They must be living right.

[mlqurgw]

Whenever someone seems to get gain in some way I used to always hear sombody say "they must be living right." Or if someone was seen mowing their lawn on Sunday I would hear " God will get them for that." I understand that the natural man thinks he can earn God's favor by doing or not doing things but what do you folks think?

[trinityisunity]

Whenever someone seems to get gain in some way I used to always hear sombody say "they must be living right." Or if someone was seen mowing their lawn on Sunday I would hear " God will get them for that." I understand that the natural man thinks he can earn God's favor by doing or not doing things but what do you folks think?
I believe NOTHING we do can earn God's favour. We are brought into His favour by accepting Christ. We are righteous in God's eyes through Christ. We are justified by faith alone. The first few chapters of Romans outlines this.(My homegroup is currently doing a study on Romans, and it is a very enlightening book).

Non-Christians do prosper but not to any eternal value like the Christian will.

[aReformedPatriot]

Whenever someone seems to get gain in some way I used to always hear sombody say "they must be living right." Or if someone was seen mowing their lawn on Sunday I would hear " God will get them for that." I understand that the natural man thinks he can earn God's favor by doing or not doing things but what do you folks think?

Perhaps, and maybe subconciously, we tend to accept retribution theology as being normal. Retribution theology is the basic principal of "obey God and be blessed, disobey and be cursed" as bein consistently normal.

I guess that is more or less my first thought on this thread.

[Imblessed]

Whenever someone seems to get gain in some way I used to always hear sombody say "they must be living right." Or if someone was seen mowing their lawn on Sunday I would hear " God will get them for that." I understand that the natural man thinks he can earn God's favor by doing or not doing things but what do you folks think?

I think it's silly to hear someone say something like that, and then turn around and find myself thinking the same thoughts occationally.

You are right, it's the natural man coming out in those instances. We all "know" better, but being the sinful human beings we are, we find ourselves constantly comparing and judging others by outward signs--mostly against ourselves!

[TwinCrier]

I don't throw around the accusations of judgementalism or legalism loosely, but these are perfect examples. Some people get gain not by living right, but by sinning. Likewise, who is to say mowing your grass on Sunday is a sin? I think this comes from the prosperity teaching movement, where you show how righteous you are by how many riches you are blessed with. We are to judge people on the fruits of righteousness, not by what cash they have on hand.

[mesue]

The sun rises and falls on everyone and the rain falls on everyone. It isn't what we have or what we do, or when we do it. It's Who we have and how we love Him that matters. It has been said that for some earth is the closest they will get to Heaven, for us who are saved, it's the closest we'll get to Hell.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Matthew 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

[HumbleMan]

Nothing I do will get me one iota closer to God than I already am. But, OTOH, what I do can move me so far away from God.

But it ain't cutting the grass on Sunday (I usually do that between morning and evening services, anyway).

I've never associated living right with prosperity or material wealth. You can tell the person who is living right with God by the peace they have, even in the face of a storm. Receiving material wealth may be a blessing of God, but it's never a gift. It's always an investment.

[ZiSunka]

Whenever someone seems to get gain in some way I used to always hear sombody say "they must be living right." Or if someone was seen mowing their lawn on Sunday I would hear " God will get them for that." I understand that the natural man thinks he can earn God's favor by doing or not doing things but what do you folks think?

It's just a saying. I don't think most people think it means anything at all. My sister always says that and when I asked her why she says that, she said, "say what? What did I say?"

[Imblessed]

.......Receiving material wealth may be a blessing of God, but it's never a gift. It's always an investment. :thumbsup: I don't think I've ever heard anyone put it so succintly......

[Phileoeklogos]

I think Bildad said something about Job mowing his grass on a Sunday.........

[Sword-In-Hand]

The sun rises and falls on everyone and the rain falls on everyone. It isn't what we have or what we do, or when we do it. It's Who we have and how we love Him that matters.



Bleh, you stole what I was going to say, now repent for being a thief! Kidding and well said.:thumbsup:

[Flynmonkie]

Whenever someone seems to get gain in some way I used to always hear sombody say "they must be living right." Or if someone was seen mowing their lawn on Sunday I would hear " God will get them for that." I understand that the natural man thinks he can earn God's favor by doing or not doing things but what do you folks think?
mlqurgw, you should have asked;
"Ever had those days when you feel like Solomon?"
(cranky old bitter wise man:D ) I have those days once in a while, now that can get to be a pretty depressing discussion, however......

Oh yea, I have heard 'em all. And yes, all too frequently miss -applied.


Those whom are rich "Satan doesn't mess with His own" They could not possibly relate that God would bestow riches on some and not others :doh:
Those whom are poor "God must be teaching them a lesson for something they did" They never thought that family, or person, might be under some serious spiritual warfare, and God still can turn it around and use it.
Those whom are sick "It must have been something their parents did" or "It must have been something they did to make God unhappy" They could not fathom that illness, or sadness, or sickness is not something God wants for us, ever. It is a product of this sinful world. Not a punishment for personal sins necessarily (unless truly their own consequence for their own action.)
Look, they are working on the Sabbath, shame to them" Never once thinking that they worked, or took care of sick children so much during the week, or other things that kept them from being behind, that was the only time to get it done to keep it under control.

Amazingly the thought never crossed their mind instead --it might be helpful to spend some of their own free time offering assistance to help lighten their neighbors load, or think positive in whatever the situation..:sigh: IOW thinking “How does God want to use ME in this situation or not.”

I could go on and on....
Nope, have not had one of those days at all...:prayer: Thank God for his reminders!

However, my thoughts have been similar to Solomon, I do get sick seeing the wicked get away with things, sometimes there seems no rhyme or reason, sometimes it seems as if I am treading water, sometimes I want Him to strike me stupid so I wont have to see things and understand the inner design of it all, it would be quite a bit less stressful --> but I hold fast that God knows what He is doing. Otherwise, I think I would be crazy (er);) !

God has me pretty well versed in the whole “Calvinist Capitalist” idea too, " the better a person you are the more rewards you have" the theory does not work!

"Think" Job.:idea:

[AtTheCross011306]

I don't throw around the accusations of judgementalism or legalism loosely, but these are perfect examples. Some people get gain not by living right, but by sinning. Likewise, who is to say mowing your grass on Sunday is a sin? I think this comes from the prosperity teaching movement, where you show how righteous you are by how many riches you are blessed with. We are to judge people on the fruits of righteousness, not by what cash they have on hand.

:amen:

[Imblessed]

God has me pretty well versed in the whole “Calvinist Capitalist” idea too, " the better a person you are the more rewards you have" the theory does not work!



great post flyn, but this has my scratching my head.....care to explain it?

:scratch:

[mesue]

I'm not a name it and claim it Christian, but I do believe in the following principles:


Luke 6:38 Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

Which goes hand in hand with the following:

Galatians 6:7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.


2Corinthians 9:6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
and this

Haggai 2:8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts.

It's all God's stuff anyway. You cannot out give God, He does give it back. He's shown that to me time and time again. I'm not just speaking of just material things. Spiritual as well. I cannot tell you how many times I'm blessed when someone says to me "You've been a blessing to me." What goes around comes around. If you give when people are in need, it comes back to you when you're in need. Maybe not by the same exact person you gave, but it does come back.
We give, not because it's a mandatory thing, but because it proves that we love God, Again, not just money, but of our time and talents as well.

2Corinthians 8:8 I speak not by commandment, but by occasion of the forwardness of others, and to prove the sincerity of your love.

[cobweb]

I do not wish for material prosperity. I only pray for my needs to be met.

As a young girl I used to pray Proverbs 30:7-9 every morning.

[Flynmonkie]

great post flyn, but this has my scratching my head.....care to explain it?

:scratch:
:wave: A while back I posted something I had read and had been in discussion on. One of Sociologys Founding Fathers -- Max Weber had a theory that Calvinism created Capitalism. You can check a bit more out here:

The Protestant Ethic and The Spirit of Capitalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism)

Basically, what I had read in class and posted about is that Weber stated that Protestants, more decidedly, Calvinist Protestants, believe that if they work hard, God will bless them with material things. He states that The Roman Catholic belief System encourages its members to embrace change. Protestantism, He believed undermined peoples spiritual security. Catholics believed that they were on the road to heaven because they were baptized and were church members. Protestants did not share this belief. Protestants of the Calvinist tradition were not told if they were saved or not until judgment day. Uncomfortable with this they began to look for "signs" that they were in Gods will. Eventually they concluded that financial success was the major sign that God was on their side.:doh: To bring about this sign they began to live frugal lives, saving their money and investing their surplus to make even more. This is how Weber believed brought in the birth of capitalism. (Henslin)

I can see some of this theory in play, but I am not so convinced that it had to do with something Calvin taught. Moreover, I see this theory applied and many denominations, including Catholicism. Anyway, the theory itself is highly debated (imagine that) but some of these attitudes that mlqurgw posted, I believe, derived from this train of thought. (I believe the thought is real, but not nessasarly that I agree with the “cause” of this thought)

This is where my comment derived. Many people look for signs that they are in Gods good favor. Sometimes reading verses that they will be blessed (or rewarded) here, by measure of this world, as well as Heaven. If they feel they have been short changed here, you hear comments like "God must not be happy with me." I tend to believe differently. Though God does bless us with "material" things, I believe He does so when there is a need for us to use these things, or share them. But not as a “sign” of approval. And it is certainly not a sign of salvation!:hug:

[Joykins]

Whenever someone seems to get gain in some way I used to always hear sombody say "they must be living right." Or if someone was seen mowing their lawn on Sunday I would hear " God will get them for that." I understand that the natural man thinks he can earn God's favor by doing or not doing things but what do you folks think?

Blessed are the poor.

As for the Sunday lawn-mower, the Sabbath is for man, not man for the Sabbath.

[Tappanga]

I don't believe you can do anything to earn favor with God. That said, I say things like, "They must be living right," and "Someone isn't living right over there," and "Someone in that house needs to go to church" all the time, just as expressions.

For example, my company has two locations in my town, both staffs mirror images of each other. In my department, there are two people in my building, and two in the other building. One week, someone in the other building in my department went on vacation. That same day, the other person in that department took bereavement leave (her brother died). I couldn't travel back and forth, so I found an assistant in that building to fax me everything I needed every day to do their work and my work as well. The next morning, I found out that assistant fell down a flight of stairs and broke both her arms that morning. I immediately told the co-worker who informed me, "Y'all aren't living right. Someone needs to go to church. I'm not catholic, but I think y'all should invest in an exorcism." It was meant as a joke and not literal. I think you might just be taking it too seriously.

[Imblessed]

:wave: A while back I posted something I had read and had been in discussion on. One of Sociologys Founding Fathers -- Max Weber had a theory that Calvinism created Capitalism. You can check a bit more out here:

The Protestant Ethic and The Spirit of Capitalism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Protestant_Ethic_and_the_Spirit_of_Capitalism)

Basically, what I had read in class and posted about is that Weber stated that Protestants, more decidedly, Calvinist Protestants, believe that if they work hard, God will bless them with material things. He states that The Roman Catholic belief System encourages its members to embrace change. Protestantism, He believed undermined peoples spiritual security. Catholics believed that they were on the road to heaven because they were baptized and were church members. Protestants did not share this belief. Protestants of the Calvinist tradition were not told if they were saved or not until judgment day. Uncomfortable with this they began to look for "signs" that they were in Gods will. Eventually they concluded that financial success was the major sign that God was on their side.:doh: To bring about this sign they began to live frugal lives, saving their money and investing their surplus to make even more. This is how Weber believed brought in the birth of capitalism. (Henslin)

I can see some of this theory in play, but I am not so convinced that it had to do with something Calvin taught. Moreover, I see this theory applied and many denominations, including Catholicism. Anyway, the theory itself is highly debated (imagine that) but some of these attitudes that mlqurgw posted, I believe, derived from this train of thought. (I believe the thought is real, but not nessasarly that I agree with the “cause” of this thought)

This is where my comment derived. Many people look for signs that they are in Gods good favor. Sometimes reading verses that they will be blessed (or rewarded) here, by measure of this world, as well as Heaven. If they feel they have been short changed here, you hear comments like "God must not be happy with me." I tend to believe differently. Though God does bless us with "material" things, I believe He does so when there is a need for us to use these things, or share them. But not as a “sign” of approval. And it is certainly not a sign of salvation!:hug:

I see, I think! lol

At least I understand what you are talking about. I'm not so sure it's "calvinist" thought, but hey, things change over the years....could have been back then.

I don't neccesarily believe that material things are a sure sign of being in God's favor---but I wouldn't discount it as 'a' sign. God has his plans for each of us, regardless of what we 'want' in life,and even when we are walking closely with God, we may not 'see' it in our material, physical lives.

I think you and I feel very much the same way about this.....of course, I've found that I agree with you on quite a lot of issues! :)

[JPPT1974]

It isn't just physical nor material things
That makes us right with the Lord but also
Giving our our time and effort and the will to do
The Lord's will and way!

[ZiSunka]

This probably won't be popular, but I think it some extent, God does reward us for being faithful and righteous.

Misfortune pursues the sinner, but prosperity is the reward of the righteous. Proverbs 13:12

He who is kind to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will reward him for what he has done. Proverbs 19:17

9 The fear of the Lord is pure, enduring forever. The ordinances of the Lord are sure and altogether righteous. 10 They are more precious than gold, than much pure gold; they are sweeter than honey, than honey from the comb. 11 By them is your servant warned; in keeping them there is great reward. Psalms 19:9-11

21 If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink. 22 In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head, and the Lord will reward you. Proverbs 25:21-22

This is not to say that people who are poor are not loved and rewarded by God, afterall, the best things in life are not material wealth, but that God does love to give to those who love Him.

[arunma]

Whenever someone seems to get gain in some way I used to always hear sombody say "they must be living right." Or if someone was seen mowing their lawn on Sunday I would hear " God will get them for that." I understand that the natural man thinks he can earn God's favor by doing or not doing things but what do you folks think?

I think the image of Jesus Christ standing for judgment before King Herod should show us that often times, the righteous are impoverished while the ungodly are successful. It seems to me that prosperity is the result of hard work (ethical or otherwise). It tells us very little, if anything, about whether one has the favor of God or not.