Jews for Jesus Question

[vegan]

I came across a webpage (claiming not to be anti-missionary) that had testimonals from ex-JFJ.  The page paints JFJ as a cult with its leader (forget his name) as a verbally abusive tyrant.

What is the deal with JFJ?  Are these accusations accurate?  Widespread?  Are these accusations from anti-Missionary groups (like Jews for Judaism)? 

[NOTso angry-amy]

my mom found out last night that a friend of mine from JFJ ahd called me. she mentioned her discomfort in my being involved with JFJ.

actually my first experience with JFJ was as a small child i was leaving synagogue with my mom one saturday morning and some of the older people in the congregation were making comments about jews for jesus not being "real" jews. whatever that means.

anyway- i met them 2 years ago at the urbana missions conference in urbana illinois. i walked into a conference hall and found their table. i was having a rough time with my spiritual welfare that day, and was crying by the time that i got to their table. i hadnt told my parents that i was christian and they didnt know that i was halfway accross the country at this conference and that was weighing heavily on my heart. i talked with a few people and found that i had support in calling my parents to "come out" to them. my experiences with JFJ have been positive all in all.

To my knowledge urbana doesnt invite missions organizations that are questionable. as far as i know JFJ is a missions organization and as they dont consider themselves anything but that, they cant be a cult. i could be wrong though.

[JustinWilliams]

Originally posted by NOTso angry-amy
my mom found out last night that a friend of mine from JFJ ahd called me. she mentioned her discomfort in my being involved with JFJ.

actually my first experience with JFJ was as a small child i was leaving synagogue with my mom one saturday morning and some of the older people in the congregation were making comments about jews for jesus not being "real" jews. whatever that means.




Jews who hold to Judaism do not believe that one is a "true" Jew if they leave Judaism. So to them a Jew who accepts Christ as Savior is no longer a "true" Jew.

Also Jews for Jesus is a missionary outreach consisted of Messianic Jews who witness to other Jews. Most Jews do not like JFJ trying to convert Jews and so groups such as Jews for Judaism, Outreach Judaism, and Messiah Truth have formed to try and combat any missionary activity.


God Bless

[NOTso angry-amy]

jesaiah, i was being sarcastic when i said "whatever that means." i knew very well what they meant. i understood it then, and i understand it now that i have been excommunicated since coming to faith.

 the website that i believe was originally being references is here. (http://www.exjewsforjesus.com/)

if you notice the little astericks at at the top and look for the fine print i suppose that may explain a little. these people (i believe) are anti-missionary, but they say that because they dont devote all their time to it and have other occupations they are not "anti-missionaries."

[JustinWilliams]

Originally posted by NOTso angry-amy
jesaiah, i was being sarcastic when i said "whatever that means." i knew very well what they meant. i understood it then, and i understand it now that i have been excommunicated since coming to faith.

 the website that i believe was originally being references is here. (http://www.exjewsforjesus.com/)

if you notice the little astericks at at the top and look for the fine print i suppose that may explain a little. these people (i believe) are anti-missionary, but they say that because they dont devote all their time to it and have other occupations they are not "anti-missionaries."

Sorry Amy I didn't realize you were being sarcastic :sorry: But you should know better than any of us what it feels like and means to be told you are not a "true" Jew.:(

God Bless

[Chris†opher Paul]

Bless you Amy!

What was it that convinced you?

[vegan]

Originally posted by NOTso angry-amy
 the website that i believe was originally being references is here. (http://www.exjewsforjesus.com/)

if you notice the little astericks at at the top and look for the fine print i suppose that may explain a little. these people (i believe) are anti-missionary, but they say that because they dont devote all their time to it and have other occupations they are not "anti-missionaries."

Yes, that is the page I saw.  I agree; I think they are anti-missionary and are hiding that fact to give themselves some legitimacy. 

[NOTso angry-amy]

Originally posted by s0uljah
Bless you Amy!

What was it that convinced you?

please read my thread in this forum titled "my testimony"

[Talmid HaYarok]

My main experience with JFJ came while I was living in Jerusalem. They aggressively handed out tracts (which is itself often a problem for those who wish to be left alone in a paranoid society) that were derogatory to "the law" (old testament). Also, most of the members of this group that I've met have all been Gentiles, and Jews remember very well a history they are taught about anti-semitic backlashes when they don't "choose" to follow another's direction (i.e. the late Martin Luther).

I don't mean to condemn the whole group, but this has been my experience of it.

The good news is that when this happened to me that first time in Jerusalem I was walking along with an Orthodox friend of mine. I got to witness to her on the spot and explain how the teachings in the tract were wrong because "Yeshua did not come to do away with the law, but to fulfill it".

If I were to recommend an organization it would be Bridges for Peace which does a lot of hands-on work with actually helping Jewish people in Israel and showing them love, rather than being yet one more group to push their religion on them and preach at them.

God is Love.

[NOTso angry-amy]

^aint that the truth!

[simchat_torah]

J4J was originally an outreach ministry started by the Assemblies of G-d, as a missions organization to the Jews.  Since then it has broken off of AoG and become an independant organization.  They teach that keeping the Torah is bondage, replacement theology, and call themselves christians.

In this view we should understand it is nothing more than a christian organization...

 

take from that what you will.

 

shalom,

Yafet.

[vegan]

They may reject the Talmud, but I didn't think they reject the Torah (and I am not sure that they do reject the talmud).

Yes, they are christian, but they still follow Jewish customs (saying blessings before eating, celebrating shabbat, etc). 

[simchat_torah]

Yes, they adorn themselves with "Jewish" decorations (ie: tallit) however, it is common teaching that the Torah mitzvot were passed away with the death of the Messiah in J4J.

[vegan]

Today at 09:46 PM simchat_torah said this in Post #13 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=672252#post672252)

Yes, they adorn themselves with "Jewish" decorations (ie: tallit) however, it is common teaching that the Torah mitzvot were passed away with the death of the Messiah in J4J.




I think there are some JFJ and other messianic Jews here. Maybe they can clear this up.

[Talmid HaYarok]

Of all the JFJ members I've met in Israel and in the U.S. so far not a one has actually been Jewish. According to word-of-mouth (which admittedly isn't entirely trustworthy) the great majority of them aren't Jewish at all.

The tracts I got bombarded with were definately replacement theology and rather anti-mitzvot.

Anyways if there were any JFJ members on this forum I'd be interested to hear their perspective.

[simchat_torah]

Vegan,

I do not need to clarify their doctrine with others, I have had first hand experience with J4J. I could go on with numerous personal testimonies concerning this issue, but I will aslo back up my statements with quotes taken directly from the J4J website.

However, I will share a couple of experiences I've had with J4J before posting some quotes.
A little under a year ago, a friend of mine invited me to his congregation where a J4J speaker was doing an "outreach". After the service the guest speaker noticed I was wearing a Kippah and Tallit Katan. He felt it was his call to minister to me, so he came up and started an hour long discussion why the messiah came so that I don't have to follow the "old archaic laws of Moses" and can be free in J-sus.

Four or five years ago when I was looking into an internship with J4J in San Francisco. During a phone interview I asked if there were any Jewish congregations in Sanfran that I could attend, or if J4J was directly involved in a Messianic congregation that met specifically on Sabbath. I was told that J-sus rose on Sunday, so the J4J's held their church services on Sunday. If I was to receive the intern position I would be expected to be very involved in sunday services. Because the housing involved in the internship was communal housing with J4J I asked if they kept Kosher. They said no, but if I wanted to do so on my own I was allowed. But it was made evidently clear that Kosher was not kept within the J4J communal housing.

Finally, I have also spoken with Moshe Rosen (the founder of J4J) via email a few times. He has openly declared that he teaches Y'shua came so that we don't have to obey the Torah. If one chooses to do so, they may but only if done out of a respect for their Jewish heritage... one is not spiritually viable if they did it for spiritual reasons, as this was 'Judiazing'.

I haven't been to the J4J website in a couple of years, but specifically to bring something to the table here in this discussion I have copied and pasted a few quotes I found while browsing the site just now.

Taken directly from the J4J website:


Under the New Covenant, we all have a Holy Spirit-governed liberty and a God-sensitized conscience, whereby one believer might choose to accept more or less of a burden to follow certain holidays or customs than another. Those observances are purely subjective and voluntary, and never to be considered ways of gaining merit with God. The Holy Spirit gives us the liberty to maintain our heritage and culture so long as the traditions and observances do not obscure the gospel and we realize that the only way of salvation is through grace, by faith in the atoning work of Y'shua.




Many Jewish believers who choose to be observant to one degree or another recognize that The Law of Moses is no longer binding as such upon Israel.


======================================
Here's an interesting one where he takes multiple passages out of context:

Traditionally, Judaism has insisted that the Torah will never come to an end, despite the passage in Jeremiah.....

Before continuing in quoting this article, just let me state for the record that the passage in Jeremiah (31) is not a reference to the end of Torah, but rather the RENEWING of Torah.

...Yes, some of us might keep kosher, for example. But what of other parts of the Law?....

notice again, "some" keep kosher
The author then goes on to state that it is not viable to keep all of Torah, thus there is no requirement to adhere to the commandments of the Torah.

This logic has many trappings (such as, because we can't be perfect [keep torah in whole] does that give us the inherrent right to not try to obtain perfection?) , but I'm not here to discuss those issues in this thread.
===========================================

 


Quite simply, J4J do not teach Torah is for today.

Shalom,
Yafet.

[simchat_torah]

Talmud HaYarok,

I too have had similar experiences. I have met several J4J's and only one of them was Jewish by lineage. This man was the one that held an outreach in a local congregation. He emphatically went on to state that the Torah was no longer valid today and the mitzvot were "Bondage" and should be avoided like the plauge. he he he... yeah, he really was that outspoken on the issue.

Anyway, he was the only one that I have met that was born not only Jewish by bloodline but aslo tradionally raised. He told me that if I kept Kosher that I would go to hell because I was "rejecting what jesus has done for me on the cross."

Beyond this man I have met probably a dozen or so J4J's all whom were gentile by lineage.

I don't knock anyone for their lineage, it was just interesting to me that specifically the are called JEWS 4 J, yet very very very few within the organization are Jewish.

blessings,
Yafet.

[Talmid HaYarok]

Ack, I should be in bed by now.  :)

First I wanted to point out that its Talmid HaYarok, not Talmud. ;) Critical difference.

Anyways I don't consider J4J a Jewish group at all. The explicitly reject the Torah, everything Jewish, and seem to be almost borderline Marcionite at times.

In Israel I consider them a major problem because they're an irritant that cause a true anti-Messianic backlash. Its hard enough to get most Jews to even have an open discussion about Yeshua, these people are only making it worse IMO.

[simchat_torah]

eggzactly achi Talmid HaYarok...

sorry bout the mispelling of your name...  :sigh:

[vegan]

Simchat Torah - may I ask why there is a "Jesus Fish" next to your title ("Site Supporter?)"

[Pray4Isrel]

This is all very interesting... believe it or not, I know very little about JFJ. I am glad you could all share your experiences. I have heard their name in passing but never have been involved with them or researched them.

However, Bridges for Peace is a wonderful ministry and if you are interested, check out their website... they also publish a newspaper that contains news about Israel and other info. My family are supporters of them and I once almost signed up to volunteer there for a year (God had other things in mind, i.e. Russia).

Oh, and not to change the subject, but how do you feel about Friends of Israel and Zion's Fire? I have my own opinions but want to hear yours first.

[Pray4Isrel]

Today at 05:12 PM vegan said this in Post #20 (http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=673578#post673578)

Simchat Torah - may I ask why there is a "Jesus Fish" next to your title ("Site Supporter?)"




It's on everyone's title that's a site supporter.

[Talmid HaYarok]

I can also second Bridges for Peace. I tried to work with them in Israel, but they're very careful in the type of people they let volunteer for them. Which is a good thing. I just didn't have enough references on hand from Israel.

Friends of Israel and Zion's fire I'm not familiar with. I'm a member of Stand for Israel. Thats a political group for religious people, not really a religious group though.

[simchat_torah]

I too am unfamiliar with those ministries. I'll check them out on the web.

ah, yes... the fish is simply there if you have financially supported this site.
I won't make a big deal about it, but I feel that if upon further investigation, this site proves to be fruitful I will continue to support it.

[Pray4Isrel]

It will prove fruitful! ;)
God Bless, friend.

Anyone heard of Jimmy DeYoung Sr.? He and his wife are journalists in Israel. Also, he is a Bible Prophecy scholar.