Question regarding inter-denomination (JW) relationship

[DanielT]

I've recently gotten to know a girl and we've both admitted that we very much like each other. We've become extremely close now - girlfriend and boyfriend. The other night she told me that her parents are JW's, and that she has been brought up as one - although she hasn't been baptised or anything of that sort. She says she 'bends the rules' - she doesn't mind celebrating birthdays etc. I also know she's not a 'heavy' JW herself as she doesn't attend Kingdom Halls (I think that's what they refer to them as?) or anything of that sort either. She has had boyfriends before, who were not JW, so she obviously doesn't have a problem with it personally - but do I? There are still things that show she does have a feeling for her faith - I asked if she would refuse a blood transfusion, for example, and she said yes.

I've been brought up as a Baptist, although I, like her, have never been baptised. I don't preach, but when someone attacks my faith in any way I'm very defiant when it comes to what I believe in. Like her, I am not a virgin, yet have never married.

It's strange that when she told me, I wasn't terribly troubled, but since then it's been at the back of my mind and, for the first time in many years, I've felt the need to talk to fellow Baptists about relationships... I've already emailed my stepmum asking her for my old pastor's email address (I don't attend church in the UK, my home church is in NZ and I find the UK churches not to my taste at all, although I have trialed many - I'd prefer not to go into that but to stay on the main topic though, at least in this thread, please).

She told her Mum that I was a Christian and apparently her Mum was rather pleased. I'm really not sure where they stand on the issue and I'm not entirely sure on where I stand either. I know that she, herself, respects where I am and accepts it.

Still, there are some things that I struggle with. I know that I need to talk to her further about this. I'm just not sure how. I don't know exactly where I stand. I've known of some people who are able to wed people of other denominations and even other religions, purely because they love each other, and have successfully maintained seperate religions and so forth. I've never been the most intense and evangelistic Christian, but I am Christian nonetheless. Being a Baptist, I know that we say that we should look to the Bible and only to the Bible, and interpret it as we wish... and maybe she is just having her own interpretation. But it's still something I'm uncertain with. I find it ironic that someone who has more in common with my beliefs - ie, she believes in God - than my previous atheist girlfriends is someone that I struggle more with than them. It's strange that it's harder to deal with other interpretations of Christianity than it is to deal with people who don't believe it at all.

I find it such a cruel world, sometimes, when I consider that so many people in the world only have a faith because that is the one they grew up with. I wonder how many people in the world had their faith decided by where they grew up. It seems a person of the stongest faith will only ever have one. It's at times like these that I wish there was but one Christian denomination. But, sadly, time allows for so many.

But anyway. I'm babbling. Please, let me know what you think.

[HumbleMan]

Welcome to CF, Daniel!

My thoughts on this (and mine only) are that it is extremely hard for people who worship two different Gods to live together in harmony. And I do think the JW's do worship a false God. I think the two of you will have to make a decision, come together in one faith or go seperate ways.

If she leaves the JW, she will be shunned by her family. If what I've learned is right, they consider anyone who leaves apostate.

Right now, pray about this. Talk about long term plans. And pray again.

Please keep posting here. We're always happy to have new people come in and join the fun.

[DanielT]

I have done a bit of research on the "defellowship" thing that they do - I think that it only applies to those who have been baptised into their faith. But yeah, that is definitely something I'll have to talk to her about, too. Looks like another long phonecall tonight.. I'm just sort-of scared. She's amazing, I guess I never really thought too much on it until today.

[HumbleMan]

I wish you well tonight. How long have you known her?

[DanielT]

I've known her for about a year, possibly more, as a relatively-close friend... someone I talk to about life and she talks back to me about hers, mostly on the phone after meeting originally online. After meeting in person, we just clicked - that would be about a month ago. We decided to meet up again a couple more times, because I'm not the kind who likes to rush. Just on Saturday we became girlfriend/boyfriend, and have talked about religion a couple of times. She was incredibly scared to tell me about her parents being JW, let alone that she follows the same beliefs, even if not as strictly.

I've just never been in this situation before, since all of my past girlfriends have generally believed in God but not gone to church or anything, and it's never been a big issue. But I guess with JW, since they have a more distant faith, it's a different story. I can handle things like her not wanting blood transfusions - it's more things like "Jesus = Michael, not God" and so on that tends to bother me.

She's not a girl who has had the easiest life - most of her boyfriends have been abusive and such, and I want to show her a better life with a stable boyfriend. But typical, there's always a complication! At least I found it before it found me.

[HumbleMan]

It's a noble thing to want to make life better for someone you love. But, unless she is willing to leave the JW behind for good, you're going to have trouble. Especially if you are strengthening your walk with God.

Tell her you can get past the transfusion thing- that's just a conviction on her part. But God is God, and Christ is His Word, and that is the foundation of your faith.

Who knows, if her parents are like her, maybe you can deliver the whole family.

I'll keep you in my prayers tonight, and ask God to reveal His intent to the both of you.

[DanielT]

As much as I'd love to win favour of people here, I won't lie - I can't see myself converting a family of JW's! I am not a completely educated Christian, I am still young (22) and I struggle with the bible and interpretations a lot, probably too much to preach in any real way.

Ever since I finally took a step back from being a "brought-up-Christian" to being a "Christian-by-decision" when I was around 12-17 (I can't remember the exact age), I've always made a point to not pretend that any one person knows how to interpret the Bible, and that I should believe what I read in the Bible, and if there are things that I am unsure on, then I accept that people will interpret them differently and if I can understand without fault why people will believe either of two different interpretations, then I won't let myself be dragged to any decision and will accept that there are some things that no human can tell me, and that I may never know until I get to Heaven.

All of this has made me read up on the Trinity, of course, since they say Jesus is Michael, the archangel. After reading on the Trinity and trying to grasp just how it works, I'm thinking that I can't, and can only accept that this is yet another thing that I shall not pretend to know based on the preachings of any human. I read understandable arguments for and against all sorts of interpretations of the Trinity and they all seem to spell it out to me: "Tehre's nothing concrete, so I won't know just yet." Having said that, I still believe that Jesus is my Lord and Saviour, and that my prayers to him are to God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I see the belief that Jesus is Michael as a possibility based on interpretation, but it is too much of an assumption for me to agree with. It's like saying because a general is a "chief" that he is the "only chief" - despite there being many generals in an army.

I guess this will be yet another of those times in my life where I spend a lot of time learning about God.

Sorry if I seem to be rambling, by the way - I have a habit of typing exactly how I think my words.

[Dondi]

I assume you know about the unequally yoked verse in 2 Corinthians 6:14 "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?".

While your friend might not be an "unbeliever", as she does believe in God within the paradigm of her religion, the beliefs of the JW's differ enough that I would use caution in establishing a relationship with her. Some have difficulties just marrying into other legitamate Christian denominations. Just a warning.

If you do try to speak her concerning differences in your faiths, I would take it slllloooowww. Afterall, no one wants to admit that they might be wrong. First and foremost, pray that the Holy Spirit will tug at her heart, draw her to God, and reveal the truth to her. Rather than argue over JW doctrine, emphasize a realtionship with the Lord Jesus Christ. Share with her your testimony. Maybe show her the simple plan of salvation (Roman's Road or similiar). She at least needs to know and understand the basics of salvation. Ask her if she ever received Christ as Savior, but don't push it. Just make the opportunity available.

If you do end up talking about the differences in faiths, do not get into arguements over doctrine. You will end up pushing her away.

Above all, let her know God loves her. then show her that love for doing things unselfishly for her and her family. By our love they will see that He lives.

[Dmckay]

You need to ask yourself 2 questions. First, you say that you are a Baptist, by birth?, your family was Baptist when you were born and that was how you were raised? Or have you personally acknowledged you need for salvation as a sinner and surrendered your Life to the Lord Jesus Christ, followed His command to be baptized as an outward sign of your new birth "in Christ", and united with a local Baptist Church for discipleship, training and service?

If this isn't answered in the affirmative then you aren't a Christian, much less a Baptist, and the whole question you pose is academic. You are both unsaved and can do what ever your head and heart tell you to do.

BUT, if you are a saved, committed believer in your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, then the question that you have to address your attention to is found in the words of Paul, the Apostle in Corinthians "14Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?"

As a Baptist Pastor I would refuse to agree to perform a wedding ceremony for the two of you.

[Dondi]

You need to ask yourself 2 questions. First, you say that you are a Baptist, by birth?, your family was Baptist when you were born and that was how you were raised? Or have you personally acknowledged you need for salvation as a sinner and surrendered your Life to the Lord Jesus Christ, followed His command to be baptized as an outward sign of your new birth "in Christ", and united with a local Baptist Church for discipleship, training and service?

If this isn't answered in the affirmative then you aren't a Christian, much less a Baptist, and the whole question you pose is academic. You are both unsaved and can do what ever your head and heart tell you to do.

BUT, if you are a saved, committed believer in your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, then the question that you have to address your attention to is found in the words of Paul, the Apostle in Corinthians "14Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever?"

As a Baptist Pastor I would refuse to agree to perform a wedding ceremony for the two of you.

I hope you're not inferring that one needs to do all this to be saved. Faith in Christ alone is enough.

[DanielT]

Just a break in a phonecall to her right now - she's not baptised and does not intend to be so.

As for myself, I am a Christian and am still learning exactly where my ties lie. I was raised as a Baptist however in general, I follow no man's personal interpretation of the Bible but my own. I believe in the Lord Jesus as the Son of God who died for my sins, and yes, I am going to Heaven.

To say that I am not a Christian because I am not officially tied to a Baptist church could be seen as rather offensive, you know. I'm not that bothered though, as I said - I only believe what I have come to know, and that is mostly by reading the bible and researching all sorts of interpretations and then deciding on whether there truely is enough for me to make a decision or whether it is something I simply cannot grasp (a la the Trinity).

I'm learning, yes, and I will have much to learn as I grow older, but I am most certainly a Christian.

[General_Peanut]

My personal view on the matter is, when me and my girlfriend (ex now) were talking about getting more serious (possibly marriage) we discussed our faith....she is Southern baptist like me and attends the same chuech as me, but there were issues that we differed on and it eventually led to our parting of ways (though we are still really good friends). i say that for this reason i think it is really tough to have a realtionship with someone who has different beleifss than your own no matter hwo minor or major the beleif is.

As much as I'd love to win favour of people here, I won't lie - I can't see myself converting a family of JW's! I am not a completely educated Christian, I am still young (22) and I struggle with the bible and interpretations a lot, probably too much to preach in any real way.

I mean this as a word of encouragement...when leading people to christ all we have to do is be there, God will provide the words. he used many men who thought they couldnt do it, I.e Moses.

I will pray for you and your situation.

[MikeMcK]

I've recently gotten to know a girl and we've both admitted that we very much like each other. We've become extremely close now - girlfriend and boyfriend. The other night she told me that her parents are JW's, and that she has been brought up as one - although she hasn't been baptised or anything of that sort. She says she 'bends the rules' - she doesn't mind celebrating birthdays etc. I also know she's not a 'heavy' JW herself as she doesn't attend Kingdom Halls (I think that's what they refer to them as?) or anything of that sort either. She has had boyfriends before, who were not JW, so she obviously doesn't have a problem with it personally - but do I? There are still things that show she does have a feeling for her faith - I asked if she would refuse a blood transfusion, for example, and she said yes.

I've been brought up as a Baptist, although I, like her, have never been baptised. I don't preach, but when someone attacks my faith in any way I'm very defiant when it comes to what I believe in. Like her, I am not a virgin, yet have never married.

It's strange that when she told me, I wasn't terribly troubled, but since then it's been at the back of my mind and, for the first time in many years, I've felt the need to talk to fellow Baptists about relationships... I've already emailed my stepmum asking her for my old pastor's email address (I don't attend church in the UK, my home church is in NZ and I find the UK churches not to my taste at all, although I have trialed many - I'd prefer not to go into that but to stay on the main topic though, at least in this thread, please).

She told her Mum that I was a Christian and apparently her Mum was rather pleased. I'm really not sure where they stand on the issue and I'm not entirely sure on where I stand either. I know that she, herself, respects where I am and accepts it.

Still, there are some things that I struggle with. I know that I need to talk to her further about this. I'm just not sure how. I don't know exactly where I stand. I've known of some people who are able to wed people of other denominations and even other religions, purely because they love each other, and have successfully maintained seperate religions and so forth. I've never been the most intense and evangelistic Christian, but I am Christian nonetheless. Being a Baptist, I know that we say that we should look to the Bible and only to the Bible, and interpret it as we wish... and maybe she is just having her own interpretation. But it's still something I'm uncertain with. I find it ironic that someone who has more in common with my beliefs - ie, she believes in God - than my previous atheist girlfriends is someone that I struggle more with than them. It's strange that it's harder to deal with other interpretations of Christianity than it is to deal with people who don't believe it at all.

I find it such a cruel world, sometimes, when I consider that so many people in the world only have a faith because that is the one they grew up with. I wonder how many people in the world had their faith decided by where they grew up. It seems a person of the stongest faith will only ever have one. It's at times like these that I wish there was but one Christian denomination. But, sadly, time allows for so many.

But anyway. I'm babbling. Please, let me know what you think.

Daniel, it sounds like you've found yourself a very nice girl.

Now for the bad part.

Anytime a Christian dates a non-Christian, I think they're really just asking for trouble.

For all of their talk about God and Jesus, they don't know Jesus. They follow a much different Jesus than the Jesus of the Bible.

If you were to continue, I think it would probably do more damage to your faith than good to hers.

The Bible warns us over and over again not to mix with other faiths in this way. The reason is because it's a lot easier for us to follow their way of thinking than it is for them to convert to ours.

In cases like this, sometimes it's just best to bite the bullet and move on.

[arunma]

Hi Daniel. I read your post, and I think it was a very good idea for you to get outside opinions on this. I doubt that you're looking for a "yes" or "no" answer. So I will only say this: historically, the doctrine of Christ's divinity is one on which Christians have never compromised. Even the heretics in the early church, from the Marcionites to the Arians to the monophysitists, believed that Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God. Therefore, a Christian who rejects Christ's divinity is no Christian at all.

I say this not to judge your girlfriend, but because I know that Jehovah's Witnesses reject Christ's divinity. I've never met your girlfriend, and I have no idea what she believes. Maybe she does accept Christ's divinity, but calls herself a Jehovah's Witness merely for family loyalty. In the Bible, the prophets and Apostles tell us not to marry non-Christians. It says,
Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? (2 Corinthians 6:14)
And Moses says this about those who do not worship the Triune God,
When the LORD your God brings you into the land that you are entering to take possession of it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites, the Girgashites, the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites, seven nations more numerous and mightier than yourselves, and when the LORD your God gives them over to you, and you defeat them, then you must devote them to complete destruction. You shall make no covenant with them and show no mercy to them. You shall not intermarry with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons, for they would turn away your sons from following me, to serve other gods. Then the anger of the LORD would be kindled against you, and he would destroy you quickly. (Deuteronomy 7:1-4)
God's word does not put many restrictions on marriage. Neither race nor economic class nor social status are barriers in Christian marriage, but a distinct prohibition on interfaith marriage is taught. This should testify to the importance of marrying a Christian spouse.

Ultimately, denominational labels are unimportant. What matters is whether or not one's prospective spouse trusts in Christ for her salvation. In your original post, I sensed that you describe your girlfriend in terms of what she does not believe. You pointed out that she celebrates birthdays and does not attend Kingdom Hall. That is certainly a start, but the Bible doesn't tell us to marry "un-Jehovah's Witnesses," it tells us to marry Christians. Even if she disbelieved in the entire JW religion, but was an atheist, it would be no better. The question you must ask both yourself and her is whether or not she trusts in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of her sins. The belief in Christ's divinity is implicit. Thus, I do not give you any specific instruction. But I hope and pray that what I've said will help you to make a decision in accordance with God's will (whatever his will may be in this matter).

[TheUltimateWarrior]

JW's are not Christians, you, as a Christian, should not date one.

Dating a JW is no differant than dating a Mormon or Muslim or Hundu. Be careful Brother. I have been in this situation. Its best to cut and run early.

[JPPT1974]

Sometimes JW people come to my door and sell
Bibles and though they do mean well
True but sadly, they aren't Christians
When they try to sell me, they try to act like salespeople
As I explain politely but firmly that I am a Christian
Raised a Southern Baptist and say thanks but no thanks!

[Dmckay]

I hope you're not inferring that one needs to do all this to be saved. Faith in Christ alone is enough.
No, I am not saying that all of this is necessary for salvation. I brought it up merely to determine where the young man is coming from with regards to his faith. Since he he showing a Baptist Icon and asking the question on a Baptist/Anabaptist forum.

When I do pre-marital counseling one of the first things that I access is the Spiritual condition of both parties and their goals for their lives, marriage and relationship with Christ. Unless they are on the same page Spiritually the relationship is starting out asking for trouble. That is, unless neither party cares about their relationship with G-d.

[Flynmonkie]

I mean this as a word of encouragement...when leading people to christ all we have to do is be there, God will provide the words. He used many men who thought they couldnt do it, I.e Moses.

I will pray for you and your situation.
This is a very good opinion!:thumbsup:

My thoughts are if this woman is actively seeking God, He might have very well brought you into her life for a reason. Now, one thing I do not know is if to question her "salvation" by stating if she is or is not a Christian (Last time I checked JW's do believe in Christ, but other issues negate the thought He is God)

I was a Christian that never understood that fact until two years ago! Jesus means: God with us, amongst other scripture. However, I still believed in Christ being Gods son, just never put it together.

My advice to you on this one is to start your studies and get a good foundation of where you see that God wants you. My advice? Pray about it, asking God. To me, seeking God, without understanding Christ fully, does not necessarily make one an unbeliever. IMHCO

We are not all on the same path with the same stage of growth in our walks. In fact, there are many different routes to get to the same place. We all learn and grow at different levels (sanctification process) The verse I have posted in my signature is something I truly believe, no matter your question, Call unto Him and He will answer you and show you great and mighty things. I do believe that God keeps His promises, if you ask for knowledge on a subject, and you prepare yourself to hear, through prayer and study, you will understand your answer. That is where it all starts, learning how to have a personal intimate relationship with God. It seems that the best thing for you to do is start to study. You cannot make choices without knowledge of your own. You sound very much like many I know, you want to make up your own mind. This is a very good quality! Because you realize you “Don’t” know everything! The best mindset to be in to keep you open! (Of course I think it is important that you understand Gods promises for sure, there are some things you do need to know, starting with what I just explained to you) You will know in your heart what is the right thing to do for you. But I certainly would not discount the whole thing because she has been raised in this manner, yes it might be a hurdle, but I do not believe that just because they are JWs’, they don't believe in God, I rather think they are missing out on a fuller relationship with Him, by understanding. IMHCO :)

[Flynmonkie]

:scratch: Right after I posted the earlier post before this one, a friend sent a question regarding a site on something else we have been working on. When I went to the page, right away I noticed a link to this page regarding JWs' and Christ. I am not sure if it helps you, but for some reason it appeared out of nowhere, it might help you in your own understanding -- or even help in your explanation? I am not sure. It seems very clear and to the point. I thought it couldn't hurt to post it for you :)


Proving the Deity of Christ to Jehovah's Witnesses (http://www.geocities.com/benwebb.geo/trin.html)

[DanielT]

When I called back after the break in that phonecall, her mum picked up and decided to talk to me about what they believe, so I could get a better understanding of things. She treated it as though I knew nothing of Christianity for a while, so repeated a lot of stuff I already knew, and brought up a few things that were different, but as I've said earlier (and I did say rather matter-of-factly to her), I don't make any decision based on word of mouth - but it was nice to get a better understanding of their beliefs, although she was obviously trying to get a thousand words into a hundred (started with Genesis and everything, but didn't have much time as my girlfriend was apparently stabbing her with her finger!). Once my girlfriend was back on the phone, we talked a bit more. There are a few things I'm yet to get a full understanding on when it comes to what she believes, particularly with regards to how she views Jesus. Apparently she does pray to Jesus and does think of him as the Son of God, but also thinks of him as Michael the archangel being one and the same, etc... I told her quite clearly that such a belief seems to me to be based on a poor assumption and thus I can never believe it, again she accepted that.

She definitely sees Christ as her saviour, though, and believes that he died for our sins, etc. Just how she regards his divinity is something I'm not 100% sure on. She seems to regard him as sort of a second-in-command in God's kingdom, something like that anyway. It really is difficult for me because I've read over a debate in these forums on how the Trinity works, and I do believe that there is nothing that states exactly how it does work... it seems to me to be all rather vague, which means I can understand why some people believe it is there and some believe it is not. I find myself unable to draw to either conclusion. How can I? Unless I have some sign from God, I can't understand how a denomination or faith can draw such a massive conclusion based on nothing but interpretation. Is it possible for a faith to admit that they honestly do not know whether something is for sure? Is it impossible that the Bible might actually not let us know exactly how something works, that the Bible may just have not gone into that area, and that we may just simply not know? Do I have to make a decision on how the trinity does or does not work? These things trouble me. I don't like making a decision because someone interpeted something some way told me to believe it too. From what I've read, there are scriptures supporting both theories and for me, I'm unable to believe either.

I still don't believe Jesus is Michael... but I do wonder just how important that matter is, so long as the person believes that Jesus is the Son of God, died for our sins, and is the one we pray to, the one who is with God. Is the rest of the matter not just words and interpretations? Is believing the things I just mentioned not enough? These are the things that I leave myself wondering.

This is becoming more of a question of what I believe now than it is a problem in our relationship. The discussions I've had with her girlfriend are troubling her in that she thinks I'm going to leave her, however for myself they are nothing but my first real delve into how God works for the first time in many years.

Oh, and for what it's worth, she says she has no intention of getting baptised (as a JW), and if she does, it won't be for many years to come. In that way, I suppose she is not a Jehovah's Witness and in some ways you may not see me as a Baptist, either. My Baptist ties do not lie with a church, but with the four freedoms as well as my upbringing. I believe very firmly in the four freedoms - competency of the soul to make decisions in matters of faith, freedom of the local church from outside interference, freedom to interpret the Bible for yourself, and civil seperation of church and state. The third of those freedoms is my major one - I don't believe in an organised group choosing for you (and from what I know of my girlfriend, she is of the same mind in me on that matter), but that you should interpret the Bible by learning and deciding for yourself. Of course, learning is always best done in a fellowship of some sort.

There is still much to think on and much to talk about between the two of us, but from what I've learned about her personally, she isn't as far off as I originally thought when it comes to what we believe.

More than anything, I am concerned with just what does and does not save a Christian. Some people consider it to be the one major belief: That one accepts that our saviour, Jesus, Son of God, died so that God may forgive our sins. I know that's not the exact quote as I forget what it is that people say so often, but I think that's the same thing, in my words. Surely so long as she believes this, and I believe this, then we will both be saved, and the remaining differences are merely interpretations and theories based on the scripture as to how things occurred and so forth? Surely if we are both to be saved, then God should not have any problem with us marrying, as we are both Christians? Is that not enough?

Thanks for all your words and I really do apologise sincerely for my very long posts and ramblings.

[Flynmonkie]

Hebrews 11:1
1Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

God is what saves us, not anything we do.

Perceptions will differ many verses in the Bible explain how to handle this:

For instance:
Romans 14

1Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
14I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
16Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
18For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
19Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
20For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
21It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
22Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
23And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

We are taught to work out (understand) our own salvation:
Philippians 2:12
Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

But on the same note we are taught fellowship for many reasons, mainly to learn and grow with one another:

Proverbs 27:17
Iron sharpeneth iron; so a man sharpeneth the countenance of his friend.

I believe you are on the right track with your thoughts, I do think you should start studying more so you can feel more solidified in your thought process.


If someone believes Christs blood is sufficient for his or her sins, past, present and future. That it is a gift of God. There is nothing we can do, or did for this grace. If they have faith, the Hebrews 11:1 type of faith, a real faith. God gives the answers, or what we need, when we need it when we truly seek His guidance. Jesus tells us to come to Him as a little child, think about it, How do children look to their parents? A sort of “blind” faith. But it is not really that blind as Christians, because we have Biblical texts to search the scriptures daily to see if it is true. Acts17: 11 - 11Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

The trinity is a hard thing to grasp for many people. I believe as I have stated before, it just brings one to a further understanding of God, a fuller picture.

I can say, in the dealings I have had with JWs, I have met some really great people, however, I have also met some very conniving people that seem to carry a cultish attitude. ANY denomination that makes you feel as if you will be dammed if you leave it is not something from God.

[Flynmonkie]

I meant to post this too, good grief, I am getting tired!:doh: Here is a good place to get an overview of what JWs believe (again this might differ here and there but the basics seem to be common)

What do the Jehovah's Witnesses Teach? (http://www.carm.org/witnesses.htm)
These are things you should be very mindful of :)

[DanielT]

With regards to your final paragraph, I agree - JW's used to scare me! However, when they do not preach and insist upon me, but rather discuss with me and (in the case of my girlfriend's mother) explain to me why they believe what they believe without any insistence or attempt at persuasion, I have no qualms with them. Luckily for me, the family I am getting to know does not seem of the cultish variety that I have experienced in the past back in New Zealand... however, we shall see how things go. The whole defellowshipping thing really bugs me - my girlfriend is of the thought/fear that it may happen to her brother at some point as he is baptised. But having said that, she is not baptised and has no current intention of such a thing, and she admits there are things she differs in opinion regarding, although I do not know if she would say so openly to her parents or not.

...speaking of which, I'm meeting her parents tomorrow. I'm going back to her place after she comes to mine, and it's possible I'll stay the night in the lounge should I be unable to get back (we live roughly two hours apart). Should be, uh, interesting! Time to break out my gentlemanly charms. :p

[TheUltimateWarrior]

False Gospels do not save people. I know this is blunt and abrasive, but there is no other way to say it.

[SonOfThunder]

Hello, I am looking forward to reading this thread and all the posts.

I Grew up as one of Jehovah's Witnesses but feel so afraid to post on their beliefs and mainstream beliefs for fear of being seen as 'witnessing from their perspective' so tonight I will pray on this and look forward to helping you see life from your girlfriends position and her family. I am disfellowshipped and my family and I dont live with each other now, I dont expect to be seeing them again either. The main reason I also left was on the blood transfusion issue. So much to share and sound Biblical reasons to explore truth and know the spiritual nature of this girl before you totally commit.

James

[MikeMcK]

Is it impossible that the Bible might actually not let us know exactly how something works, that the Bible may just have not gone into that area, and that we may just simply not know?

In this case, no. The Bible is very clear on Jesus' deity and on the Trinity.

Do I have to make a decision on how the trinity does or does not work?

I think you do. The Trinity and the nature of God are essential beliefs that define us as Christians.

From what I've read, there are scriptures supporting both theories and for me, I'm unable to believe either.

Which scriptures are these?

I still don't believe Jesus is Michael... but I do wonder just how important that matter is, so long as the person believes that Jesus is the Son of God, died for our sins, and is the one we pray to, the one who is with God.

It absolutely is that important. Which Jesus we follow determines which Jesus we call on to save us.

Which Jesus we follow also tells us whether or not we believe God's word.

Do we believe the Jesus of the JWs, who is a created being? Or do we believe the Jesus of the Bible, who is the Creator, God Almighty?

This is becoming more of a question of what I believe now than it is a problem in our relationship.

Which is precisely why I said in my previous post that you need to get out of there before they drag you down with them.

Oh, and for what it's worth, she says she has no intention of getting baptised (as a JW), and if she does, it won't be for many years to come.

But if she's clearly not willing to leave the Watchtower organization, how can you, as a Christian, stay with her?

More than anything, I am concerned with just what does and does not save a Christian. Some people consider it to be the one major belief: That one accepts that our saviour, Jesus, Son of God, died so that God may forgive our sins. I know that's not the exact quote as I forget what it is that people say so often, but I think that's the same thing, in my words. Surely so long as she believes this, and I believe this, then we will both be saved,

No. A false Jesus cannot bring about a true salvation.

Surely if we are both to be saved, then God should not have any problem with us marrying, as we are both Christians? Is that not enough?

But Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT Christians.

Have you ever heard the saying, "when you marry someone, you marry their whole family"?

Not only would you be marrying her family, but you would be marrying into a situation that is going to cause you to fall in your faith. You've already said that it's already happening as a result of your relationship with her.

How far down are you willing to go for this girl?

[DanielT]

In this case, no. The Bible is very clear on Jesus' deity and on the Trinity.

I think you do. The Trinity and the nature of God are essential beliefs that define us as Christians.
I shall have a lot to think on, then, as I find there to be so many different ideas on how the Trinity works and it all seems so far out of my comprehension. For three persons to be one God of three persons... it's... just very confusing. I hope I figure it out eventually. I feel really stupid when I read it all, it's mind boggling.
Which scriptures are these?
Examples on the debate can be found here (http://www.christianforums.com/t2878527-do-you-believe-in-the-holy-trinity.html) for an example, and then there are all the different theories detailed on how the Trinity works as found in Wikipedia. The Trinity is something that, as I said, is very confusing for me.

It absolutely is that important. Which Jesus we follow determines which Jesus we call on to save us.

Which Jesus we follow also tells us whether or not we believe God's word.

Do we believe the Jesus of the JWs, who is a created being? Or do we believe the Jesus of the Bible, who is the Creator, God Almighty?
Personally, I know I believe in the latter. I shall have to enquire further about her beliefs on this issue.

Which is precisely why I said in my previous post that you need to get out of there before they drag you down with them.
I don't see it as dragging me down, as there is no harm in researching. I will never listen to the voice of man, and my beliefs are not being turned into those of a JW - in fact, I'm learning now more on Christianity than I have in the past four years. If anything, I'm becoming a stronger Christian.

But if she's clearly not willing to leave the Watchtower organization, how can you, as a Christian, stay with her?
When in this thread have I made it seem like she was clearly not willing to leave it? On numerous occasions I've pointed out that she has no current future intention of becoming a full-fledged JW, and that she does not follow all of their beliefs - to say that she is a dead-set JW would be far from the truth. For all I know, this will be of a great help to her.

No. A false Jesus cannot bring about a true salvation.
Fair enough.

But Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT Christians.
Sorry, that was an error on my behalf when typing. My bad.

Have you ever heard the saying, "when you marry someone, you marry their whole family"?

Not only would you be marrying her family, but you would be marrying into a situation that is going to cause you to fall in your faith. You've already said that it's already happening as a result of your relationship with her.
Not once have I said that I have fallen, I have said that I am questioning. Any person should have questioned their faith at some point. If you never question your faith, what if you were brought up in a different religion? You'd never question that faith and you'd never see the light of Christianity. To be a blind follower is wrong - much like a JW could blindly follow the Watchtower's word, never once considering that they could be wrong. I consider things, and so far I have stayed Christian despite learning about other religions on various occasions. That, to me, shows that Christianity is the true way. I am merely considering exactly what I do believe - before today, I never once thought about how exactly the Trinity works. To not consider things, to not think, that is blindly following. I will take my time, learn, read, and make my decision on things. I am not saying I am not a Christian - I am merely wondering to myself what it means to be a Christian. Surely, this is a good thing.

How far down are you willing to go for this girl?Why go down? Why not take her up? Don't assume that I'm going down, I'm just trying to learn where she and I stand, and then I shall decide on what I will do.

[General_Peanut]

For three persons to be one God of three persons... it's... just very confusing. I hope I figure it out eventually. I feel really stupid when I read it all, it's mind boggling


It can be confusing at times...my advice for this would eb to pray that God gives you wisdome before you read.

[MikeMcK]

Examples on the debate can be found here (http://www.christianforums.com/t2878527-do-you-believe-in-the-holy-trinity.html) for an example, and then there are all the different theories detailed on how the Trinity works as found in Wikipedia. The Trinity is something that, as I said, is very confusing for me.

That isn't what I asked you.

When in this thread have I made it seem like she was clearly not willing to leave it?

When you tell us that she is considering her plans in that organization years down the road, that's a good indication that she's not planning on leaving any time soon.

Not once have I said that I have fallen,

I didn't say that you did.

Why go down? Why not take her up?

Let's imagine that you're standing on a platform 100 feet off the ground. Now, let's say that she is standing on the ground.

Which is easier: For her to jump up 100 feet in the air and join you on your platform? Or for you to fall down to the ground where she is (and most likely, die)?

Naturally, it's easier for you to fall down to the ground because you are at the mercy of gravity, which dictates that all things must fall, and she cannot jump high enough to overcome gravity.

Now, just like gravity tells us that it's easier to fall from a great height than it is for someone on the ground to jump up to that great height, so the Bible tells us that we have a sinful nature that makes it easier for us to fall than to for the unsaved to jump up.

For that reason, you're already at a great disadvantage in the relationship. It would be more likely that she would cause you to fall. That's why the Bible tells us not to be unequally yoked with unbelievers.

[Flynmonkie]

DanielT, when I say be "mindful," I didn't mean to imply to be "fearful" of JWs. This just meant to be aware that sometimes what they believe could seem to parallel what you do. In fact, association is a "trick," for a lack of a better word; they use this association well. The next thing you know you are following "doctrine" that you never realize just does not exist in scripture. Being mindful is about understanding through scripture what YOU see in scripture about the subjects so you are fully prepared to rebut if need be. But I can also tell you, if you are weak in faith, or weak in knowledge, it is a better idea that you just avoid these conversations. Some are literally trained to "debate" with you, and use the scriptures out of context to do so.:)

[DanielT]

Peanut: Thanks :) I have, and I shall continue to.

Mike: All the scriptural references can be found in the places mentioned, I'm not going to copy/paste every one of them. Sorry.

By the "It's much easier to..." situation, one could also say that every one of us was at that position in one point of our lives and we had to get 100 feet into the air - often without the help of anyone at all. This girl is still young and does not seem firm-set in a religion. I shall pray for you, too, that you may have more faith that the people who you see 100 feet down can be saved. Maybe it's just that I care about her so much that I have that extra determination to make this work, but maybe that extra something can be the extra something to pull her up that 100 feet. For I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.

I for one would not disassociate with good people simply because they believe something different, as they could be saved in the future. In fact, to disassociate with them is to do the same as the JW's do with those who leave the beliefs. I am surprised that you lack such belief that a young person who openly rebels against some of the JW beliefs, that has grown up in a JW family, is able to be turned to the light. These things only show that she is not completely at ease with the religion her family follows.

Flynmonkie: Ah, yes. :) I am - don't worry about that. I really don't enjoy people preaching to me - I prefer to do research on my own when dealing with decisions, as I feel that if one man can lead me in one direction, another could just as easily lead me in the opposite. I find that I learn more from hearing the two of them debate with each other than I do from hearing each of them talk to me in private. For these reasons, if a JW speaks to me, I consider it a bias opinion that is not something worth changing what I believe over at all.

[MikeMcK]

Mike: All the scriptural references can be found in the places mentioned, I'm not going to copy/paste every one of them. Sorry.

I'm not asking you to copy and paste anything. You said that you, personally, had these scriptures, and I was asking you about them because I wanted to have a conversation with you, not simply read someone else's opinion that you stated as your own.

By the "It's much easier to..." situation, one could also say that every one of us was at that position in one point of our lives and we had to get 100 feet into the air - often without the help of anyone at all.

This girl is still young and does not seem firm-set in a religion. I shall pray for you, too, that you may have more faith that the people who you see 100 feet down can be saved. Maybe it's just that I care about her so much that I have that extra determination to make this work, but maybe that extra something can be the extra something to pull her up that 100 feet. For I can do all things through Christ, who strengthens me.

OK. It sounds like you've got your mind made up. Good luck. I just hope you don't end up like all of the other people who said "It won't happen to me".

I for one would not disassociate with good people simply because they believe something different, as they could be saved in the future.

That's not what anyone is saying.

I am surprised that you lack such belief that a young person who openly rebels against some of the JW beliefs, that has grown up in a JW family, is able to be turned to the light.

And I am surprised that you would twist my words in such a way. I've never said any such thing.

[DanielT]

Sorry, that was just the way you came across - it seemed to me that you thought it wouldn't be worth my time to associate with a girl who was '100 feet down' as it was too much of a struggle to get her up. Apologies for misinterpreting your words! :)

[DanielT]

Oh, and as I meet her tomorrow, if anyone can pray for she and I - her name is Danielle, should you wish for one (Daniel and Danielle, yes, I know, haha) - that would be great.

[SonOfThunder]

hi

I guess I shouldn't post as I am upset at this thread.

NOT ALL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ARE BEYOND SEEING TRUTH, AND GOD WILL DO HIS WORK.

I had every intention of really getting into this thread and sharing my story and Scriptures and beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses but it seems a few view us as being beyond help or salvation. I know many many friends who just follow and eventually get to a point of wondering if it is TRUTH, not attending meetings and not baptised, I also believe mainstream beliefs have their share of youth that have gone to church with parents and also reach a stage of wondering and not attending meetings........... This thread has left me down.

James

[TheUltimateWarrior]

Son of Thunder>>

I agree that not all are beyong seeing the Light.

But it is not a good idea to date someone or consider it with the intent of making them a convert. Conversion my happen first, and the reason for it must not be because you want to date them.

[trinityisunity]

I am glad you posted the OP now and not in a years time. Daniel, I ask you to seriously read through these posts on this thread. I read in a How to recognize a cult book that most cults' members were once Christians.(80%). Whatever your view is on this situation it is going to be slightly clouded because you love this girl, but please listen to those who are not directly involved! Most people who turn to cults do not have a good understanding of Christian doctrine, you have admitted that you struggle with the Trinity belief. It is a hard concept to believe because we are only finite humans and we are believing in an infinite God. Jesus is co-eternal with the Father and the Spirit. He was not created but was the creator(John1:1-3, Col 1:16-17).

Some verses that support the Trinity are Matthew 28:19 and 2 Cor 13:14. There are others in 1 John 5:7 and Matthew 3:16-17. If you are not going to listen to peoples advice on this thread then at least bury yourself in information on Christian belief and doctrine. JW's will push their non-Trinity views across as I have found out at the front door a few weeks ago. We as Christians must believe in Jesus being God, He has always been and always will be. He was not God's first created creature as JW's believe. Don't get me wrong they are lovely people I have known many, but Satan will use them to place doubt and even make Christians question their beliefs.

Tread carefully Daniel I know you care for this girl deeply, but dont comprimise your faith in the Christian God for ANYONE.

I found a site with some useful info. for you
http://faithfacts.gospelcom.net/jw.html
God be with you.

[SonOfThunder]

hi again

I decided to share the main differences between Jehovah's Witnesses and mainstream for you to think on. I suggest you be ready, study them well and in context before they crop up as issues.

Trinity is of course the big one. they believe that Christ is God's son and is inferior to Him based on Matt 3:17, John 8:42; 14:28; 20:17; 1 Cor 11:3; 15:28

that Christ was first of God's creations based on Col 1:15 and Rev 3:14

that Christ died on a stake not a cross based on Gal 3:13 and acts 5:30

that Christ's human life was paid as a ransome for obedient humans based on Matt 20:28; 1 Tim 2:5,6; and 1 Peter 2:24

Earth will never be destroyed or depopulated based on Eccl 1:4; Isa 45:18 and Ps 78:69

Only little flock of 144,000 go to heaven and rule with Christ based on Luke 12:32; Rev 14:1,3; 1 Cor 15:40-53; and Rev 5:10

the 144,000 are born again as spiritual sons of GOd based on 1 Pet 1:23; John 3:3; Rev 7:3,4

these couple should interest you as a Christian

a Christian (Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are) ought to have no part in interfaith movements based on 2 Cor 6:14-17; 11:13-15; Gal 5:9; Deut 7:1-5

and

A Christian ( Jehovahs Witness in this case) should keep seperate fromt eh world bases on Jas 4:4; 1 John 2:15; John 15:19; 17:16

If this young lady were to be following her foundational beliefs to the letter she would not be going with you in the first place. When I was a Witness it was a huge no no to mix with other faiths and have relationships with them. I suggest that her family are non practicing.

The Blood issue was the start of my search for truth when my cousin died (also a great buddy of mine) following the birth of a baby for want of blood.
It casued me to really look into the Scriptural basis of this belief rather than rely on what others taught me through the governing body.

The Scriptures are Gen 9:3, 4; Lev 17:14; Acts 15:28,29

when I found this one error it brought every other doctrine into question and so my following 2 years were to change my whole life in order to follow truth and Jesus.

Interfaith relationships are not easy..including interfaith relationships with your own family. When you start leading a double life as I did when I returned home to my parents home last year, you never feel at ease in your spirit and the freedom that Jesus gave you to declare HIM is hidden behind carefully chosen words. This is hypocritical and stumping spiritual growth.

Perhaps this whole family can be guided to truth, perhaps your lady friend.

THEY ARE IN A CULT, AND ARE TRAINED TO DRAW YOU IN ALSO.

For those that don't know, in March this year I left home for the second time (for good now) to break free from false teaching. Now attending a Baptist church where I live.

James



James

[Dmckay]

hi

I guess I shouldn't post as I am upset at this thread.

NOT ALL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ARE BEYOND SEEING TRUTH, AND GOD WILL DO HIS WORK.

I had every intention of really getting into this thread and sharing my story and Scriptures and beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses but it seems a few view us as being beyond help or salvation. I know many many friends who just follow and eventually get to a point of wondering if it is TRUTH, not attending meetings and not baptised, I also believe mainstream beliefs have their share of youth that have gone to church with parents and also reach a stage of wondering and not attending meetings........... This thread has left me down.

James
Actually, quite the contrary. I have found that because of the emphasis in JW teaching that the Bible is G-d's Word and that it doesn't contradict Itself, that Jehovah's Witnesses are one of the easiest to lead to the Lord. Provided they are open to the Holy Spirit's direction when the contradictions between what the Bible clearly teaches, and what The WatchTower teaches are pointed out.

It is the nature of believers, especially when they are very vocal, but untrained in Scripture to do and say things that aren't in accordance with the way Christians should act. As one who has taken the path away from the WatchTower, more people should be willing to listen to what you have to say. I apologize for the things that have disappointed you in this thread.

[BearerBob]

This is an easy one. JWs aren't a denomination because they aren't Christians. Do not get involved in a relationship with one. Chances of you getting into their brainwashed minds is slim and it is most likely that you will fall to them.

[SonOfThunder]

This is an easy one. JWs aren't a denomination because they aren't Christians. Do not get involved in a relationship with one. Chances of you getting into their brainwashed minds is slim and it is most likely that you will fall to them.


Jehovah's Witnesses set themselves up to do the field work, they come to you. It is true they are taught how to respond but not all are 'well taught' and if a Christian is ready they can lay the foundation of doubt in the mind of a Jehovah's Witness, who in turn can go home and turn to the Scriptures and find truth.

God is in control here and leads people. Never give up, God doesn't


James

[Flynmonkie]

James, I hope that nothing I said offended you. I never made this claim, my apologies if it seemed that way, it is not the case at all!

I have learned in my life that God does keep His promises. I believe those whom don't know or don't even understand, God brings them where He wants them to be when they are seeking Him. Earlier in my faith, just starting in study, I would have rattled off all sorts of "they are not Christians, be careful etc..." But I realize as a Christian no matter where you go, or what you do, we will come up against truth twisted to lie everywhere, even in our own homes, churches and back yards. So as I have mentioned to you before, keep that full armor of God on, search the scriptures daily to see if it is so. You will not find me accusing someone of not being a Christian in this fashion, because I realize that even in the Baptist church there are "pew Christians" or people that just don't fully get it. They most certainly won't get it if someone is standing there telling them, they are not Christian. When one is seeking God, and follows Christ, my understanding of scripture, if we believe God keeps His promises and His character never changes, that He will give all the knowledge we need, when we need it. Meanwhile, we should continue to work on ourselves, gaining knowledge and understanding, so we are prepared when someone asks, or tries to tell us something differently. You are correct though, JW's can be very cultish, but I know a few left wing Baptist churches that are this way also. The key thing is Be prepared. :)

Another good site to research is:
Apologetics Index (http://www.apologeticsindex.org/j/j23.html)

[Stinker]

When I called back after the break in that phonecall, her mum picked up and decided to talk to me about what they believe, so I could get a better understanding of things. She treated it as though I knew nothing of Christianity for a while, so repeated a lot of stuff I already knew, and brought up a few things that were different, but as I've said earlier (and I did say rather matter-of-factly to her), I don't make any decision based on word of mouth - but it was nice to get a better understanding of their beliefs, although she was obviously trying to get a thousand words into a hundred (started with Genesis and everything, but didn't have much time as my girlfriend was apparently stabbing her with her finger!). Once my girlfriend was back on the phone, we talked a bit more. There are a few things I'm yet to get a full understanding on when it comes to what she believes, particularly with regards to how she views Jesus. Apparently she does pray to Jesus and does think of him as the Son of God, but also thinks of him as Michael the archangel being one and the same, etc... I told her quite clearly that such a belief seems to me to be based on a poor assumption and thus I can never believe it, again she accepted that.

She definitely sees Christ as her saviour, though, and believes that he died for our sins, etc. Just how she regards his divinity is something I'm not 100% sure on. She seems to regard him as sort of a second-in-command in God's kingdom, something like that anyway. It really is difficult for me because I've read over a debate in these forums on how the Trinity works, and I do believe that there is nothing that states exactly how it does work... it seems to me to be all rather vague, which means I can understand why some people believe it is there and some believe it is not. I find myself unable to draw to either conclusion. How can I? Unless I have some sign from God, I can't understand how a denomination or faith can draw such a massive conclusion based on nothing but interpretation. Is it possible for a faith to admit that they honestly do not know whether something is for sure? Is it impossible that the Bible might actually not let us know exactly how something works, that the Bible may just have not gone into that area, and that we may just simply not know? Do I have to make a decision on how the trinity does or does not work? These things trouble me. I don't like making a decision because someone interpeted something some way told me to believe it too. From what I've read, there are scriptures supporting both theories and for me, I'm unable to believe either.

I still don't believe Jesus is Michael... but I do wonder just how important that matter is, so long as the person believes that Jesus is the Son of God, died for our sins, and is the one we pray to, the one who is with God. Is the rest of the matter not just words and interpretations? Is believing the things I just mentioned not enough? These are the things that I leave myself wondering.

This is becoming more of a question of what I believe now than it is a problem in our relationship. The discussions I've had with her girlfriend are troubling her in that she thinks I'm going to leave her, however for myself they are nothing but my first real delve into how God works for the first time in many years.

Oh, and for what it's worth, she says she has no intention of getting baptised (as a JW), and if she does, it won't be for many years to come. In that way, I suppose she is not a Jehovah's Witness and in some ways you may not see me as a Baptist, either. My Baptist ties do not lie with a church, but with the four freedoms as well as my upbringing. I believe very firmly in the four freedoms - competency of the soul to make decisions in matters of faith, freedom of the local church from outside interference, freedom to interpret the Bible for yourself, and civil seperation of church and state. The third of those freedoms is my major one - I don't believe in an organised group choosing for you (and from what I know of my girlfriend, she is of the same mind in me on that matter), but that you should interpret the Bible by learning and deciding for yourself. Of course, learning is always best done in a fellowship of some sort.

There is still much to think on and much to talk about between the two of us, but from what I've learned about her personally, she isn't as far off as I originally thought when it comes to what we believe.

More than anything, I am concerned with just what does and does not save a Christian. Some people consider it to be the one major belief: That one accepts that our saviour, Jesus, Son of God, died so that God may forgive our sins. I know that's not the exact quote as I forget what it is that people say so often, but I think that's the same thing, in my words. Surely so long as she believes this, and I believe this, then we will both be saved, and the remaining differences are merely interpretations and theories based on the scripture as to how things occurred and so forth? Surely if we are both to be saved, then God should not have any problem with us marrying, as we are both Christians? Is that not enough?

Thanks for all your words and I really do apologise sincerely for my very long posts and ramblings.

After carefully reading this post, it is very clear that you do not have any problem with either her religion or yours. That you both believe that Christ died for our sins, and that He rose from the dead on the 3rd day. So what teaching you both follow is not a priority.

Is this correct?

[TheUltimateWarrior]

After carefully reading this post, it is very clear that you do not have any problem with either her religion or yours. That you both believe that Christ died for our sins, and that He rose from the dead on the 3rd day. So what teaching you both follow is not a priority.

Is this correct?

No, its not correct,

You have to agree on Doctrine. When Paul said do not be unequally yoke, that wasnt simply a non-believer and a believer, it also extends to differant doctrine. You cant expect someone to change over night in what they believe, and if they are thinking about dating than they had also better be thinking about marriage, and not marrying outside the faith as well.

[Dondi]

I thought that one of the most differing principle doctrines of JWs is the fact that they do not believe in a literal Hell, but rather view Hell a soul sleep, or uncounciousness in the grave until the resurrection for believers. Or annhiliation for non-believers. Is this not correct?

Also, do they not believe that Jesus didn't rise physically from the grave, but only spiritually?

Both of these run counter to mainstream doctrine and seems rather dangerous to me.

[rainbowpromise]

I've just never been in this situation before, since all of my past girlfriends have generally believed in God but not gone to church or anything, and it's never been a big issue.

When I met my husband to be, I could have said something like this. We both believed in God. I went to church most of my childhood and so did he. the difference being, he attended United by family tradition, I attended Baptist without my family.
We discussed religion and all seemed good.

That was then. Now we are unequally yoked.

I had intentions of changing him ever so slightly and he had intentions of changing me. That did not work out.