[open]"...keeping Torah will be its own reward for me..."

[Wags]

Do you know who said that?

And if you know, why do you think he said it?

[visionary]

Psalm 19:11
Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.close to what you are saying... so my guess is David.

[Wags]

close to what you are saying... so my guess is David.

Very good! :thumbsup:

Pslams 119:33 Teach me, ADONAI, the way of your laws; keeping them will be its own reward for me.


Perhaps I should change the question to ask - what rewards do you receive from keeping Torah?

[SpiritPsalmist]

We're blessed when we come in and we're blessed when we go out. (Deut 28:6)

[debi b]

Perhaps I should change the question to ask - what rewards do you receive from keeping Torah?
[/SIZE][/FONT]

Blessed are the undefiled in the way,
Who walk in the Torah of YHVH!
Blessed are those who keep His testimonies,
Who seek Him with the whole heart!

:bow:

[insaneinthebrain]

Slightly off topic, but whenever I hear the Torah described as a "horrible burden that Messiah did away with," I often wonder if that person has read Psalm 119.

[stone]

14 "When you have entered the land ADONAI your God is giving you, have taken possession of it and are living there, you may say, 'I want to have a king over me, like all the other nations around me.' 15 In that event, you must appoint as king the one whom ADONAI your God will choose. He must be one of your kinsmen, this king you appoint over you - you are forbidden to appoint a foreigner over you who is not your kinsman. 16 However, he is not to acquire many horses for himself or have the people return to Egypt to obtain more horses, inasmuch as ADONAI told you never to go back that way again. 17 Likewise, he is not to acquire many wives for himself, so that his heart will not turn away; and he is not to acquire excessive quantities of silver and gold. 18 "When he has come to occupy the throne of his kingdom, he is to write a copy of this Torah for himself in a scroll, from the one the cohanim and L'vi'im use. 19 It is to remain with him, and he is to read in it every day, as long as he lives; so that he will learn to fear ADONAI his God and keep all the words of this Torah and these laws and obey them; 20 so that he will not think he is better than his kinsmen; and so that he will not turn aside either to the right or to the left from the mitzvah. In this way he will prolong his own reign and that of his children in Isra'el.
***

In this context it benefits a king and his reign and his children.

[plum]

well if it was a reward-based faith then I'd be stuck in the same rut as a lot of believers I've met who focus so much on "what Heaven will be like" and how they'll "fly away" from the world that they miss the real now that is going on while they wait for something better. If the reward was the goal, then wouldn't legalism be the best way to get it?

but since we struggle against that mentality...

the rewards in my life so far are these:
understanding, clarity of thought, closeness, renewal, discovery, and love.

[Wags]

Slightly off topic, but whenever I hear the Torah described as a "horrible burden that Messiah did away with," I often wonder if that person has read Psalm 119.

I frequently wonder the same thing!

Psalm 119 is pretty strongly pro torah, and has some pretty harsh words for those that don't keep torah - inlcuding saying that salvation is far from them.

118 You reject all who stray from your decrees, for their deceitfulness is in vain.

155 Salvation is far from the wicked, for they do not seek out your decrees.

[Wags]

well if it was a reward-based faith then I'd be stuck in the same rut as a lot of believers I've met who focus so much on "what Heaven will be like" and how they'll "fly away" from the world that they miss the real now that is going on while they wait for something better. If the reward was the goal, then wouldn't legalism be the best way to get it?

but since we struggle against that mentality...

the rewards in my life so far are these:
understanding, clarity of thought, closeness, renewal, discovery, and love.

The reward for following the instructions of God are frequently mentioned through out scripture and Yeshua himself talked of the rewards for those that are faithful.

I do think that it is possible to focus too much on the great here after, but I don't think it is wrong to count the blessings/rewards that are ours here on this earth either.

[Catherineanne]

Do you know who said that?

And if you know, why do you think he said it?

I am totally unqualified to comment on this, so forbearance requested. :wave:

My Minister friend told me last week that in discussion with a Rabbi he was told that to consider the Torah a series of laws, and the Jewish people as being under law, is a misinterpretation. The Torah is not a series of laws, but a way of life; not a burden, but a privilege.

If this is correct, and I apologise if it is not, because I do not want to tell anyone here what they believe, then I can appreciate why a way of life which involves walking closely with the Deity is its own reward.

Imo, such a life does not need the carrot of eternal reward, nor the stick of eternal punishment, any more than sharing time with a friend needs the bonus of a dinner party or a cup of tea. They are nice, and all very well, but even sitting on a park bench in the rain with a good friend is enough.

Peace be with you. :wave:

[Wags]

I am totally unqualified to comment on this, so forbearance requested. :wave:

My Minister friend told me last week that in discussion with a Rabbi he was told that to consider the Torah a series of laws, and the Jewish people as being under law, is a misinterpretation. The Torah is not a series of laws, but a way of life; not a burden, but a privilege.

If this is correct, and I apologise if it is not, because I do not want to tell anyone here what they believe, then I can appreciate why a way of life which involves walking closely with the Deity is its own reward.

Imo, such a life does not need the carrot of eternal reward, nor the stick of eternal punishment, any more than sharing time with a friend needs the bonus of a dinner party or a cup of tea. They are nice, and all very well, but even sitting on a park bench in the rain with a good friend is enough.

Peace be with you. :wave:

Torah can best be desribed as instructions - divine instructions on how to live a life pleasing to God. And it is true that it is not a burden. Yeshua (Jessus) himself said that it was not a burden and that those that kept and taught it would be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

[debi b]

Yeshua said my burden is light, my yoke is easy. We have to think about that in comparison to what? I think in comparison to a forever without Him. In that light what He asks (following Him - His way) is easy. Problem is there are so many ideas about what that means. Bought with a price in this life pretty much means I don't get to do what I think. Somethin about being a servant....

Tuff, but not so tuff with that comparison.

[Henaynei]

D'Varim 28
1 "If you listen closely to what AD-NAI your G-d says, observing and obeying all his mitzvot which I am giving you today, AD-NAI your G-d will raise you high above all the nations on earth; 2 and all the following blessings will be yours in abundance -if you will do what AD-NAI your God says:

15 "But if you refuse to pay attention to what AD-NAI your G-d says, and do not observe and obey all his mitzvot and regulations which I am giving you today, then all the following curses will be yours in abundance:

you get abundance either way ;)


have you noiticed?.....in my opinion we so many times are willing to accept the blessings and reject the responsibility .... just like society at large - "gimme but don't require anything from me" :cry:

it seems to me that just like in secular law - if we expect the blessings we must be willing to accept the responsibilities and accept the recompense of our choices (*! YES we've been redeemed from the eternal debt to the law (hallelujah!), but not from the temporal ones - if I murder or steal or..... I still have a consequence that I must accept)

[armyman_83]

Shalom.

I was wondering if any of yall had any good websites or resources for those who want to follow Torah, but are new to following Torah.

I am trying to move into Torah in baby steps, mainly because I do not know much about Torah. I know about the Kosher laws for the most part, but I would like to know about the other parts. I am but 17 (and raised Protestant), so it is a little hard to follow Torah easily. Any help would be great!

Shalom

[jgonz]

what rewards do you receive from keeping Torah?

I felt like I was losing my mind... not connected to anything... 25+ yrs of being saved and felt like I was totally missing something.... Then a good friend of mine suggested that I start reading the Torah portions. I felt grounded and stable for the first time in over a year! Torah is the Foundation for everything. Being all spiritual with no foundation... I tended to fly off into the unknown... Torah has given me the "sound mind" that I couldn't seem to keep before. :bow:

[Wags]

Shalom.

I was wondering if any of yall had any good websites or resources for those who want to follow Torah, but are new to following Torah.

I am trying to move into Torah in baby steps, mainly because I do not know much about Torah. I know about the Kosher laws for the most part, but I would like to know about the other parts. I am but 17 (and raised Protestant), so it is a little hard to follow Torah easily. Any help would be great!

Shalom


I will give you links to two of my favorites - enough material there to keep you busy reading for quite awhile.:)

First Fruits of Zion (http://ffoz.org/Home/) is an educational ministry dedicated to proclaiming the Torah and its way of life, fully centered on Messiah, to today's people of God.

Torah Resource.com (http://www.torahresource.com/) - Resources and eLearning for Torah communities.

[visionary]

I felt like I was losing my mind... not connected to anything... 25+ yrs of being saved and felt like I was totally missing something.... Then a good friend of mine suggested that I start reading the Torah portions. I felt grounded and stable for the first time in over a year! Torah is the Foundation for everything. Being all spiritual with no foundation... I tended to fly off into the unknown... Torah has given me the "sound mind" that I couldn't seem to keep before. :bow:Amen.... not carried away by every wind of doctrine, solid advise on how to handle every situation, with physical, spirual, mental, and emotional benefits to boot.

[chunkofcoal]

well if it was a reward-based faith then I'd be stuck in the same rut as a lot of believers I've met who focus so much on "what Heaven will be like" and how they'll "fly away" from the world that they miss the real now that is going on while they wait for something better. If the reward was the goal, then wouldn't legalism be the best way to get it?

but since we struggle against that mentality...

the rewards in my life so far are these:
understanding, clarity of thought, closeness, renewal, discovery, and love.

I think some may think of God as being off some place. I think I might've had the same kind of attitude and then I read this:
Deu 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

The idea that one could "cleave unto" God gave me a new perspective. It's like it makes God here and now, not far away. There is an answer to this question:

Jer 23:23 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?
:bow:

[stone]

I think some may think of God as being off some place. I think I might've had the same kind of attitude and then I read this:
Deu 30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD swore unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

The idea that one could "cleave unto" God gave me a new perspective. It's like it makes God here and now, not far away. There is an answer to this question:

Jer 23:23 Am I a God at hand, saith the LORD, and not a God afar off?
:bow:

yep, he is here with us and my learning to do what he likes for us to do, which is in the torah, makes both of us happy.

Rewards could be as simple as makeing lanes clear of oncomeing traffic so that when the clown that pulled out in front of me this morning attempting to total my vehicle would find me driveing along next to him in the lane that opposite traffic is to drive on. ahh.. the look on his face- lol didn't spill one drop of coffee. :thumbsup:

hows that for a reward?

[armyman_83]

I will give you links to two of my favorites - enough material there to keep you busy reading for quite awhile.:)

First Fruits of Zion (http://ffoz.org/Home/) is an educational ministry dedicated to proclaiming the Torah and its way of life, fully centered on Messiah, to today's people of God.

Torah Resource.com (http://www.torahresource.com/) - Resources and eLearning for Torah communities.

Thank you.