Christianity is a Pagan Religion?

[Flynmonkie]

Christianity is a Pagan Religion?:confused:

I had been listening to a talk show (on AM radio) the other day and heard this man that called in, who sounded like a Christian, he mentioned being the son of Abraham, etc… and also mentioned following Christ.:scratch:

But still he made this statement in regards to Christianity. Does anyone have any idea what faith base would make this claim? I have heard it before and have no idea. Thanks!

(PS: He was against the Death Penalty if that helps, it seemed to be a "denomination" thought, not personal?)
:)

[arunma]

This is a common claim in atheist apologetics, so I'm surprised to hear this coming from a brother. Now, Christianity is very "un-Jewish," and many seem to interpret this as being pagan.

[Flynmonkie]

I cannot figure it out. The talk show was regarding the Rule of Law and Moussaoui penalty. This caller after discussing his thoughts on the matter, which were very Christian in nature, inclusive of following Christ’s example, he expressed his distain for the idea of the death penalty; to which the host responded many Christians would differ with him regarding his thoughts in this matter. (I found myself in agreement of his Biblical thoughts and statements), that is when he responded with that line. “Well of course, Christianity is a Pagan Religion, they would agree." (Threw me for a loop.) I find and have found this an interesting perspective. I believe everything can be secular, however, secular humanism is quite a different story. I can never pin down if it is denominative statement, or something else? Is it Muslim? (Don't they believe that Christ was a "good person", an example to be followed; just not the Son of God, or have I got it all confused?)

[ZiSunka]

Bizzare.

I wonder if he was a member of Children of the Way or Fellowship of God? Those two groups see orthodox Christians as being heretics and semi-pagans. They believe the sacrifice of Christ is symbolic and not literal, and that communion as a ordinance ceased with the apostles.

I believe they believe that orthodox Christianity has many pagan undertones, which some catholic rituals and practices certainly do (oh boy, here it comes), and they don't distinguish between catholics and protestants. We're all heretics to them.

[ZiSunka]

I cannot figure it out. The talk show was regarding the Rule of Law and Moussaoui penalty. This caller after discussing his thoughts on the matter, which were very Christian in nature, inclusive of following Christ’s example, he expressed his distain for the idea of the death penalty; to which the host responded many Christians would differ with him regarding his thoughts in this matter. (I found myself in agreement of his Biblical thoughts and statements), that is when he responded with that line. “Well of course, Christianity is a Pagan Religion, they would agree." (Threw me for a loop.) I find and have found this an interesting perspective. I believe everything can be secular, however, secular humanism is quite a different story. I can never pin down if it is denominative statement, or something else? Is it Muslim? (Don't they believe that Christ was a "good person", an example to be followed; just not the Son of God, or have I got it all confused?)

Oh, okay, now I know where this guy's coming from. I have heard many Muslims express the same sentiments, and many of them are very well versed on certain passages of the Bible. Muslims often call themselves "sons of Abraham," and believe in following the example of Christ, as far as those teachings agree with the Quran's version of Christ's teachings and as far as they agree with the dominance of Islam over Christianity. Islam teaches that Christianity, with it's blood sacrifice of a human (Christ), is a pagan religion.

[HumbleMan]

Did his tone indicate he could be saying that sarcasticly? I'm thinking that maybe he's pretty liberal and sees Christians who believe in warfare and retribution as following pagan customs?

[Proud2bIntellectual]

I have heard it claimed before that Christianity was actually copied from a Pagan cult in the ancient Roman military called Mithraism. While the cult and Christianity do have a lot of similarities, I do not believe that Christianity is a copy of it.

[mesue]

I have heard it claimed before that Christianity was actually copied from a Pagan cult in the ancient Roman military called Mithraism. While the cult and Christianity do have a lot of similarities, I do not believe that Christianity is a copy of it.
I think it was a certain sect of christianity, and it is still considered, by some, a cult today.

[Proud2bIntellectual]

I think it was a certain sect of christianity, and it is still considered, by some, a cult today.

Ah okay. You may be right. Which particular sect is this? :confused:

[Flynmonkie]

My first thought was that Muslims believe this, he was African American, and we have several friends over the years, that have "converted" to "Black Muslim"; But, when he spoke his opinion of biblical relation etc. He seemed to sound no different than any of us? What caused me to think was the reference to "The God of Abraham" and the the Pagan issues; it seemed off the wall.

He was dead serious. No sarcasm involved. I know many people whom believe that "denominations" are derived from Pagan thought, however none of them ever had made the statement about "Christianity" as a whole?

If it is Muslim, I guess I have a completely backwards view of what it is to be Muslim. We have friends that are Muslim, I haven't seen them in quite a while, but I remember he explained to me that they believe Jesus is a good person (I cannot remember if he said prophet, or person) But they do not recognize Christ as the son of God. So, you could be right, he could have very well been Muslim? If this is the case it surprised me that it seems we have many of the same thoughts, even outside of warfare and retribution. Generally, his statements would have been readily accepted across the board.
BTW Thanks again for helping me out here!

[arunma]

I wonder if he was a member of Children of the Way or Fellowship of God? Those two groups see orthodox Christians as being heretics and semi-pagans. They believe the sacrifice of Christ is symbolic and not literal, and that communion as a ordinance ceased with the apostles.

I believe they believe that orthodox Christianity has many pagan undertones, which some catholic rituals and practices certainly do (oh boy, here it comes), and they don't distinguish between catholics and protestants. We're all heretics to them.

Sounds to me like some branches of Messianic Judaism. Indeed, some of these sects of MJ practice Judaizing (which, one will recall, is the first heresy that called for an ecumenical council), and believe orthodox Christianity to be paganism.

(No Andyman, I'm not talking about you. ;) )

I have heard it claimed before that Christianity was actually copied from a Pagan cult in the ancient Roman military called Mithraism. While the cult and Christianity do have a lot of similarities, I do not believe that Christianity is a copy of it.

Actually, the church fathers wrote polemics against Mithraism, and chastized those Christians who were led astray into this idolatry. By the magic of Bible study software, I can produce an appropriate passage.
And this food is called among us Ευχαριστία [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, "This do ye in remembrance of Me, (St. Luke 22:19) this is My body;" and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, "This is My blood;" and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn. (St. Justin Martyr, First Apology, Chapter 66)
In modern times, atheist, Hindu, and Muslim apologists are quick to compare Christ to pagan gods, as if they had made some new and groundbreaking discovery. But as we can see, the idolatry of Mithras was known from the time of the church fathers, and they were quick to refute Mithraism for the idol worship that it is.

I think it was a certain sect of christianity, and it is still considered, by some, a cult today.

Just a minor correction. Mithraism was not actually a sect of Christianity, but an entirely separate religion. It may have possibly come from Hinduism; what is certain is that it was practiced in the Roman empire. Essentially, Mithraism bore a striking similiarity to Christianity, because the false god Mithras immitated the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus. Therefore, Mithraists attempted to lure Christians into idolatry.

A certain elder at my church says that "Satan has a counterfeit to every true wonder of God." Mithraism would be an example.

[JPPT1974]

First of all, anything that compromises Christianity
Or what Christ is and does as well as what He
Stands for, that is like saying that Christ isn't alive
Nor did He die for us
As well as that Christianity there was never such a thing

[She]

What about Jehovah's Witness? He may have been one of them. They are monotheistic i.e. they do not believe in God the Son. But they believe in Jesus and call themselves Christians.

[Sword-In-Hand]

A certain elder at my church says that "Satan has a counterfeit to every true wonder of God." Mithraism would be an example.

Randy Alcorn has a similar quote to this one in his book The Ishbaine Conspiracy. It seems like Satan's job now is to only discredit Jesus and not make Him unbelievable, just not the only source of salvation. Which in my own life I find it much more harder to witness to someone who is set inside another belief than one who doesn't believe at all.

[arunma]

Randy Alcorn has a similar quote to this one in his book The Ishbaine Conspiracy. It seems like Satan's job now is to only discredit Jesus and not make Him unbelievable, just not the only source of salvation. Which in my own life I find it much more harder to witness to someone who is set inside another belief than one who doesn't believe at all.

Randy Alcorn is a rather popular author at my church, maybe our elder was quoting him.

[Sword-In-Hand]

Randy Alcorn is a rather popular author at my church, maybe our elder was quoting him.

That's cool. I recommend the Ishbaine book to any believer no matter the age. It is very insightful.