What do you think of Speaking in Tongues??

[MattyJames]

....I am talking about the "Charismatic Version" of a Heavenly language, that can only be understood by God and the Angels. I've been to Church Services where they all start "Speaking in Tongues" and to be honest I was really, really, really uncomfortable. :scratch: :eek:

I've also come across a few Messianics lately that believe in this form of Heavenly Prayer Language. I was surprised cause I was under the impression that it was kinda not accepted.

So now that you know what I think, what do the rest of you say??

Thanks,

MattyJames

[Bon]

....I am talking about the "Charismatic Version" of a Heavenly language, that can only be understood by God and the Angels. I've been to Church Services where they all start "Speaking in Tongues" and to be honest I was really, really, really uncomfortable. :scratch: :eek:

I've also come across a few Messianics lately that believe in this form of Heavenly Prayer Language. I was surprised cause I was under the impression that it was kinda not accepted.

So now that you know what I think, what do the rest of you say??

Thanks,

MattyJames

When the disciples spoke at Pentacost, they were speaking in OTHER tongues.

Acts 2:3 And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. 4 And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. 6 And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. 7And they were amazed and astonished, saying, "Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? 8 And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? 9 Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, 10 Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, 11 both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians--we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God." 12 And all were amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, "What does this mean?"

1 Corinthians 14:5
Now I want you all to speak in tongues, but even more to prophesy. The one who prophesies is greater than the one who speaks in tongues, unless someone interprets, so that the church may be built up.

I say most today try too hard....It seems forced and not particularly spirit driven.

Bon

[Andyman_1970]

Isn't the "heavenly prayer language" Paul refers to the Kedusha?

[plum]

i grew up in a charismatic environment (majority Catholic, but also a lot of protestants) where the charisms were used, but it was always clearly taught that they were for the benefit of the congregation and the Body. so if there was a prophesy, it was done in front of the entire congregation. Now tongues... that community I was in believed in what is sometimes called a "personal prayer language" where the Spirit uses your mouth to say things inexpressible by your own tongue (perhaps if you don't know how to pray or what to pray). My mother and her husband still practice and believe this is true. I have never been given such a gift *shrug* so i cannot speak for it.

I wasn't taught they were for salvation, but I was taught that all believers could have it when baptised by the Holy Spirit (separate from water baptism).

my personal belief now is that the sign of tongues does exist today, but it is as Bon said, "other tongues", other languages. one member on this forum posted an examination of this gift on another website and i totally agree... let me see if i can find it...

If you examine every, let me repeat that, EVERY passage in the New Testament you will discover a few things. Tongues was primarily a sign gift, as in Jesus' admonition against the religious leaders of the day that their adulterous generations sought only after "signs". The sign gifts were like the miracle of Jesus, they were meant to authenticate that the message and ministry of Jesus was of G-d.

In the cases where the use of Tongues is spoken about, the one thing that they all have in common is the there were unbelieving Jews present, and the occurrence of tongues was a sign to them that what was going on was authenticated by G-d. On the day of Pentecost in Acts the Holy Spirit came down and settled on those in the upper room in a form that looked like tongues of fire. Those present received the Holy Spirit and began speaking in other tongues.

Why tongues of Fire? First it was a fulfillment of John the Baptist's words about the Holy Spirit baptizing with Fire. Tongues symbolize speech and the communication of the gospel. Fire symbolizes G-d's purifying presence, which burns away the undesirable elements of our lives. On Mount Sinai, G-d confirmed the validity of the Old Testament Law with fire from heaven. At Pentecost, G-d confirmed the validity of the Holy Spirit's ministry by sending fire. At Mount Sinai, fire came down at one place; at Pentecost, fire came down on many believers, symbolizing that G-d's presence is now available to all who believe in Him.

The coming of the Holy Spirit was accompanied with a noise like a mighty rushing wind and the sound drew men from all over Jerusalem seeking to discover what happened. When the crowd gathered where the disciples were speaking in tongues, Acts 2:6 says: "...they were bewildered because each of them was hearing them speak in his own language." Verse 11 tells us that what they were hearing was praise of G-d, "speaking of the mighty deeds of G-d."

Now the question arises, "what was the miracle or "sign" gift that bewildered the hearers? Verse 7 They were amazed and astonished, saying, "Why, are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we each hear them in out own language to which we were born?...we hear them in our own tongues speaking of the mighty deeds of G-d."

The gift of tongues had to do with languages. Since we are instructed that tongues should not be used in church unless there is an interpreter present, it appears that the gift or ability appeared one of two ways. First, the speaker had a G-d given ability to speak in a language that he had never learned before. Remember, that there was no such thing as the Berlitz school of languages at the time. The Jews in Israel for the most part spoke only Aramaic. Very few had the money or time to get a formal education. Koine Greek was the trade language of the Roman empire so many spoke a smattering of Greek. Paul was an educated man, and acting as the messenger of G-d to the Gentiles he had a need to be able to communicate in many languages. In 1 Corinthians 14:18 we read, " I thank G-d, I speak in tongues more than you all; however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue." G-d granted unto Paul an ability to speak with many languages because of his specific ministry. But he emphasizes that just speaking in another language that had not been learned is nothing great if there, is no accompanying understanding.

On Pentecost, there were Jews from all over the empire making their appearence for the yearly sacrifice and feast. They each were hearing what the disciples were saying in their own native language and dialects. Perceiving that the disciples were uneducated men from Galilee, they knew the impossibility of the disciples being able to speak a wide variety of languages like they were natives of each of those lands. The way the text is worded it appears that what is being said is the one disciple would be speaking the praises of the mighty works of G-d in tongues, and each individual hearer was hearing what that one disciple was saying in their own native language. So a second manifestation of tongues was not so much in the speaking, but rather in the hearing. For example, you could be speaking in Aramaic, but I would hear you in English, but someone else with me would hear the same thing, but understand it in German or Hoté Malé or whatever their native language is.

The next occurence of tongues is found in Acts 10 where Peter has been commanded to go and meet with the Roman Centurion Cornelius. G-d first had to set the stage for Peter by sending the vision of the sheet filled with all manner of animal life and is told to "Rise, kill and eat" Peter refuses claiming that he had never broken the kosher dietary restrictions. Three times the Lord has to tell Peter not to call unclean what He has declared to be clean. While he is contemplating what this vision means, Peter hears the Lord speak telling him that Cornelius' servants are looking for him, and that Peter is to arise and go with them "doubring nothing; for I have sent them. When Cornelius' servants arrive Peter travels to Caesarea with them to the house of Cornelius. After hearing Cornelius relate how the Lord had spoken to him, giving him instruction to send for Peter, and telling him where Peter may be found, Peter says, "Of a truth I perceive that G-d is no respecter of persons." Peter opens the Word of G-d to Cornelius and his household and while Peter is still speaking the "holy Spirit fell on all them who heard the Word. And they of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Spirit. For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify G-d. Then answered Peter, Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, who have received he Holy Spirit as well as we?

So what do we have here with this second manifestation of tongues. Peter, a Jew who doesn't believe that the Gospel should go to the Gentiles is given a vision from the Lord and instructed not to call unclean that which the Lord has called clean. While thinking about the vision, the Lord speaks to Peter again telling him that 3 men have come for him and that he is to go with them, doubting nothing, because the Lord had sent them. After hearing Cornelius' story of how the Lord had instructed him to send for Peter, it finally sinks in to Peter that he is to emulate the Lord and not be a respecter of persons.

Even as he is sharing the gospel the Holy Spirit falls on all who in Cornelius' household hear the message and the Holy Spirit falls upon them, indicating their salvation and reception of the Holy Spirit by a manifestation of tongues to convince the Jews who are there and observing that this indeed is the will and act of G-d the Father. Peter asks who can deny them water baptism seeing that they have received the Holy Spirit just as we did? Again tongues used as a sign for disbelieving Jews.

Next in Acts 19 Paul encounters certain disciples in Ephesus and asks them if they have received the Holy Spirit since they believed? They respond that they hadn''t even heard the there was a Holy Spirit. Upon inquiring further Paul learns that they had repented and been baptized in accordance with the teaching they had received from John the Baptist. Paul explains to these Jews that John did indeed baptize unto repentance saying that they should believe in the one who was to come after John, that is Jesus Christ. When they heard this message of the gospel they believed and were baptized in the name of Jesus. As Paul lays hands on them, they receive the gift of the Holy Spirit, manifested by an occurance of tongues as a sign that the message Paul brought was from G-d. Again a sign to Jewish believers that the message is from G-d.

In 1 Corinthians chapters 12-14 Paul is teaching concerning Spiritual gifts in general while also dealing with yet another dispute among these worldly believers who still managed to manifest a full supply of spiritual gifts. Showing that the charismata are not associated with Spiritual maturity, merely Spiritual indwelling is sufficient.


Paul starts out in 1 Corinthians 12 explaining that unlike their experience as pagans with being lead astray by the many varied idols they encountered there is but one Holy Spirit. From that one Holy Spirit there is a diversity of gifts that are given to the local church. Each of these spiritual gifts is given, to be used in the church to edify the body. Paul stresses in verse 7, "But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. In other words they are given to be used for everyone's good in the local body. Verse 11 "But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills."

It is the Holy Spirit who determines which believer gets which gifts. Extrapolating from what Paul says next it appears that just like he had to deal with the Corinthian believers earlier that it didn't matter under whose ministry a believer came to the Lord, he now had to intervene in an argument as to which spiritual gifts were better. Apparently the Corinthians were coveting all the gifts, and not all were happy with their gift, thinking perhaps that because their gift was "not as important" in their own view as someone else's gift, they had been short-shrift when the gifts were given. They all wanted what they thought were the most important gifts. From What Paul writes the gifts that were most coveted were: Apostleship, prophecy, teaching, miracles, gifts of healings, tongues and interpretation of tongues.

In 1 Corinthians 13, the great Love chapter, Paul tries to show them the type of attitude they should have toward gifts. If I do not have "love" it profits me nothing. Paul is trying to teach the Corinthian believers that it doesn't matter what your Spiritual gift is, if your not using that gift out of "Love" for the brethren, the gift is a waste. As he is emphasizing how much more important acting out of true "Love" is Paul includes a bit of information that has been greatly discussed since the time that this was written. Paul writes in verse 8 "Love never fails; but if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away. For we know in part and we prophesy in part;but when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away."

There has been a great deal of debate over this passage, even on the Forum here. What is that which is perfect? There are a number of good arguments that can be made that what Paul, through the direction of the Holy Spirit, is speaking of as "the perfect" is the canon of the New Testament. We have to remember that this was written approximately 55 AD. Right around twenty years after the death and resurrection of our Lord. Not everyone could read and write, and there weren't pocket New Testaments available for believers to carry around and read at their leisure. Once there was an "official New Testament", and I do realize that they didn't know at the time that the Canon of official books or epistles would be called the New Testament, there would no longer be the urgent need for the "sign" gifts to authenticate the message and the messenger.

In Chapter 14 comes the passages that have caused all the commotion over the gift of tongues in the church today:

14:2 "For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to G-d; for no one understands, but in his Spirit he speaks mysteries.

14:4 "One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church."

14:5 "Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying.

14:6 "But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of teaching?"

14:9 "So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air. 10 There are, perhaps, a great many kinds of languages in the world, and no kind is without meaning. 11 If then I do not know the meaning of the language, I will be to the one who speaks a barbarian, and the one who speaks will be a barbarian to me."

14:14 "For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.15 What is the outcome then? I will pray with the spirit and I will with the mind also; I will sing with the spirit and I will sing with the mind also.

14:18 "I thank G-d, I speak in tongues more than you all; 19 however, in the church I desire to speak five words with my mind so that I may instruct others also, rather than ten thousand words in a tongue."

14:22 "So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe. 23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted men or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

What can we take from the teaching on tongues that Paul gives in 1 Corinthians 12 - 14? First, the greater gifts are those that are more beneficial to the Body of Christ. Paul clearly states that one gift is not superior to any other, we are to find out what our spiritual gift/s are and use them. Our gifts are not for our own sefl-advancement. Secondly, the spiritual gifts are to be used with a true sense of agape (self-sacrificing) love. It means setting aside our own desires and instincts and working for the greater good of the Body of Christ as a whole. That entails building up, strengthening and serving our brothers and sister in Christ.

Third, it is obvious that the spiritual gift of tongues was being abused in Corinth. It had become a source of disorder in the worship services. Others were using it as a sign of spiritual superiority in stead of a means of spiritual unity. Paul says that one who speaks in an unknown(to the hearers) tongue is speaking only to G-d, for no one else understands. By comparison, Paul says that prophecy(speaking forth the Word of G-d) is more to be desired because it will edify the hearers. Unless there is an interpreter present to explain what the person speaking in a tongue is saying it not only isn't edifying to the church, it brings confusion. Paul gives specific insruction that tongues not be allowed unless there is an interpreter present. But each of these instances of tongues is still speaking in a language that had not been learned by the speaker. In some cases, it is obvious that the speaker doesn't even understand what they are saying, why else would Paul instruct that they pray that they might be able to interpret (14:13)what they have spoken in another language. Paul says in the next verse that the reason for this is because if someone is even praying in a language unknown to them, their spirit may be praying, but for them their mind is unfruitful

There is a place in Christianity for intellect. Our faith is suppossed to be based in knowledge. Knowledge of Jesus and His sacrifice, knowledge of Jesus and His person is the definition of eternal life. Our mind and spirit are to be united with our emotions in our worship and praise of G-d. This is also true of our prayers. When we are pouring out our hearts to G-d in prayer we aren't supposed to shut off our minds and allow emotion to run wild. John wrote of his Gospel, "...but these things are written that you MIGHT KNOW. He closes his first epistle with these words, vs 18 "WE KNOW that no one who is born of G-d sins;" vs 19 "W KNOW that we are of G-d, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one." vs 20 "And WE KNOW that the Son of G-d has come, and has given us UNDERSTANDING sothe WE MAY KNOW Him who is true; and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ. This is the True G-d and eternal life.

Christian faith is not about a "blind step" and hoping there is something out there to catch us, it is KNOWING, logically utilizing our minds.

In the rest of 1 Corinthians 14 as Paul closes his teaching about the gift of tongues we read, vs 22 "So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers;but prophecy is for a sign, not to unbelievers but to those who believe. vs 23 Therefore if the whole church assembles together and all speak in tongues, and ungifted or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are mad?

The manifestation of tongues was as stated previously a sign for unbelievers to authenticate that the message and messenger were from G-d. An unknown tongue unless there is an interpreter present is nothing but a distraction and brings disorder to a worship service.

Further, consider this observation from Lehman Strauss concerning the only time Jesus referred to tongues: When our Lord predicted the gift of tongues (the only mention of tongues in the four Gospel records) He said, “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name they shall cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues” (Mark 16:17). The adjective “new” (Gr. kainos) can only mean they were go-ing to speak in languages new to them, that is, languages they had not learned or used until that time. If I say the Russian language is “new” to me, I do not mean that I never knew there was such a language, but rather its use by me is new to me because I can neither speak it nor understand it when I hear others speak it. On the other hand the German language is not altogether “new” to me because I can both read and speak it with a small degree of understanding.

[MattyJames]

Eirene....perfect Post...nothing that I can add...as of yet anyhow. I agree totally.

MJ

[Steve Petersen]

According to some Jewish source, the heavenly language is Hebrew (one opinion) or Aramaic (another opinion) not meaningless jibberish like the Greed oracle of Delphi practiced. (Sounded like a dog barking?)

[plum]

Eirene....perfect Post...nothing that I can add...as of yet anyhow. I agree totally.

MJ
dmckay put it so well.

[plum]

According to some Jewish source, the heavenly language is Hebrew (one opinion) or Aramaic (another opinion) not meaningless jibberish like the Greed oracle of Delphi practiced. (Sounded like a dog barking?)
that last part reminds me of the "toronto blessing"
TACF articles on this (http://www.tacf.org/tacforghome/Whoweare/revival/RevivalsAwakeningsandMisrepresentations/tabid/146/Default.aspx)
wiki entry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_blessing)

when i was in about 7th grade (summer 1995 probably) i was on a mission trip to Kentucky. I was with a group of presbyterians. we had a wednesday night preayer meeting that turned into events very similar to the toronto blessing (people being slain in the spirit, tongues, 'holy laughter'). i experienced this laughing phenomenon along with another girl Katie. Now here's the thing... neither of us knew about holy laughter before this happened. i was one of the few people (including all the adults) who had had previous experience in a charismatic setting of any kind (presbyterians are not known for being at all charismatic lol). i think it caused more chaos in the end than anything else. yes, it was powerful. i do think the Spirit did work that night. However, one of my friends saw a demon and became opressed by him for the next month. no one knew how to cast our demons in faith. we didn't even believe her for a while because it was so freakishly out-there. The demon told and showed her very frightening visions... one of hell opening in the ground and all of her family and friends in there being tormented and burned by fire. he told her secrets, the future. he said he knew how many children we would all have and she told us all that he said or threatened to do to her. I am still trying to forget what he told her about me. I pray that memory will be washed away.

and this all started happening at the same time as this 'toronto blessing' activity. talk about confusing a bunch of 13 year olds! it still gives me shivers. and i have never figured any of it out.

i have other stories, but this whole topic is one of such... confusion.

[Wags]

The whole "slain in the spriit" "holy laughter" etc... I've seen it in person, except we called it what it really was - demon possession. In the case of demon possesion, once those persons were baptized the behavior stopped, and a great peace came upon them. But when I see these preachers on TV baptise the behaviors actually increase and they try to claim it is the work of the Holy Spirit. Its the work of a spirit all right but I don't think there is anything remotely holy about it!

Do I believe that the Spirit of G-d can cause people to speak in tongues. Yes! I've witnessed when that has happened - but it happened like it did at Shavout. People were speaking in their native language, and others were hearing the message in their own mother tongue.

[Andyman_1970]

According to some Jewish source, the heavenly language is Hebrew (one opinion) or Aramaic (another opinion) not meaningless jibberish like the Greed oracle of Delphi practiced. (Sounded like a dog barking?)

Isn't it refered to as the Kedusha?

[plum]

The whole "slain in the spriit" "holy laughter" etc... I've seen it in person, except we called it what it really was - demon possession. In the case of demon possesion, once those persons were baptized the behavior stopped, and a great peace came upon them. But when I see these preachers on TV baptise the behaviors actually increase and they try to claim it is the work of the Holy Spirit. Its the work of a spirit all right but I don't think there is anything remotely holy about it!

Do I believe that the Spirit of G-d can cause people to speak in tongues. Yes! I've witnessed when that has happened - but it happened like it did at Shavout. People were speaking in their native language, and others were hearing the message in their own mother tongue.
i will not take personally the idea or assumption that i was posessed when i was laughing that night. *shrug* it is a story that G-d has not made clear in my life just yet. Much to learn and gain. :)

i do not think believers can be posessed. the Spirit already dwells within them. I dont' think a demon can fill that space as well.

but i admit right now I don't have Scripture to back that claim up :)

[jgonz]

I'll step out on a limb here and admit that I speak in tongues. My personal belief is that there are Unknown tongues (like a personal prayer language) and Known tongues in Scripture. I also believe that Unknown tongues are to be interpreted if you speak them aloud in front of others. If there is No interpreter, you should Not speak them in public (or even in a service). (So those preachers on tv, or any church, congregation, or whatever, are in error in that area.)

The laughter movement, barking, etc. is/was off, IMO. I'm sure that G-d can use anything to minister to His people, (Eirene's experience would fall into this catagory), however the Vast majority of this stuff is flesh, or flat out demonic.

[MattyJames]

The whole "slain in the spriit" "holy laughter" etc... I've seen it in person, except we called it what it really was - demon possession. In the case of demon possesion, once those persons were baptized the behavior stopped, and a great peace came upon them. But when I see these preachers on TV baptise the behaviors actually increase and they try to claim it is the work of the Holy Spirit. Its the work of a spirit all right but I don't think there is anything remotely holy about it!

Do I believe that the Spirit of G-d can cause people to speak in tongues. Yes! I've witnessed when that has happened - but it happened like it did at Shavout. People were speaking in their native language, and others were hearing the message in their own mother tongue.

I agree Wags. My family was involved in a Pro-Active Penticostal Church for about 3 years and my parents were close to the Ministry. In this time we saw many versions of this supposed "Heavenly Language", all supposedly validated on one scripture 'THough I speak with the tongue of men and of angels...." 1 Corinth 13:1.

After questioning the interpretation with my beloved Father (earthly), he directed me to Rev 21:17 ... "according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.", and although it neither is totally convincing, it does suggest that this idea of there definately being two seperate tongues/ Languages is rather flawed or at the least pure speculation. Certainly unable to have a doctrine established around it.

Another thought...The fact that at the Time of Shavot (Acts 2) there were men from many other "Worldly" nations ie: not heavenly, but they heard them in their own worldly language. To be clear, the "tongues" heard were clearly languages of this World, not of heaven. And for the convincing of men on earth, not of angels.

The other main application of Tongues relevance was Pauls directions as given in 1 Corith 14. Noting that every thing was to be done in order ( at most two...not the whole church as is often the case today) and to be interpreted. This must also mean that there had to have been prior knowledge that a man was to be speaking in Tongues and that an interpreter was present. Otherwise he was to keep silent lest he be deemed a barbarian (not a spirit filled believer).

1Co 14:11 Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.

Also...the fact that Messiahs prayers to the Father were both heard and understood to be in a known tongue also rules out this Idea that there is this "higher Heavenly Language" that is more beneficial to pray in. And not Messiah only, but many of the Prophets and Apolstle alike.

Lastly, Pauls admonition

1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.
1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

Now you all know even better what my thoughts are...:)

Thanks all for your replys and experiences thus far.

[Sephania]

My husband was given the gift of tounges this very past Shavuot, but sense there seems to be the general concensus here that it is not of G-d I will not elaborate.

[SpiritPsalmist]

I speak in tongues and if in a service someone gives a message in tongues I can interpret it as well. When praying, just me and God I find that I'm greatly incouraged and lifted up when I speak with God in the heavenly language....just like 1 Cor 14 spells out. It does not matter to me what other people who do not operate in that gift think...I know and God knows.

[SpiritPsalmist]

i will not take personally the idea or assumption that i was posessed when i was laughing that night. *shrug* it is a story that G-d has not made clear in my life just yet. Much to learn and gain. :)

i do not think believers can be posessed. the Spirit already dwells within them. I dont' think a demon can fill that space as well.

but i admit right now I don't have Scripture to back that claim up :)

Yes, you do have a scriptrue...the parable in which Yeshua said, "if you ask for bread a good father will not give you a stone". Also, "He has not given you a spirit of fear but of power, love, and a sound mind". When we are praying to God He does not sent devils to enter us. He sends His Holy Spirt to indwell in us and when we "don't know what to say He (Holy Spirit) makes intercession for us with groanings that cannot be understood"

Now you have 3 scriptures. :)

[SpiritPsalmist]

....I am talking about the "Charismatic Version" of a Heavenly language, that can only be understood by God and the Angels. I've been to Church Services where they all start "Speaking in Tongues" and to be honest I was really, really, really uncomfortable. :scratch: :eek:

I've also come across a few Messianics lately that believe in this form of Heavenly Prayer Language. I was surprised cause I was under the impression that it was kinda not accepted.

So now that you know what I think, what do the rest of you say??

Thanks,

MattyJames

I think that just because something makes us uncomfortable does not meant that "it's" bad. The first time I encourage Messianic Judaism I was uncomforable. I've learned though that when I'm uncomfortable with what is going on in my surroundings I ask the Lord what He's wanting me to understand. It may not be a total acceptance of the particular surrounding you were in in your uncomfortableness yet they may be facets of it that God is wanting to bring into your life.

I grew up in the Penticostal (wild type) environment. I'm not uncomfortable with it when I'm around it yet God has led me in a different lot less wild way. I've been part of the Messianic movement for about 3 years now I think and have heard the tongues in operation. Not quite the same way as what I grew up with but the same thing.

If people don't want to accept this gifting from the Lord that is their choice they don't have but we should not unfairly judge (not that you are) those who do. God is faithfull to each of His children and wherever we may get off kilter (and we ALL do somewhere) as long as we keep our eyes on Him and don't get caught up with His giftings over Him He will lead us in the way that we should go. :)

[SpiritPsalmist]

I've known of services where a person spoke in tongues and no one interpreted it. Everyone thought that the person was out of order but at the end of the services visitors came forward and wanted to speak to the person who had given a message in their language. While no one else in the service understood they did.

I also have a friend who, after coming awake from being under anesthetic was approached by the nurse asking how long he had spoken Hebrew. He told her he did not not know Hebrew. She told him that during the surgery he was speaking in jibberish the whole time...however, the surgeon, who was Jewish, understood every word. My friend was proclaiming the gospel of Yeshua to the Jewish the whole time he was under anesthetic and being operated on.

[SpiritPsalmist]

I'll step out on a limb here and admit that I speak in tongues. My personal belief is that there are Unknown tongues (like a personal prayer language) and Known tongues in Scripture. I also believe that Unknown tongues are to be interpreted if you speak them aloud in front of others. If there is No interpreter, you should Not speak them in public (or even in a service). (So those preachers on tv, or any church, congregation, or whatever, are in error in that area.)

The laughter movement, barking, etc. is/was off, IMO. I'm sure that G-d can use anything to minister to His people, (Eirene's experience would fall into this catagory), however the Vast majority of this stuff is flesh, or flat out demonic.

I don't believe that everything that happened with the laughter was perfect. However I saw many a changed life through it...mine included. I actually had it happen only once to me and I was alone in my room talking with God. Scripture says, "laughter doeth good like a medicine" I can't speak for everyone envolved in that but I personally witnessed a lot of inner healing that resulted in outer healing in peoples lives. The people I knew were radically changed and set on fire for God.

[Kej]

I personally think the majority of what the 'church' calls speaking in tongues in hogwash. I've even known people to "chat in tongues" on the internet :doh:
That being said, I agree with the others here who mentioned the miracle of Pentecost and that G-d can cause people to speak in other languages that are not their own, but is understood by someone else in the congregation. Always, though, to edify the body in some way.
The whole 'Brownsville Movement' years ago was just.....icky.

[MattyJames]

I personally think the majority of what the 'church' calls speaking in tongues in hogwash. I've even known people to "chat in tongues" on the internet :doh:
That being said, I agree with the others here who mentioned the miracle of Pentecost and that G-d can cause people to speak in other languages that are not their own, but is understood by someone else in the congregation. Always, though, to edify the body in some way.
The whole 'Brownsville Movement' years ago was just.....icky.

Yes Kej I agree. Chat in tongues on the net :scratch: . What the :eek: .

Quaffer thanks for your posts, but I need to clarify. When I say I was uncomfortable, it was like walking into a New Age Chant. There is a difference between Challenging and uncomfortable. I was deeply stressed in the spirit. If I had the power I'd have started casting out strong holds and demons right there and then...thats what I mean when I said uncomfortable.

Sure it is a personal thing...difficult to support commen tongues theory by scripture alone.

MJ