Baptist / WoF Question

[N67896]

Hi Y'all. I'm not trolling.:D

Here's the story: I was raised an American Baptist. Over the next 50-some years, I moved to the Assemblies of God, Vineyard, and now associate with Word of Faith folks.

Lady-friend goes to an Independant Baptist church in a far off city. Their website statement of beliefs seems totally compatible with mine, with one exception: I was baptized as a believer, but since I wouldn't be transferring membership from another Baptist church, these folks would insist I be re-baptized. No problem with me if they want to do that to me once a week.

My question is: Is it possible I could really be accepted in your church? Are tongue-praying in the privacy of one's own home and other w-o-f things deal-killers, or acceptable as long as I don't cause dissention?

[HumbleMan]

It would depend on the church. Baptists churches aren't unified in all beliefs. But, if you were thinking about an independent Baptist, they are generally more conservative and more apt to believe in the cessation of the gifts.

In contrast, I go to an SBC church. Conservative theology, conservative politics, but we sing the same praise and worship songs that we did when I was in the CoG, and although tongues are discouraged during the sermon, they are not forbidden in private prayer.

My advice is to just go and check it out.

[ghs1994]

I'm Baptist. I go to a small independent Baptist Church of about 300. Our belief is that certain gifts have ceased. I however don't have much of an opinion on it other than if certain gifts have not ceased, they must be done according to how scripture has ordained it.

My personal opinion on tongues is that there is too much emphasis put on the least of all gifts by certain denominations. They must be done according to the structure detailed very clearly in 1 Cor. 14. Anything else is flesh or the devil.

[N67896]

I have visited some websites that are upfront about it: "If you don't believe in cessation, you can't be one of us." Can I assume that if a place does not make a point of saying that, it's not a disqualifying issue?

And I know I'm asking you to generalize (and you have every right to decline), but do you believe cessation would be the only...or biggest...difference I'd have to deal with?

(By the way, I LOVE the old hymns...and rock, rap, p+w, polka and Gregorian Chant church music).

Here's why I'm asking:

I'm wondering if God does not see certain doctrinal differences as "unequal yokings." I further suspect that one does not become a member of a church because it's a comfortable fit, but because God calls one to a church to fulfill needs (His, his, and the church's)...

...and if that's so, would I be an idiot for not considering a Baptist church?

[jenptcfan]

You'll find a wide variety of what Baptists believe about spiritual gifts. You probably won't run into the charismatic gifts being used in an actual church service, but in the privacy of your own home it might or might not be discouraged.

My pastor is not a cessationist. He doesn't encourage the use of the gifts in church, but doesn't discourage it either. I guess he just wants people to be free to do what the spirit leads.

The WoF docterine that would concern me would be the "name it, claim it" type docterines and the "if your health doesn't improve, it's because your faith is weak" type docterines. Those might not mesh well with Baptist theology, but I don't know if all WoF folks subscribe to those docterines either.

[ZiSunka]

Talk to the pastor. That is the only way to know for sure.

I have to say, though, changing churches just to please your "lady-friend" seems pretty silly.

[daveleau]

Hi Y'all. I'm not trolling.:D

Here's the story: I was raised an American Baptist. Over the next 50-some years, I moved to the Assemblies of God, Vineyard, and now associate with Word of Faith folks.

Lady-friend goes to an Independant Baptist church in a far off city. Their website statement of beliefs seems totally compatible with mine, with one exception: I was baptized as a believer, but since I wouldn't be transferring membership from another Baptist church, these folks would insist I be re-baptized. No problem with me if they want to do that to me once a week.

My question is: Is it possible I could really be accepted in your church? Are tongue-praying in the privacy of one's own home and other w-o-f things deal-killers, or acceptable as long as I don't cause dissention?

I hope God leads you where He wants you.

First, most churches do not require you to be rebaptized. There's nothing Scriptural nor in the majority of Baptist statements of faith about having to be baptized in the Baptist church. The only rebaptism we do is if the initial baptism was not valid or Scriptural (you really didn't believe and you make a statement to that effect; you were baptized as an infant; you were sprinkled rather than dunked). Baptism associated with a specific church smacks of seriously wrong theology.

Second, Baptists do not hold to the same beleifs regarding prayer that are associated with the WoF movement, because we feel Scripture tells us there are times when God's will is contrary to what we desire. Thus, there are times when no amount of faith can bring about something contrary to God's will. You may be spoken to (in a kind pastor way) about this, as this is often a hurdle to ontinuing faith for people who have prayers that go unanswered. Other than that, we don't have a whole lot of differences. Speaking in tongues is fine, but we teach 1 Cor 13 and 14 that tell us an interpreter is needed and that tongues are used for the edification of the Church, not the individual. Many in the Baptist church do not believe tongues should be used because of these same passages, and because of the overemphasis some churches put on this (saying tongues are necessary for salvation). But, holding strict WoF beliefs will in no way get you pushed out of the church. They should love a WoF believer just as much as anyone else that attends.

The key is Christ, not a minor set of theologies such as these, so you will be accepted with open arms.

God bless you in your visits to this church,
Dave

[N67896]

I have to say, though, changing churches just to please your "lady-friend" seems pretty silly.

Not my fault, lol! I was born a man! :D

We have both been through some very trying times. On the one hand, I recognise the difficulties I'd have adjusting to her world. One the other, I see what she'd have to go thru to blend into mine.

I was born with big shoulders. As one of our w-o-f preachers says, a man does not follow a woman's lead, he serves her need.

We are agreed that God can make a way when there appears to be no way. I just want to make sure I'm not imagining insurmountable differences where they don't exist.

Thanks y'all for your answers. Continuing to chew and meditate on them.

[ZiSunka]

Not my fault, lol! I was born a man! :D

We have both been through some very trying times. On the one hand, I recognise the difficulties I'd have adjusting to her world. One the other, I see what she'd have to go thru to blend into mine.

I was born with big shoulders. As one of our w-o-f preachers says, a man does not follow a woman's lead, he serves her need.

We are agreed that God can make a way when there appears to be no way. I just want to make sure I'm not imagining insurmountable differences where they don't exist.

Thanks y'all for your answers. Continuing to chew and meditate on them.

There have to be a lot of WOF women available, too. Why deal with all the difficulties of trying to adjust to doctrines and teachings you don't believe just so you can date a baptist woman? It doesn't make sense to me.

[MrJim]

Eh, I'd say the WoF is a deal-killer myself (if no one else will). I go to an ABC and they are a liberal and somewhat flighty denom in a state of flux but I don't think they are that fluxed up.

[Stinker]

Hi Y'all. I'm not trolling.:D

Here's the story: I was raised an American Baptist. Over the next 50-some years, I moved to the Assemblies of God, Vineyard, and now associate with Word of Faith folks.

Lady-friend goes to an Independant Baptist church in a far off city. Their website statement of beliefs seems totally compatible with mine, with one exception: I was baptized as a believer, but since I wouldn't be transferring membership from another Baptist church, these folks would insist I be re-baptized. No problem with me if they want to do that to me once a week.

My question is: Is it possible I could really be accepted in your church? Are tongue-praying in the privacy of one's own home and other w-o-f things deal-killers, or acceptable as long as I don't cause dissention?

I have a few questions:

Were you immersed in water to symbolize the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Does the church of the Word of Faith teach that everyone must look for the gift of tongues in order to signify that they are saved?

If you believe that you have a miraculous gift of the Holy Spirit would you be willing to restrict this gift to private settings, and refrain from teaching that miraculous operations of the Holy Spirit in the assembly are necessary today?

[daveleau]

I think that is a great attitude to have, N67896. (I feel like I'm calling you by a slave name since I'm calling you a number. lol In Scripture, there are two slaves whose names are 3 (Tertius) and 4 (Quartus).)

There's a huge difference between abdicating your headship of the home (unscriptural) and understanding the needs of your spouse (or lady friend) and catering to her needs for the benefit of both. I know you aren't married yet, but IMO dating should have the same characteristics as marriage in the above way, because changing things after marriage would only cause problems.

I think you will feel right at home in a Baptist church, although the services will be a little more formal than you are used to attending. Not that Baptists are formal or liturgical (want to blow a charismatics mind- make them sit through a liturgical service), but we are in between the two forms. We don't dance and show large amounts of enthusiasm, but we don't try to quench the spirit either, or at least good Baptist churches don't. The theological differences should be minimal, as we do preach that one must ask God for His help in prayer.

[Iollain]

I wonder why they want you to be baptised again?

[N67896]

I have a few questions:

Were you immersed in water to symbolize the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?

Does the church of the Word of Faith teach that everyone must look for the gift of tongues in order to signify that they are saved?

If you believe that you have a miraculous gift of the Holy Spirit would you be willing to restrict this gift to private settings, and refrain from teaching that miraculous operations of the Holy Spirit in the assembly are necessary today?
Wow! (Word of Wonderment. sorry. a little religious humour there). So many nice people I'd love to respond to; forgive me if I don't get around to you in this response.

First of all, it is sooooo nice to have pleasant discussions with everyone here. I guess maybe that comes from the desire to "learn from" as opposed to "debate with."

Stinker: #1) Yes. #2) My diplomatic answer would be that neither the Bible nor I require tongues. Quite frankly, I find that in some settings they're annoying as opposed to edifying. #3) The gift of life itself is a miraculous one. Genesis 1:28 records God's first command to humanity, "Be in control of what I gave you." #4) "Refrain from teaching that miraclulous operations..." Great wisdom there. You're right. I might not be able to live with that.

Iollain: Why would they want me to be rebaptized? To feel comfortable about me, I guess. But since I'm comfortable with submitting to authority (once I've recognized that authority), I have no problem with it.

Daveleau: "I think you would feel right at home..." I wouldn't consider going without the Lord's leading that is Is the home He chose for me. I think worship forms are overrated anyway. I left one church because people shouted "Halleluia!" when the Pastor's wife mentioned "Wal-mart." Other than that, I'm pretty tolerant.

To (i forget your name): Why a nice Baptist lady instead of one of "my own"? Do you think I haven't asked that question myself in my prayers? I seem to hear heaven chuckling whenever I ask...

[mesue]

It would depend on the church. Baptists churches aren't unified in all beliefs. But, if you were thinking about an independent Baptist, they are generally more conservative and more apt to believe in the cessation of the gifts.
This isn't true. We don't quench the Spirit. We don't buy into a lot of emotional things either. This goes for the other Independent Baptist churches I've gone to.
In contrast, I go to an SBC church. Conservative theology, conservative politics, but we sing the same praise and worship songs that we did when I was in the CoG, and although tongues are discouraged during the sermon, they are not forbidden in private prayer.
My advice is to just go and check it out.
I've not been to a SBC, but I have worked with quite a few people that attend (about 30). I have to say, it may be the church's stance that the SBC is conservative, but I have yet to see it. It doesn't matter what we talk about, church doctrine or politics - very liberal. Of course, I live in New York State, this explains a lot.

[daveleau]

lol...WalMart...

[MikeMcK]

My question is: Is it possible I could really be accepted in your church? Are tongue-praying in the privacy of one's own home and other w-o-f things deal-killers, or acceptable as long as I don't cause dissention?

We have several charismatic members (important to note that the majority of charismatics do NOT hold to WoF theology) so tongues wouldn't be a problem, as long as you practice them in accordance with scripture guidelines for their use.

However, there are several core WoF beliefs that you would have to drop, first of all, the idea that Jesus became a sinner who had to go to Hell to suffer as a sinner in order to purchase the atonement.

[HumbleMan]

This isn't true. We don't quench the Spirit. We don't buy into a lot of emotional things either. This goes for the other Independent Baptist churches I've gone to.

I've not been to a SBC, but I have worked with quite a few people that attend (about 30). I have to say, it may be the church's stance that the SBC is conservative, but I have yet to see it. It doesn't matter what we talk about, church doctrine or politics - very liberal. Of course, I live in New York State, this explains a lot.

And this is a good example of the variety of beliefs within the "Baptist" umbrella.

I live in MS, and just about every IFB church down here will tell you the gifts have ceased, and if you speak in tongues, it's the devil.

The SBC may not be as conservative as the typical IFB church down here, but once again, each church is different. Most are still conservative, but the population down here is, also.

I apologize, Sue, for mischaracterizing your church. I should never have lumped all independant churches together like that.

[mesue]

...
I apologize, Sue, for mischaracterizing your church. I should never have lumped all independant churches together like that.
:hug:

[N67896]

I realize that, coming to this forum as I did, I was a guest in your living room. Thank you for receiving me; I hope I did not offend. And thank you for your help.

[PrincetonGuy]

Hi Y'all. I'm not trolling.:D

Here's the story: I was raised an American Baptist. Over the next 50-some years, I moved to the Assemblies of God, Vineyard, and now associate with Word of Faith folks.

Lady-friend goes to an Independant Baptist church in a far off city. Their website statement of beliefs seems totally compatible with mine, with one exception: I was baptized as a believer, but since I wouldn't be transferring membership from another Baptist church, these folks would insist I be re-baptized. No problem with me if they want to do that to me once a week.

My question is: Is it possible I could really be accepted in your church? Are tongue-praying in the privacy of one's own home and other w-o-f things deal-killers, or acceptable as long as I don't cause dissention?

When we are baptized in water, we are baptized into the body of Christ. ANY church that requires baptism into their denomination or affiliation is, in my personal opinion, a pseudo-Christian cult that should be avoided like the Black Death that took the lives of millions of people in the middle of the 14th century.

The Assemblies of God is a distinctly Christian denomination and they baptize converts into the body of Christ rather than their denomination.

As for the Vineyard, I consider them to be right on the border between Christian and pseudo-Christian.

As for the Word of Faith movement, their beliefs and practices make a mockery Christ, His atoning death on the cross, the life and teaching of the apostles, and the whole of the New Testament!

All three of the above groups are noted for their less than academic attitude toward the Bible and the Christian ministry, and this is especially true of the Vineyard and the Word of Faith movement. Most unfortunately, however, it is also true of many Baptists, and it is especially true of most independent Baptists.

It is my personal conviction that the Bible is our primary source of information about God, the spiritual nature of man, and the provision that God has made for man’s redemption, and, that being the case, the Bible is worthy of very careful and very prayerful study.

[N67896]

LoL! (More religious humour. sorry.) One more word, then I'll disappear, and hopefully we'll part friends...as much so as we were at the start.

One of the things that I realized in these questions and answers was that in many circumstances some Baptists didn't have the first clue what other Baptists believed.

It is therefore unjust of me to judge folks in any way for their remarks about my faith. For, if they don't know for sure what their own believe, how could I expect them to have an accurate concept of what I believe.

Anyway, no debates or provocations. But, my inbox is always open to people of good will.

Blessings and peace to you.

[JPPT1974]

We are baptized with and in Christ
We are forgiven of our sins
As well as are in new bodies
Of Christ!

[daveleau]

LoL! (More religious humour. sorry.) One more word, then I'll disappear, and hopefully we'll part friends...as much so as we were at the start.

One of the things that I realized in these questions and answers was that in many circumstances some Baptists didn't have the first clue what other Baptists believed.

It is therefore unjust of me to judge folks in any way for their remarks about my faith. For, if they don't know for sure what their own believe, how could I expect them to have an accurate concept of what I believe.

Anyway, no debates or provocations. But, my inbox is always open to people of good will.

Blessings and peace to you.


Well, you're talking to a very large and diverse group. There are American Baptists here that are considered liberal theologically and deny the inerrancy of Scripture, then there are SDB- Seventh Day Baptists that practice the Sabbath on Saturday, Reformed Baptists that are strictly Calvinistic, Independent Baptists that are often considered Fundamentalists, Anabaptists, Mennonites and Southern Baptist (my congregation). The whole gamut of theological ideas can be found under the title "Baptist." The issue is that there are qualifiers that designate our theology. We know what others believe, we just have small to large disagreements. I think there are more types of Baptists then there are groups within any other congregation.

The key is to look at Scripture and be able to defend your belief from it, and not from something a man has said. The majority of traditions were built during severe times of corruption, which is one issue I have seen time and time again in my recent church history class.