"I Am A Woman" hymn

[MrJim]

OK here ya go.

It's #452 in the Celebration Hymnal published by Word/Integrity. Jack Hayford does the forward and is listed as part of the staff that created it in 1990 (I think that was the date). The song is copyright by Integrity/Hosanna 1997. Words are by Clair Cloninger.

[The hymn is to the tune of "Fairest Lord Jesus", an anonymous German hymn from 1677 that was set to the music we know in 1842 by Richard Willis]


"I am a woman called to be a servant
bound by the grace your love imparts, Lord make me humble
teach me to follow; make me a woman of your heart

"I am a woman called to speak with wisdom
shining a light that will lead to you; Lord give me courage
to be your witness; make me a woman of your truth

"I am a woman purchased by your mercy
bought by the love that would spare no cost; Lord make me holy
loving you only; make me a woman of your cross"

Not a bad song to sing I suppose...if you're not a GUY!:doh:

[christianmomof3]

Symbolically speaking, the church - all of the members of the Body of Christ is a female - we are the bride - with Christ as the bridegroom.

[MrJim]

Symbolically speaking, the church - all of the members of the Body of Christ is a female - we are the bride - with Christ as the bridegroom.

:P still ain't singing it...

[Crazy Liz]

Now maybe you can empathize with us being asked to sing Rise Up O Men of God. :doh:

[MrJim]

Now maybe you can empathize with us being asked to sing Rise Up O Men of God. :doh:

Have mercy-look what the dog dragged in:hug:

[Crazy Liz]

Didn't you see my post in The Barnraising last night?

I'm free!

[MrJim]

Didn't you see my post in The Barnraising last night?

I'm free!

I don't go up there for some reason:scratch: maybe I should...well I'm glad to hear of your emancipation though I must confess I'm not privvy to all the details but anytime anyone is freed from bondage then it is occasion to celebrate:clap:

[Joykins]

Now maybe you can empathize with us being asked to sing Rise Up O Men of God. :doh:

Or "Faithful Men" ^_^

[ChristianMountainGirl06]

lol!

[arunma]

Tell you what: the women can abstain from singing songs which have "men" in the title. But I'm certainly joining Menno in not singing "I am a Woman."

Maybe we need more songs like "Brethren We Have Met to Worship," which both sexes can sing.

[Joykins]

Tell you what: the women can abstain from singing songs which have "men" in the title. But I'm certainly joining Menno in not singing "I am a Woman."


It's only 1 syllable, either way. You can sneak it in by humming over the "wo" part...like I sneak the "wo" into "Faithful Men" ;)

"I am a man called to be a servant
bound by the grace your love imparts, Lord make me humble
teach me to follow; make me a man of your heart

"I am a man called to speak with wisdom
shining a light that will lead to you; Lord give me courage
to be your witness; make me a man of your truth

"I am a man purchased by your mercy
bought by the love that would spare no cost; Lord make me holy
loving you only; make me a man of your cross"

[Crazy Liz]

I was at a women's retreat a couple of years ago and we were asked to sing the kids' song Father Abraham. I thought it was totally wierd that we would sing "Father Abraham had many sons ... I am one of them, and so are you." After a couple of verses, I started yelling "and daughters" every time they sang "many sons."

[mlqurgw]

Of course the term men can and often does apply to both sexes in general. The word woman doesn't. Then again I do acknowledge that I am a child of God, but at 51 years of age I ain't no child either. ;)

[Joykins]

I was at a women's retreat a couple of years ago and we were asked to sing the kids' song Father Abraham. I thought it was totally wierd that we would sing "Father Abraham had many sons ... I am one of them, and so are you." After a couple of verses, I started yelling "and daughters" every time they sang "many sons."

Oh, that's funny. I always thought Father Abraham existed solely as a means of keeping a large group of kids under control by wearing them out :D

[Joykins]

Of course the term men can and often does apply to both sexes in general. The word woman doesn't. Then again I do acknowledge that I am a child of God, but at 51 years of age I ain't no child either. ;)

:)

*puts on grammar pedant hat*

This is a big issue (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_language#History), and generally I give people the benefit of the doubt in informal speech and writing. However, historical hymns and poems aside (changes to these being awkward and jarring), I think modern song (and other!) writers ought to use genuine gender-neutral terms when this is meant rather than relying on unmarked noun/masculine noun ambiguity. Where a pronoun is needed, I promote and use the singular they (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they)as a viable alternative of historical precedent and frequent common usage.

The challenge to the modern songwriter is to do this without sounding awkward or ridiculous. It's a big challenge but I'm sure they are up to it!

[mlqurgw]

:)

*puts on grammar pedant hat*

This is a big issue (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-neutral_language#History), and generally I give people the benefit of the doubt in informal speech and writing. However, historical hymns and poems aside (changes to these being awkward and jarring), I think modern song (and other!) writers ought to use genuine gender-neutral terms when this is meant rather than relying on unmarked noun/masculine noun ambiguity. Where a pronoun is needed, I promote and use the singular they (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they)as a viable alternative of historical precedent and frequent common usage.

The challenge to the modern songwriter is to do this without sounding awkward or ridiculous. It's a big challenge but I'm sure they are up to it!If you have read many of my posts you can tell that Engish grammer, or grammer in any language for that matter, has never been my best subject. :) It is a tremendous struggle for me. I do agree that modern writers have the tools and that there is a need to be more specific in how we use pronouns. I do find it somewhat disturbing though that when referring to the people of God we must sepreate the women and the men. I understand the desire of both sexes to be recognized for what they are but is it necessary? :scratch:

[Crazy Liz]

I'm a pronoun freak, too, I guess. I just see very few occasions, especially in hymnody, for using third-person singular pronouns, except when referring to Jesus. Even then, I usually prefer hymns that use second-person pronouns for deity. I also prefer that first-person pronouns be plural, not singular, in most instances. There are very few exceptions, which Charles Wesley seemed to understand. "And Can it Be" is the best example I can think of of a hymn that appropriately uses the first person singular.

[MrJim]

Well we can change he/she to "it"? What is gender neutral other than "it"?

[Crazy Liz]

Well we can change he/she to "it"? What is gender neutral other than "it"?
Joykins mentioned the singular "they." Many sentences can be re-written in a plural form with no change of meaning. And first and second-person pronouns are non-gendered in English, and are often more suitable than the third-peron for hymns and other poetry.

The hymn Menno is complaining about it written in the first person, though, and I'm sure couldn't be re-written. I'm not sure it's a suitable hymn selection for a mixed congregation. However, it might be useful for purposes of consciousness-raising. Many men don't think about hymns that exclude women, or when women complain about it, get defensive. "There's nothing wrong with the generic 'he.'" Then why wouldn't you use a generic "she?"

Oh well, sometimes when I read posts at CF about how sinful men are, I'm glad they're not talking about me. ;)

[MrJim]

Joykins mentioned the singular "they." Many sentences can be re-written in a plural form with no change of meaning. And first and second-person pronouns are non-gendered in English, and are often more suitable than the third-peron for hymns and other poetry.

The hymn Menno is complaining about it written in the first person, though, and I'm sure couldn't be re-written. I'm not sure it's a suitable hymn selection for a mixed congregation. However, it might be useful for purposes of consciousness-raising. Many men don't think about hymns that exclude women, or when women complain about it, get defensive. "There's nothing wrong with the generic 'he.'" Then why wouldn't you use a generic "she?"

Oh well, sometimes when I read posts at CF about how sinful men are, I'm glad they're not talking about me. ;)

:P ladies always have it so easy...

[ZiSunka]

In most cultures of the world, sons have more rights than daughters do. That's why the Bible keeps calling us all, "sons of God." It's not a gender thing as much as it is an inheritance thing and a rights thing. In many parts of Indian for instance, girls have no rights of inheritance at all, and they are required to serve the men in their homes, even if those men are younger and of a lower caste. Being sons of God, we women are not required to see ourselves as lesser beings or chattel to be bought and sold like daughters often are. So I proudly call myself a son of God, and I have no inclination at all to insist on being a daughter of God.

I used to feel differently until I met Aphaphan, a young woman from rural Cambodia who told me that daughters in her culture are considered commodoties, but sons are not. She became a Christian after reading in the Bible that she is a son of God because it gave her hope for a free and equal future.

[Lenora56]

Tell you what: the women can abstain from singing songs which have "men" in the title. But I'm certainly joining Menno in not singing "I am a Woman."

Maybe we need more songs like "Brethren We Have Met to Worship," which both sexes can sing.

Ok girls, let's all sneak in "Sistren we have met to worship"!

:D:D:D

[Lenora56]

In most cultures of the world, sons have more rights than daughters do. That's why the Bible keeps calling us all, "sons of God." It's not a gender thing as much as it is an inheritance thing and a rights thing. In many parts of Indian for instance, girls have no rights of inheritance at all, and they are required to serve the men in their homes, even if those men are younger and of a lower caste. Being sons of God, we women are not required to see ourselves as lesser beings or chattel to be bought and sold like daughters often are. So I proudly call myself a son of God, and I have no inclination at all to insist on being a daughter of God.

I used to feel differently until I met Aphaphan, a young woman from rural Cambodia who told me that daughters in her culture are considered commodoties, but sons are not. She became a Christian after reading in the Bible that she is a son of God because it gave her hope for a free and equal future.

Wow, I'm really glad she now has hope and a future.

[Joykins]

I have actually seen posts on CF that interpret the word "men" in the Bible as referring to males only even when the original language used a word that meant "people."

I wish I remember the particulars but the posts I saw were very unfriendly to women. :(

I think it is useful to make a distinction in the pursuit of accuracy.

[Crazy Liz]

In most cultures of the world, sons have more rights than daughters do. That's why the Bible keeps calling us all, "sons of God." It's not a gender thing as much as it is an inheritance thing and a rights thing. In many parts of Indian for instance, girls have no rights of inheritance at all, and they are required to serve the men in their homes, even if those men are younger and of a lower caste. Being sons of God, we women are not required to see ourselves as lesser beings or chattel to be bought and sold like daughters often are. So I proudly call myself a son of God, and I have no inclination at all to insist on being a daughter of God.

I used to feel differently until I met Aphaphan, a young woman from rural Cambodia who told me that daughters in her culture are considered commodoties, but sons are not. She became a Christian after reading in the Bible that she is a son of God because it gave her hope for a free and equal future.
Well said, LL.

[Crazy Liz]

I have actually seen posts on CF that interpret the word "men" in the Bible as referring to males only even when the original language used a word that meant "people."

I wish I remember the particulars but the posts I saw were very unfriendly to women. :(

I think it is useful to make a distinction in the pursuit of accuracy.
Absolutely, Joykins

[arunma]

This Scripture might be of interest:What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said, "I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst, and be separate from them, says the Lord, and touch no unclean thing; then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you, and you shall be sons and daughters to me, says the Lord Almighty. (2 Corinthians 6:16-18)

This would indicate that God means to include women when he claims his children through Christ. Let's also not forget that the word adelphoi (used as a New Testament term to refer to fellow Jews and fellow Christians) includes people of both genders by definition.

Ok girls, let's all sneak in "Sistren we have met to worship"!

Actually, you already get your own verse. One line in the song says, "Sisters, will you join and help us? Moses’ sister aided him."

[Iollain]

OK here ya go.

It's #452 in the Celebration Hymnal published by Word/Integrity. Jack Hayford does the forward and is listed as part of the staff that created it in 1990 (I think that was the date). The song is copyright by Integrity/Hosanna 1997. Words are by Clair Cloninger.

[The hymn is to the tune of "Fairest Lord Jesus", an anonymous German hymn from 1677 that was set to the music we know in 1842 by Richard Willis]


"I am a woman called to be a servant
bound by the grace your love imparts, Lord make me humble
teach me to follow; make me a woman of your heart

"I am a woman called to speak with wisdom
shining a light that will lead to you; Lord give me courage
to be your witness; make me a woman of your truth

"I am a woman purchased by your mercy
bought by the love that would spare no cost; Lord make me holy
loving you only; make me a woman of your cross"

Not a bad song to sing I suppose...if you're not a GUY!:doh:


I love it:thumbsup:

[Tappanga]

In most cultures of the world, sons have more rights than daughters do. That's why the Bible keeps calling us all, "sons of God." It's not a gender thing as much as it is an inheritance thing and a rights thing. In many parts of Indian for instance, girls have no rights of inheritance at all, and they are required to serve the men in their homes, even if those men are younger and of a lower caste. Being sons of God, we women are not required to see ourselves as lesser beings or chattel to be bought and sold like daughters often are. So I proudly call myself a son of God, and I have no inclination at all to insist on being a daughter of God.

I used to feel differently until I met Aphaphan, a young woman from rural Cambodia who told me that daughters in her culture are considered commodoties, but sons are not. She became a Christian after reading in the Bible that she is a son of God because it gave her hope for a free and equal future.


You know, it's times (and posts) like this that I wish you had a reputation button. :sigh:


:thumbsup: :amen:

[Erinwilcox]

I know that I am joining this thread rather late, but I can't resist getting my two sense in. I have absolutely no problem with singing songs like, "Good Christian Men Rejoice," etc. However, I would take issue with the men singing such songs using the feminine terms.

In the English language, the masculine is usually the all encompassing noun used. Therefore, when we sing using the masculine, it is rather obvious to me that women are included. I do realize that many feminists in our day are trying to feminize everything, even the Bible. . .including references to the He/Him of God as She/Her. However, I do not believe that this is a good thing (I can go into this later, if necessary).

God has made us women the way that we are and I believe that we are to delight in our femininity. But, I do not believe that this means that we are to promote it above all other things in the name of equality. Men and women are different and I think that that fact needs to be accepted. God has given us different roles and He has given honor to each.

[MrJim]

I know that I am joining this thread rather late, but I can't resist getting my two sense in. I have absolutely no problem with singing songs like, "Good Christian Men Rejoice," etc. However, I would take issue with the men singing such songs using the feminine terms.

In the English language, the masculine is usually the all encompassing noun used. Therefore, when we sing using the masculine, it is rather obvious to me that women are included. I do realize that many feminists in our day are trying to feminize everything, even the Bible. . .including references to the He/Him of God as She/Her. However, I do not believe that this is a good thing (I can go into this later, if necessary).

God has made us women the way that we are and I believe that we are to delight in our femininity. But, I do not believe that this means that we are to promote it above all other things in the name of equality. Men and women are different and I think that that fact needs to be accepted. God has given us different roles and He has given honor to each.

Kinda the way I thought it should be:thumbsup:

[JPPT1974]

Isn't that the Helen Reddy song you all are talking about?