Is The U.S.A, Babylon?

[KathyJohnston]

Is The U.S.A, Babylon?

Rev 14:8 A second angel followed and said, "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries." Also in Rev 18 "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!
She has become a home for demons
and a haunt for every evil[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=18&version=31&context=chapter#fen-NIV-30980a)] spirit,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
3For all the nations have drunk
the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."




sagebrushmtn@shaw.ca

[Kelly]

At times I think so.

[PhantomTorment]

Other countries are much worse off than the United States.

[twistedsketch]

Babylon was a code word for Rome when John wrote Revelation. I personally believe there are enough key differences between the US and Rome that it is not referring to us.

[ronmathison]

Babylon was a code word for Rome

when John wrote Revelation.

I personally believe there are enough key differences between the US and Rome that it is not referring to us.





Yet,

I find,

Babylon is a great city:

"The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."

(and she's 'drunk' from the blood of the saints) ,

at the time of the (future) anti-Christ,

who will be 'vanquished',

with the second-coming of Jesus Himself.


.

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

Is The U.S.A, Babylon?



I do not think the USA is Babylon. I believe the Babylon from Revelations is Rome. But, I do think that some days the USA is becoming like Babylon. :sigh:

[prophecystudent]

As I understand Revelation regarding Babylon, there are actually two Babylons. One is the religious Babylon, the other is commercial, political, economic Babylon.

Rome is generally thought to be the headquarters of the religious Babylon (due in part to the prophecy regarding the 7 hills).

Two thoughts regarding economic/commercial Babylon, one school believes the original Babylon will be rebuilt (and Saddam was doing that). The other school tends to believe it will be the US.

I am not convinced it will be the US, and if it is, NYC would fill the bill. Both locations are, at this time, possible in my mind.

If one considers the incredible economic power the US possesses thru Wall Street, etc then it becomes possible. Also the prophecy regarding the ships lying offshore mourning the burning/destruction of "Babylon" NYC also fits the bill.

Couple that with the long, rapidly increasing, slide into apostasy and immorality on the part of the US and it seems even more reasonable.

Part of me wants to deny this idea simply because I hate to think our glorious, God fearing nation has been so corrupted.

In summary, I am pretty sure religious Bablyon will be Rome.

I am not sure about commercial/economic Babylon.

Fred

[Daniels]

Is Israel Heaven?

[GraceLikeRainFallsDown]

Is Israel Heaven?
I hope not. That would be very disappointing!

[twistedsketch]

Is Israel Heaven?
Heaven doesn't have nailbombs on buses. I don't know where you got that idea.

[Daniels]

JERUSALEM.

You know middle three letter si "USA", you see USA inside Jerusalem.

[KathyJohnston]

Perhaps a future U.S.A.,which persecutes Christians?







http://www.geocities.com/kathywitchjohnston

[Daniels]

Is German Sodom and Gomorroh?

[Godslilgurlalways]

JERUSALEM.

You know middle three letter si "USA", you see USA inside Jerusalem.

That's cool never paid attention to that:)

[SoundCard]

Right now we need to pay attention to things yes, but I think it'd be foolish to start panicking, as that'd be a distraction from living for God if we take too much time worrying, but like I said we should keep a look out for when the time comes, if we see it, we'll need to head for the hills as it says in revelations.

[prophecystudent]

Is German Sodom and Gomorroh ?

If you are asking if Germany is Sodom and Gomorrah, I would have to say no. Germany's moral condition does not even begin to resemble that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Nor is that of the US.

Having said that, the US and Germany are both headed down that slippery slope, at ever increasing speeds.

Fred

[ronmathison]

Prepare for

PERSECUTION ;

FAMINE ;

PESTILENCE.

[christandisrael]

It is the church which is built with human hands. God's church is a spiritual building. Anything that comes short of that is a false church.

[hiumble1]

Review:

· Daniel in the Old Testament

In the book of Daniel we read of a physical empire under the control of "Babylon". The Nation of Babylon had conquered God's chosen people, the Jews, and taken them captive in a very physical way.

· Revelation in the New Testament

In Revelation it is "spiritual Babylon" that has taken God's children captive.

· Rebuilding Babylon
The prophet Isaiah predicted the overthrow of Ancient Babylon (Isaiah 13:19-22) and God said "She will never be inhabited or lived in through all generations . . ."

then who?
Revelation 17
"One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, 'Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.' Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus. Revelation 17:1-6.


1. The purple, the scarlet color, and the gold reveal to us that Babylon is a power that has great wealth and great power.
2. That Babylon is "drunken with the blood of the saints" reveals another identifying mark of Babylon, Babylon is a cruel persecuting power.
3. Babylon has power over "the kings of the earth." This tells us that Babylon is an international church-state combination. The church uses governments to persecute those with whom she disagrees.
4. Babylon is considered "the mother of prostitutes," suggesting that this world power has "given birth” too many other churches that are like "their mother."
5. Immediately before the coming of Christ, many of God's children are in Babylon.


now... who can this be

[GustheMule]

Is The U.S.A, Babylon?

Rev 14:8 A second angel followed and said, "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries." Also in Rev 18 "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!
She has become a home for demons
and a haunt for every evil[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=18&version=31&context=chapter#fen-NIV-30980a)] spirit,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
3For all the nations have drunk
the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."




sagebrushmtn@shaw.ca
Nope. babylon has fallen. Christ defeateed the world system. We do see some of its ugly remains in the U.S. and around the planet. But Babylon has fallen, once and for always by the precious blood of Christ.

[ronmathison]

Nope. babylon has fallen. Christ defeateed the world system. We do see some of its ugly remains in the U.S. and around the planet. But Babylon has fallen, once and for always by the precious blood of Christ.

Sorry, does NOT compute.

The bible tells of God pummeling Babylon, with hailstones, that weigh 1 talent (aprox 100 lbs?) ,
and also of it/her being consumed by fire, in one hour.

(tbc)

[GustheMule]

Sorry, does NOT compute.

The bible tells of God pummeling Babylon, with hailstones, that weigh 1 talent (aprox 100 lbs?) ,
and also of it/her being consumed by fire, in one hour.

(tbc)
It also says Babylon has fallen (past tense) could we be dealing with Jewish imagery. The victory of Christ was decisive. Any language cannot do it justice.

[Rockbysea]

The USA certainly fits that description., nations are getting rich by selling her all their manufactured goods as she continues to mount up a trade deficit, she’s probably the number one debtor nation, her big cities are full of violent youth gangs, sexual perversion, gambling and violent mindless video games have saturated the minds of her people through the internet highways, her people are ravaged with disease such as obesity, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, and a host of other popular diseases of mind and body, as a result her people are all hooked on prescription drugs and dependent on the rich big drug companies who support the treatment of disease rather than the prevention, and push these drugs on them through advertisements on all forms of media, her land is trying to spew her people out of her mouth with all sorts of disastrous climate conditions, their economic strength is being sapped from her through wars and disaster relief, her economy is artificially sustained through foreign investment and on the brink of a major collapse should foreign investors decide to park their investments in another currency, She is confused with all her Christian religious factions that are filled with hypocrisy… ya… they certainly appear like Babylon.

[mont974x4]

Except, as someone else pointed out, there are worse (by far) places than the US. I'm not sure we could say the US is mentioned in the Bible, decisively, anywhere. We could sure speculate on a few places though couldn't we?

[Matheson]

Clearly, the U.S. , has exported 'scorceries' , throughout the world.

[Athanasian Creed]

Review:

· Daniel in the Old Testament

In the book of Daniel we read of a physical empire under the control of "Babylon". The Nation of Babylon had conquered God's chosen people, the Jews, and taken them captive in a very physical way.

· Revelation in the New Testament

In Revelation it is "spiritual Babylon" that has taken God's children captive.

· Rebuilding Babylon
The prophet Isaiah predicted the overthrow of Ancient Babylon (Isaiah 13:19-22) and God said "She will never be inhabited or lived in through all generations . . ."

then who?
Revelation 17
"One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, 'Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries.' Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. This title was written on her forehead: MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT THE MOTHER OF PROSTITUTES AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus. Revelation 17:1-6.


1. The purple, the scarlet color, and the gold reveal to us that Babylon is a power that has great wealth and great power.
2. That Babylon is "drunken with the blood of the saints" reveals another identifying mark of Babylon, Babylon is a cruel persecuting power.
3. Babylon has power over "the kings of the earth." This tells us that Babylon is an international church-state combination. The church uses governments to persecute those with whom she disagrees.
4. Babylon is considered "the mother of prostitutes," suggesting that this world power has "given birth” too many other churches that are like "their mother."
5. Immediately before the coming of Christ, many of God's children are in Babylon.


now... who can this be



Most commentary writers (and, i should add, those in the Reformation, both reformers and martyrs) believed this to be in reference to the Roman Church, Papal Rome!

But, i assume you were hinting such but were afraid to voice it. Not i - the truth is too precious and important to the salvation of captive souls to hide, despite the fact that SOME people refuse to see! ;)


Ray :wave:

[CrazyforYeshua]

Most commentary writers (and, i should add, those in the Reformation, both reformers and martyrs) believed this to be in reference to the Roman Church, Papal Rome!

But, i assume you were hinting such but were afraid to voice it. Not i - the truth is to precious and important to the salvation of captive souls to hide! ;)


Ray :wave:

:amen: :thumbsup:

[Gukkor]

Most commentary writers (and, i should add, those in the Reformation, both reformers and martyrs) believed this to be in reference to the Roman Church, Papal Rome!

But, i assume you were hinting such but were afraid to voice it. Not i - the truth is too precious and important to the salvation of captive souls to hide, despite the fact that SOME people refuse to see! ;)


Ray :wave:

Not refuse to see so much as just disagree with you. Of course, I suppose the two are one and the same in your mind, no?

[Grateful4God]

Ancient Babylon stood on the grounds that is now Iraq.

Its where the Zodiacs were the belief and Nimrod ruled and built the tower.

Makes you think..huh?

And to think Abrahams 3 sons are the ones that were to become the first bricks in the three biggest religions fighting today......I do believe Christ will be here soon

[Rockbysea]

Not refuse to see so much as just disagree with you. Of course, I suppose the two are one and the same in your mind, no?

:thumbsup:

[cardinalbunal]

It's Rome.

7 hills.

The harlot sitting on many waters, tongues and multitudes, see also that Daniel 7: 23 refers to Rome as it is now NOT being an empire ruling over one continent, but crushing the whole earth (in an ecclesiastical sense)

Before Rome was Greece, Medo-Persia and Ancient Babylon, now we have the MYSTERY Babylon, that is Rome.

No offense to Romish Cathololics but it says that beyond a doubt.

[Gukkor]

It's Rome.

7 hills.

The harlot sitting on many waters, tongues and multitudes, see also that Daniel 7: 23 refers to Rome as it is now NOT being an empire ruling over one continent, but crushing the whole earth (in an ecclesiastical sense)

Before Rome was Greece, Medo-Persia and Ancient Babylon, now we have the MYSTERY Babylon, that is Rome.

No offense to Romish Cathololics but it says that beyond a doubt.

What is true beyond doubt to you is false beyond doubt to them. One would be wise to simply state what one believes, making no claim of truth beyond that.

Also, if Catholicism is supposed to be in the business of crushing the whole Earth ecclesiastically, they're failing spectacularly at it.

[hiumble1]

keeping in mind that it needs to be mother of prostitutes...
All fall into apostate.
Ask anyone what they need to do to get to heaven (if they were to die tonight).... and you get all manner of beliefs, but mostly not the biblical truth. [repentance and faith].... ask them what sin is and most can't tell you... ask them to name the 10 commamndments and they can't (ask them to name 10 beers or 10 sports teams, no problem)... sure catholocism but it does not stop there, oh no.... it runs deep...
To truly destroy a man you must first make think you are not and give them lies.... it is everywhere....

[ps139]

It's Rome.

7 hills.

FYI: There indeed are 7 hills in Rome...

The Vatican - "headquarters" of the Catholic Church - is located on an 8th hill, across the river from Rome proper.

In case you did not know.....

[ronmathison]

It's Rome.

7 hills.

The harlot sitting on many waters, tongues and multitudes, see also that Daniel 7: 23 refers to Rome as it is now NOT being an empire ruling over one continent, but crushing the whole earth (in an ecclesiastical sense)

Before Rome was Greece, Medo-Persia and Ancient Babylon, now we have the MYSTERY Babylon, that is Rome.

No offense to Romish Cathololics but it says that beyond a doubt.


Ahh, BUT...

The Sea-Merchants,

became rich through her,

selling merchandise:


Revelation 18:9 (NASB) :
------------------------

Lament for Babylon

9"And (A (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31004A))the kings of the earth, who committed acts of immorality and (B (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31004B))lived sensuously with her, will (C (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31004C))weep and lament over her when they (D (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31004D))see the smoke of her burning,

10(E (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31005E))standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, '(F (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31005F))Woe, woe, (G (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31005G))the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in (H (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31005H))one hour your judgment has come.'
11"And the (I (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31006I))merchants of the earth (J (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31006J))weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargoes any more--
12cargoes of (K (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31007K))gold and silver and precious stones and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and every kind of citron wood and every article of ivory and every article made from very costly wood and bronze and iron and marble,
13and cinnamon and spice and incense and perfume and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and cargoes of horses and chariots and slaves and (L (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31008L))human lives.
14"The fruit you long for has gone from you, and all things that were luxurious and splendid have passed away from you and men will no longer find them.
15"The (M (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31010M))merchants of (N (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31010N))these things,

WHO BECAME RICH FROM HER,

will (O (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31010O))stand at a distance because of the fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,
16saying, '(P (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31011P))Woe, woe, (Q (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31011Q))the great city, she who (R (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31011R))was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls;
17for in (S (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31012S))one hour such great wealth has been laid (T (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31012T))waste!' And (U (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31012U))every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, (V (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31012V))stood at a distance,
18and were (W (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31013W))crying out as they (X (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31013X))saw the smoke of her burning, saying, '(Y (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31013Y))What city is like (Z (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31013Z))the great city?' 19"And they threw (AA (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31014AA))dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, '(AB (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31014AB))Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea (AC (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31014AC))became rich by her wealth, for in (AD (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31014AD))one hour she has been laid (AE (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31014AE))waste!'

(tHAT DOESN'T SOUND LIKE ROME, TO ME)

aLSO, sHE'S dESTROYED iN oNE hOUR, bY fIRE

(Possibly nuclear bomb?)

Also, She'll be targeted by the beast:

The 10 kings (at the time of the beast) who support him,

as WELL AS THE BEAST,

will destroy babylon:


12"The (AL (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30989AL))ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast (AM (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30989AM))for one hour.
13"These have (AN (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30990AN))one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast. Victory for the Lamb

14"These will wage (AO (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30991AO))war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will (AP (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30991AP))overcome them, because He is (AQ (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30991AQ))Lord of lords and (AR (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30991AR))King of kings, and (AS (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30991AS))those who are with Him are the (AT (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30991AT))called and chosen and faithful."
15And he said to me, "The (AU (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30992AU))waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are (AV (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30992AV))peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.
16"And the (AW (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30993AW))ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her (AX (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30993AX))desolate and (AY (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30993AY))naked, and will (AZ (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30993AZ))eat her flesh and will (BA (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30993BA))burn her up with fire.
17"For (BB (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30994BB))God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by (BC (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30994BC))having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the (BD (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30994BD))words of God will be fulfilled. 18"The woman whom you saw is (BE (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30995BE))the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth."

THIS HASN'T HAPPENED, YET.

PEOPLE HAVEN'T BEEN 'COMPELLED' YET,
TO RECEIVE THE MARK.

THE BEAST WILL BE VANQUISHED BY THE RETURN OF CHRIST.

[Gukkor]

Ahh, BUT...

The Sea-Merchants,

became rich through her,

selling merchandise:


Revelation 18:9 (NASB) :
------------------------

Lament for Babylon

9"And (A (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31004A))the kings of the earth, who committed acts of immorality and (B (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31004B))lived sensuously with her, will (C (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31004C))weep and lament over her when they (D (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31004D))see the smoke of her burning,

10(E (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31005E))standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, '(F (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31005F))Woe, woe, (G (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31005G))the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in (H (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31005H))one hour your judgment has come.'
11"And the (I (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31006I))merchants of the earth (J (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31006J))weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargoes any more--
12cargoes of (K (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31007K))gold and silver and precious stones and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and every kind of citron wood and every article of ivory and every article made from very costly wood and bronze and iron and marble,
13and cinnamon and spice and incense and perfume and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and cargoes of horses and chariots and slaves and (L (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31008L))human lives.
14"The fruit you long for has gone from you, and all things that were luxurious and splendid have passed away from you and men will no longer find them.
15"The (M (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31010M))merchants of (N (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31010N))these things, who became rich from her, will (O (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31010O))stand at a distance because of the fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,
16saying, '(P (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31011P))Woe, woe, (Q (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31011Q))the great city, she who (R (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31011R))was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls;
17for in (S (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31012S))one hour such great wealth has been laid (T (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31012T))waste!' And (U (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31012U))every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, (V (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31012V))stood at a distance,
18and were (W (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31013W))crying out as they (X (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31013X))saw the smoke of her burning, saying, '(Y (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31013Y))What city is like (Z (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31013Z))the great city?' 19"And they threw (AA (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31014AA))dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, '(AB (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31014AB))Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea (AC (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31014AC))became rich by her wealth, for in (AD (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31014AD))one hour she has been laid (AE (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%2018:9-113;&version=49;#cen-NASB-31014AE))waste!'

Right, and last time I checked, Rome engages in extensive overseas trade. The Vatican, as far as I know, doesn't.

[ronmathison]

The 10 kings (at the time of the beast) who support him,

as WELL AS THE BEAST,

will destroy babylon:


12"The (AL (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30989AL))ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast (AM (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30989AM))for one hour.
13"These have (AN (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30990AN))one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast. Victory for the Lamb

14"These will wage (AO (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30991AO))war against the Lamb, and the Lamb will (AP (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30991AP))overcome them, because He is (AQ (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30991AQ))Lord of lords and (AR (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30991AR))King of kings, and (AS (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30991AS))those who are with Him are the (AT (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30991AT))called and chosen and faithful."
15And he said to me, "The (AU (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30992AU))waters which you saw where the harlot sits, are (AV (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30992AV))peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues.
16"And the (AW (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30993AW))ten horns which you saw, and the beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her (AX (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30993AX))desolate and (AY (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30993AY))naked, and will (AZ (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30993AZ))eat her flesh and will (BA (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30993BA))burn her up with fire.
17"For (BB (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30994BB))God has put it in their hearts to execute His purpose by (BC (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30994BC))having a common purpose, and by giving their kingdom to the beast, until the (BD (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30994BD))words of God will be fulfilled. 18"The woman whom you saw is (BE (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=revelation%2017;&version=49;#cen-NASB-30995BE))the great city, which reigns over the kings of the earth."

THIS HASN'T HAPPENED, YET.

PEOPLE HAVEN'T BEEN 'COMPELLED' YET,
TO RECEIVE THE MARK.

THE BEAST WILL BE VANQUISHED BY THE RETURN OF CHRIST.

[IrishGuy070890]

Other countries are much worse off than the United States.

You really think so? American Christians are the least commited, most selfish Christians in the whole world. Christians in other countries will die for their beliefs, and yet they still believe. they tell others about it. America supposedely more christians than any other country, but if Christians here had to suffer for our beliefs, our numbers would become a fraction of what they are now. The U.S.A is better off than any country.

My 2 Cents

[Grateful4God]

You really think so? American Christians are the least commited, most selfish Christians in the whole world. Christians in other countries will die for their beliefs, and yet they still believe. they tell others about it. America supposedely more christians than any other country, but if Christians here had to suffer for our beliefs, our numbers would become a fraction of what they are now. The U.S.A is better off than any country.

My 2 Cents

I laugh at statements like this. We are one of the few countries that have 100% volenteer armed forces, a lot of which are Christians fighting for freedom. We have missionaries all over the world spreading the word of god in troubled areas. Including Sudan, Panama, Israel, Turkey, Afganistan, South Africa, and many many more countries. Lots of Christians from America around the world spreading the word and bringing people closer to god. Many of which are risking their lives to do gods work. Please give them proper respect and not make statements like this.

In most(I did not say all) other countries, Christianity is fading. Infact religion as a whole is becoming obsolete in most cultures.

Just because we do not have Christians getting slaughtered here by another faith, does not mean we are weak. Maybe, just maybe it means we are blessed?

To say "American Christians are the least commited" is almost laughable.. Would a large percentage crumble when their faith was tested in such a horrible way? Yes. Would we still have one of the highest numbers of faithful Christians living here? Yes.

[Mattacious]

Is The U.S.A, Babylon?

Rev 14:8 A second angel followed and said, "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries." Also in Rev 18 "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!
She has become a home for demons
and a haunt for every evil[a (http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=18&version=31&context=chapter#fen-NIV-30980a)] spirit,
a haunt for every unclean and detestable bird.
3For all the nations have drunk
the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."




sagebrushmtn@shaw.ca

It would make sense.

[ronmathison]

We are one of the few countries that have 100% volenteer armed forces




Perhaps that's because of: BLOOD-THIRTINESS.


(Voilence was one of the main reasons for God sending the flood.)

[Grateful4God]

I view Babylon as the Islam nations middle east. Killing Christians and Jews, holding their own people hostage in starvation and torturous activities. Terroisim and greed. I do not think the Islams themselves are evil, but their rulers definetly are.

Ancient Babylon used to exist over Iraq and the surrounding Islam nations of today. I beleive Babylon, is still Babylon. They are nations who wll not except the true creator. Yet the world sleeps with them and supports them by purchasing their natural resources and continueing to support these evil ungodly leaders.

America is many things, evil is not one of them. We do have major issues. I do not deny that. We do thrive on greed and have unholy rulers as well. I also believe we do a lot of good to the world.

[ronmathison]

Yet...

America 'exports' it's 'sorceries' ,

throughout the world,

and might perhaps one-day,

EXECUTE CHRISTIANS EN-MASS.

[Grateful4God]

Romathison, we can go back and forth about who the true evil really is. Instead lets just go and pray that both America and the Islam nations get filled with the spirit and open their hearts to the true word of god :)

[Gukkor]

Perhaps that's because of: BLOOD-THIRTINESS.


(Violence was one of the main reasons for God sending the flood.)

Is that what foreigners really think of us? That we're so filled with bloodlust that our men and women volunteer to give years of their lives to military service with the express intent of getting to kill people? If valor and a desire to protect one's country (and I'm making no statement either way about whether the military's actions as a whole are wrong, I'm speaking on an individual level) are misunderstood as bloodlust in Canada, for example, I weep for those of its citizens who would dare love their nation enough to risk their lives in its defense. They'd probably be denounced by their own people and declared to be bloodthirsty killers.:sigh:

[Rockbysea]

I don't think the Book of Revelation has been revealed yet, for sure not to me.

One thing that is safe to say is that God is Spirit, and many of the things that are written in that book describe spiritual occurrences, which we may easily mistake for physical occurrences.

[ronmathison]

If valor and a desire to protect one's country (and I'm making no statement either way about whether the military's actions as a whole are wrong, I'm speaking on an individual level) are misunderstood as bloodlust in Canada, for example, I weep for those of its citizens who would dare love their nation enough to risk their lives in its defense. They'd probably be denounced by their own people and declared to be bloodthirsty killers.:sigh:



You didn't mention the raping, and pillaging, that happens.

[bill16652]

edited because am pentecostal and therefore not allowed to post here, sorry

[Gukkor]

You didn't mention the raping, and pillaging, that happens.

Yes, it does happen, but that hardly means that the entire U.S. military participates in such evil. Honestly, do you realize just how many hundreds of thousands of people you're judging to be bloodthirsty rapists and pillagers, people you know nothing of other than two incidental statements of fact (U.S. citizenship and military involvement)? Does the fact that there is crime in Canada make all Canadians criminals? By your apparent thought process, yes.

[ronmathison]

We are one of the few countries that have 100% volenteer armed forces





Rev 6:3 (NASB):
---------------

The Second Seal--War

3When He broke the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, "Come."

4And another, a red horse, went out; and to him who sat on it, it was granted to take peace from the earth, and that men would slay one another; and a great sword was given to him.