just a question... [Archive] - Christian Forums

><>InHisName<><

15th July 2006, 10:39 AM

Steve Petersen

15th July 2006, 01:16 PM

And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph...Luke 3:23

Messiah in modern Judaism

Judaism today exhibits a wide variety of beliefs about Messiah ranging from outright disbelief in his existence to passionate affirmation of his speedy appearance. Among those who believe in the coming of Messiah exist the predominant notions that he will resurrect the dead, gather the exiles, rebuild the Temple, and subjugate the heathen nations. He will be the Davidic King par excellance. Thus in rabbinical literature this Messiah is frequently referred to as Mashiach ben David, or Messiah, son of David.

One of the reasons modern Judaism rejects Yeshua is because he did not fulfill the Davidic aspects of the messianic expectation.

The Other Messiah

But there is another Messiah mentioned in Jewish literature, one who is a dramatic contrast to the Son of David. This Messiah would reveal himself and gather disciples in the Upper Galilee (Hai Gaon, Responsum), would be pierced by Rome (Armilus; Sukkah 52a, Hai Gaon, Responsum), suffer and die for the sins of his people (Pesiqta Rabbatti 161a-b), would be mourned (Sukkah 52a), and ultimately be resurrected (Hai Gaon, Responsum). He is called Mashiach ben Yosef, Messiah, son of Joseph (also referred to as Ephraim who was the son of the patriarch Joseph.)

A touching dialogue between G-d and Messiah is found in Pesiqta Rabbati, a medieval midrash (legend or story). G-d is speaking to Messiah:

‘Their sins will be upon you like a yoke of iron. They will choke your spirit. Because of their sins, your tongue will cleave to the roof of your mouth. Do you accept this? If not, I will remove the decree from you .

The Messiah replies: Master of the worlds, how long will this last?

G-d replies: Ephraim, my true Messiah, ever since the six days of creation you have taken this ordeal upon yourself. At this moment, your pain is My pain.

Messiah replies: Master of the worlds, I accept this with gladness in my soul, and joy in my heart, so that not a single one of the house of Israel should perish. Not only for those alive, but also the dead. It is enough for the servant to be like the Master.’ 161a-b ‘In that hour, the Holy One, blessed be He, says to him: “Ephraim, my true Messiah you have already accepted [this suffering] from the six days of Creation. Now your suffering shall be like my suffering.” In that hour he says before Him: “Master of the World! Now my mind is at rest, for it is sufficient for the servant to be like his Master!’ 162a

Sephania

15th July 2006, 02:15 PM

Hi!
I've always had some questions about your faith now, but I haven't really found answers. Hopefully someone here can help!i've been taught that a lot of Jews didn't believe Jesus was the Messiah because they were expecting a great King/ Military Leader. Is that still true? And is Jesus considered a prophet in your religion? Have there been any prophets in the past 2000 years? Ones like Moses and Abraham who actually spoke with God?
I've always wanted to learn more about Judaism because my faith originated from Jews. Thank you so much!Shalom InHisname!:)

I am not sure if you have the right forum by your questions, but we are happy to answer.

We are Messianic here, which means there are some here that are Jewish and do believe that Yeshua/ Jesus was the promised Messiah to our people Israel. We believe as most Christians do that HE is the son of G-d as well as G-d. Yes, He was also a prophet ( and many non- Messianic Jews do believe this ) but we as Messianics believe so much more. :) He is He who was spoken of by all the prophets, especially Moses in the Torah, He was the one Moses Prophesied would come form amoung our own people to truley save us, Moses just showed the Shadow of the real to come. :)

According to our scriptures where we find most ( but not all our history of this time) we see that there were many that believed, Many Jews, when Yeshua/Jesus was here and then again , many after his death and resurection. It was those in the government that do not want to believe, ( but I think they knew) because it would expose how sinful they were, that is why they kept trying to accuse him of sin. There were even some in that governmental body who 'secretly' believed and I beleive there are some now. :)

But as Caiaphas( the High Priest of that day) said, it is better for the nation that one die than the whole nation perish ( because of insurection and Roman occupation).

He didn't even realize that he was being prophetic, as one, the Lamb of G-d had to die to save the nation: Israel.

Shalom :)

><>InHisName<><

15th July 2006, 04:24 PM

We are Messianic here, which means there are some here that are Jewish and do believe that Yeshua/ Jesus was the promised Messiah to our people Israel. We believe as most Christians do that HE is the son of G-d as well as G-d.

thansk for explaining that!! i never realized there was a sect of Judaism like that, very cool!! so do you consider yourself Christians too? if not, how are you different from Christians?

Sephania

15th July 2006, 07:05 PM

The main differences are:

1. We keep the seventh day Sabbath, from friday sundown to Saturday sundown
2. We celebrate the Holidays ( Holy Days) that the L-RD inacted in the Torah ( the first five books of bible, namely in Exodus and Leviticus)

That's about it in a nutshell!

:)

Messianic = Followers of Messiah is the Hebrew way of saying

Christian= followers of Christ

Instead of calling him Jesus Christ, we call Him, Yeshua HaMoschiah ( Yeshua the Messiah)

We call Him Yeshua, because that was His given Hebrew name and means Salvation.

:)