Debate Invitation: What is the "perfect" from 1 Corinthians 13

[aggie03]

I am looking for someone who is willing to talk about 1 Corinthains 13 and what the "perfect" is from that passage.

After those who are interested make their interest known, we can setup some ground rules for the discussion. I look forward to hearing from everyone. :)

[TheAJKMan]

I'd be willing to give it a bash and throw some ideas around :)

TheAJKMan

[aggie03]

Cool. Is there a particular idea that you wanted to discuss?

[Atlantians]

Well I don't think it needs a discussion. It is pretty straightforward. "When Perfection comes" clearly is reffering to the comming of Christ and the restoration of the world to the perfect way it was intended to be.

How did I do?

[aggie03]

Well I don't think it needs a discussion. It is pretty straightforward. "When Perfection comes" clearly is reffering to the comming of Christ and the restoration of the world to the perfect way it was intended to be.

How did I do?

Hi! Glad to hear from you! Is this the proposition that you would like to defend, support, contend or whatever other word fills in the blank?

If you interested, please let me know! :)

[StJohnCalvin]

The perfect, being in the neuter gender, is not referring to a person, but to something else. Paul was speaking about prophecy in part, and other things in part, all referring to this:


1:1 Although the light of nature and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men unexcusable (Psa_19:1-3; Rom_1:19, Rom_1:20, Rom_1:32; Rom_2:1, Rom_2:14, Rom_2:15); yet they are not sufficient to give that knowledge of God and of His will, which is necessary unto salvation (1Co_1:21; 1Co_2:13, 1Co_2:14). Therefore it pleased the Lord, at sundry times, and in diverse manners, to reveal Himself, and to declare that His will unto His Church (Heb_1:1); and afterwards, for the better preserving and propagating of the truth, and for the more sure establishment and comfort of the Church against the corruption of the flesh, and the malice of Satan and of the world, to commit the same wholly unto writing (Pro_22:19-21; Isa_8:19, Isa_8:20; Mat_4:4, Mat_4:7, Mat_4:10; Luk_1:3, Luk_1:4; Rom_15:4); which maketh the Holy Scripture to be most necessary(2Ti_3:15; 2Pe_1:19); those former ways of God’s revealing His will unto His people being now ceased (Heb_1:1, Heb_1:2).

[Mling]

I've generally thought that perfection could either refer to Christ's coming, or that it connects with 13:13: everything that is imperfect fades and disappears in the presence of the things that are perfect, 9-12 are various metaphores, and 13 introduces the things that are perfect: faith, hope and love (but the greatest of these is love).

(This is my favorite passage)

[aggie03]

I wanted to remind everyone that this is merely a debate invitation. This is not the thread where the discussion of the mentioned proposition is to take place. If there is anyone who is interested in taking part in a discussion, please let me know :) I would like to get this started as soon as possible.

I hope that you all have a great day!

[aggie03]

I am looking for someone who is willing to talk about 1 Corinthains 13 and what the "perfect" is from that passage.

After those who are interested make their interest known, we can setup some ground rules for the discussion. I look forward to hearing from everyone. :)

I decided that I was not clear enough in defining the proposition to be discusses, so I decided that I would clarify things a little with this post. I hope that it helps :)

Proposition 1:

The "perfect" in 1 Corinthians 13 refers to the completed revelation of the word of God that would take place in the completion of the New Testament.

Affirm: Aggie03
Deny: ???

Proposition 2:

The "perfect" in 1 Corinthians 13 refers to Jesus Christ and his second coming on earth.

Affirm: ???
Deny: Aggie 03

Proposition 3:

This will be an open discussion on other options for the meaning of "perfect" in 1 Corinthians 13. There will be no specific format for this proposition, rather the exchange will take place in a discussion format.

Format for Propositions 1 & 2:

Opening Statement: Affirm
Opening Statement: Deny

First Post: Affirm
Rebuttal: Deny

Second Post: Affirm
Rebuttal: Deny

Third Post: Affirm
Rebuttal : Deny

Fourth Statement: Affirm
Rebuttal: Deny

Closing Argument: Affirm
Closing Statement: Deny
Closing Statement: Affirm


In the final closing statement made by the Affirmative, there may be no new material presented. The negative argumentation must be focused on denying or negating the material that was presented in the affirmative argumentation.

The post limit for each statement is 10,000 words. Any Scripture that is quoted will not be counted against that limit. Scripture quotations should be set apart from the text of the post in the following manner:

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (9) not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

The full book name should be quoted, followed by the chapter and verse. The translation used in these discussions will be the English Standard Version (ESV). This version is available as a free add-on in E-Sword (http://www.e-sword.net) or on Biblegateway (http://www.biblegateway.com).

[Mathetes the kerux]

I would be interested in discussing the topic . . . but I have never partaken in a formal "debate" here on CF although I may be willing to give it a try . . . but what is wrong with just some good ol healthy dialogue?

[kenneth558]

I am looking for someone who is willing to talk about 1 Corinthains 13 and what the "perfect" is from that passage.

After those who are interested make their interest known, we can setup some ground rules for the discussion. I look forward to hearing from everyone. :)
I accept this challenge. I do not know the precise protocol, however. I'll see if i can figure it out...

[dkbwarrior]

I decided that I was not clear enough in defining the proposition to be discusses, so I decided that I would clarify things a little with this post. I hope that it helps :)

Proposition 1:

The "perfect" in 1 Corinthians 13 refers to the completed revelation of the word of God that would take place in the completion of the New Testament.

Affirm: Aggie03
Deny: ???

Proposition 2:

The "perfect" in 1 Corinthians 13 refers to Jesus Christ and his second coming on earth.

Affirm: ???
Deny: Aggie 03

Proposition 3:

This will be an open discussion on other options for the meaning of "perfect" in 1 Corinthians 13. There will be no specific format for this proposition, rather the exchange will take place in a discussion format.

Format for Propositions 1 & 2:

Opening Statement: Affirm
Opening Statement: Deny

First Post: Affirm
Rebuttal: Deny

Second Post: Affirm
Rebuttal: Deny

Third Post: Affirm
Rebuttal : Deny

Fourth Statement: Affirm
Rebuttal: Deny

Closing Argument: Affirm
Closing Statement: Deny
Closing Statement: Affirm


In the final closing statement made by the Affirmative, there may be no new material presented. The negative argumentation must be focused on denying or negating the material that was presented in the affirmative argumentation.

The post limit for each statement is 10,000 words. Any Scripture that is quoted will not be counted against that limit. Scripture quotations should be set apart from the text of the post in the following manner:

Ephesians 2:8-9 ESV

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (9) not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

The full book name should be quoted, followed by the chapter and verse. The translation used in these discussions will be the English Standard Version (ESV). This version is available as a free add-on in E-Sword (http://www.e-sword.net) or on Biblegateway (http://www.biblegateway.com).


I would be willing to debate but not under these rules.

First, you say I can only use one version of the Bible, the ESV, why? I am a King James guy most of the time, and like to refer to the Greek also. I do not like the ESV as a whole.

Second, the opposing viewpoint can only be that of believing that the perfect is the second coming of Christ? Why? That is kinda like saying that I believe that the sky is orange, and I want to debate someone who believes that the sky is green.

You have set up the argument in your favour, by limiting the opposing arguments to the same level of logic as your own, rather than seeking the truth of the meaning of the word, which may be different than either of those.

Change these rules and I would be happy to debate with you.