I have dream (denominational Mix)

[SilentPreacher]

I have dream (denominational Mix)

I have dream... a dream that each and every member of each and every Christian Denomination ignore each other's denominational differences and recognize that we all have the same Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I have a dream that each and every denomination will recognize that we are all members of His Body, and as such we need each other; we need the Pentecostals and Charisma for we all need to be filled with the Holy Spirit; we all need Methodism, a method of worship; we all need Baptists, for we all need to be baptized in the holy name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost; we all need Catholicism for we all need a government ruled by God and with His Son... Himself has the Pope; we all need the Eastern Orthodox for we all need to remember the old ways and our history to understand our heritage and our rootal connection with God's people of Abraham... the circimcised. But first and most importantly, we must look in our hearts and check our Faith. We must ask ourselves: who are we following; John Wesley, John the Baptist, Mary, the Saints, or Jesus Christ?

...and we all need the right theology

[RayJGentry]

...and we all need the right theology

i think that's the problem denominations run into. i think any responsible christian doesn't follow any man that their denomination may have been founded by or named after, but rather agrees with that persons theology and image of God. that's why your dream will probably never happen. there are pieces of theology that some people (regardless of denomination) see as having the correct interpretation of God's intent. so obviously our interest is going to be to help others see things how we do. i don't think, when it really comes down to it, that most christians feel much ill will towards other denominations. it does seem to come across much harsher in areas like this forum, where it's an area we can discuss and sometimes argue about our differences. this isn't the face most christians put on in public.

but the utopia you dream of i think would be counter productive. if all the denominations decided to just live and let live and put harmony before honest and open discussion, it would create stagnant faith. rather than us question each other and calling on each other to test what and why we believe things, we'd just smile and let things go. besides, i don't think Christ would approve of His Church giving up honest, if sometimes heated dialogue, for the sake of unity. He called us to be open, honest and convicted regarding the Word. conviction does not lead to smiling and letting things go.

[Edial]

I have dream (denominational Mix)

I have dream... a dream that each and every member of each and every Christian Denomination ignore each other's denominational differences and recognize that we all have the same Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I have a dream that each and every denomination will recognize that we are all members of His Body, and as such we need each other; we need the Pentecostals and Charisma for we all need to be filled with the Holy Spirit; we all need Methodism, a method of worship; we all need Baptists, for we all need to be baptized in the holy name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost; we all need Catholicism for we all need a government ruled by God and with His Son... Himself has the Pope; we all need the Eastern Orthodox for we all need to remember the old ways and our history to understand our heritage and our rootal connection with God's people of Abraham... the circimcised. But first and most importantly, we must look in our hearts and check our Faith. We must ask ourselves: who are we following; John Wesley, John the Baptist, Mary, the Saints, or Jesus Christ?

...and we all need the right theologyI agree with your intent, but not the specifics.
What you listed are not the strong points of each denomination, but what separates them from the others.

Unification of separations is ecumenism.
And ecumenism does not see contradictions. And in that case, truth suffers. :)

The solutions that I might have is that each denomination contains some truth in their very differences.

Each difference that divides actually has some truth that unites.

Once that truth is established and embraced, then the wrongs that are dividing will fall off as chaff and the different aspects to the same truth will remain.

What is needed for that?
A mind that is capable to love the truth whenever it sees it. A heart that is capable to discern.

Truth in itself is quite attractive. :)

Just some thoughts ... there is much more to say on this. :)

Thanks,
Ed

[SilentPreacher]

Oh, i wrote that becuase this section read as Theologia Crucis...

You are right when it comes to conservatives versus te fundamentalists concerning sex orientation or Luther versus the Roman Catholic Church concerning the way of salvation and the use or misuses of indulgances....
In fact, that would be the purpose of unity.

Other than that, there are certian Christian Denominations who are not distingushed by differences in theology but rather what aspects of Christianity they emphasis the m ost... like for example, Baptists believe in charisma as well as the Pentecostals do (though i've never heard them use the term), though they place greater emphasis or importance in water baptism.
[quote]i think that's the problem denominations run into.[quote]

[C.F.W. Walther]

It'll never happen. THe devil has too much time invested in making dissention.........thus denominations.

Plus our pride won't allow it because we allways want to be right. The devil likes that to :)

Oh----BTW---the devil is real for all those Lutherans that wern't sure :)

[SilentPreacher]

Excellent Idea! Like a jigsaw puzzle... ZI hope I vspelled right

[LutherNut]

...and we all need the right theology

This is where the Lutherans come in. ;) :amen:

[SilentPreacher]

This is where the Lutherans come in. ;) :amen:

Exactly... we need Lutherans to help other denominations to correct certain mistakes in certain theologies... you guys may be the key to, finally, one united body.

[Melethiel]

While it's an admirable dream, it won't happen until Christ comes back. Human pride always gets in the way. Maybe I'm just old and cynical ( ;) ), but the world starts to look different after a while...

[SPALATIN]

I have dream (denominational Mix)

I have dream... a dream that each and every member of each and every Christian Denomination ignore each other's denominational differences and recognize that we all have the same Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I have a dream that each and every denomination will recognize that we are all members of His Body, and as such we need each other; we need the Pentecostals and Charisma for we all need to be filled with the Holy Spirit; we all need Methodism, a method of worship; we all need Baptists, for we all need to be baptized in the holy name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost; we all need Catholicism for we all need a government ruled by God and with His Son... Himself has the Pope; we all need the Eastern Orthodox for we all need to remember the old ways and our history to understand our heritage and our rootal connection with God's people of Abraham... the circimcised. But first and most importantly, we must look in our hearts and check our Faith. We must ask ourselves: who are we following; John Wesley, John the Baptist, Mary, the Saints, or Jesus Christ?

...and we all need the right theology

Hmmm Lutherans are conspicuously absent from your list. Maybe it is because we already have the correct doctrine and understanding of Justification that the others don't have. Otherwise I am in agreement with the others who have posted prior to me. It will not happen because the denominational differences we have matter too much. When you and the rest of the Christian denominations begin to believe that Christ is present in the Body and Blood and not just a symbolic presence but a real presence then we can begin to talk.

:eek:

[Edial]

Hmmm Lutherans are conspicuously absent from your list. Maybe it is because we already have the correct doctrine and understanding of Justification that the others don't have. Otherwise I am in agreement with the others who have posted prior to me. It will not happen because the denominational differences we have matter too much. When you and the rest of the Christian denominations begin to believe that Christ is present in the Body and Blood and not just a symbolic presence but a real presence then we can begin to talk.

:eek:
If we are saying that we got it right on all things, we are not much different from the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholics who claim the same. :)

And if that is the case, the dream of the poster is just a dream. :)
But on the serious side, the prayer of Jesus in John 17 should never be a "dream".

Thanks,
Ed

[SPALATIN]

If we are saying that we got it right on all things, we are not much different from the Eastern Orthodox and the Roman Catholics who claim the same. :)

And if that is the case, the dream of the poster is just a dream. :)
But on the serious side, the prayer of Jesus in John 17 should never be a "dream".

Thanks,
Ed

Which is precisely the reason we will never unite as the OP writer would like us to. Lutherans do believe that they are the only one properly parsing the Word of God. We don't agree with the EO nor the Roman Catholics. Need I say anything of American Evangelicals. We just have to say "see you in heaven" and trust that God will get us all there eventually.

[SilentPreacher]

I guess that's all that matters... at least we're all of Christ... See ya in Heaven

[Edial]

Which is precisely the reason we will never unite as the OP writer would like us to. Lutherans do believe that they are the only one properly parsing the Word of God. We don't agree with the EO nor the Roman Catholics. Need I say anything of American Evangelicals. We just have to say "see you in heaven" and trust that God will get us all there eventually.
There will be no unity if ecumenism is applied. Ecumenism accepts untruths together with thruths.
And that is nonesense by design.

Yet there must be unity.
And a state of mind that we are correct and they are not is purely RC and EO, since that is what they openly say.
American Evangelists do not say that, that is why I did not bring them up.

If we say that concerning the truth - we are on the same boat as the RC and EO and are in disobedience to Christ's prayer of John 17.

When we are stating in BOC and websites that we have the truth, it is as compared to the RC.

Much Reformation developed since then.

To say that we are completely right, is silly at the best and arrogant at the worst, since the Bible plainly states that we know only in part. :)

Christ's prayer in John 17 to be one as "we are one" eliminates Ecumentism and introduces a unity of churches in a common understanding that not one denomination is completely correct about all it teaches.
And when I am saying "correct" I am not presenting that it is "incorrect", but that it is incomplete.

That is really elementary, regardless of what others might feel.

Thanks,
Ed

[DaRev]

It is best to say that confessional Lutheranism is the closest we can get to the truth of God's word as it has been handed down to us.

[LilLamb219]

It is best to say that confessional Lutheranism is the closest we can get to the truth of God's word as it has been handed down to us.

Yep, yep, yep! That's what I believe and that's what I always say :)

[Edial]

It is best to say that confessional Lutheranism is the closest we can get to the truth of God's word as it has been handed down to us.
Yes, that would be a better definition.

But do you think that some denominations might be better then us in some of the understanding of certain parts of the Bible?

Thanks,
Ed

[SPALATIN]

There will be no unity if ecumenism is applied. Ecumenism accepts untruths together with thruths.
And that is nonesense by design.

Yet there must be unity.
And a state of mind that we are correct and they are not is purely RC and EO, since that is what they openly say.
American Evangelists do not say that, that is why I did not bring them up.

If we say that concerning the truth - we are on the same boat as the RC and EO and are in disobedience to Christ's prayer of John 17.

When we are stating in BOC and websites that we have the truth, it is as compared to the RC.

Much Reformation developed since then.

To say that we are completely right, is silly at the best and arrogant at the worst, since the Bible plainly states that we know only in part. :)

Christ's prayer in John 17 to be one as "we are one" eliminates Ecumentism and introduces a unity of churches in a common understanding that not one denomination is completely correct about all it teaches.
And when I am saying "correct" I am not presenting that it is "incorrect", but that it is incomplete.

That is really elementary, regardless of what others might feel.

Thanks,
Ed

Ed,
The Word comes from the Greek word Oikomene and in English is translated as Ecumenism. Wikipedia gives the definition of Ecumenism. Christian ecumenism is the promotion of unity or cooperation between distinct religious groups or denominations of the Christian religion. Ecumenism in this sense is distinguished from interfaith pluralism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_pluralism).

Ecumenical is similar and for the most part means the same. For me unity is not important in our life here on earth. Should we strive for it, I suppose, but will it make a difference? I will not compromise my faith just for the sake of Unity. If the other denominations want unity with me and my church then they will have to compromise what they believe about Baptism and the Lord's Supper. I will not go against conscience which Luther said is dangerous to do.

[C.F.W. Walther]

It is best to say that confessional Lutheranism is the closest we can get to the truth of God's word as it has been handed down to us.


:thumbsup: :amen: :thumbsup: :amen:

[Edial]

Ed,
The Word comes from the Greek word Oikomene and in English is translated as Ecumenism. Wikipedia gives the definition of Ecumenism. Christian ecumenism is the promotion of unity or cooperation between distinct religious groups or denominations of the Christian religion. Ecumenism in this sense is distinguished from interfaith pluralism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_pluralism).

Ecumenical is similar and for the most part means the same. For me unity is not important in our life here on earth. Should we strive for it, I suppose, but will it make a difference? I will not compromise my faith just for the sake of Unity. If the other denominations want unity with me and my church then they will have to compromise what they believe about Baptism and the Lord's Supper. I will not go against conscience which Luther said is dangerous to do.

Striving towards unity is a state of mind, an attitude, a matter of a disposition.
One must have that in order to even approach the topic.
The prayer of Jesus Christ concerning this cannot be objectively obeyed - impossible.
However, it can be subjectively received in humility concerning his prayer of being "one".

Once this is done God will work through by honing out the dividing differences and instead making them into unifying identities.

But if the attitude is not there, then obedience is far away, since the obedience to God is based on love.

I understand what you are saying and agree.
Conscience should not be betrayed.
But I am also saying that the conscience is not always true.
And God hones it too and one changes.

Thanks,
Ed

[C.F.W. Walther]

Striving towards unity is a state of mind, an attitude, a matter of a disposition.
One must have that in order to even approach the topic.
The prayer of Jesus Christ concerning this cannot be objectively obeyed - impossible.
However, it can be subjectively received in humility concerning his prayer of being "one".

Once this is done God will work through by honing out the dividing differences and instead making them into unifying identities.

But if the attitude is not there, then obedience is far away, since the obedience to God is based on love.

I understand what you are saying and agree.
Conscience should not be betrayed.
But I am also saying that the conscience is not always true.
And God hones it too and one changes.

Thanks,
Ed

Well Ed it's a nice idea whose time hasn't come. We actually seem to be getting further and further away from ecumenism or unity otherwise why would we have more new denoms every year. Even within our LCMS there is a sense of seperation as with ELCA and others.

I have to agree with you on conscience. Some definitions of conscience seem too confining. One person's conscience is not anothers. Point if fact is inner city murders. Perps have no remorse or feelings about it being right or wrong.......just necessary. Many have no idea of what right or wrong is so hence no conscience.

I think we have been affected to much by our egosentrice pride and will never be able to come to any concensus with any other denoms....or they with us because of the same reason.


:scratch:

[SilentPreacher]

Okey, new denominations? This is interesting. Name them.

[RayJGentry]

i think the denominations need to strive for unity in our love of Christ. we are all ultimately brothers, even if we disagree on things. people should see us as unified groups striving to follow the Gospel and Teachings of Christ.

we should however continue the discussions between denominations and keep each other accountable. i think that denominations will always exist, because we all see different parts of God's Word a little differently and our beliefs differ, even if we do agree on the big things about God's and Christ's identity and the fundamental Truths.

[KagomeShuko]

many people have this dream - that people can put aside the fact that theologies differ (as they can still consider them "bad theologies") and that God's grace transcends all denominations.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

[Edial]

Well Ed it's a nice idea whose time hasn't come. We actually seem to be getting further and further away from ecumenism or unity otherwise why would we have more new denoms every year. Even within our LCMS there is a sense of seperation as with ELCA and others.

I have to agree with you on conscience. Some definitions of conscience seem too confining. One person's conscience is not anothers. Point if fact is inner city murders. Perps have no remorse or feelings about it being right or wrong.......just necessary. Many have no idea of what right or wrong is so hence no conscience.

I think we have been affected to much by our egosentrice pride and will never be able to come to any concensus with any other denoms....or they with us because of the same reason.


:scratch:
I agree with all that you said.

But I am not certain concerning it being not on the right time.

Doing good or obeying has no wrong time. :)

It is just peoples' consciences sometimes are honed to accept and approve disobedience.
We often strain the gnat and swallow the camel. :)

Thanks,
Ed

[Edial]

i think the denominations need to strive for unity in our love of Christ. we are all ultimately brothers, even if we disagree on things. people should see us as unified groups striving to follow the Gospel and Teachings of Christ.

we should however continue the discussions between denominations and keep each other accountable. i think that denominations will always exist, because we all see different parts of God's Word a little differently and our beliefs differ, even if we do agree on the big things about God's and Christ's identity and the fundamental Truths.
Too much plain old fashioned hate and/or self-righteousness and/or arrogance.

Oh, but it is always stated that it is "their" theology that they hate and not a "brother".:)

As if a theology does not make a man.

Thanks,
Ed