Conversions to Orthodoxy

[OrthodoxyUSA]

I'm thinking about the origins of the church and if it is true that it matters where I pray and with who I pray.

I'm taking a look at Orthodoxy among other denominations to see if its right for me. I dont wish to convert without understanding a few things first.

So far Orthodoxy is a very interesting denomination.

All of your questions are welcome here... we will do our level best to answer carefully...

Christ is Risen!

Forgive me....:liturgy:

[Dust and Ashes]

Well, I thought I had posted my story here back last year but I guess I didn't so I'm pasting it from the unstickied thread where I just posted it. Anyway, here it is.


I got some basic Bible teaching from my paternal grandfather, who was a Baptist pastor, but I pretty much grew up as a hedonist. My mom liked to party hard so there was always something going on at my house and for a teen, I thought I had it made. I didn't have to go looking for drugs or a party because it was all at my house.

I began dabbling in the occult at about age 14 and by 15 I was deeply involved. I tried Wicca but I wasn't looking for balance, I wanted power. I bought a Satanic Bible when I was 15 and began practicing the rituals in it as well as other books from varying occultic religions. I even had a book that was essentially a bible for the ancient Babylonian religion. The first place I heard the names Marduk, Ishtar, etc. was not in the book of Daniel.

By the time I was 20, I had developed an aura of influence. Of course my life was falling apart, no one liked me, I was still pathologically introverted and I was dying from loneliness but, hey, I could make things happen to people I didn't like. Then I met this guy at work. He was humble and unassuming and very likable. But most of all, he was incredibly intriguing because whenever I got around him, the aura (read: flock of demons) just kind of fizzled away and I couldn't make it touch him at all, no matter how hard I tried.

Within a month, I repented of all the witchcraft and became a devout Baptist. I guess I can borrow heavily from Matthew Gallatin and say that I felt Christ and knew that He was real and that He loved me.

I loved my Baptist brothers and sisters but I wanted a more spiritual experience in worship so I drifted into the charismatic movement. I enjoyed the excitement and emotionalism but oddly I had a lot of difficulty yielding control of myself to the spiritual influences in the services. I can't get into the why of that here because of forum rules. Anyway, I had gotten to the point that I hated going to church. I loved Christ, I worshipped God (in my ignorant, limited way) but I got less than nothing from the services.

Then I discovered CF. I first logged on with a Pentecostal faith icon and you could probably find some of my posts buried deep in the Pentecostal/Charismatic forum. Then I noticed a couple of people with these really presumptuous signatures. Things like "Orthodoxy - Proclaiming the truth since 33AD." and "Orthodoxy - Pure, unadulterated Christianity."

I traced these people to a forum called The Ancient Way and began to observe how they interacted with each other. I was stunned to find a unity and love that I had never seen in any of the Churches I had ever attended so I was very intrigued.

Honestly, this part here is a little...hazy for me. It was like something was drawing me to learn more about Orthodoxy. I began to ask questions and do research and my excitement mounted as I became more and more convinced that I had found the Church that Christ founded. The Church that had withstood the test of time and kept the faith that was given to Her by the Apostles.

But the clincher....

Ever since I became a Christian way back in 1992, I had suffered from severe demonic oppression. It was like a 20 foot python wrapped around me at all times whispering dark, twisted, evil things in my ears all the time and flashing terrible images through my mind at the worst possible times. Only the small amount of truth that I possessed kept me from falling completely apart.

The moment, the very moment, that I made the decision to become Orthodox, the oppression broke and was gone. Of course my former pastor told me that "Maybe Satan is taking it easy on you to get you to go in a wrong direction." But I know better.

As far as what was the hardest thing for me to give up or accept, it was easily my rabid Zionism. I believed that the nation of Israel was justified in anything that it did simply because it was Israel. I strongly supported the forcible expulsion of Palestinians from Israel and got angry with anyone who disagreed. I criticized any mention of peace talks and believed that Israel should go on the offensive and take all the land they wanted in the region. If you wanted to really get me steamed, just suggest that the Church was the true Israel of God.

That was a big, tough pill to swallow for me.

I didn't have a problem with asking Saints for their prayers since I always believed they were with Christ anyway. And I always had a great deal of respect for Mary so it wan't a problem for me to begin to show that respect which she herself prophesied she would recieve.

And the spirituality I have found in Holy Orthodoxy is magnitudes beyond anything I ever experienced in any church or group with which I was involved. The deeper I go, the more I realize I haven't really scratched the surface yet.

O Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner. :bow:

[sin_vladimirov]

That is such a story.. only life can be so un-predictable.

When you say you had some powers over other, what do you mean?

[Dust and Ashes]

That is such a story.. only life can be so un-predictable.

When you say you had some powers over other, what do you mean?

On several occasions, I performed rituals in order to cause harm to people who had (in my mind) crossed me and they subsequently suffered exactly what I had prescribed.

Lord have mercy on me...:cry:

[sin_vladimirov]

I understand that, I used to think of the ways to inflict my revenge upon people.
It is what we do when we are in-division (out of Faith).
So human, so evil.

Repentance... is a powerfull tool.

Lord Jesus Christ, You know we love You, keep us that way.

[pilgrimtim]

What is my story? It is a long and traveled story like so many that have found their way into this Orthodox Faith.
I am combative when it comes to the truth. When I was fourteen years old (1973) I was at a summer camp of the Salvation Army when I heard the Officer speaking at the Sunday morning service say that Jesus is the Truth. That is firmly etched in my mind. I decided to follow this truth wherever it would lead me. In the years I have learn that it is never dangerous to probe truth with questions. Truth can respond to any question but I lie is revealed in its responses to question of clarification.
I stay with the Salvation Army not see any good reason to go join some other church. I had set my course on being an officer in the Salvation Army but by God's grace I was kept from that path. But I did dedicate myself to the two thrusts of the Salvation Army making disciples and helping the poor. Around 1990 after some struggles I was providentially taken to Jesus People USA of Chicago. For the next five years I was a servant of all. During that time I found the next path of service I would be a missionary to Eastern Europe and help all those poor souls rebuild their faith. In my conversation about the faith I have always tried to be sensitive to the framework people hold their faith in. I do not try to get baptist to be methodist or catholics to be protestants. SO I had to do some research on this sect call Orthodox. First step "The Orthodox Church" by Kalistos ware and then "the Orthodox Way" by same.
In due course with GOD continually prodding me to go to Romania I left Jesus People to find the money and support to Serve GOD in Romania for the rest of my life. I land in florida at a Western Rite Orthodox Church. The Priest was starting inquirers class the week after I arrived. What providence. And The day I decided to go and observe a service I was Taken to the Greek Orthodox Church in Orlando to hear about the differences between Orthodox and Catholics. Enlightening.
During the course of inquirers class I would think over things that were said or reservations that I had and no sooner had I formed a question in my mind but Gpd brought the response to it either in a book that I would be reading or in the class. The response was so clear and guileless that i could not find follow-up question that vanquish the new teaching.
After Inquirers class I consented to be Chrismated on the Eve of Christmas 1995 and made my first pilgrimage to Romania as an Orthodox Christian after Pascha 1996.
Now eight years later I am Reader in Church and Assist the Priest in the Altar During Divine Liturgy. Still going to Romania regularly and visiting orphans and encouraging (challanging) the Christians there.

[MariaRegina]

Welcome, Pilgrim Tim

[Kolya]

Welcome to TAW, Pilgrim Tim.

[Yiannis550]

Since I was born in Cyprus, I was baptized Orthodox when I was a baby and I don't exactly remember my feelings that day. But their was a conversion that took place in me. My whole life changed in a process that lasted about 3 years and the last year was the most dramatic one.



In Cyprus and Greece most people are Orthodox just in the papers and name. And that is who I was. I believed in God and I was going to Church every major holiday like Christmas or during the Holy Week and that was about it. I didn't know many details apart from the Bible as a fairy tale type of story.

Then I went in the US to college to study Engineering (Today when I say to people I am an Electrical Engineer they watch me in awe and surprise because they expect me to say I am a Theologian or something like that!)

I was subscribed in a Greek Jokes list and used to receive jokes everyday in my email. One day somebody sent a link to a Greek website, (it is usual that people sent other interesting links besides jokes in this list). The website was oodegr.com and the article was about God. It was explaining what is God and why he doesn't come down here to tell us "See I am here, I am your God" so to believe in him. That website is amazing. I kept reading other articles until I finished everything they had. It was serving me Orthodox Theology in a language that I understood as an Engineer, with citations and proofs. I still visit that website daily for reading new articles they publish. So now although I didn't become more religious I was more open and I understood better things about God and about Orthodoxy and it's difference from other Christian Dogmas.

After 2 years I graduated and went back to Cyprus. I started going more often to Church but still that added a few Sundays to my "Only in major feast days" schedule. One day I went with my brother to visit the Church of Saint Raphael the Neo Martyr in Cyprus. There in a small bookshop with Christian books I got the idea to ask for a book about Saint Kosmas the Aitolian. He is a saint that lived in Greece in the 1700s and he said a lot of prophecies that most of them became true. Some are still not here yet since they are about the second coming. I read about him in OODE website and I asked for his book. So I got a book that wasn't just about prophesies but also about his life and teachings. That book changed me totally. It changed the way I think and live. He speaks in such a simple language and explains our faith in such a way that he is magnificent. I still thank Saint Kosmas for his help in my prayers. And then while I was still reading that book, I came here in Edinburgh for my postgraduate degree. As soon as I came here I start looking for a church and I wanted to confess my sins (I never did it before) to a spiritual father. And isn't God and His ways amazing and mysterious! For I happened to live in a city where the Orthodox Church is in the University's Campus (University of Edinburgh) and that we have two amazing priests! One, Father John, is an old Scottish man who was an Episcopalian minister and he went to Constantinople to study the Orthodox faith and become an Orthodox priest because he felt the calling. He is so spiritual that he draws people around him like a magnet with his prayers. The other, Father Raphael, is a Greek young priest, who has this amazing gift of speech, that makes you hanging from his lips to listen what he has to say. I confessed for first time to Father John. I never felt like that in my whole life. That was last September or October I think. Since then my life is like new. I am a new person. Having so close to me these two magnificent fathers I am learning and improving everyday, because everyday I am going there for vespers. I forgot to say that Father John has it as a rule, to have every day Matins in the morning and Vespers in the Evening. I don't go for matins because I am a lazy stupid fool , to wake up and go so early in the morning, but I try to not miss Vespers.



Through the advice of father John, father Raphael and Elder Paisios (I read so many of his teachings this past year and he is so amazing that everything he says affects me!) God is bringing me closer and closer. I believe it was all planned. I mean even when I have a question, or a problem, a solution comes out of nowhere, either from some book I happen to read, or from a website, or a talk, or father John will just walk to me and give the answer... All I can do is thank the Lord who brought me close to him and allowed me to get to know the magnificence of the truth! In Orthodoxy everything makes sense and everything is true! All we need is the right guidance and lots of prayer.



To tell you some more about our community, I am now the student representative in the Committee of St Andrews Orthodox Church, and I will advertise some activities in case some of you are near our areas and want to visit:)

every Wednesday we have Bible Study with Father Raphael, who explains the Gospels line by line according to the Orthodox Fathers

Every Thursday we have Choir Practicing (I am trying to learn to chant but I am horrible)

Every Saturday we have spiritual talks by Father John



Finally all these activities are after Vespers which are Daily at 6:30pm

Matins are Daily at 7:30 am except Sundays and Feast Days when there is a Liturgy therefore Matins are at 9:00 am and the Liturgy at 10:30 am.

Our Community is like a family. We are all so close that everybody says they never found a place like that in any other place in Greece or Cyprus. I believe is all because of the prayers of Father John:pray:

God Bless you and if you are around Edinburgh send me an email to tell you where to find our Church.

[MariaRegina]

Since I was born in Cyprus, I was baptized Orthodox when I was a baby and I don't exactly remember my feelings that day. But their was a conversion that took place in me. My whole life changed in a process that lasted about 3 years and the last year was the most dramatic one.



In Cyprus and Greece most people are Orthodox just in the papers and name. And that is who I was. I believed in God and I was going to Church every major holiday like Christmas or during the Holy Week and that was about it. I didn't know many details apart from the Bible as a fairy tale type of story.

Then I went in the US to college to study Engineering (Today when I say to people I am an Electrical Engineer they watch me in awe and surprise because they expect me to say I am a Theologian or something like that!)

I was subscribed in a Greek Jokes list and used to receive jokes everyday in my email. One day somebody sent a link to a Greek website, (it is usual that people sent other interesting links besides jokes in this list). The website was oodegr.com and the article was about God. It was explaining what is God and why he doesn't come down here to tell us "See I am here, I am your God" so to believe in him. That website is amazing. I kept reading other articles until I finished everything they had. It was serving me Orthodox Theology in a language that I understood as an Engineer, with citations and proofs. I still visit that website daily for reading new articles they publish. So now although I didn't become more religious I was more open and I understood better things about God and about Orthodoxy and it's difference from other Christian Dogmas.

After 2 years I graduated and went back to Cyprus. I started going more often to Church but still that added a few Sundays to my "Only in major feast days" schedule. One day I went with my brother to visit the Church of Saint Raphael the Neo Martyr in Cyprus. There in a small bookshop with Christian books I got the idea to ask for a book about Saint Kosmas the Aitolian. He is a saint that lived in Greece in the 1700s and he said a lot of prophecies that most of them became true. Some are still not here yet since they are about the second coming. I read about him in OODE website and I asked for his book. So I got a book that wasn't just about prophesies but also about his life and teachings. That book changed me totally. It changed the way I think and live. He speaks in such a simple language and explains our faith in such a way that he is magnificent. I still thank Saint Kosmas for his help in my prayers. And then while I was still reading that book, I came here in Edinburgh for my postgraduate degree. As soon as I came here I start looking for a church and I wanted to confess my sins (I never did it before) to a spiritual father. And isn't God and His ways amazing and mysterious! For I happened to live in a city where the Orthodox Church is in the University's Campus (University of Edinburgh) and that we have two amazing priests! One, Father John, is an old Scottish man who was an Episcopalian minister and he went to Constantinople to study the Orthodox faith and become an Orthodox priest because he felt the calling. He is so spiritual that he draws people around him like a magnet with his prayers. The other, Father Raphael, is a Greek young priest, who has this amazing gift of speech, that makes you hanging from his lips to listen what he has to say. I confessed for first time to Father John. I never felt like that in my whole life. That was last September or October I think. Since then my life is like new. I am a new person. Having so close to me these two magnificent fathers I am learning and improving everyday, because everyday I am going there for vespers. I forgot to say that Father John has it as a rule, to have every day Matins in the morning and Vespers in the Evening. I don't go for matins because I am a lazy stupid fool , to wake up and go so early in the morning, but I try to not miss Vespers.



Through the advice of father John, father Raphael and Elder Paisios (I read so many of his teachings this past year and he is so amazing that everything he says affects me!) God is bringing me closer and closer. I believe it was all planned. I mean even when I have a question, or a problem, a solution comes out of nowhere, either from some book I happen to read, or from a website, or a talk, or father John will just walk to me and give the answer... All I can do is thank the Lord who brought me close to him and allowed me to get to know the magnificence of the truth! In Orthodoxy everything makes sense and everything is true! All we need is the right guidance and lots of prayer.



To tell you some more about our community, I am now the student representative in the Committee of St Andrews Orthodox Church, and I will advertise some activities in case some of you are near our areas and want to visit:)

every Wednesday we have Bible Study with Father Raphael, who explains the Gospels line by line according to the Orthodox Fathers

Every Thursday we have Choir Practicing (I am trying to learn to chant but I am horrible)

Every Saturday we have spiritual talks by Father John



Finally all these activities are after Vespers which are Daily at 6:30pm

Matins are Daily at 7:30 am except Sundays and Feast Days when there is a Liturgy therefore Matins are at 9:00 am and the Liturgy at 10:30 am.

Our Community is like a family. We are all so close that everybody says they never found a place like that in any other place in Greece or Cyprus. I believe is all because of the prayers of Father John:pray:

God Bless you and if you are around Edinburgh send me an email to tell you where to find our Church.


Amazing. Would Father John and Father Raphael be willing for you to publish some of their sermons here at a CF? Or better yet, would one or both of them be willing to post here occasionally and help us out.

[Shubunkin]

I have been "lurking" about here for quite some time, and so I know all of you, but you do not know me. This should change. It was suggested that I post my story of how I came to Orthodoxy here. This story is currently being "written" however, so it may not be easy to tell... but I will tell the beginning of this story, and what has occurred so far. I have been to many types of churches, and was baptized in a Church of God as a teenager. I married a Lutheran, and became Lutheran in 1991, and was active in our church in choir, Sunday School, the grade school there, and also with the Board of Evangelism. Bad things happened at this church, and I won't go into that here.

A few years ago I was diagnosed with a tumor on my thyroid. It was not cancerous, but was causing severe hyper-thyroid problems. Finally, I was introduced to a specialist in thyroid treatment, and was put through a vigorous round of anti-thyroid hormone medication that destroyed my health, caused excessive weight-gain, and so forth. Finally, it came time that this specialist wanted to do an I-131 treatment which would have destroyed my entire thyroid gland, and made me even more ill. The night before I was to go into an outpatient hospital to have this done... well, let's just say I had a "blue light experience" ... and I did not know what this was at the time. Also, the appointment the next day went well, but all they had time to do was check my thyroid levels. This gave me time to think, perhaps...but later on, they called to have me come in again (this was out of town), and have the I-131 treatment. I declined the treatment. The doctor who ordered this was furious with me, and wouldn't even let me call her to explain.

This experience had somehow given me the idea to try to cut down on the amount of iodine in my diet. We were eating a lot of seafood, etc., and so it was possible for me to do this. I have since cut out seafood (which I really love to eat) in my diet, and also changed over to plain, un-iodized salt in my diet. Well, there is no more problem after two years since that time. I have since lost a lot of weight, and feeling much better than before. In fact, our family doctor recently had my thyroid levels checked, and they are in fact in the normal range.

Then one day a few months ago I was surfing the Internet and came across this site: http://www.holyfire.org/eng/velich.htm

and couldn't believe my eyes!! This was what was I experienced two years ago. This was the full explanation for me. It seemed this made me so curious about the Orthodox faith that I even purchased an Orthodox Study Bible. But God is not finished with me yet, as this is only the beginning of the story.

I will try to keep you informed as this comes about. Oh, and I did not pick up this study with the idea of becoming Orthodox, at first. It actually didn't seem I was worthy in the first place. It did seem so fascinating that I couldn't put this study Bible down, but now ... this has become my path to follow.

[Kolya]

Welcome to TAW Charitina!
We all look forward to the rest of your wonderful story.
In IC XC
Kolya

[Xpycoctomos]

That's a wonderful story! Welcome to TAW!!!!!

How does your husband feel about this?

[Xpycoctomos]

If you've been lurking enough, you might already know that I was once Lutheran (like many others here who either were lutheran or looked into it seriously before coming Home). LCMS, ELCA, WELS? (LCMS here)

[Shubunkin]

That's a wonderful story! Welcome to TAW!!!!!

How does your husband feel about this?

So far he doesn't mind!

[Shubunkin]

If you've been lurking enough, you might already know that I was once Lutheran (like many others here who either were lutheran or looked into it seriously before coming Home). LCMS, ELCA, WELS? (LCMS here)


LCMS

[Xpycoctomos]

LCMS

Ah, the correct one ;)

[Rilian]

I finally wrote mine up the other day. Anyway, here it be:

My parents are Atheist/Agnostic and I only went to church a handful of times with extended family/friends as a kid. I would say I grew up with no religious inclination whatsoever. The first real flicker I can recall were some experiences while on a high school trip to the Soviet Union in the 80’s.

Two experiences in college were the turning point for me. I began attending mass regularly with some friends and fell in love with it. I read the Gospels for the first time and found the person and life of Jesus Christ to just spoke directly to my soul.

I attended Latin Rite services for the most part in several different parishes. I also did some reading about the history of the Ukrainian Catholic Church and attended services in a few of those parishes. I was very close to formally joining the church in college but held off. While in college I also attended a couple of Orthodox liturgies and high church Anglican services to see what they were like.

I fell out of church for a while after graduating, but thought about it a lot. When my wife and I started going to church it was to Protestant services because that was her background; though her Dad was Catholic (but had left the church) and she prayed the Rosary with her Grandmother as a kid. I definitely could tell I wasn’t a Protestant though. Eventually we settled on the Episcopal church, though it felt like a way station and in the back of my mind was always the idea of Catholicism as an eventuality.

Anyways, about two years ago something sparked my interest in Eastern Christianity again and I began taking an intensive look at the theology of the church. I have to admit up until that point I didn’t really investigate the theology of the respective churches I had attended a great deal. I think I always had this underlying assumption that the differences were varying cultural manifestations of the same thing. I basically decided my whole theological outlook was Eastern and one day out of the blue I pretty much told my wife I was going to become Orthodox. I had not at that point been to an EO liturgy since attending in college fourteen years earlier. Once she got over the shock, and after some emotional discussions she agreed to try it for a year. I know I’m lucky.

It turns out a mission was very close to us and I called the priest and talked to him. We visited after that and have been going since that time. We will be formally received in to the church this summer.

[Lotar]

Ah, the correct one ;)

The only real Lutherans. ;)

[Lotar]

(or "How I Learned to Stopped Worrying and Love the Church")

Steadily in the Grasp of Baal

Installment III

I felt the cold sweat run down my back as the pain in my shoulder slowly numbed. I thanked God that he stopped twisting before it dislocated. Colonel Carter was lying in the corner unconscious, or more precisely, I hoped that she was just unconscious; she had lost a lot of blood.

Baal slowly pulled a mature symbiote out one of his goon's pouch. "Such impudence. Did you truly think you could fool a god?"

"Actually, I did," I quipped, and then gasped as I felt the Jaffa give my arms a sharp twist. Stars appeared before my eyes, and I felt like I would lose my stomach. No, you will not pass out! I angrily told myself.

The symbiote's eyes flashed as it squirmed eagerly in Baal's hand. Its sole immediate desire was to burrow its way through the back of my neck, and I knew it. I'll be darned if I have to spend the next millennia a million light years from home and a prisoner in my own body.

"I think he likes you," Baal laughed cruelly.

I had to do something, and I had to do it quick…

…wait… wrong story…



Though at 21 I was at a low point in my faith, under my father's urging, I took up teaching Sunday school. He was convinced that if I got more involved, I would begin to become at better Christian. Though it did not help my faith, as he had hoped, it was a lot of fun for me; I love little kids.


Only one other thing of note happened that year, but it was something that has stuck with me since. Weaster of that year, I had decided to sleep in and just show up to teach, instead of going to the service. It so happened that upon making the last left before the church, an old lady in a stereotypical 70's Lincoln tank, ran the red light and crushed front end of my VW bug. People thought I had died, but I ended up walking away, with nothing more than a rub burn from the seatbelt.

I can vividly remember the tears in my mom's eyes when she first saw the vehicle. It was a true miracle, and I knew it.

I can't say that the experience made me instantly a better Christian, or person, but it did give me an unshakable belief that God was truly there. I now believe that He was preserving me so I could find His Church, and that on that day, He saved me not only from death but from perhaps the worst type of death, death as a lapsed Christian.

Once again, I entered into the wastelands of apathetic Christianity, belief that did little to affect my life.

Over year later my sin, of all things, would lead me somewhere that would change my life.

I was surfing the internet, looking for justification for a sin I struggle with, and I happened upon an internet forum that had a thread dedicated to the topic. You guessed it, Christian Forums.

After finding what I wanted to hear, I decided to browse through the forum and see what other types of topics there were. I happened across a certain, now deceased, forum called "Inter Denominational Debate." Here I read some posts made by a certain Catholic that made my blood boil. "One true Church!!! Oh no she didn't just say that!" Needless to say, I was soon registered to my first Internet forum.

I was 22 years old, I thought I knew everything and yet I knew nothing, I knew not the Church, and Baal was going to put a Goa'uld in my head.



Well, maybe not the Baal part, but the rest is true.

[MariaRegina]

I finally wrote mine up the other day. Anyway, here it be:

My parents are Atheist/Agnostic and I only went to church a handful of times with extended family/friends as a kid. I would say I grew up with no religious inclination whatsoever. The first real flicker I can recall were some experiences while on a high school trip to the Soviet Union in the 80’s.

Two experiences in college were the turning point for me. I began attending mass regularly with some friends and fell in love with it. I read the Gospels for the first time and found the person and life of Jesus Christ to just spoke directly to my soul.

I attended Latin Rite services for the most part in several different parishes. I also did some reading about the history of the Ukrainian Catholic Church and attended services in a few of those parishes. I was very close to formally joining the church in college but held off. While in college I also attended a couple of Orthodox liturgies and high church Anglican services to see what they were like.

I fell out of church for a while after graduating, but thought about it a lot. When my wife and I started going to church it was to Protestant services because that was her background; though her Dad was Catholic (but had left the church) and she prayed the Rosary with her Grandmother as a kid. I definitely could tell I wasn’t a Protestant though. Eventually we settled on the Episcopal church, though it felt like a way station and in the back of my mind was always the idea of Catholicism as an eventuality.

Anyways, about two years ago something sparked my interest in Eastern Christianity again and I began taking an intensive look at the theology of the church. I have to admit up until that point I didn’t really investigate the theology of the respective churches I had attended a great deal. I think I always had this underlying assumption that the differences were varying cultural manifestations of the same thing. I basically decided my whole theological outlook was Eastern and one day out of the blue I pretty much told my wife I was going to become Orthodox. I had not at that point been to an EO liturgy since attending in college fourteen years earlier. Once she got over the shock, and after some emotional discussions she agreed to try it for a year. I know I’m lucky.

It turns out a mission was very close to us and I called the priest and talked to him. We visited after that and have been going since that time. We will be formally received in to the church this summer.


Ah. Taste and see how good the Lord is.

Welcome home to Orthodoxy, Rilian.

[Xpycoctomos]

Rilian, how did your wife finally warm up to it? Does she prefer it or would Catholicism have been just as good for her?

John

[MariaRegina]

(or "How I Learned to Stopped Worrying and Love the Church")

Steadily in the Grasp of Baal

Installment III

I felt the cold sweat run down my back as the pain in my shoulder slowly numbed. I thanked God that he stopped twisting before it dislocated. Colonel Carter was lying in the corner unconscious, or more precisely, I hoped that she was just unconscious; she had lost a lot of blood.

Baal slowly pulled a mature symbiote out one of his goon's pouch. "Such impudence. Did you truly think you could fool a god?"

"Actually, I did," I quipped, and then gasped as I felt the Jaffa give my arms a sharp twist. Stars appeared before my eyes, and I felt like I would lose my stomach. No, you will not pass out! I angrily told myself.

The symbiote's eyes flashed as it squirmed eagerly in Baal's hand. Its sole immediate desire was to burrow its way through the back of my neck, and I knew it. I'll be darned if I have to spend the next millennia a million light years from home and a prisoner in my own body.

"I think he likes you," Baal laughed cruelly.

I had to do something, and I had to do it quick…

…wait… wrong story…



Though at 21 I was at a low point in my faith, under my father's urging, I took up teaching Sunday school. He was convinced that if I got more involved, I would begin to become at better Christian. Though it did not help my faith, as he had hoped, it was a lot of fun for me; I love little kids.


Only one other thing of note happened that year, but it was something that has stuck with me since. Weaster of that year, I had decided to sleep in and just show up to teach, instead of going to the service. It so happened that upon making the last left before the church, an old lady in a stereotypical 70's Lincoln tank, ran the red light and crushed front end of my VW bug. People thought I had died, but I ended up walking away, with nothing more than a rub burn from the seatbelt.

I can vividly remember the tears in my mom's eyes when she first saw the vehicle. It was a true miracle, and I knew it.

I can't say that the experience made me instantly a better Christian, or person, but it did give me an unshakable belief that God was truly there. I now believe that He was preserving me so I could find His Church, and that on that day, He saved me not only from death but from perhaps the worst type of death, death as a lapsed Christian.

Once again, I entered into the wastelands of apathetic Christianity, belief that did little to affect my life.

Over year later my sin, of all things, would lead me somewhere that would change my life.

I was surfing the internet, looking for justification for a sin I struggle with, and I happened upon an internet forum that had a thread dedicated to the topic. You guessed it, Christian Forums.

After finding what I wanted to hear, I decided to browse through the forum and see what other types of topics there were. I happened across a certain, now deceased, forum called "Inter Denominational Debate." Here I read some posts made by a certain Catholic that made my blood boil. "One true Church!!! Oh no she didn't just say that!" Needless to say, I was soon registered to my first Internet forum.

I was 22 years old, I thought I knew everything and yet I knew nothing, I knew not the Church, and Baal was going to put a Goa'uld in my head.



Well, maybe not the Baal part, but the rest is true.


Dear Lotar,

You had me kind of worried. I was wondering if you had contact with aliens as I read the first paragraph. Are you planning on writing SciFi?

That was really a cliff hanger.

Lovingly in Christ,
Elizabeth

[Rilian]

Rilian, how did your wife finally warm up to it?

Well, she's really not interested in dogma or church history or anything like that. I think primarily what made her comfortable was just attending the liturgy. She also read bishop Kallistos' The Orthodox Way which I think she liked. She also asked our priest a lot of questions.

Really I would have to ask her though.

Does she prefer it or would Catholicism have been just as good for her?

I would have to ask her. I know she thinks priests should be able to marry and she said she thinks it's a lot easier to relate to our priest and Khouria because they face many of the same struggles as us. I think she also prefers a smaller parish where people are much more familiar with each other. I know you can find both of those things in the RCC, but my experience was it was harder to come by.

All of her friends who are religious, aside from people we know from church, are Catholic. We also agreed that if public schools did not work out for our kids, we would send them to one of the Catholic schools around us.

[MariaRegina]

Well, she's really not interested in dogma or church history or anything like that. I think primarily what made her comfortable was just attending the liturgy. She also read bishop Kallistos' The Orthodox Way which I think she liked. She also asked our priest a lot of questions.

Really I would have to ask her though.



I would have to ask her. I know she thinks priests should be able to marry and she said she thinks it's a lot easier to relate to our priest and Khouria because they face many of the same struggles as us. I think she also prefers a smaller parish where people are much more familiar with each other. I know you can find both of those things in the RCC, but my experience was it was harder to come by.

All of her friends who are religious, aside from people we know from church, are Catholic. We also agreed that if public schools did not work out for our kids, we would send them to one of the Catholic schools around us.


Have you considered home schooling? There are home schooling support groups operating around the country. It's really wonderful and promotes family unity.

[Rilian]

Have you considered home schooling? There are home schooling support groups operating around the country. It's really wonderful and promotes family unity.

We talked about it, but my wife didn't think she or my daughter was well suited to it. My son would probably be fine with it though. We're trying to do things outside of church to foster faith and create family time as well. We're been looking at Fr. Coniaris' book about making God real in the home for some ideas.

I have heard good things about home schooling and I know many people have had success with it. I have to say I have seen one instance where I think the kids education is suffering somewhat though because of it. That could be due to various factors.

[Rilian]

Does she prefer it or would Catholicism have been just as good for her?

This came up in a conversation today and she says Orthodoxy matches what she believes. She said she could not be Catholic.

[Xpycoctomos]

Rilian,

Your wife's experience and points of view re the RCC and OC are exactly the same as my girlfriends. She likes Hopko a lot and Ware (well, she was bored to tears by Orthodox Church, but she loved the Orthodox Way, and Mountain of Silence). It's funny, but Im all into this theology stuff and while she can have limited conversations about it and is perfectly comfortable with the idea of others being and remaining Catholic... she lives Orthodoxy so much better than I. I think it's a good team because she grounds me in what's most important (although she doesn't see this). She just hates the incense (the slavs don't understand that the sanctuary does not have to be hazy to be holy :)) because she has messed up sinuses. She's a trooper during Vespers and Liturgy!

John

[Xpycoctomos]

Oh, and my gf and I also plan to send our kids to a Catholic School (at least for grade school), as long as it is actually Catholic. So many of them around here though are pandering to academics to the point that they will hire non-Catholics and even non-Christians to teach there. Nuts!

John

[MariaRegina]

Oh, and my gf and I also plan to send our kids to a Catholic School (at least for grade school), as long as it is actually Catholic. So many of them around here though are pandering to academics to the point that they will hire non-Catholics and even non-Christians to teach there. Nuts!

John

Check it out first. A lot of the so-called Catholic schools in the Los Angeles diocese are far from Catholic - and many of the student come out believing in abortion. My next door neighbor sent his kids to the local Catholic school and he was really shocked.

[Xpycoctomos]

Check it out first. A lot of the so-called Catholic schools in the Los Angeles diocese are far from Catholic - and many of the student come out believing in abortion. My next door neighbor sent his kids to the local Catholic school and he was really shocked.

LOL. Consider the source. I am shocked that such a thing would happen in LA of all places... under the Shepherd of orthodox Catholicism? ;)

Of course I would check it out, but for several reasons, I much prefer to send my kids to a good Catholic School or to a good public school in a district if need be. Home schooling is not appealing to myself or my gf although we do plan on supplementing our kids education. There are many good public schools where kids can go to get a good education and many cases a more well-rounded education than at some parochial schools (becasue of their limited resources and size) and how what they come out believing is, in many cases, a reflection of the parent more than the school.

I know I am in the minority here in supporting Public Education (Although I still prefer a good Catholic School) over homeschooling... but that's just how I feel about it. I certainly won't tell anyone else they shouldn't homeschool their kid. It is a right that parents should have and a right that I could concieve using were the circumstances extreme enough.

John

[Rilian]

I know I am in the minority here in supporting Public Education (Although I still prefer a good Catholic School) over homeschooling... but that's just how I feel about it. I certainly won't tell anyone else they shouldn't homeschool their kid. It is a right that parents should have and a right that I could concieve using were the circumstances extreme enough.

John

You're not alone John. We moved to the township we live in specifically because the schools were so highly rated. The fact is private school is a lot of money, and that's money on top of what has already gone in to your property taxes.

We'll see how it goes, I've heard some nutty things about public schools lately. I was also friends with the kids who came in to my school from Catholic school after 8th grade and they were total trouble makers.

Besides, I went to public school and just look at me. Oh wait, never mind.

[Pyotr]

This is a post from OC.net (would have provided a link, but alas! I don't have sufficient posts yet):

I grew up Southern Baptist, but I had had some exposure to the charismatic movement in high school, so ORU was a wonderful thing, I thought, in terms of all the charismatic stuff. I liked the upbeat, energetic thing that was happening...finally, it was all right to be emotional in worship instead of just tolerating dry, stuffy ritual! But after about a semester and a half...well...all of a sudden I was having second thoughts about emotionistic worship. I saw the weird excesses that emotional experiences can drive Christians to. These included falling on the ground a la Benny Hinn (who used to be Orthodox, BTW), barking like dogs, "manifestations" of the "Spirit" like speaking in tongues (nonsensical babbling), "prophetic words" from God (appeals to the law of averages for getting something accurate about a total stranger (either that or wonderful, positive messages that the receiver WANTED to be true) and bizarre mantras we were expected to chant ("MONEEEEEEEEEY COMETH! TO ME! NOW!") No foolin'. It made me realize that this could not be authentic, original, New Testament Christianity -- at which point I realized I didn't even know what original, NT Christianity was. So I started looking into early Christian history towards the end of my freshman year, for two reasons. One, I wanted to compare the spirituality of the early Church with all the prosperity, all-healing-all-the-time, and/or everything-is-all-good-between-me-and-God sprituality that goes on today in American Charismaticism. Two, I wanted, to borrow a Southern Baptist phrase, "to get back to the New Testament Church."

So I looked at the earliest documents outside the Bible in order to get some context going...specifically, I read the Apostolic Fathers (i.e., Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp), followed by Ireneaus, Cyprian, Tertullian, Origen. To make a long story VERY short, I got more than I bargained for. Not only did I quickly find condemnations of the things that went on at ORU (which was pretty much Montanism revisited), I found my own Baptist upbringing being uprooted by things like strictly liturgical worship, an elevated role for Mary, prayers for the dead and to the saints, confession to a priest, the Eucharist being the actual body/blood of Christ, baptismal regeneration, the absence of "Eternal Security," and adamant anti-denominationalism.

So I couldn't stay were I had been. I went from Episcopalian masses to Roman Catholic masses, to see what they had to say. I loved the worship; this was my first taste of apostolic Christian worship, or "heaven on earth," as it's been called. Due to things I was finding in the Fathers (and things I wasn't finding), I stopped going to masses and attended an Eastern Orthodox liturgy at St. Antony's Antiochian Orthodox Church. Hated it the first time I went; much preferred the Western confessions' worship. Nevertheless, after a while I was amazed to see such similarity in doctrine between what the early Church said, what Scripture said in light of her interpretation, and what this Orthodox priest was saying. Several liturgies (which began to grow on me), books, prayers, questions, answers, and all-nighters later (I did so much research on this that my studies suffered!), I decided to become a catechumen.

Something was happening at the time at ORU, unbeknownst to me, in terms of Orthodoxy; I found out that I was not the only one to be moving in on this train of thought. I was shocked (yet again) to find ORU grads already in St. Antony's ! More than that, there were a few folks here on campus who were beginning to ask similar questions! And more that that, the priest himself was an alum from ORU, and said that back in the late 70s or early 80s, when he was in seminary there, he and about 20 other people converted to Orthodoxy (about 6 of whom became priests). Something similar apparently started up again, as I can think of about 30 to 40 other people from ORU right off the top of my head that either have become Orthodox already or are seriously considering becoming so.

I don't know if the faculty at ORU really knew what to do with all this; letters were circulated, professors started bringing it up in classes (some of which had nothing to do with theology!) even the president of the university mentioned during the chapel service that ORU was in complete agreement with the early church Fathers! Why I would want to look to the past was lost on many there (My RA one year actually said I was crazy to look to the past for my belief). I blame what I call the "chosen generation syndrome" for this. This horrible mindset is VERY attractive to teenagers and young adults, and even to some adults who haven't grown up yet! The idea, basically, is that our parents' generation has dropped the ball (along with that of our grandparents, and so on) regarding taking Christ to the nations, bringing healing and a change to the political climate of the US, but never fear, because God is doing A NEW THING, which (of course), we were on the front lines of! WE were the ones who would CHANGE IT ALL, and the power of God would be evident in this. Which basically gave us license, in our eyes, to let happen whatever we wanted or deemed necessary, because we were on the verge of some "breakthrough" that would require something the world had NEVER SEEN BEFORE--certainly nothing a 2,000-year-old liturgical, man-made religion could provide. So we were left to either swallow what they gave us or suffer the guilt trips of "Don't touch God's annointed!" if we questioned what someone said in chapel. No wonder we all left. No wonder ORU is now jokingly dubbed the "St. Vlad's of the South"; I think more Orthodox come out of there than any other school that's not an Orthodox seminary than any other school in the country.

So there y'go.

[MariaRegina]

This is a post from OC.net (would have provided a link, but alas! I don't have sufficient posts yet):

I grew up Southern Baptist, but I had had some exposure to the charismatic movement in high school, so ORU was a wonderful thing, I thought, in terms of all the charismatic stuff. I liked the upbeat, energetic thing that was happening...finally, it was all right to be emotional in worship instead of just tolerating dry, stuffy ritual! But after about a semester and a half...well...all of a sudden I was having second thoughts about emotionistic worship. I saw the weird excesses that emotional experiences can drive Christians to. These included falling on the ground a la Benny Hinn (who used to be Orthodox, BTW), barking like dogs, "manifestations" of the "Spirit" like speaking in tongues (nonsensical babbling), "prophetic words" from God (appeals to the law of averages for getting something accurate about a total stranger (either that or wonderful, positive messages that the receiver WANTED to be true) and bizarre mantras we were expected to chant ("MONEEEEEEEEEY COMETH! TO ME! NOW!") No foolin'. It made me realize that this could not be authentic, original, New Testament Christianity -- at which point I realized I didn't even know what original, NT Christianity was. So I started looking into early Christian history towards the end of my freshman year, for two reasons. One, I wanted to compare the spirituality of the early Church with all the prosperity, all-healing-all-the-time, and/or everything-is-all-good-between-me-and-God sprituality that goes on today in American Charismaticism. Two, I wanted, to borrow a Southern Baptist phrase, "to get back to the New Testament Church."

So I looked at the earliest documents outside the Bible in order to get some context going...specifically, I read the Apostolic Fathers (i.e., Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp), followed by Ireneaus, Cyprian, Tertullian, Origen. To make a long story VERY short, I got more than I bargained for. Not only did I quickly find condemnations of the things that went on at ORU (which was pretty much Montanism revisited), I found my own Baptist upbringing being uprooted by things like strictly liturgical worship, an elevated role for Mary, prayers for the dead and to the saints, confession to a priest, the Eucharist being the actual body/blood of Christ, baptismal regeneration, the absence of "Eternal Security," and adamant anti-denominationalism.

So I couldn't stay were I had been. I went from Episcopalian masses to Roman Catholic masses, to see what they had to say. I loved the worship; this was my first taste of apostolic Christian worship, or "heaven on earth," as it's been called. Due to things I was finding in the Fathers (and things I wasn't finding), I stopped going to masses and attended an Eastern Orthodox liturgy at St. Antony's Antiochian Orthodox Church. Hated it the first time I went; much preferred the Western confessions' worship. Nevertheless, after a while I was amazed to see such similarity in doctrine between what the early Church said, what Scripture said in light of her interpretation, and what this Orthodox priest was saying. Several liturgies (which began to grow on me), books, prayers, questions, answers, and all-nighters later (I did so much research on this that my studies suffered!), I decided to become a catechumen.

Something was happening at the time at ORU, unbeknownst to me, in terms of Orthodoxy; I found out that I was not the only one to be moving in on this train of thought. I was shocked (yet again) to find ORU grads already in St. Antony's ! More than that, there were a few folks here on campus who were beginning to ask similar questions! And more that that, the priest himself was an alum from ORU, and said that back in the late 70s or early 80s, when he was in seminary there, he and about 20 other people converted to Orthodoxy (about 6 of whom became priests). Something similar apparently started up again, as I can think of about 30 to 40 other people from ORU right off the top of my head that either have become Orthodox already or are seriously considering becoming so.

I don't know if the faculty at ORU really knew what to do with all this; letters were circulated, professors started bringing it up in classes (some of which had nothing to do with theology!) even the president of the university mentioned during the chapel service that ORU was in complete agreement with the early church Fathers! Why I would want to look to the past was lost on many there (My RA one year actually said I was crazy to look to the past for my belief). I blame what I call the "chosen generation syndrome" for this. This horrible mindset is VERY attractive to teenagers and young adults, and even to some adults who haven't grown up yet! The idea, basically, is that our parents' generation has dropped the ball (along with that of our grandparents, and so on) regarding taking Christ to the nations, bringing healing and a change to the political climate of the US, but never fear, because God is doing A NEW THING, which (of course), we were on the front lines of! WE were the ones who would CHANGE IT ALL, and the power of God would be evident in this. Which basically gave us license, in our eyes, to let happen whatever we wanted or deemed necessary, because we were on the verge of some "breakthrough" that would require something the world had NEVER SEEN BEFORE--certainly nothing a 2,000-year-old liturgical, man-made religion could provide. So we were left to either swallow what they gave us or suffer the guilt trips of "Don't touch God's annointed!" if we questioned what someone said in chapel. No wonder we all left. No wonder ORU is now jokingly dubbed the "St. Vlad's of the South"; I think more Orthodox come out of there than any other school that's not an Orthodox seminary than any other school in the country.

So there y'go.

Is ORU still considered St. Vlads of the South?

[Marjorie]

Welcome to TAW Pytor!!! Good to have you. :hug:

EDIT: Oh wait, you're Pedro! Hey!!!

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Pyotr]

Is ORU still considered St. Vlads of the South?

Nope; unfortunately the steady flow of converts when I was there has slowed to something of a drip.

[Ioan cel Nou]

Hi,

Well, to post a short version of my conversion story, I was brought up Lutheran although I was baptised in an Anglican church, Lutheran ones being hard to find here. When I was 18 I decided to go to work as a missionary (religiously motivated aid worker rather than evangelist) in Romania. I worked with children at the notorious Spital de Copii Neuropsihici in Siret, Bucovina. (Pictures of this institution have recently been shown on the BBC news website, including the specific kids I worked with). Whilst there I became fascinated by Romanian history and the started visiting the local monasteries. In one I met a fantastic monk (whose name I unfortunately never got) who showed such a loving, sincere and enthusiastic example that I thought, 'Wow, that's real Christianity!' He gave me a prayer book, which I still use, and I started reading up on Orthodoxy. Eventually, several years later, I entered the catechumenate and shortly after was married in a Church in Romania. I was finally accepted into the Orthodox Church in March 2003, four months before our first child was born after I told my priest I would like it if the whole family were Orthodox in time for my son's baptism. He agreed and the rest is history.

James

[Kolya]

Welcome to TAW James. A very moving story. There is a lot of stuff you've left out that one can read in between the lines.
I'm happy to have another member on the east of the Greenwich Line, as this place gets very quiet during Europe and Africa's working day.:)
We're all looking forward to seeing you post more here.
BTW, our sympathy goes out to you at this time over the recent attacks.
Many years, James!
Kolya

[Marjorie]

James, welcome!

Don't we have another here who started out as a missionary to Eastern Europeans and then became Orthodox?

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Rilian]

I worked with children at the notorious Spital de Copii Neuropsihici in Siret, Bucovina. (Pictures of this institution have recently been shown on the BBC news website, including the specific kids I worked with).

I saw that earlier in the week James. The stories were heartbreaking. Have you been back recently?

[Ioan cel Nou]

I saw that earlier in the week James. The stories were heartbreaking. Have you been back recently?

I haven't been back to Siret since last August, though I do go fairly frequently - mostly to visit friends and my wife's family. I actually knew Kate McGeown (the reporter who wrote those BBC articles) back in '96 when she was volunteering at the 'Neuro' and one of the pictures was of the exact room of kids I worked with. One of the people Kate quoted is also a family friend (my godmother's godmother), though she described her as a pharmacist when she is in fact the chief medical lab technician in the town. Another error was describing the hospital building as communist era when it was actually used as a barracks by German troops in WWII, but those minor mistakes aside, the articles were pretty good, and very close to home.

The 'Neuro' was actually shut down a few years back (I think it was in 2000 or 2001) so I don't actually see many of the kids any more. I occasionally bump into some of those that stayed in Siret and one is a family friend who now has his own flat, lives independently and workd as an electrician - so it's not all doom and gloom. Some others work in the Swedish furniture factory which used to be managed by my sister-in-law's husband. It's a pretty close-knit community and I think I have at least a passing acquaintance with most of the town.

Some of the kids I worked with have since died, of course, several having suffered from HIV or Hepatitis B and I unfortunately missed the funeral of one child I'd worked with quite closely by about a week. I wish I'd been able to get back a little earlier. A lot has changed since the mid-nineties, but I still absolutely love the town, the people and Romania in general (Bucharest excepted) and I hope to retire out there eventually. If I ever get the opportunity I'd also dearly like to attend the seminary in Iasi.

James

[Kolya]

I occasionally bump into some of those that stayed in Siret and one is a family friend who now has his own flat, lives independently and workd as an electrician - so it's not all doom and gloom.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/flat


flat 2 (flăt)

n.

1. An apartment on one floor of a building.




James, Remember that most Americans don't know what a 'flat' is. You'll have to polish up your american vocabulary.:)

[choirfiend]

Sure we do :) We're somewhat well versed with British slang...

[Kolya]

Sure we do :) We're somewhat well versed with British slang...

OK, OK, I'm sorry.:sorry:
Just 'flat' is not 'slang'. It's a 'normal' Britsh Commonwealth word.:P

[prodromos]

I had a flat whilst driving at 120 km/h a couple of months ago. The tyre was completely shredded!

[Kolya]

I had a flat whilst driving at 120 km/h a couple of months ago. The tyre was completely shredded!

Yah, there's those too - can be kinda dangerous at that speed John. Your angels were looking out for you.:)

Actually, at that dictionary site http://www.thefreedictionary.com/flat (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/flat), I never realised there were so many 'flat' meanings.:P

[Ioan cel Nou]

Kolya et al,

Well, I will continue to use flat when speaking English - I may not be British ethnically, but I grew up here, so that's how I speak. Incidentally, even my Romanian wife says flat in English, despite the Romanian word being apartament. I wouldn't have thought it would actually cause confusion - if I had been talking about chips, though, there might be some scope for misunderstanding.

James

[MariaRegina]

Dear James,

Who is the saint in your avatar Icon - I wish the avatars were a tad bigger.

YSIC,
Elizabeth

[Kolya]

Now I've had my chips!:smile:
No offence meant James, just teasing a bit.
Thanks for your posts, and please keep 'em coming!

[prodromos]

Your angels were looking out for you.:)Amen to that. They certainly were :crosseo:

[Ioan cel Nou]

Dear James,

Who is the saint in your avatar Icon - I wish the avatars were a tad bigger.

YSIC,
Elizabeth

Elizabeth,

I wish the avatars were a little bigger too, then I wouldn't have had to have squished the image to get it to fit. If you hover over the avatar, the name will appear as a tooltip, but I don't guess that will help too much.

His name in English is Stephen the Great and he was Voievod (sort of like Prince, but there's no direct translation in English) of Moldova from 1457-1504. He was the cousin of Vlad Tepes (Voievod of Wallachia and inspiration for Dracula) and defended Moldova against the Ottoman Turks as well as Hungarian, Polish and Tartar invasions. He was a great defender of the Church and dedicated every battle to God, building a Church or monastery in thanks for every one of his nearly 50 victories. He was given the title 'Athlete of Christ' by the Pope (to my knowledge the only non-Catholic monarch to receive such a title, which goes to show how widely reknowned he was as a devout Christian) for his defence of Christendom but, after seeing the fall of Constantinople and the reluctance of western powers to aid either the Roman Empire or, later, Moldova from the muslims, told his son (on his death bed) to sue for peace with the Turks if they would guarantee religious freedom. This happened and Moldova became an independant suzerain state of the Ottoman Empire, retaining its Orthodox faith. His title in Romanian is 'Dreptcredinciosul Voievod Stefan cel Mare si Sfant', or 'The Right-Believing Prince Stephen the Great and Holy'.

His capital was in Suceava, close to where I worked in Romania and he is my son's patron saint (because I hope he will be inspired to defend his faith to the last also). He was officially glorified by the Holy Synod of the Romanian Church in 1992, along with his spiritual father, St. Daniel the Hesychast (Sf. Daniil Sihastru), who will be the patron saint of our next child (due on his feast day, 18th December) if it proves to be a boy.

Hope that helps.

James

[Ioan cel Nou]

Now I've had my chips!:smile:
No offence meant James, just teasing a bit.
Thanks for your posts, and please keep 'em coming!

Don't worry. I didn't take offence - I was just a little surprised someone might think Americans wouldn't understand the word flat.

James

[Yiannis550]

Elizabeth,

He was the cousin of Vlad Tepes (Voievod of Wallachia and inspiration for Dracula) and defended Moldova against the Ottoman Turks as well as Hungarian, Polish and Tartar invasions.



Is it true what they say that Count Dracula was actually an Orthodox and a very good man who fought for Christianity, but the Roman Catholics altered his name and fame because of that?

I heard something like that from a friend but he couldnt remember the source he found it in.

[Ioan cel Nou]

Is it true what they say that Count Dracula was actually an Orthodox and a very good man who fought for Christianity, but the Roman Catholics altered his name and fame because of that?

I heard something like that from a friend but he couldnt remember the source he found it in.

Well, all the misinformation about Vlad Tepes is one of my biggest bugbears as an amateur interested in Romanian history, so I'm only too happy to reply to this.

The first thing to note is that Vlad Tepes was a Voievod, not a count. This is roughly equivalent to a prince. He was also from Tara Romaneasca (Wallachia) and not Transylvania, though he did grow up in exile in Transylvania as did his cousin Stefan cel Mare, both being close to Iancu de Hunedoara (who the Hungarians call John Hunyadi but was Romanian and not Hungarian ethnically).

The next thing to note is that he was not called Dracula. His grandfather (also called Vlad) was given the title Dracul, which means the devil and has nothing to do with dragons (dragon in Romanian is balaur), because of his fighting like a devil against the Turks. Dracula is actually grammatically impossible in Romanian as it would be akin to saying 'the he/she devil'.

The vast majority of the stories upon which Bram Stoker based his fictional vampire were propaganda tales from the Saxons and Magyars who ruled Transylvania (he never actually went to Wallachia or he'd have heard quite different stories) who, being Roman Catholics, were not greatly in favour of an independent Orthodox Romanian state. In addition, his vampiric ideas seem to have been based on the story of the Magyar Countess Bathory who really did bathe in Transylvanian virgins' blood in order to keep herself young.

This is not to say that Vlad Tepes's cruel reputation is undeserved, but he was probably no worse than several other contemporary rulers in this regard. Unlike his cousin Stefan, Vlad wasn't a particularly devout Christian and I'd find it difficult to argue his Orthodoxy. At one point he made a politically motivated conversion to Roman Catholicism believing that this would result in western aid against the Turks. In actual fact, though, this never materialised and his only real ally remained Stefan cel Mare's Moldova. I believe that he later returned to the Orthodox faith and died Orthodox, though it's hard to find any good evidence for this.

Of course, Stefan was an equally staunch opponent of the Hungarian empire and won several victories against Matthias Corvinus, but he never was vilified to the extent Vlad Tepes was. It's probably harder to vilify someone who is not reknowned for cruelty and is reknowned as a pious Christian, particularly if you're a Roman Catholic when the Pope has named your enemy an 'Athlete of Christ'.

Vlad Tepes is considered a national hero in Romania, though he is by no means as well regarded as Stefan cel Mare (nobody is likely to start calling for his glorification). Both rulers are credited with turning fractious countries plagued by civil strife at the hands of the ambitious boieri (nobles) into strong countries that were able to halt the expansion of Islam into Europe. The results they achieved may have been similar but the way in which they achieved them, not to mention the two rulers' characters and faith, were not. Having said that, many Romanians look back on the rules of these two contemporary Voievods (and that of Iancu de Hunedoara in Transylvania) as the golden age of the Romanian principalities. Hope that helps.

James

[Xpycoctomos]

Very interesting. Thanks James!

[Xpycoctomos]

Kolya et al,

Well, I will continue to use flat when speaking English - I may not be British ethnically, but I grew up here, so that's how I speak. Incidentally, even my Romanian wife says flat in English, despite the Romanian word being apartament. I wouldn't have thought it would actually cause confusion - if I had been talking about chips, though, there might be some scope for misunderstanding.

James

Yeah, before I went to spain some years ago, I also would have had no idea what a flat was. We simply never use it in this context. It's either a shredded tire (or... tyre :)) or an adjective but never an apartment. Now it's just like another word in my vocabulary. I like it becuase it's short.

Lorry (spelling?) is another one I would have NEVER understood. I would have said "who?", not "what?" lol. We just call it a truck and if we wish to be more specific, a semi.

I love semantic differences between the English-Speaking countries. It's just really fun.

John

[Xpycoctomos]

His name in English is Stephen the Great and he was Voievod (sort of like Prince, but there's no direct translation in English) of Moldova from 1457-1504. He was the cousin of Vlad Tepes (Voievod of Wallachia and inspiration for Dracula) and defended Moldova against the Ottoman Turks as well as Hungarian, Polish and Tartar invasions. He was a great defender of the Church and dedicated every battle to God, building a Church or monastery in thanks for every one of his nearly 50 victories.
I was told that to decide the location of the Church or Monastery he would shoot out an arrow and wherever it landed would be the site of the next location of the holy place. Is this true or just folklore?

He was given the title 'Athlete of Christ' by the Pope (to my knowledge the only non-Catholic monarch to receive such a title, which goes to show how widely reknowned he was as a devout Christian) for his defence of Christendom but, after seeing the fall of Constantinople and the reluctance of western powers to aid either the Roman Empire or, later, Moldova from the muslims, told his son (on his death bed) to sue for peace with the Turks if they would guarantee religious freedom. This happened and Moldova became an independant suzerain state of the Ottoman Empire, retaining its Orthodox faith. His title in Romanian is 'Dreptcredinciosul Voievod Stefan cel Mare si Sfant', or 'The Right-Believing Prince Stephen the Great and Holy'.

Cool. All I knew was that he was the most important national hero and Saint of Romania (of course I did stay in Suceava for half the time and then just a little ways a way in Iasi so perhaps the excitement about this Saint is more pronounced there. I actually saw where he was buried.

His capital was in Suceava, close to where I worked in Romania and he is my son's patron saint (because I hope he will be inspired to defend his faith to the last also). He was officially glorified by the Holy Synod of the Romanian Church in 1992,

I hadn't realized that he was so recently glorified. The people must have been treating him like a saint for generations though, it would seem. But I don't know. Was this so?

along with his spiritual father, St. Daniel the Hesychast (Sf. Daniil Sihastru), who will be the patron saint of our next child (due on his feast day, 18th December) if it proves to be a boy.

You could always name the baby Danielle or Daniela if it's a girl. :)

Hope that helps.

James


Yeah, and I didn't even know I needed the help! lol Thanks for the interesting info!

John

[Mary of Bethany]

I've always loved reading, and I remember as a child reading some British-English novels, and having to figure out from context what "lorries", "petrol" (not too hard), "flat", "tarmack", "wireless", etc. meant. It was a good education!

I still don't know what "plasticene" is, exactly. Would anybody like to enlighten me?

Mary

[Xpycoctomos]

what's wireless? i suppose I think of a cordless phone or simply a cellphone (since thats what we sometimes call them here).

John

[Mary of Bethany]

Wireless = radio :)

[Xpycoctomos]

ah... very interesting.

[choirfiend]

Plasticine--Modeling clay, the kind which was used in Wallace and Gromit shorts.

[choirfiend]

And plasters are bandaids!

[Mary of Bethany]

And plasters are bandaids!

Yeah, that's another one I remember coming across in an Agatha Christie novel. I think she called them "sticking plasters". Took me awhile to figure that one out.

And thanks for the "plasticene" explanation. I thought it was some form of plastic. I would never have come up with modeling clay!

Mary

[Xpycoctomos]

Wallace and Gromit

By the way, they're coming out with a movie!!!!!

[Kolya]

Yeah, that's another one I remember coming across in an Agatha Christie novel. I think she called them "sticking plasters". Took me awhile to figure that one out.

And thanks for the "plasticene" explanation. I thought it was some form of plastic. I would never have come up with modeling clay!

Mary

John and Mary,
I think we should start an American/British dictionary sticky here, since we seem to have a good trans-Atlantic dialogue going. We British/Commonwealth guys understand "American" English because of Hollywood and books and CNN, but I think you Americans have a tougher time understanding us.;) That was why I threw in the 'Flat' post.

[Mary of Bethany]

Good idea, kolya. I came across another one last night - hosepipe. I suppose it;s just what we would call a (garden) hose, as it was referring to a ban on watering lawns, but I'd never seen it used before.

[Kolya]

Hosepipe = Garden hose (for watering). Yes, that is our common name for it.
Maybe we should speak to Erwin about this to make it common thread for all groups.
There is a similar thread about this at the moment in the CF suggetions forum called 'Isn't Erwin Australian'.

[MariaRegina]

Even the British spelling can drive one batty.

Practising, for example

I find myself getting royally confused over how to spell words once I read a British publication.

Are the Harry Potter books published in American or British English or both?

I don't have the time to read novels since I'm preparing for the GRE and getting ready for the Master's program.

[Marjorie]

The Harry Potter books have American and English editions... a lot of the English slang is kept in American editions but some things that would be completely unintelligible to Americans are changed.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

[Kolya]

Even the British spelling can drive one batty.

Practising, for example

I find myself getting royally confused over how to spell words once I read a British publication.

Are the Harry Potter books published in American or British English or both?

I don't have the time to read novels since I'm preparing for the GRE and getting ready for the Master's program.

It is we who speak the Queen's English who can spell! Blame Mr Webster and his "American Shorthand" for the confusion.;)
Come on, let's speak to Erwin. We must be able to sort some kind of trans-Atlantic solution out.

[Mary of Bethany]

The Harry Potter books have American and English editions... a lot of the English slang is kept in American editions but some things that would be completely unintelligible to Americans are changed.

In IC XC,
Marjorie

I've noticed a few "britishisms" in HP. That's where I came across "hosepipe" last night. There are some others I can't think of right now.

Mary

[MariaRegina]

I've noticed a few "britishisms" in HP. That's where I came across "hosepipe" last night. There are some others I can't think of right now.

Mary

There's practise instead of practice.

And honour instead of honor.

When we say put the bill on the table - we mean we are going to discuss it.

When the British table a bill - discussion is closed.

[Ioan cel Nou]

Wireless = radio :)

Yes, but it's very old fashioned. It's the sort of thing you'll hear people who lived through WWII say.

James

[Kolya]

Wireless = radio
Yes, but it's very old fashioned. It's the sort of thing you'll hear people who lived through WWII say.
James

Yes, makes one think of the old crystal set, with 'cats whisker' antenae and old headphones.:)

[Ioan cel Nou]

I was told that to decide the location of the Church or Monastery he would shoot out an arrow and wherever it landed would be the site of the next location of the holy place. Is this true or just folklore?

This is true. He chose the rough area (usually under the guidance of St. Daniel) went to the top of nearest hill and shot an arrow to let God decide the precise spot. At Putna it stuck into a tree and they still have a slice of wood with the arrow hole in it in the monastery museum.


Cool. All I knew was that he was the most important national hero and Saint of Romania (of course I did stay in Suceava for half the time and then just a little ways a way in Iasi so perhaps the excitement about this Saint is more pronounced there. I actually saw where he was buried.

Ah, so you've been to both Suceava and Putna? Did you see Daniil Sihastru's cell? That's my favourite place in the whole world. You're probably right that both of these saints are more venerated in Moldova than elsewhere (2nd July in Putna is amazing - that's his feast day) but I've seen icons of him in the south, too, and the 500th anniversary of his death last year was a massive national event.

I hadn't realized that he was so recently glorified. The people must have been treating him like a saint for generations though, it would seem. But I don't know. Was this so?

Yes, that's right. It followed the usual Orthodox way of the people venerating him pretty much from the time of his death onwards and the Church taking a very long time to recognise him officially. There's actually a very old icon of him that was painted well before he was officially glorified.

You could always name the baby Danielle or Daniela if it's a girl. :)

Well, we could, but we won't (and if it's a boy it will be Daniil as I don't really care for the sound of Daniel in English). If the next child is a daughter she'll be named Sabina-Ioana. We'd decided that before my son was born. Sabina is my wife's grandmother's name and we both like Ioana. St. Sabina ought to be perfectly Orthodox because she's a fourth century martyr, but she doesn't seem to appear in any Orthodox calendars, so her patron saint would probable be Ioana (Joannah the Myrrh-bearer).

Hope that helps.

James

[Ioan cel Nou]

Yiannis550,

It just occurred to me that what you heard about 'Count Dracula' is true of Vlad Dracul, though not his grandson Vlad Tepes. I was probably a little over-hasty in my reply because 'Count Dracula' was based on Hungarian stories of Vlad Tepes even though the name is clearly derived from Vlad Dracul. I imagine that what you heard about the staunch Orthodoxy of 'Dracula' was actually a reference to the grandfather rather than the grandson.

James

[Xpycoctomos]

James,

I stayed with the family of a friend in Suceava and the Family of another friend in Iasi. We also took a day and went around what SEEMED to be the nothern part of Romania (though surely not the entire northern part by any means) and saw a bunch of monasteries. It was great. I don't remember the names of them except for going to Putna. We stayed in the village there with my friend's boyfriend's uncle (if that isn't generous! housing some american that isn't your friend, nor your nephews, but your nephew's girlfriend's! but they treated me like a friend) and it was fantastic. They had electricity but no running water (note to others, this is what Romania is like on the countryside, but in the city everyone has running water... they just might shut the hot water off from time to time or day to day... but the water still runs lol). There were goats and cows and chickens everywhere (in the streets etc). It was quite an experience. But, I was actually able to stay on the Visitor grounds of the Monastery at Putna for a couple days. They were so hospitable there, the grounds keeper searched me down and gave me an icon of a very important monk of theirs whose name i still have to research. I will scan it another day and see if y'all know who he is. He's deceased ad I saw his grave. I just have a bad memory with names. That grounds keeper (doesn't know English) told one of the people there (who was my age but seemed very contemplative adn who I would not be surprised if he were a novice to be a monk now) to "keep an eye on me" not because he didn't trust me but because he was very curious that there was an American, who wanted to see monasteries... and who was Orthodox! I only found this out later. By the way, for anyone who goes, Romania (even post Iraqi war) is one of the few countries left where we Americans still have a warm welcome for being American.

I wish I could go back. Sorry, I know this thread is for conversions... but it was nice to reminisce.

God bless!

John

[Ioan cel Nou]

James,

I stayed with the family of a friend in Suceava and the Family of another friend in Iasi. We also took a day and went around what SEEMED to be the nothern part of Romania (though surely not the entire northern part by any means) and saw a bunch of monasteries. It was great. I don't remember the names of them except for going to Putna. We stayed in the village there with my friend's boyfriend's uncle (if that isn't generous! housing some american that isn't your friend, nor your nephews, but your nephew's girlfriend's! but they treated me like a friend) and it was fantastic. They had electricity but no running water (note to others, this is what Romania is like on the countryside, but in the city everyone has running water... they just might shut the hot water off from time to time or day to day... but the water still runs lol). There were goats and cows and chickens everywhere (in the streets etc). It was quite an experience. But, I was actually able to stay on the Visitor grounds of the Monastery at Putna for a couple days. They were so hospitable there, the grounds keeper searched me down and gave me an icon of a very important monk of theirs whose name i still have to research. I will scan it another day and see if y'all know who he is. He's deceased ad I saw his grave. I just have a bad memory with names. That grounds keeper (doesn't know English) told one of the people there (who was my age but seemed very contemplative adn who I would not be surprised if he were a novice to be a monk now) to "keep an eye on me" not because he didn't trust me but because he was very curious that there was an American, who wanted to see monasteries... and who was Orthodox! I only found this out later. By the way, for anyone who goes, Romania (even post Iraqi war) is one of the few countries left where we Americans still have a warm welcome for being American.

I wish I could go back. Sorry, I know this thread is for conversions... but it was nice to reminisce.

God bless!

John

Yes, Putna is a wonderful place. Did you see St. Daniel's cell? It's a little way outside the village and looks like this:

http://65.113.70.41/iew/gallery/images/28.jpg

You were lucky being in Suceava and Iasi (did you see Sf. Parascheva's relics, by the way, that's something I want to see) with your running water. In Siret, when I first went there they only had running water at all twice a day for about 30 minutes and no hot water ever. It's got better now, but it still isn't constant. I'm better off when I visit my wife's grandparents in Balinesti (a village, whereas Siret's a large town and former capital of Moldova) because they have their own well.

To get back on topic, though, my road to Orthodoxy really started with a conversation with a monk at the monastery of St. John the New in Suceava. He was an absolutely wonderful man and something about his humility and faith just touched me deeply. Did you ever go to that monastery (it's in the centre of Suceava)? That was the first time I'd ever come across incorruptible relics and I can tell you that was quite a shock for a Lutheran who didn't believe in 'that sort of thing'. That experience probably helped me on my way to the catechumenate more than any book could have done.

James

[Xpycoctomos]

I have to run but I just wanted to confrim that I have gone to see St. Daniel's Cell. It was something else. I saw the comfortable slab of stone he chisled out for himself to sleep on (if I remember correctly) lol.

The other stuff I don't think I saw. When I was in Suceava and Iasi I saw some CHurches but I don't rmemeber even those too well. I do remember a small wooden one my friend took me too in town. It was so beautiful, small and simple. i loved it. It was her favorite too.

John.

[Ioan cel Nou]

I have to run but I just wanted to confrim that I have gone to see St. Daniel's Cell. It was something else. I saw the comfortable slab of stone he chisled out for himself to sleep on (if I remember correctly) lol.


You remember correctly. Was it already in use as a chapel when you were there, or not? It wasn't when I first visited in the '90s, but is now. There's something about being in that tiny cell listening to a monk singing prayers that seems to affect me very strongly. It's almost like St. Daniel's still there with you, which I suppose, in a way, he is.

James

[Petronius]

You remember correctly. Was it already in use as a chapel when you were there, or not? It wasn't when I first visited in the '90s, but is now. There's something about being in that tiny cell listening to a monk singing prayers that seems to affect me very strongly. It's almost like St. Daniel's still there with you, which I suppose, in a way, he is.

James
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[Pyotr]

It's posted on a sticky topic above, but here 'tis again...

I grew up Southern Baptist, but I had had some exposure to the charismatic movement in high school, so ORU was a wonderful thing, I thought, in terms of all the charismatic stuff. I liked the upbeat, energetic thing that was happening...finally, it was all right to be emotional in worship instead of just tolerating dry, stuffy ritual! But after about a semester and a half...well...all of a sudden I was having second thoughts about emotionistic worship. I saw the weird excesses that emotional experiences can drive Christians to. These included falling on the ground a la Benny Hinn (who used to be Orthodox, BTW), barking like dogs, "manifestations" of the "Spirit" like speaking in tongues (nonsensical babbling), "prophetic words" from God (appeals to the law of averages for getting something accurate about a total stranger (either that or wonderful, positive messages that the receiver WANTED to be true) and bizarre mantras we were expected to chant ("MONEEEEEEEEEY COMETH! TO ME! NOW!") No foolin'. It made me realize that this could not be authentic, original, New Testament Christianity -- at which point I realized I didn't even know what original, NT Christianity was. So I started looking into early Christian history towards the end of my freshman year, for two reasons. One, I wanted to compare the spirituality of the early Church with all the prosperity, all-healing-all-the-time, and/or everything-is-all-good-between-me-and-God sprituality that goes on today in American Charismaticism. Two, I wanted, to borrow a Southern Baptist phrase, "to get back to the New Testament Church."

So I looked at the earliest documents outside the Bible in order to get some context going...specifically, I read the Apostolic Fathers (i.e., Clement of Rome, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp), followed by Ireneaus, Cyprian, Tertullian, Origen. To make a long story VERY short, I got more than I bargained for. Not only did I quickly find condemnations of the things that went on at ORU (which was pretty much Montanism revisited), I found my own Baptist upbringing being uprooted by things like strictly liturgical worship, an elevated role for Mary, prayers for the dead and to the saints, confession to a priest, the Eucharist being the actual body/blood of Christ, baptismal regeneration, the absence of "Eternal Security," and adamant anti-denominationalism.

So I couldn't stay were I had been. I went from Episcopalian masses to Roman Catholic masses, to see what they had to say. I loved the worship; this was my first taste of apostolic Christian worship, or "heaven on earth," as it's been called. Due to things I was finding in the Fathers (and things I wasn't finding), I stopped going to masses and attended an Eastern Orthodox liturgy at St. Antony's Antiochian Orthodox Church. Hated it the first time I went; much preferred the Western confessions' worship. Nevertheless, after a while I was amazed to see such similarity in doctrine between what the early Church said, what Scripture said in light of her interpretation, and what this Orthodox priest was saying. Several liturgies (which began to grow on me), books, prayers, questions, answers, and all-nighters later (I did so much research on this that my studies suffered!), I decided to become a catechumen.

Something was happening at the time at ORU, unbeknownst to me, in terms of Orthodoxy; I found out that I was not the only one to be moving in on this train of thought. I was shocked (yet again) to find ORU grads already in St. Antony's ! More than that, there were a few folks here on campus who were beginning to ask similar questions! And more that that, the priest himself was an alum from ORU, and said that back in the late 70s or early 80s, when he was in seminary there, he and about 20 other people converted to Orthodoxy (about 6 of whom became priests). Something similar apparently started up again, as I can think of about 30 to 40 other people from ORU right off the top of my head that either have become Orthodox already or are seriously considering becoming so.

I don't know if the faculty at ORU really knew what to do with all this; letters were circulated, professors started bringing it up in classes (some of which had nothing to do with theology!) even the president of the university mentioned during the chapel service that ORU was in complete agreement with the early church Fathers! Why I would want to look to the past was lost on many there (My RA one year actually said I was crazy to look to the past for my belief). I blame what I call the "chosen generation syndrome" for this. This horrible mindset is VERY attractive to teenagers and young adults, and even to some adults who haven't grown up yet! The idea, basically, is that our parents' generation has dropped the ball (along with that of our grandparents, and so on) regarding taking Christ to the nations, bringing healing and a change to the political climate of the US, but never fear, because God is doing A NEW THING, which (of course), we were on the front lines of! WE were the ones who would CHANGE IT ALL, and the power of God would be evident in this. Which basically gave us license, in our eyes, to let happen whatever we wanted or deemed necessary, because we were on the verge of some "breakthrough" that would require something the world had NEVER SEEN BEFORE--certainly nothing a 2,000-year-old liturgical, man-made religion could provide. So we were left to either swallow what they gave us or suffer the guilt trips of "Don't touch God's annointed!" if we questioned what someone said in chapel. No wonder we all left. No wonder ORU is now jokingly dubbed the "St. Vlad's of the South"; I think more Orthodox come out of there than any other school that's not an Orthodox seminary than any other school in the country.

So there y'go.

[Xpycoctomos]

You remember correctly. Was it already in use as a chapel when you were there, or not? It wasn't when I first visited in the '90s, but is now. There's something about being in that tiny cell listening to a monk singing prayers that seems to affect me very strongly. It's almost like St. Daniel's still there with you, which I suppose, in a way, he is.

James

Hmmm... not sure. When I went it was locked (but you could see through the door as you know. But I don't know if it was being used as a chapel at that time. I was there the summer of 2002 if that tells you anything. Let me know.

John

[Ioan cel Nou]

Hmmm... not sure. When I went it was locked (but you could see through the door as you know. But I don't know if it was being used as a chapel at that time. I was there the summer of 2002 if that tells you anything. Let me know.

John

Yes, I think it probably was. When I first visited there was no door or window frame and it was never closed. Now, if you're unlucky you might find that it's closed up as they only seem to open it when there is a monk to look after it - or a novice at least.

James

[Kolya]

My Conversion – Part II



I had become non-denominational after becoming dissatisfied with my previous church, and was looking around for a new home. But in the meantime, I had already been attending DL at the Russian OC (Still in a house at that time) before I left my previous church. This was a result of my wife's 'Russian Spirit', and because she wanted to meet Russian's to improve her conversational skills. I was participating and observing, but at the time I was not aware of their doctrines, and to tell the truth, they seemed to be too ‘Catholic’ for me. J I was looking for the ‘Apostolic Church’, and I did not even know I was standing in it!

Anyhow, time went by, about 18 months, and I tried ‘Home Church’ and ‘Cell Church’, but they on the other hand seemed too ‘charismatic’ for me. In the meantime, the new Russian Orthodox Temple had been built (The one in my avatar), and my wife informed me she wanted to join them. So she started as a catechumen. I still attended with her, as I had to drive her over there due to her disability. I still was not interested in this ‘Catholic’ church though.

Then one day in the church parking lot, I saw a bumper-sticker on a car that said “Orthodoxy – the same today as in AD33!” That made me do a double take, and I asked myself, “can this be true?”

For the first time I started doing the research, and the digging. I did not read any of the books recommended on the Boards here. All I had was a Catechism, and I went through the doctrines and beliefs. One by one, I accepted them, as they concurred with the bible verses supplied. (I was still on the Sola Scriptura ride) I knew very well about the icons and prayers to the Saints going on, but I pushed that to one side, and tried not to think about them, but concerned myself with the ‘Theology of Orthodoxy’.

All was well and good, but there came a point where I was confronted with Holy Tradition, and there I got stuck. I could not reconcile myself to it. I prayed for guidance, but no answers came, until, one day I was standing in DL again. I stood there, the choir music and the Liturgy and prayers flowed around me. I looked at all the Icons, and I wondered to myself still, “Is this God’s True Church?” I was very smug with my “Theological Knowledge”. I looked up into the dome above my head, and a voice in my head that I recognized that had spoken to me before said, “Don’t think you know everything, because you know NOTHING!”

That shook me. I knew Who had spoken. I determined then to open my mind, and let Him speak to me. From that moment, my life changed. I was still skeptical, but I allowed the Spirit to direct me. And I prayed even harder. I began to see things in scripture, and the Church Fathers that I had not noticed before. I joined the catechumen class, and listened, and listened.

My last barrier was the Theotokos. I could believe the doctrine of the Mother of God. That made sense, but praying to her in praise was so difficult for me, I still held back.

One day the Voice said to me “Just try, just do it, and see what happens.” I opened my Jordanville Prayer Book, and started to pray the Prayers there. That in itself was at first a strange thing to do, praying out of a book. But I discovered that there is Power in those prayers. They were written by pious men, and they work! Issues that had been a problem in my life before, now became non issues. My habits, and tastes in music and entertainment changed. I became a ‘new person’. I am still sinful old me, but I am aware of my weaknesses, and I gave them up to the Lord to take care of for me, and He does.

I only began to read the convert stories and “The Orthodox Way” after I became an Orthodox Christian, and now they have meaning. If there is anyone out there struggling to understand this “Orthodox Way”, I have been where you are now, and struggled with the same issues you do.

My advice is, take your time. Let God work slowly and thoroughly in your heart. Ponder and pray over each issue. Step back a while, and look where you are, and where you came from. You will be surprised at what you find. I can’t stress enough, take your time, take your time, take your time! And also, stay in touch with the Priest in your area. He is going to become one of the most important people in your life. He will be your guide and counselor, and your friend.

Also remember, this Church has withstood the ‘hates and gates’ of Hades, and has come through the centuries triumphant. As individuals, we will always make mistakes, even the clergy do. But the Church as the Whole, is still on the straight and narrow way that Christ ordained us to walk.

I ask your forgiveness if this has been a ramble, but I hope that it will encourage someone out there who is still struggling to understand Orthodoxy not to give up. God will guide you into all Truth.

In IC XC
Kolya

[Petronius]

Also remember, this Church has withstood the ‘hates and gates’ of Hades, and has come through the centuries triumphant. As individuals, we will always make mistakes, even the clergy do. But the Church as the Whole, is still on the straight and narrow way that Christ ordained us to walk.

I ask your forgiveness if this has been a ramble, but I hope that it will encourage someone out there who is still struggling to understand Orthodoxy not to give up. God will guide you into all Truth.

Remarkable ! All these conversions, when no missionary stops you on streets or is knocking at your door and then begins to offer and promise various "materials" are the wonders / miracles of our days as important as it was 100, 500, 1000 or 2000 years ago and it is proof of the Holy Spirit's working among people.

Be blessed !

[Kolya]

Remarkable ! All these conversions, when no missionary stops you on streets or is knocking at your door and then begins to offer and promise various "materials" are the wonders / miracles of our days as important as it was 100, 500, 1000 or 2000 years ago and it is proof of the Holy Spirit's working among people.

Be blessed !

Thank you kind sir! The Holy Spirit is indeed working on the hearts of many.
Your humble servant in Christ
IC XC
Kolya

[Constantine82]

Its So Great to see so many other people who converted to orthodoxy becides myself. I had offically bacame Orthodox on pentecost of this year . It was exciting and fun especally because most of the church was making a fuss over my Chrismation at the fellowship hour (Partailly because the priest brought up my name in the Sermon because he was talking about doing stuff such as charity and working for the church and i Just so happen work on the church website ) .Lol and one woman said its so nice to see an Italian converting to orthodoxy ... guess she didn't think before she talked :P

[contriteheart]

Well, I'm not Orthodox myself - I'm kind of an inquiring guest who hangs out in TAW a lot of the time, but welcome to TAW, Constantine82!!! :wave:

With love in Christ,
Grace

[pjw]

i am not orthodox, but am very interested in it. i don't have a problem with reverent commemoration of the lives of deceased saints, but i am not persuaded that it is entirely biblical to pray to them. i don't have a problem with icons of the saints and the virgin Mary, but i do have a problem with icons of Christ. these are probably the two major things that are keeping me from orthodoxy, along with prayers for the dead. i know that prayers to the saints and for the dead are only encouraged, not commanded, but they are included in the liturgy, so they would be unavoidable (unless i could find a church that used st. james' liturgy). the best thing about orthodoxy is the freedom that is allowed. you are not tied down to a particular doctrine of the sacraments, or salvation, or anything of the sort. i am a great admirer of Cyril I Lucaris, a patriarch of alexandria and constantinople during the 1600's. he dared to stand up for what he believed to be true, and it was possible within the orthodox church, without going outside the bounds of the Bible, the Creed, and the 7 councils.
anyway, that's my two-cents worth.

[xristos.anesti]

So, you do not object praying for the dead/intercession of the heavenly Church, but you see it as matter of discipline - not commanded and not doctrine? And you have a problem with Iconography of Lord!?

Is this fair to say?

Why don't you make you contras, quieries and problems formulated into a separate thread, with your views and observations, beliefs and theories so we can all have a big BBQ and discuss the issues.

Welcome to TAW.

Many years, mate!

[pjw]

ummm.
i do object to praying for the dead, and i do object to asking angels and departed saints for intercession, and i do object to pictures of Jesus. however, apart from the last one, I don't believe that there is any rule in orthodoxy saying that it is official doctrine. therefore I can still be orthodox and not say prayers to the saints and for the dead?
however, as prayers for the dead and to the saints are included in the two major liturgies, I would only be comfortable in an Orthodox church that used the liturgy of St. James, which does not include these things (well, as far as I know anyway).
as i was saying, the good thing about orthodoxy is that it allows each person to hold their own doctrinal views, as long as these are in basic accordance with Scripture, the Creed, and the 7 councils (e.g. Cyril Lucaris)

[Kolya]

ummm.
as i was saying, the good thing about orthodoxy is that it allows each person to hold their own doctrinal views, as long as these are in basic accordance with Scripture, the Creed, and the 7 councils (e.g. Cyril Lucaris)

The 7th council was convened particularly to discuss the issue of icon veneration, as you probably know. At that council ALL icons were approved, includind depicting God Incarnate, Christ!

[Xpycoctomos]

PJW... How did you decide on the ultimate list of the Bible, the Creed and the Eccumenical Councils (which... actually, hold firm to the belief that "pictures of Jesus" are essential to our faith) as seemingly infallible sources from which to live. As Orthodox, it is not a simple list of Holy sources.. it is the Source God gave us... the Pillar and Ground of Truth: The Church. It is a living and dynamic Church and we are to live from and learn from the Church. It is not to say that every word uttered by this or that bishop or lay person is to be respected as the Word of God... but those things that have entered and defined the mindset of the Church (praying to Saints, praying for our loved ones (and enemies) who have passed on (simply because we... believe in prayer and it is what we are called to do: love one another) and pondering pictures of Jesus and the Saints who have fought before us... THESE things are PART of the Church. You cannot look at the Othodox Church as a trivial list of the essntials and non-essentials. You gotta live it to the best of your ability. Sometimes I am thankful that the OC does not have a codified catechism because it forces one to explore and LIVE the Church to learn about Her.... not simply fall under the delusion that if he or she follows this list of essentials and reads this and that that they are somehow even the least bit cognicint (spelling?) of what it means to be Orthodox.

In all sincerity, God bless you on your journey and I am happy that you are looking at Orthodoxy or at least learning from it.

In Christ,

John

[ElenaS]

I found this site yesterday and after reading a good number of them, i wanted to say thank you to all of you for sharing. I'm not yet officially Orthodox, but I've been pulled in that direction for a few years now. I could go into more detail (and maybe I will later), but for now I just wanted to say hello and thank all of you for the encouragement your posts gave me.

[Kolya]

I found this site yesterday and after reading a good number of them, i wanted to say thank you to all of you for sharing. I'm not yet officially Orthodox, but I've been pulled in that direction for a few years now. I could go into more detail (and maybe I will later), but for now I just wanted to say hello and thank all of you for the encouragement your posts gave me.

WELCOME TO TAW ELENA!!!:clap:
And we look forward to more posts.
Many years to you, and may God direct you in your search.
Kolya

[Dust and Ashes]

I found this site yesterday and after reading a good number of them, i wanted to say thank you to all of you for sharing. I'm not yet officially Orthodox, but I've been pulled in that direction for a few years now. I could go into more detail (and maybe I will later), but for now I just wanted to say hello and thank all of you for the encouragement your posts gave me.

Welcome to TAW! :hug:

[pjw]

yes, i know that the 7th council commanded icons of christ, i was just making the point that outside of the direct teachings of the bible, the 7 councils, and the creed, i would not be BOUND to maintain any other orthodox doctrines. i think the distinction needs to be made between the teaching of a majority of theologians at a certain point in time, and the official doctrine of the orthodox church. for example, no official doctrine has ever been formulated as to the nature of Christ's presence in the eucharist, simply leaving it as a mystery. however, different theologians have adopted different viewpoints about the nature of this