Baptism/Salvation for the mentally challenged

[zhilan]

On TAW a thread came up asking why the Orthodox baptise babies. In that a question came up about how does Believers Baptism work for those who never reach mental capacity? Could someone who is mentally challeneged ever be baptised? How does their salvation work when they can never understand accepting Jesus. (I know obviously there are many levels of mental ability and certainly some could maybe not understand the theology but certainly understand that Jesus loves them and died for them, but what about those who can't even function at that level?)

Thanks!

[ZiSunka]

On TAW a thread came up asking why the Orthodox baptise babies. In that a question came up about how does Believers Baptism work for those who never reach mental capacity? Could someone who is mentally challeneged ever be baptised? How does their salvation work when they can never understand accepting Jesus. (I know obviously there are many levels of mental ability and certainly some could maybe not understand the theology but certainly understand that Jesus loves them and died for them, but what about those who can't even function at that level?)

Thanks!

Baptism doesn't save or confer salvation, so if a person doesn't understand sin and salvation, why would we baptize that person?? :confused:

God only knows what happens to people he allows to be born with mental disabilities that prevent them from ever consciously experiencing Christ as their savior. The Bible isn't a book or rules or conditions, so He is silent on the matter. I do know that God doesn't have the capacity to be cruel or unfair, so it's impossible for me to believe he allows them to be condemned. But all the baptisms in the world wouldn't save them.

[daveleau]

It is our belief through all the examples of baptism in Scripture that Scripture follows the profession of faith, which is a decision. Baptism is an outward sign ordained by God for the testimony of what occurred within. It has no salvific properties, as that is already done through the profession of faith (Rom 10:13).

The issue of baptizing babies/children or others who cannot make such a choice is never shown in Scripture because of the above. Neither discussed is the fate of those who die before the profession of faith can be made. This must be deduced from reason of what we know about God. God is a loving being, and does not unnecessarily condemn people who cannot confess of Him. This does not include that those who have not heard the Word of God and are mentally capable, because Scripture tells us of a natural revelation through which nature points to God as the Creator. But, those who are incapable of receiving the Word of God are under grace because they were incapable of contemplating the basic aspects of the Word. God places all people on earth for a reason. Those who are mentally challenged are here to be a blessing to others and to show the grace of God (God's use of life-long ailments: John 9:3). I know my brother-in-law , our Gold Medal Man, Timbo Connor, (http://www.leaumont.com/timbo.html) was placed here for a specific purpose of uniting my wife's parents and has been such a blessing to our family.
http://www.leaumont.com/images/timbo4.jpg
Likewise, God's loving kindness would not put someone on earth incapable of being saved. Scripture tells us it takes a confession of faith in Jesus Christ to be saved. If these cannot do this, then God provides for them, otherwise they would not be here.

In Him,
Dave


*a note on the picture above: My other brother-in-law was playing a joke with Timbo, and placed the beer in front of him. We do not feed him beer, but a healthy portion of milk, water and juice. Only the best for this 54 year old blessing in our family. BTW, also pictured above is Beaufort, the oldest in a family of 3 monkeys that accompany the Gold Medal Man wherever he goes. Bernice their son Bubba are not pictured.

[ZiSunka]

I had a cousin who was born with normal intelligence, but when she was three, she contracted scarlet fever which resulted in severe brain damage. She couldn't even feed herself or communicate verbally. She was really like a one year old all of her life. She could walk with help, but she couldn't do anything else for herself. When her mother died at age 78, Stella's sister had to decide whether to put Stella, who was in her fifties by then, in a home or take her into her own home and care for her herself. Her sister wrestled with the decision because her husband didn't want the burden of an elderly disabled person in their home when he was just getting ready to retire and start a new phase in life. Jane took in Stella anyway, but instead of driving Jane and her husband apart, Stella gave them a new reason to draw closer. Jane and John had never had children of their own and Stella was so child like and dependent that Jane and John had to work together to care for her. They rose to the occasion and ever after that they believed they were caring for an angel (that verse about entertaining angels unawares was their favorite verse). They were blessed by Stella instead of burdened by her. Stella died about 10 years ago, and I have to believe that God took her into his arms and brought her to heaven, not because she had done mighty things, but because she brought great faith to two people who had trusted in their careers and money before they learned their greatest job was to take care of Stella and lean on God for help. I believe that Stella was endowed with faith in some manner we don't understand, just as Jesus said about children, "...these little ones who have faith in Me..."

I also knew a little girl named Lisa who was injured at birth and had CP so badly that she never learned to sit up or take a bite of food. At 20 years old, she was still feeding from a baby bottle and soiling diapers. She never said a word, never followed a light with her eyes, never responded to her mother's voice. She was what would be considered a "vegetable" (I hate that term, it makes humans into insensate carrots and turnips). When she died at age 38, I know she never had even the slightest capacity to understand the gospel, but I do not believe that God could in anyway be unfair to her or anyone else. If God allowed her to have such a profound disability, then he provided a way for her to enter into faith in Him and be saved.

[meowmie]

I believe that God, in His unfailing love, has made an exception for those who truly CANNOT understand salvation.

On the other hand, I believe that if you have not accepted Christ when you ARE able to understand salvation and then come to a point in your life mentally where you CANNOT comprehend it, you will go to hell...you have had your chance...you have NOT made the choice to accept Him as Lord and Saviour.

[MrJim]

I believe that God, in His unfailing love, has made an exception for those who truly CANNOT understand salvation.

On the other hand, I believe that if you have not accepted Christ when you ARE able to understand salvation and then come to a point in your life mentally where you CANNOT comprehend it, you will go to hell...you have had your chance...you have NOT made the choice to accept Him as Lord and Saviour.

...Hmmm, I wouldn't agree with the latter part of that statement...

Hi meowmie, don't believe I've met you yet:wave: Bet you like cats! Wish I had one or two...

[daveleau]

I agree with the latter part of the statement. It'd be the same as if someone died before accepting Christ. They missed their opportunity. That's why Scripture teaches us not to put off being Saved, because we don't know what's going to happen. Scripture tells us this in the context of the Second Coming, but it applies to our deaths as well.

[MrJim]

I agree with the latter part of the statement. It'd be the same as if someone died before accepting Christ. They missed their opportunity. That's why Scripture teaches us not to put off being Saved, because we don't know what's going to happen. Scripture tells us this in the context of the Second Coming, but it applies to our deaths as well.

Naa still don't buy it. You just don't know what is going on inside the mind of someone that "seemingly" doesn't comprehend.

As long as they are breathin' there is still hope for God to work and it may be in ways we don't understand.

[daveleau]

Oh, yes. My statement is assuming the person is not capable of thoughts like this. And, this is also assuming God does not heal them and they never snap out of the mental problem. Anything is possible with God, and they are surely not lost while they have breath.

[zhilan]

What about someone who cannot fully understand it but has a basic understanding of Jesus (maybe someone with the mental age of a 3 or 4 year old). I know you wouldn't normally baptize a kid that young, but I know for certain that there are plenty of 3 and 4 year olds who know enough to love Jesus and know that Jesus died for them. If someone could understand that much but would never reach the mental level of most people at the age they get baptized, could the person in this situation be baptized?