b*unique
10th May 2006, 07:02 PM
If God was proven to not exist, would you continue to believe in him?
If so, then why?
What would be the purpose if you did continue to believe in a non-existent entity?
how can you possibly prove it?
I just cant imagine such a possibility
but if there was a proof,of course i would not continue believing
Do you see any evidence such a God exists?
why would i need any evidence|?
what do you mean by evidence?
for me my life is enough,to believe God exists
all I have is my brain,my senses,and becuase
of this,I believe
i said this a few times,I grew up in 100% atheist environment,
was tought religions were tools people invented to explain things they could not,and to control others-tools of power and manipilation-
i still believe this is correct
i never seeked gods,or any spirituality,things just happened when i was 20,happy,at uni,having a good time-i had no need for gods
and as i was young,healthy and grew up believing all we get is this life,i had no fear of death
God came to my life without me doing anything about it at all
all my friends were atheists,my family,I never seen a bible,studied
religions,or any spiritual books
just happened,somehow a few days later i found myslef with a copy of NT,read 3 gospels,and it changed my life
since,I tried to NOT believe,I try that daily,but cant change it
my life is my evidence
so if i am real...
(is this what you meant?you can see it was my personal life is my personal evidence-if i am real,
God is real,from my personal point of view)
If you do, can you present evidence based on logical conclusions?
LOL!!
there is mor eto life than evidence and logic
IMO most things in life you will not be able to provide with any logic,or evidence
If you cannot, then, God does not exist. But let me go a step further. If God was a fact and he did exist, you would not have to prove it. It would be something you and I both would not be able to deny just like gravity is real. In short, there wouldn't even be any atheists in the world, nor would there be any "believers", we would all know.
making claims like that,you gonna have to prove it
but for me God is real,as real as gravity,the same as I cant prove gravity,or explain it,I cant prove God or explain
but feeling the effect ...thats all I have and need
your last sentence is simply the way you see things
it is no better than my way of seeing things
the same
you don't have to prove gravity. It's an undeniable fact that neither you nor I can deny. But with God it is not an undeniable fact otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. Notice there aren't ever any debates/discussions on the existence of gravity.
That's because it is undeniably factual. God is not.
I feel the same about God,not deniable,otherwise I would not believe
in his existence.The same as we dont understand,and cant prove gravity,goes for God and faith,it is just a fact of life for me now.
You see not all the people know about gravity,despite the fact they
experience its effects,they have no name for it,no understanding,
and it is there anyway.
I dont know why God is not evident to every person all the time,
I dont know if claims of believers about how they interact with God are true,I dont know about afterlife,but I know there is God.How and why...I cant explain,the same goes about gravity.
I guess before I believed I would think of a person who tells me this,they are just deluded,I do understand why you ask the questions,but I cant answer them,noone can.
I dont know if you will ever believe in this life,or if there is any other life,personaly I dont think it affect anything else but your own experience here.
The same holds true for how the concept of God was formed by man too. They had no other choice but to create a God in their image as best they knew how because such a being didn't exist. The results, God was born even though they had a pretty good idea their definition was faulty.
The sad thing about it is that they’re probably turning in their graves in amazement as to why millions still believe in such a God today.
that is what you think and believe
i agree that many people do humanise God,.but that is just the way
people are
you would say they tried to explain unknown to them by creating gods,I say they treid to humanise the God they cant understand
I believe that people actualy did understand God better at one point,
but focusing on earthly life and things,they distanced themselves from the nature,ad surrounded themself by human made things..and their understanding slowly disapeared
Another reason why God has been humanised it because some people would do anything,use anything to get what they want,
and religions were born,t manipulate,gain power and economical advantages.
Franklin,as clear as you believe there is no God,as convinced as you are,I am of the opposite,and as you have no evidence,nothing at all to prove your point,the same goes for me.
I'm not the one who doesn't have any evidence, it is you who doesn't have any evidence for Gods existence.
It seems that you are confused when it comes to evidence. I don't believe because there is no evidence for the existence of God, so how can I have no evidence of no evidence? there isn't any in the first place. Therefore your argument falls flat on it's face and makes no sense whatsoever.
no I am not confussed
you made some claims,and you have no evidence for them
this claim for example:
he same holds true for how the concept of God was formed by man too. They had no other choice but to create a God in their image as best they knew how because such a being didn't exist. The results, God was born even though they had a pretty good idea their definition was faulty.
it is only what you learned/believe/experienced perhaps
same goes for me
my reply was to the post i quoted...what was your reply to,....I have no idea
I'm not the one making any claims.
check the quote from your post i reacted to
There is no evidence for God therefore he doesn't exist.
i wish things were that simple
You on the other hand claim there is a God but fail everytime to prove it.
no
not once i claimed this
I simply say,for me,God is reality,and I never not once said that people have to believe me,or change their views
my life is my proof,I cant give you your proof,noone can
I shouldn't have to prove the non-existence of something.
again,that is not why ask
i said,prove people made God up,that is what you claim for example
the only thing that causes God to exist is belief.
again,a claim you have no evidence ,you so crave ,for
that is your opinion,and its validity is no different that mine,despite them being opposite
When I stopped believing in such an entity it no longer existed.
that is in your reality..you simply dont know
but what you learned,experienced,etc...make you think there is no God
thats fine by me
we all have our own ways
it was only in the mind and not outside of it.
again that is what you think,there is no proof or evidence that you are right or wrong
Therefore, a non-existent entity.When I was a believer and started to look at this God with closer scrutiny, critical thinking, observation and reason it was proven to me that a God defined as omnipotent and omniscient is a contradiction and cannot exist.
so you simply stopped believing in a vision of gods you had
i dont get this omni fixation...
immagine what a child thinks of their parents- they seem pretty omni..but they are not really
so if people describe God in certain way,it is in comparison to themselves
does it mean some ultimate omnisomething?
most likely no...just omni comparing to a human being
how is that not possible?
It is the invention of human beings of a God in their own image.
I agree that people humanise gods..does it mean gods are like what people think?
most likely NO
You don't have to believe in gravity. It is part of reality whether you want to believe it or not.
that is exactly what i think of God
God on the other hand ceases to exist the moment it is proven to the critical thinking human mind it no longer exists.
cant be done
It's really quite a simple process when you put your mind to it if you have the courage.
no it is not
i have tried this for 16 years
no luck
and it has nothing to do with courage IMO
No more Gods and no more masters. They were only a part of the imaginations of the human mind.
I would like to know what is it you believed
franklin,i dont see any point to debate this any more
i may be expressing myself in the way that is somehow lost on you,and
I am sorry
I try to answer,but am very skeptical of my ability to show you my point
Is there evidence for Mermaids, invisible unicorns and ghosts? there, that wasn't to difficult was it?
no merfolk,or other mythical being ever changed or affected my life,
therefor,no,it is not that simple
the only way the God you think exists is part of reality is if you can perceive him with your natural senses. If you cannot do that, then, all you have is a belief and belief doesn't make it real. It's just a belief.
there is more to life than that,at least for me there is
I am afraid from where I am standing,you are robbing yourself
of a lot,if you limit your life to only experiencing with your 5 senses
I admire that your approach is logical and rational, but when you consider the limits of mankind, our human body and mind, it somehow turns into arrogance
when you consider our limitations, you may want to allow for possiblities beyond our current comprehension.
Yeah,to sum it up as there must be gods,does not look too good,I agree,but if your life brings such an experience,and your brain makes conclusion,it is as rational as your approach,and as valid as your claim/view.
Of course nobody can give me proof that such a God exists, that's because they don't have any evidence. All they have is a belief.
again..do you have any evidence to support this?(not that i need it of you,or want it)no,it is your belief,and I accept it,without trying to force my one on you
the way i read your replies,you trying to force yours on me
-without any proof ,or evidence..just like the sentence bellow
It's obvious man created God. Just read the bible. It has all the characteristics of the male gender.
reading the bible,one needs to be,IMO<aware of cultural,historical
effects on the style of writting
another thing is,to see what people are like,how they -even if divinely inspired,would addapt everything to their needs and wants
and express it through tools available
this does not mean that God is male,and has characteristic of a male-it only means,that the writers of the bible humanised God,and as they lived in male focussed society,the creator become he,the father-this is the way they saw God,described God,related to God,humanised God,
but it does not mean that is God
...and using the bible to prove ones point..is it not a christian thing?
Again, it's not a claim I am making. It's just a simple observation. and what is it you think I'm "craving" for? ifI was a believer in such an entity, then I would be craving. Craving for such a being to exist. It's called: "belief"
youre craving for some tangible evidence,especialy tailored to your needs-that is what i see,sorry if i am wrong
if you look from an airplane window,you will see amazing fluffy clouds,looking so soft,you just want to jump in them and bounce
that is what the simple observation tells you
now if you were a person,who only guids themselves by 5 senses,you would definitely try to do that..walk in the clouds
Actually your reality and mine is basically no different.
I agree
but what we perceive is different,and the conclusions we make are our own,quite likely,not accurate at all
We breathe the same air, experience the same natural world that is all around us and neither you nor can ever deny it's existence.
lol, tell that to the sophists
But with god it isn't the same story because such a thing (God) is not part of that reality otherwise if it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
lol
if God was not part of the reality,we definitely would not have this debate :P
have a nice day Franklin,I hope someone will be able to show better than I did,what they mean,what they know
I may be wrong,but it looks to me like you were presented God and the bible in certain way,made to accept it,and once you realised that it does not agree with you,you shook off the rules ,the bondage of hell sin and other IMO twisted and weird things you were taught-you were left with only the one option,there is no god
to me it looks like you replaced one fundamental view of the world,with another..
I cant possibly understand you,and the reasons you shut the door
with so much conviction,but I believe you are honest,and that is what you know and believe ,and that is fine ,we all have our own ways,
as good and as bad as each other
If so, then why?
What would be the purpose if you did continue to believe in a non-existent entity?
how can you possibly prove it?
I just cant imagine such a possibility
but if there was a proof,of course i would not continue believing
Do you see any evidence such a God exists?
why would i need any evidence|?
what do you mean by evidence?
for me my life is enough,to believe God exists
all I have is my brain,my senses,and becuase
of this,I believe
i said this a few times,I grew up in 100% atheist environment,
was tought religions were tools people invented to explain things they could not,and to control others-tools of power and manipilation-
i still believe this is correct
i never seeked gods,or any spirituality,things just happened when i was 20,happy,at uni,having a good time-i had no need for gods
and as i was young,healthy and grew up believing all we get is this life,i had no fear of death
God came to my life without me doing anything about it at all
all my friends were atheists,my family,I never seen a bible,studied
religions,or any spiritual books
just happened,somehow a few days later i found myslef with a copy of NT,read 3 gospels,and it changed my life
since,I tried to NOT believe,I try that daily,but cant change it
my life is my evidence
so if i am real...
(is this what you meant?you can see it was my personal life is my personal evidence-if i am real,
God is real,from my personal point of view)
If you do, can you present evidence based on logical conclusions?
LOL!!
there is mor eto life than evidence and logic
IMO most things in life you will not be able to provide with any logic,or evidence
If you cannot, then, God does not exist. But let me go a step further. If God was a fact and he did exist, you would not have to prove it. It would be something you and I both would not be able to deny just like gravity is real. In short, there wouldn't even be any atheists in the world, nor would there be any "believers", we would all know.
making claims like that,you gonna have to prove it
but for me God is real,as real as gravity,the same as I cant prove gravity,or explain it,I cant prove God or explain
but feeling the effect ...thats all I have and need
your last sentence is simply the way you see things
it is no better than my way of seeing things
the same
you don't have to prove gravity. It's an undeniable fact that neither you nor I can deny. But with God it is not an undeniable fact otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion. Notice there aren't ever any debates/discussions on the existence of gravity.
That's because it is undeniably factual. God is not.
I feel the same about God,not deniable,otherwise I would not believe
in his existence.The same as we dont understand,and cant prove gravity,goes for God and faith,it is just a fact of life for me now.
You see not all the people know about gravity,despite the fact they
experience its effects,they have no name for it,no understanding,
and it is there anyway.
I dont know why God is not evident to every person all the time,
I dont know if claims of believers about how they interact with God are true,I dont know about afterlife,but I know there is God.How and why...I cant explain,the same goes about gravity.
I guess before I believed I would think of a person who tells me this,they are just deluded,I do understand why you ask the questions,but I cant answer them,noone can.
I dont know if you will ever believe in this life,or if there is any other life,personaly I dont think it affect anything else but your own experience here.
The same holds true for how the concept of God was formed by man too. They had no other choice but to create a God in their image as best they knew how because such a being didn't exist. The results, God was born even though they had a pretty good idea their definition was faulty.
The sad thing about it is that they’re probably turning in their graves in amazement as to why millions still believe in such a God today.
that is what you think and believe
i agree that many people do humanise God,.but that is just the way
people are
you would say they tried to explain unknown to them by creating gods,I say they treid to humanise the God they cant understand
I believe that people actualy did understand God better at one point,
but focusing on earthly life and things,they distanced themselves from the nature,ad surrounded themself by human made things..and their understanding slowly disapeared
Another reason why God has been humanised it because some people would do anything,use anything to get what they want,
and religions were born,t manipulate,gain power and economical advantages.
Franklin,as clear as you believe there is no God,as convinced as you are,I am of the opposite,and as you have no evidence,nothing at all to prove your point,the same goes for me.
I'm not the one who doesn't have any evidence, it is you who doesn't have any evidence for Gods existence.
It seems that you are confused when it comes to evidence. I don't believe because there is no evidence for the existence of God, so how can I have no evidence of no evidence? there isn't any in the first place. Therefore your argument falls flat on it's face and makes no sense whatsoever.
no I am not confussed
you made some claims,and you have no evidence for them
this claim for example:
he same holds true for how the concept of God was formed by man too. They had no other choice but to create a God in their image as best they knew how because such a being didn't exist. The results, God was born even though they had a pretty good idea their definition was faulty.
it is only what you learned/believe/experienced perhaps
same goes for me
my reply was to the post i quoted...what was your reply to,....I have no idea
I'm not the one making any claims.
check the quote from your post i reacted to
There is no evidence for God therefore he doesn't exist.
i wish things were that simple
You on the other hand claim there is a God but fail everytime to prove it.
no
not once i claimed this
I simply say,for me,God is reality,and I never not once said that people have to believe me,or change their views
my life is my proof,I cant give you your proof,noone can
I shouldn't have to prove the non-existence of something.
again,that is not why ask
i said,prove people made God up,that is what you claim for example
the only thing that causes God to exist is belief.
again,a claim you have no evidence ,you so crave ,for
that is your opinion,and its validity is no different that mine,despite them being opposite
When I stopped believing in such an entity it no longer existed.
that is in your reality..you simply dont know
but what you learned,experienced,etc...make you think there is no God
thats fine by me
we all have our own ways
it was only in the mind and not outside of it.
again that is what you think,there is no proof or evidence that you are right or wrong
Therefore, a non-existent entity.When I was a believer and started to look at this God with closer scrutiny, critical thinking, observation and reason it was proven to me that a God defined as omnipotent and omniscient is a contradiction and cannot exist.
so you simply stopped believing in a vision of gods you had
i dont get this omni fixation...
immagine what a child thinks of their parents- they seem pretty omni..but they are not really
so if people describe God in certain way,it is in comparison to themselves
does it mean some ultimate omnisomething?
most likely no...just omni comparing to a human being
how is that not possible?
It is the invention of human beings of a God in their own image.
I agree that people humanise gods..does it mean gods are like what people think?
most likely NO
You don't have to believe in gravity. It is part of reality whether you want to believe it or not.
that is exactly what i think of God
God on the other hand ceases to exist the moment it is proven to the critical thinking human mind it no longer exists.
cant be done
It's really quite a simple process when you put your mind to it if you have the courage.
no it is not
i have tried this for 16 years
no luck
and it has nothing to do with courage IMO
No more Gods and no more masters. They were only a part of the imaginations of the human mind.
I would like to know what is it you believed
franklin,i dont see any point to debate this any more
i may be expressing myself in the way that is somehow lost on you,and
I am sorry
I try to answer,but am very skeptical of my ability to show you my point
Is there evidence for Mermaids, invisible unicorns and ghosts? there, that wasn't to difficult was it?
no merfolk,or other mythical being ever changed or affected my life,
therefor,no,it is not that simple
the only way the God you think exists is part of reality is if you can perceive him with your natural senses. If you cannot do that, then, all you have is a belief and belief doesn't make it real. It's just a belief.
there is more to life than that,at least for me there is
I am afraid from where I am standing,you are robbing yourself
of a lot,if you limit your life to only experiencing with your 5 senses
I admire that your approach is logical and rational, but when you consider the limits of mankind, our human body and mind, it somehow turns into arrogance
when you consider our limitations, you may want to allow for possiblities beyond our current comprehension.
Yeah,to sum it up as there must be gods,does not look too good,I agree,but if your life brings such an experience,and your brain makes conclusion,it is as rational as your approach,and as valid as your claim/view.
Of course nobody can give me proof that such a God exists, that's because they don't have any evidence. All they have is a belief.
again..do you have any evidence to support this?(not that i need it of you,or want it)no,it is your belief,and I accept it,without trying to force my one on you
the way i read your replies,you trying to force yours on me
-without any proof ,or evidence..just like the sentence bellow
It's obvious man created God. Just read the bible. It has all the characteristics of the male gender.
reading the bible,one needs to be,IMO<aware of cultural,historical
effects on the style of writting
another thing is,to see what people are like,how they -even if divinely inspired,would addapt everything to their needs and wants
and express it through tools available
this does not mean that God is male,and has characteristic of a male-it only means,that the writers of the bible humanised God,and as they lived in male focussed society,the creator become he,the father-this is the way they saw God,described God,related to God,humanised God,
but it does not mean that is God
...and using the bible to prove ones point..is it not a christian thing?
Again, it's not a claim I am making. It's just a simple observation. and what is it you think I'm "craving" for? ifI was a believer in such an entity, then I would be craving. Craving for such a being to exist. It's called: "belief"
youre craving for some tangible evidence,especialy tailored to your needs-that is what i see,sorry if i am wrong
if you look from an airplane window,you will see amazing fluffy clouds,looking so soft,you just want to jump in them and bounce
that is what the simple observation tells you
now if you were a person,who only guids themselves by 5 senses,you would definitely try to do that..walk in the clouds
Actually your reality and mine is basically no different.
I agree
but what we perceive is different,and the conclusions we make are our own,quite likely,not accurate at all
We breathe the same air, experience the same natural world that is all around us and neither you nor can ever deny it's existence.
lol, tell that to the sophists
But with god it isn't the same story because such a thing (God) is not part of that reality otherwise if it was, we wouldn't be having this discussion.
lol
if God was not part of the reality,we definitely would not have this debate :P
have a nice day Franklin,I hope someone will be able to show better than I did,what they mean,what they know
I may be wrong,but it looks to me like you were presented God and the bible in certain way,made to accept it,and once you realised that it does not agree with you,you shook off the rules ,the bondage of hell sin and other IMO twisted and weird things you were taught-you were left with only the one option,there is no god
to me it looks like you replaced one fundamental view of the world,with another..
I cant possibly understand you,and the reasons you shut the door
with so much conviction,but I believe you are honest,and that is what you know and believe ,and that is fine ,we all have our own ways,
as good and as bad as each other