Husband and I had a revelation about legalism....

[Katydid]

OK, so my husband and I were discussing different things last night. We started with Idolatry and as conversations move, we ended up discussing Churches and Legalism. We got onto legalism because of a comment that I made in regards to Church's tradition. Or Churches own form of legalism. I simply stated...

They were doing it out of fear of doing the wrong thing, rather than a desire to do the right thing.



Lightbulb moment!! That is the definition of legalism. Acting out of fear of sin rather than desire of obedience.


We both just looked at each other and realized that we had a revelation. We were truly shocked that we came up with that. Now it may not seem like much to you all but for us, this was big.:D

[plum]

yes Katy I so agree... great definition!

[Splayd]

Lightbulb moment!! That is the definition of legalism. Acting out of fear of sin rather than desire of obedience.:thumbsup: I like it! Mind if I borrow it? ;)

[Katydid]

Borrow away!

[visionary]

That definitely is a inspired moment... May the Lord continue to bless you with inspirations and may we receive the blessing also by you sharing them. Thank you for sharing it... like I said that is definitely an inspired moment... I love them when the lightbulb comes on ... it is like coming out of darkness into the light of His glory and truth... it just blows you away.

[HadassahSukkot]

awesome! that is so true!

[Torah]

OK, so my husband and I were discussing different things last night. We started with Idolatry and as conversations move, we ended up discussing Churches and Legalism. We got onto legalism because of a comment that I made in regards to Church's tradition. Or Churches own form of legalism. I simply stated...

They were doing it out of fear of doing the wrong thing, rather than a desire to do the right thing.



Lightbulb moment!! That is the definition of legalism. Acting out of fear of sin rather than desire of obedience.


We both just looked at each other and realized that we had a revelation. We were truly shocked that we came up with that. Now it may not seem like much to you all but for us, this was big.:D
Righteousness leading to Holiness in the first covenant was followed or kept out of fear. It was written on stone and if not followed that stone would crush.

Holiness in the second covenant is followed or kept out of love. It is written on the heart and followed out of love for our G-d. There is still a holiness{ set apart) for the people of G-d, Jew & Gentile.

http://www.christianforums.com/t3148587-holiness-what-is-it-mjs-only.html&page=2 (http://www.christianforums.com/t3148587-holiness-what-is-it-mjs-only.html&page=2)

[hadara]

I think the term "legalism" is really mis-used nowadays. It isn't even mentioned in the Bible at all, so I wonder how it has came to be.

To me, there is no such thing as legalism. It is nowhere mentioned in the Bible, and the Holy Spirit, if He wanted us to be aware of such a concept, would have let us know that such a thing existed.

I don't think there is anything wrong with obeying out of fear. Obeying out of fear is better than not obeying at all, but of course obeying because you love God is also good.

Whatever keeps one of out Gehenna. If it takes obeying out of fear, do it; if it takes cutting off your hand, do so; whatever it takes.

Legalism is whatever one percieves it to be, so your definition is good.

hadara

[ChavaK]

OK, so my husband and I were discussing different things last night. We started with Idolatry and as conversations move, we ended up discussing Churches and Legalism. We got onto legalism because of a comment that I made in regards to Church's tradition. Or Churches own form of legalism. I simply stated...

They were doing it out of fear of doing the wrong thing, rather than a desire to do the right thing.



Lightbulb moment!! That is the definition of legalism. Acting out of fear of sin rather than desire of obedience.


We both just looked at each other and realized that we had a revelation. We were truly shocked that we came up with that. Now it may not seem like much to you all but for us, this was big.:D

I dunno....seems like these are two sides of the same coin. Not wanting to sin seems much
the same as wanting to obey. They may be approaching
something from different aspects, but in reality identical.
Fear of sin (at least to me!) is a good thing!:)

[MattyJames]

I agree with Chavak and Hadara. Without doubt, Obediance out of Love is better than obediance out of fear. but in the end they both lead to the same conclusion, obediance.

See, I didn't get into Sex, Drugs n Rock n Rolll when I was younger because I feared my Father and Mother (God Bless 'em). I feared the retribution that would follow. Not because I am a saint or because I wanted to. Hey I was a fired up 6'3", 200 pound, athletic hunk, I definatly wanted the Girls, the attention, to be hip. To make it worse, they wanted me to "just be nomal" as well. But it was because I knew that when all was said and done, I'd cop it when I got home. All in all, it kept me out of trouble, and on the straight and narrow. Legalisim?? I would tend to disagree. Obediance?? Most definatly.

IMHO I tend to shy away from this thought that obediance out of fear is wrong. At the moment I would say that it is perfectly ok.

Just some thoughts.

Matt James

[Sephania]

I think fences have been not belonging to just one group as many percieve. Yeshua spoke of the fences of the Pharasee, set up to protect the people they became more important than the law itself, Christians too set up fences in the very earliest days of the church, they set up fences to 'not do as the Jews do' and there fore missed much.

But individuals are also guilty of setting up their own fences.

But I think they can be good, a form of discipline, and then in some cases they can be bad in keeping you from what G-d is really trying to teach us.

[Katydid]

Zayit, you hit the nail on the head. We were discussing the early church, with tradition and extras that they threw in. They followed through out of fear, not faith. So they formed a more legalistic religion than what we are accused of doing. That is what my husband was saying, "They say we're legalistic, but look at all this" type thing. That is when I stated that we were obeying the law out of a desire for obedience, not fear.

[Sephania]

It's not just fences though, I have noticed this also occures with 'blindness' you will see many Christians pointing to the verses that saw that in part Israel will be blind ( so the gentiles can come in, but they usually forget that part like the end of Acts 15:21 ;) ) but I find that many gentile Christians are blinded in part too, and their eyes are clearing up as well but I think that is a conscious effort they need to make, in other words their heart has to want it.

Yeshua said of the church in Laodicia, to buy eyesalve from him,so they can see, and these are they that think they need nothing, that they have it all and know it all

[MattyJames]

It's not just fences though, I have noticed this also occures with 'blindness' you will see many Christians pointing to the verses that saw that in part Israel will be blind ( so the gentiles can come in, but they usually forget that part like the end of Acts 15:21 ;) ) but I find that many gentile Christians are blinded in part too, and their eyes are clearing up as well but I think that is a conscious effort they need to make, in other words their heart has to want it.

Yeshua said of the church in Laodicia, to buy eyesalve from him,so they can see, and these are they that think they need nothing, that they have it all and know it all

That cuts very close to the bone Zayit. I totally agree. Unfortunatly many more would not.

MJ