Question about Ablaze

[xkingsleyx]

I am an ELCA member and generally unfamiliar with the Ablaze! movement in the LCMS, but I am wondering if those of you who are LCMS could give me your thoughts on the campaign.

[C.F.W. Walther]

I am an ELCA member and generally unfamiliar with the Ablaze! movement in the LCMS, but I am wondering if those of you who are LCMS could give me your thoughts on the campaign.

Yea it's quantity instead of quality. Just like the reformed mega churches and I've seen what it's done to them. They are rampid with heresy because they bring people in with weak theology and emotions and soon you lose them because they are disallusioned becuse it's not what they thought and they have been fooled.

[C.F.W. Walther]

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[C.F.W. Walther]

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[C.F.W. Walther]

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[C.F.W. Walther]

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[C.F.W. Walther]

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[C.F.W. Walther]

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[C.F.W. Walther]

Well gee---how'd that happen?

[seajoy]

Well gee---how'd that happen?
I dunno, but I think you made your point :D !

[cubanito]

Yea it's quantity instead of quality. Just like the reformed mega churches and I've seen what it's done to them. They are rampid with heresy because they bring people in with weak theology and emotions and soon you lose them because they are disallusioned becuse it's not what they thought and they have been fooled.

Would you mind repeating that? I didn't quite catch it the first five times.

JR

[QuiltAngel]

My husband did a number crunching and if I am remembering right, found out that it comes out to each member talking to 4 people each year during the program. Ahm, shouldn't we be doing that anyway?

[C.F.W. Walther]

Would you mind repeating that? I didn't quite catch it the first five times.

JR


Hey :) Are you a James Kennedy parishoner? That guys right on.

[SPALATIN]

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[Breetai]

My husband did a number crunching and if I am remembering right, found out that it comes out to each member talking to 4 people each year during the program. Ahm, shouldn't we be doing that anyway?Quantity over quality, huh Radidio? If you look at it this way, that isn't the case. But, I suspect that not everyone does look at it that way, and I'm beginning to think that you're right on in your assessment.

Of course, I have no idea what was in the minds of the higher ups when they came up with all of this. The more I get involved with the LCMS, the more I see how lost some of the top levels really are. It seems to be a bit of a mess of bickering up there, with nobody really knowing what's going on. Kind of lick a city slicker trying to impose his laws on a bunch of rednecks. It just isn't pretty.

In the end, it's up to every individual Christian (opps, I mean every individual LCMS Lutheran! Sorry higher ups... :doh:) to decide how much quality goes into their witnessing. I can tell people what the gospel is all I want, but it can take years for it to really sink in and catch hold of some people... if it does at all. The mission field isn't a McDonalds drive-thru, as much as some 'city slickers' make it out to be.

[C.F.W. Walther]

In the end, it's up to every individual Christian (opps, I mean every individual LCMS Lutheran! Sorry higher ups... :doh:) to decide how much quality goes into their witnessing. I can tell people what the gospel is all I want, but it can take years for it to really sink in and catch hold of some people... if it does at all. The mission field isn't a McDonalds drive-thru, as much as some 'city slickers' make it out to be.

Amen brother. I've never expected anyone on this forum to agree with me but you have come the closest. We may never see the fruits of witnessing and all we can do is plant the seeds as it says in the Bible.

[tschenks]

I've downloaded the Ablaze documents and it's completely about reporting how many non-believers you've contacted and how they responded. It eventually gets tallied up on a website total to justify the expenditure of 100 million dollars over the next twelve years.

We're already expected to follow the Great Commission. I just don't get it.

[filosofer]

Amen brother. I've never expected anyone on this forum to agree with me but you have come the closest. We may never see the fruits of witnessing and all we can do is plant the seeds as it says in the Bible.

Ah, come on. I have agreed with you. :):wave:

In Christ's love,
filo

[Protoevangel]

Amen brother. I've never expected anyone on this forum to agree with me but you have come the closest. We may never see the fruits of witnessing and all we can do is plant the seeds as it says in the Bible.
What 'choo talkin' 'bout Rad? I've agreed with what you've said in this thread... Except for that James Kennedy comment, that is. ;)

[C.F.W. Walther]

Ah, come on. I have agreed with you. :):wave:

In Christ's love,
filo


You know how short us old peoples memory are. Yea you and Dan have agreeded----now I remember :)

Dan --- at least Kennedy is not Chick--ya gotta give me that :)

[Protoevangel]

Dan --- at least Kennedy is not Chick--ya gotta give me that :)
:thumbsup: I'll give ya that one! :D

[QuiltAngel]

I can tell people what the gospel is all I want, but it can take years for it to really sink in and catch hold of some people... if it does at all.


I have been on three short term mission trips, two since Ablaze began. While people have a chance to let us know if they agree and believe and confess Christ, many don't or at least not there at that time. We do know that each and every person has heard the message of our salvation through Jesus and it is our prayer that the seed that is planted grows.

To me, this whole thing does seem like it comes out of the church growth stuff. You know, where numbers are the important thing.

[ByzantineDixie]

I have been on three short term mission trips, two since Ablaze began. While people have a chance to let us know if they agree and believe and confess Christ, many don't or at least not there at that time. We do know that each and every person has heard the message of our salvation through Jesus and it is our prayer that the seed that is planted grows.

To me, this whole thing does seem like it comes out of the church growth stuff. You know, where numbers are the important thing.

Hi QuiltAngel, I am a former Lutheran and the kind folks at TCL let me hang out here...or more accurately...haven't got rid of me yet!

I am very interested in what an LCMS mission trip is like. Is it all focused on teaching the Gospel or is it anchored around doing some kind of help for the area (clean-up after the flood, building a structure, home repair, assisting at hospitals or orphanages and with this work bringing the Gospel. How is the Gospel brought? Through services and bible studies? Thanks for your first hand info!

[panama]

For all of the initial hoopla , Ablaze is pretty much a dead issue here. The big issue was one of reporting the numbers , tally sheets were issued and members urged to report names etc. So underwelming was the response (neither I nor anyone I know have bothered with the numbers) that the sheets are no longer issued. This may be an organizational and budgetary issue for CPTLN (Christ for All Nations , who run the program) but it is not one for the congregations.

Those people who are moved by Christ to evangelize , have and will do so without the program and those that don't , won't.

Off Topic: To Byzantine Dixie

I have been involved in several short term mission trips as the recipient. I'm just on a break now between 2 the last 2 weeks and two more upcoming. They come in many different types , usually lasting a week.
Building and maint. through CALMS
Pastor and lay training.
Crosscultural experience for seminary students.
Evangelization through personal witnessing - done through classes in English , music , sports or VBS type classes to the smaller children. We are also exploring the idea of handicap/elderly assistance.

Thomas

[QuiltAngel]

Hi QuiltAngel, I am very interested in what an LCMS mission trip is like. Is it all focused on teaching the Gospel or is it anchored around doing some kind of help for the area (clean-up after the flood, building a structure, home repair, assisting at hospitals or orphanages and with this work bringing the Gospel. How is the Gospel brought? Through services and bible studies? Thanks for your first hand info!


The ones I went on were organized by one of the RSO's. They are centered around some kind of help and done at the request of the missionaries in country. The ones I did tested eyes and one of the stations in the middle was where the people attending heard the Gospel message, usually given by the local pastors or Lutheran Hour Ministries people in the area. The idea is that the people are more receptive if people of their country talks with them and prays with them. The local pastors and missionaries follow up with the people attending.

This is kind of a brief summary of how it worked.