
Take not thy thunder from us,
But take away our pride."
(G.K. Chesterton: English Hymnal)

[twistedsketch]

I've NEVER heard of ANY band, that

flat-out-says:

"We attribute our songs and lyrics to Satan."

...although Slayer, Venom, and Deicide (yuck), seem pretty Satanic, to me.
Led Zeppelin attributed "Stairway to Heaven" to a spirit.

[ronmathison]

Led Zeppelin attributed "Stairway to Heaven" to a spirit.

I've NEVER heard that.

And I'm a big Led-Zeppelin fan.

Prove it: WHICH member of Led Zeppelin said that?


Robert Plant wrote the words to Stairway to Heaven (which were later altered) while simply listening to Jimmy Page play the guitar.


(I love Led Zeppelin, and I've even seen Robert Plant in concert, twice, once with Jimmy-Page, and they played 'tons' of Led Zep. In my opinion, they invented Heavy-Metal, although it became 'heavier' with bands like Iron Maiden, and even heavier still, with bands like Metallica.)



How about this from Led Zep (Album: 'Presence' ; Song: 'In My Time Of Dying'):

"Meet me Jesus, meet me Lord, meet me in the middle of the air, Lord."

[SteelDisciple]

The question is, does it draw you closer to the Lord. Conviction will tell you!


Then it's great.:) Because Christian metal and hardcore absolutely draw me closer to Him. It gives me some fuel for my conviction by hearing others feel such strong conviction and determination to change the world. :)

[Kelly]

Isn't stairway to heaven referencing Jacob's vision in the wilderness?

[twistedsketch]

Isn't stairway to heaven referencing Jacob's vision in the wilderness?
If it is, it's way off.

[ronmathison]

Isn't stairway to heaven referencing Jacob's vision in the wilderness?

Lol.

Not in my opinion.

In my opinion, it's about people who think they can buy their way to heaven (with tithing, etc).

"There's a lady who's sure all that glitters is gold, and she's BUYING a stairway to heaven."

[SteelDisciple]

you know...one thing that really amazes me about many Christian metal and hardcore bands is that they are working in a very Anti-Christian enviroment. (kind of like going to work at an office...only the other employees hate your guts because of your beliefs)

And yet...despite that...they are the light there in that darkness...they're hearts are nothing like those other people. They are saved and it shows. I know there are some secular bands who despise Christian musicians...but others i've read about actually find it kind of awe-inspiring or give them a lot of respect because these are guys who are not afraid to speak the truth...worship God or you've chosen hell. And they speak this truth in a real hardcore anti-Christian arena...no matter what.

That is what a real Christian is...I wish more people were like that.

[christandisrael]

you know...one thing that really amazes me about many Christian metal and hardcore bands is that they are working in a very Anti-Christian enviroment. (kind of like going to work at an office...only the other employees hate your guts because of your beliefs)

And yet...despite that...they are the light there in that darkness...they're hearts are nothing like those other people. They are saved and it shows. I know there are some secular bands who despise Christian musicians...but others i've read about actually find it kind of awe-inspiring or give them a lot of respect because these are guys who are not afraid to speak the truth...worship God or you've chosen hell. And they speak this truth in a real hardcore anti-Christian arena...no matter what.

That is what a real Christian is...I wish more people were like that.
Exactly. The motive of the heart.