Help me out

[IowaLutheran]

This is not a debate post - just a question to help me understand what is going on in my favorite Church that my Church is in full communion with!

I'm having a hard time understanding why there is such an uproar now about ECUSA; women have been bishops since 1988.

If women bishops were a reason to kick someone out of the Communion, wouldn't that have happened 18 years ago? I obviously understand the difference in rank between Presiding Bishop and a diocesan bishop, but as of 1988, it seems to me that it would have been fairly obvious that this would happen some day.

[gtsecc]

This is not a debate post - just a question to help me understand what is going on in my favorite Church that my Church is in full communion with!

I'm having a hard time understanding why there is such an uproar now about ECUSA; women have been bishops since 1988.

If women bishops were a reason to kick someone out of the Communion, wouldn't that have happened 18 years ago? I obviously understand the difference in rank between Presiding Bishop and a diocesan bishop, but as of 1988, it seems to me that it would have been fairly obvious that this would happen some day.
Technically, it is no big deal because PB has no real power.

In reality, it shows ECUSA is not going to change course and head for orthodoxy.

[karen freeinchristman]

It is mainly because of her stance WRT the consecration of Bishop Gene Robinson.

[SirTimothy]

Well, the CofE voted recently to allow women bishops, so I can't imagine they'll kick 'em out of the communion...

[karen freeinchristman]

Well, the CofE voted recently to allow women bishops..
Did they? I thought they were still discussing it...

[Finella]

It seems to me that the conservative Anglicans have been waiting for any kind of "straw" that will give them the excuse they've been waiting for to walk out. Or form a new Anglican church. Or start a new Anglican reformation. Or whatever.

It feels like anything that happened at GC this year would have been used for this purpose, save a full renunciation of the ordination of women, the consecration of women, priests facing the congregation during the eucharist, the use of guitars for worship music, and the use of the 1979 prayer book.

Seeing as that's very unlikely, they were bound to be disappointed.

[SirTimothy]

Did they? I thought they were still discussing it...

I thought the vote had been positive...

[Aymn27]

The majority of the Anglican Communtion (especially the global south) does NOT recognize the validity of female bishops - since it is a deviation from historic catholicity. The CofE is still up in arms about it - with strong words coming from Rome denouncing the decision and warning of irreparable damage.

Effectively, what has happened is, that the ECUSA has elevated a bishop that it KNOWS 3/4 (or so) of the Anglican Communion will reject. Also, she will be acting as head consecrator of any new bishop - and according to catholic theology - she has no power to do this - so the consecrations will have no effect on the new bishops.

ECUSA could have pretty much pulled down their pants and shown their backside to the rest of the AC and gotten the same message across. It is a typical imperialist, liberal stance that "I know better than anybody else b/c I am a first world country and am 'with the times'"

[karen freeinchristman]

I thought the vote had been positive...
I don't think it has been officially put to the vote yet. But the signs are that it will pass. It's just the details that need working out. But don't quote me on that!

[SirTimothy]

3/4 of the Communion? We're seeing figures bandied around again... I proved in the other thread that a MAJORITY of provinces ordain women to the priesthood.

[PaladinValer]

SirTimothy, as much as I wish it did, it did not.

It got rid of legal barriers that would prohibit women from becoming bishops, but that's different from actually allowing them to become bishops.

However, you are absolutely correct when you say the vast majority of the Anglican Communion allows women clergy. A grand total of 14 of the provinces, roughly 37% (a large minority), allow women bishops. Just over half allow women priests.

[ContraMundum]

It seems to me that the conservative Anglicans have been waiting for any kind of "straw" that will give them the excuse they've been waiting for to walk out. Or form a new Anglican church. Or start a new Anglican reformation. Or whatever.

Actually, conservative Anglicans in my area deliberately did not start a new "church", but call themselves continuers because they merely continued as before, temporarily seperating themselves from unorthodox bishops. This is similar to the "flying bishops" solution found in the UK.

As for another Anglican Reformation, I'm all for it. Provided we reform the church and not invent a new one. Conservatives must again become "protestants", in as much as they protest for the truth, not for division based on trends.