Question for Lutherans regarding baptism

[daveleau]

Hi Lutheran brothers and sisters!

Could someone explain Lutheran beliefs regarding baptism?
Is it required for salvation?
(Possibly related to above ?) Is there redemptive power in baptism?
Can/should/why are infants be baptized?
In my attendance of a friend's child's baptism in an LCMS church, he was sprinkled (at age 3 because he was adopted at age 3). Is sprinkling done to adult converts into Christianity in the Lutheran church?
Is sprinkling (aspersion) the only method used/valid in the Lutheran church, or are afusion (pouring) and immersion (dunking) used as well/equally valid?

Thanks for your help in my understanding!

In Him,
Dave

[LilLamb219]

There is a thread in the Theologia Crucis - Lutherans forum about justfication and baptism with some great postings that will help answer your questions:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2966317-justification-by-faith-alone-vs-baptism.html

But to answer your questions:

Could someone explain Lutheran beliefs regarding baptism?
Is it required for salvation?
Yes, it is necessary but not absolutely necessary. In other words if someone died who had faith in Christ but didn't have time for baptism, he was still saved.

(Possibly related to above ?) Is there redemptive power in baptism?

Baptism is a direct connection to the cross. We receive the benefits of the cross in our baptisms.


Can/should/why are infants be baptized?

Yes, infants really should be baptized for Jesus told the disciples to baptize all nations and children are included in all nations. In Acts 2:38 we see that baptism and the benefits are for our children also.

In my attendance of a friend's child's baptism in an LCMS church, he was sprinkled (at age 3 because he was adopted at age 3). Is sprinkling done to adult converts into Christianity in the Lutheran church?

Oftentimes, yes.

Is sprinkling (aspersion) the only method used/valid in the Lutheran church, or are afusion (pouring) and immersion (dunking) used as well/equally valid?

As long as running water is along with God's Word and it is in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, the baptism is valid.

Hope that helps. :)

[daveleau]

Thanks!

[LilLamb219]

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. Baptism is one of my favorite things to talk about :)

[rockytrails]

The bible teaches that faith in Jesus his merits alone is the one and only way to heaven .


The bible also teaches baptism is one of Gods faithful way's
of giving faith in Jesus to people especially infants .
who need trust in Jesus also if they are to enter heaven in case they die.

[Tofferer]

If not for the memory of my baptism back in 1981 (I was about six or seven), I don't know if I'd be in the Lutheran church today. I think that baptism has more merit than what some denoms give it credit for. I feel it can even help to bring one back to faith.

[rockytrails]

If not for the memory of my baptism back in 1981 (I was about six or seven), I don't know if I'd be in the Lutheran church today. I think that baptism has more merit than what some denoms give it credit for. I feel it can even help to bring one back to faith.
I Do to.
Gods word nothing is more powerful.

[GSJ1967]

There is a thread in the Theologia Crucis - Lutherans forum about justfication and baptism with some great postings that will help answer your questions:

http://www.christianforums.com/t2966317-justification-by-faith-alone-vs-baptism.html

But to answer your questions:

Could someone explain Lutheran beliefs regarding baptism?
Is it required for salvation?
Yes, it is necessary but not absolutely necessary. In other words if someone died who had faith in Christ but didn't have time for baptism, he was still saved.

(Possibly related to above ?) Is there redemptive power in baptism?

Baptism is a direct connection to the cross. We receive the benefits of the cross in our baptisms.


Can/should/why are infants be baptized?

Yes, infants really should be baptized for Jesus told the disciples to baptize all nations and children are included in all nations. In Acts 2:38 we see that baptism and the benefits are for our children also.

In my attendance of a friend's child's baptism in an LCMS church, he was sprinkled (at age 3 because he was adopted at age 3). Is sprinkling done to adult converts into Christianity in the Lutheran church?

Oftentimes, yes.

Is sprinkling (aspersion) the only method used/valid in the Lutheran church, or are afusion (pouring) and immersion (dunking) used as well/equally valid?

As long as running water is along with God's Word and it is in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, the baptism is valid.

Hope that helps. :)

I'm not trying to be snarky..and I know I've brought this guy's name up a lot..mainly because the study notes to my Bible was written by him..but here is a transcript of a sermon by John MacArthur regaurding infant baptism:

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Transcripts/80-194

again...I think it is a true blessing to belong to a Lutheran Church, what with all of the seeker-freindly and post modernism going on..but this issue seems to be a stickler with me

[RadMan]

I'm not trying to be snarky..and I know I've brought this guy's name up a lot..mainly because the study notes to my Bible was written by him..but here is a transcript of a sermon by John MacArthur regaurding infant baptism:

http://www.gty.org/Resources/Transcripts/80-194

again...I think it is a true blessing to belong to a Lutheran Church, what with all of the seeker-freindly and post modernism going on..but this issue seems to be a stickler with meWe would rather have you read the forum posts that explain our beliefs in baptism and not John McArthurs sermon. If you going to be Lutheran it would be necessary to believe what we believe.

I know we all have our "opinions" about certain things in the faith but if we are to have communion with other LCMS'ers we have to able to confess out Lutheran faith to be communed. Basically if you want to be Lutheran you need to believe what we believe. We believe in infant baptism.

[LilLamb219]

If you don't believe in infant baptism, then that probably means you aren't grasping the truth behind what baptism is and who is at work in baptism.

[GSJ1967]

All I am searching for is the truth. All I want to know is His truth..not what any denomination or person beleives..but what does He say thru His word about this or anything else. Why am I a Lutheran? Because it is the most black and white interpitation of His word. Maybe I should stop reading study Bibles interpeted by someone else and let Scripture interpet Scripture, and pray for The Holy Spirit's guidance and teaching. I'm not endorsing anyone's theology but I knew that someone said something completely different from the Lutheran view so I wanted some clarity. I HUNGER for knowledge about Him, I hunger for The Word. All I am trying to do is wade thru all of the different interpetations and find the truth.

[RadMan]

All I am searching for is the truth. All I want to know is His truth..not what any denomination or person beleives..but what does He say thru His word about this or anything else. Why am I a Lutheran? Because it is the most black and white interpitation of His word. Maybe I should stop reading study Bibles interpeted by someone else and let Scripture interpet Scripture, and pray for The Holy Spirit's guidance and teaching. I'm not endorsing anyone's theology but I knew that someone said something completely different from the Lutheran view so I wanted some clarity. I HUNGER for knowledge about Him, I hunger for The Word. All I am trying to do is wade thru all of the different interpetations and find the truth.
"Hunger" is good but unless you are grounded in "Sola Scriptura" everything else will sway you and then confuse you. People that don't stand for something will fall for anything.

[GSJ1967]

what should I do?

[LilLamb219]

Confess has written a really good paper on what baptism is (with biblical support). Here is a copy and paste of it:

1. WHAT BLESSINGS DO WE RECEIVE FROM GOD IN BAPTISM?

1 Peter 3:20-21. … in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it a few people, eight in all, were saved through water — and this water symbolizes Baptism that now saves you also.

Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

Romans 6:3-10. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through Baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; for he who has died is freed from sin. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.

* Note: These passages from Colossians and Romans are summarized well by Dr. Lowell Green: “Baptism is the retroactive participation in the work of Good Friday and Easter Sunday — even better, it is incorporation into the body of the risen and ascended Savior ...”

Galatians 3:27. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

Eph. 5:26. Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word.

Titus 3:5. He saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit.

Corinthians 12:13. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 6:11. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Acts 22:16. And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name.

Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Mark 16:16. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

* Note: In these passages, the Word of God associates Baptism with dying and rising with Christ, being clothed with Christ, being cleansed and made holy by Christ, having sins washed away, receiving the Holy Spirit, being regenerated (reborn) and renewed, receiving the forgiveness of sins, and being saved.


2. WHO IS TO BE BAPTIZED?

Matthew 28:19-20. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.

Mark 16:15-16. And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.



2. Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

* Note: The burden of proof lies on those who would choose to deny God’s gift of Baptism to an entire class of people.


3. ARE THERE ANY INDICATIONS IN THE BIBLE THAT INFANTS WERE BAPTIZED?

Colossians 2:11-12. In Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with Him in Baptism, in which you were also raised up with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

* Note: Circumcision was a rite associated almost exclusively with infants (eight days old). It would be odd to refer to Baptism as the “circumcision of Christ” if Baptism of infants was to be forbidden while circumcision was given almost exclusively to infants. (Note also that infants did receive Jewish proselyte baptism.)

Acts 2:37-39. Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" And Peter said to them, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself."

Acts 16:14-15. One of those listening was a woman named Lydia, a dealer in purple cloth from the city of Thyatira, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to respond to Paul's message. When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home.

1 Corinthians 1:16. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas.

Acts 16:33. And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.

* Note: Households included all members of the family (which usually included extended family) as well as servants and their families. For this reason, it would be unlikely that none of the households referred to above included a baby.

* Note: There is very strong historical evidence that Infant Baptism has been the common practice of the Christian Church since the first century of the Christian era, and was almost entirely unopposed until the 1500’s. For more information, see http://www.issuesetc.org/resource/journals/kastens.htm. Historical information from outside the Bible does not prove what is right, but humility would suggest that we should think twice before concluding that the whole Christian Church got it wrong for about one and a half millennia — especially when it is seen that a strong Biblical case can be made for infant Baptism.


4. ARE INFANTS IN NEED OF THE BLESSINGS THAT BAPTISM GIVES?

Psalm 51:5. Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

Ecclesiastes 7:20. For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin.

Romans 3:20. For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.

John 3:6. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

[LilLamb219]

1. Romans 8:7. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot.

Ephesians 2:1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins.


5. ARE INFANTS CAPABLE OF RECEIVING GOD’S BLESSINGS?

Luke 1:15. For he [John the Baptist] will be great in the sight of the Lord; and he will drink no wine or liquor, and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit while yet in his mother's womb.

Luke 1:41-44. When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit. And she cried out with a loud voice and said, 'Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb! And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me? For behold, when the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby leaped in my womb for joy.'"

* John the Baptist is an example of the Holy Spirit being active in an infant. Since Baptism is associated with receiving the Holy Spirit (Acts 2:38), this indicates that infants can receive this benefit of Baptism. We are not to deny this gift to children, but are to bring them to Him for this blessing.

Luke 18:15-17. And they were bringing even their babies to Him so that He would touch them, but when the disciples saw it, they began rebuking them. But Jesus called for them, saying, 'Permit the children to come to Me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I say to you, whoever does not receive the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it at all.''

* Note: The Greek word translated “babies” in this passage (brephe) referred to children in the womb and newborns. These were babies, not older children.

* Note: Our Lord Jesus clearly states that infants can receive the kingdom of God. Since they were sinful from conception, and because that which is born of the flesh is flesh (which is hostile to God), this means that it must also be possible for infants to be born of the Spirit — otherwise, they could not receive the kingdom of God.

Matthew 18:1-6. At that time the disciples came to Jesus and said, “Who then is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?'' And He called a child to Himself and set him before them, and said, “Truly I say to you, unless you are converted and become like children, you will not enter the kingdom of heaven Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. And whoever receives one such child in My name receives Me; but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him to have a heavy millstone hung around his neck, and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."

Matthew 21:15-16. But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple area, "Hosanna to the Son of David," they were indignant. "Do you hear what these children are saying?" they asked him. "Yes," replied Jesus, "have you never read, 'From the lips of children and infants you have ordained praise'?"

* Note: Since we already know from God’s Word that infants can receive the Holy Spirit and can receive the kingdom of God, it should not surprise us that Jesus here refers to small children believing in Him (which could also be translated as having faith in Him) and children and infants praising Him. It is the Holy Spirit who creates faith, and the kingdom of God is received by faith.

* Note: Since Jesus says that small children can believe in Him, we can properly speak of small children who are believers in Christ — “Christians.” If they are capable of being Christians, they should not be denied Baptism.

* Note: This (small children being believers) is reflected in early Christian tomb inscriptions. The faith of infants is also referred to in the writings of important teachers in the early church (such as Augustine). Following are quotes from a few pastors and theologians about the faith of these little ones who believe in Christ:

[LilLamb219]

Dr. Martin Chemnitz: "Although we can neither understand nor explain in words what may be the nature of that action or operation of the Holy Spirit in infants who are baptized, nevertheless the Word of God leaves no doubt that such action and operation does occur. This which the Holy Spirit produces in infants we call faith and say that infants believe."

Dr. Johann Gerhard: "Even though we do not understand what all takes place with faith in the tiny, little children, yet we should hold the Word of God in such reverence that we do not deny what it so clearly witnesses to regarding the faith of little children."

Dr. David Scaer: "Surely, if infant brains can process human language and make sense out of their environment, they can process the divine language which proceeds from the mouth of God and calls to faith. It would be strange to assert that the words of the Holy Spirit lack the efficaciousness which human language has with infants."

Dr. William Arndt: “If the question is asked how an infant, unconscious of what is happening around it and unable to understand the meaning of Baptism, can believe, the answer is that not we but the Holy Spirit creates faith in the child receiving Holy Baptism and that He can perform that miracle and take up His dwelling in children as well as in people who are grown up.”

Dr. Robert Kolb: “The Word of God is powerful enough, when uttered, to change even a godless heart, which is no less responsive and helpless than any infant.”

Dr. Lowell Green: “God does not need human cooperation. In fact, faith is the setting aside of our own activity in order that God may work in us.”


* Note: Those who say that a lack of mature reason precludes infants from having faith are encouraged to consider what the Bible says about natural man’s reason and faith -- see, for example: 1 Corinthians 1:18-31, 1 Corinthians 2:14, 1 Corinthians 3:18-20, Romans 8:6-7, 1 Timothy 6:20-21. True wisdom does not precede faith but is given by God and received by the faithful as a gift. The reasoning of an unbelieving adult is not a prerequisite to faith, but rather fights against faith.

Additional resources:

A good discussion of infant Baptism and infant faith can also be found in the novel “The Hammer of God” by Bo Giertz (pages 214-227).

These topics are also addressed in the book “Scriptural Baptism,” which is written in the form of a dialogue between a Lutheran and a Baptist. The book can be read online at: http://www.geocities.com/resourcesforlutherans/infantBaptism.htm

Books well worth purchasing that have excellent discussions of this are “Baptism” by Dr. David P. Scaer (available from www.cph.org) and “Baptized into God’s Family” by Dr. A. Andrew Das (available from www.nph.net). For an outstanding classic treatment, see “A Comprehensive Exploration of Holy Baptism and Lord's Supper” by Johann Gerhard (available from www.cph.org).

6. ADDITIONAL COMMENTS REGARDING THE ADMINISTRATION OF BAPTISM

In Biblical accounts of Baptism, there was not a lengthy delay between conversion and Baptism (e.g. Acts 2, Acts 8:26-40, Acts 9:-17, Acts 22:1-16, Acts 16:33). They went hand in hand.

Biblical accounts of Baptism indicate that it was not necessary for it to be done publicly. The Ethiopian eunuch (Acts 8:26-40), Paul (Acts 9:18, Acts 22:16), and the Philippian jailer and his household (Acts 16:33) were all baptized in private settings. The important thing about what Baptism is what God is doing — freely giving us His gifts as He makes us His children.

[GSJ1967]

Ok ok..everything is fine :)

While at work, I began re-reading a lot of stuff off the LCMS website (actually I started last night) and it's all becoming clear again. It was no coincidence that nearly 8 years ago my soon to be wife (at that time..we are married now) led me to the Lutheran church. I have been shunning God for most of my life but He still looked out for me and saved me from situations that could of been a lot worse. I was baptized in 2001 but I fell away. There was no repentance and I didnt truly understand the meaning of The Cross. Praise be to God that He didnt give up on me and the Holy Spirit worked in me. Everything I've read is clicking into place so The Spirit has not stopped working in me. Praise be to God!

[GSJ1967]

Hmmmm....

I was re-reading the Small Catechism and the section on Confession..

What is confession?
Confession has two parts. First, that we confess our sins, and second, that we receive
absolution, that is, forgiveness, from the pastor as from God Himself, not doubting, but firmly
believing that by it our sins are forgiven before God in heaven.
What sins should we confess?
Before God we should plead guilty of all sins, even those we are not aware of, as we do in the
Lord's Prayer; but before the pastor we should confess only those sins which we know and feel
in our hearts.

Huh? I thought the New Covenant erased the notion we had to go to or before another to confess our sins or talk to God. Again, forgive my thickheadeness...but.........huh? :scratch:

[filosofer]

Not required to confess before the pastor, but certainly recommended.

Luther's comment is in the context of having private confession/absolution. In that context, we should only confess those sins which we know/feel... not confessing sins of which we are unaware, nor those imposed by others.

[LilLamb219]

Ahh...there is another thread in the main TCL about this...private confession.

It's not mandatory that we go to private confession. But if we do feel the need for it, it's offered! :)

In the liturgy we have public confession and absolution, so we're not missing out on anything. But there are times when maybe a sin just clings in our mind and we really regret it so badly that we need to get it off our chests. Private confession will ease our torment.

[filosofer]

Confession has two parts. First, that we confess our sins, and second, that we receive
absolution, that is, forgiveness, from the pastor as from God Himself, not doubting, but firmly
believing that by it our sins are forgiven before God in heaven.

If you look at Matthew 18:18 and John 20:23, whenever a disciple forgives, it is because God has already forgiven (future perfect passive form of the verb: "will have been forgiven"). So, also true for pastors pronouncing forgiveness - it is God's forgiveness.

[GSJ1967]

I guess I'm still scratching my head over this.....

so let's see if I got this right..

Lets say my "pet" sin is pornography..or gambling..something of that nature. Something that is more like an obession I should discuss with my pastor?

[filosofer]

Do you have to? No. But sometimes the admission to someone causes us to see the seriousness of the sin. Private confession gives the opportunity to deal with it. And the pastor is under the seal of the confession, not to reveal it.

[GSJ1967]

Gotcha.

The way it was worded was confusing to me but now I get it. There is nothing taking away the New Covenant of going to God directly...right?

[Tofferer]

Gotcha.

The way it was worded was confusing to me but now I get it. There is nothing taking away the New Covenant of going to God directly...right?
Exactly right. Your pastor is merely a guide.

[LilLamb219]

When going to the pastor, as Filo said in a previous posting, it's still the same forgiveness won at the cross that is "given" in the absolution. It's God's forgiveness, not the pastor's :)

[cerette]

I will reply in bold italics


Hi Lutheran brothers and sisters!

Could someone explain Lutheran beliefs regarding baptism?
Is it required for salvation? Yes and No. Yes because God tells us to baptize, but no because you can be saved without having been baptized. If God tells us to do something and we refuse to do it, we are sinning. But if you have faith in your heart by the time of your death, and never was baptized, you are still going to heaven.
(Possibly related to above ?) Is there redemptive power in baptism? Yes. Baptism is a sacrament. It gives the forgiveness of sins and awakens faith.
Can/should/why are infants be baptized?
Yes, yes. The promise of baptism is given to all people, not just adults. Baptism gives the new birth and everyone needs to be born again.
In my attendance of a friend's child's baptism in an LCMS church, he was sprinkled (at age 3 because he was adopted at age 3). Is sprinkling done to adult converts into Christianity in the Lutheran church? Yes it happens, it may even be the custom.
Is sprinkling (aspersion) the only method used/valid in the Lutheran church, or are afusion (pouring) and immersion (dunking) used as well/equally valid?They are all valid. What it takes to be a valid baptism is: The Word and Water. How you put the water on the person isn't important, what matters is that you do it.

Thanks for your help in my understanding!

In Him,
Dave