New Temple

[christinepro]

I have a friend who is of Hebrew descent. He applied for citizenship to Israel and was denied because a Roman Catholic helped his father during the war and his father was converted. I also have another Jewish friend who is now Christian and he is not allowed to read the Torah scroll in the Synagogue. If there is a new temple, in Jerusalem, would Messianics be allowed to worship there?

[plum]

I think you'd have to prove you were a Jew or a proselyte. Sad. But elitism is everywhere.

Ok so maybe it's not "elitism". But still.

[DanielRB]

I have a friend who is of Hebrew descent. He applied for citizenship to Israel and was denied because a Roman Catholic helped his father during the war and his father was converted. I also have another Jewish friend who is now Christian and he is not allowed to read the Torah scroll in the Synagogue. If there is a new temple, in Jerusalem, would Messianics be allowed to worship there?


Shalom, Christinepro, and thanks for the post, :wave:

Your question led me to ask another: since the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem is considered by non-Messianic Jews as a sign of the Messiah, then will the rebuilding of the temple also be accompanied by the proclimation of a Messiah, other than Yeshua?

If so, how could they allow believers in Yeshua worship there as Jews? (During the Second Temple, non-Jews could worship in the court of the Gentiles...I don't see why Messianics wouldn't be allowed there in the Third Temple).

A further question is, will this "Messiah" be the "Anti-Messiah"? If so, when would he be revealed as such?

In Messiah,

Daniel

[visionary]

I believe that is why the blinders will be taken off, the long awaited Messiah that comes when the new temple is ready is the shocker that awakens the Jews into seeing the true Messiah (Yeshusa, whom they have pierced) and realise the fulfillment of Daniel before their eyes.

[Flopsy Rabbit]

I thought that happens 3 or 3 1/2 years after the temple is built, after the false messiah ?

[visionary]

I thought that happens 3 or 3 1/2 years after the temple is built, after the false messiah ?The seven year covenant is broken at the 3 1/2 year period, and many think that it is at this time that the abomination of desolation is set up ( the anti-Messiah) enters the temple claiming to be God.

[Sephania]

Why do we need a temple in Jerusalem? Aren't we the temple of G-d? Don't we have access to the holy throne in heaven, where Yeshua is? Why do we need a building? We don't need a priest making sacrifices for us, we have Yeshua , he is our High Priest.

[Yovel]

Shalom, Christinepro, and thanks for the post, :wave:

Your question led me to ask another: since the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem is considered by non-Messianic Jews as a sign of the Messiah, then will the rebuilding of the temple also be accompanied by the proclimation of a Messiah, other than Yeshua?

If so, how could they allow believers in Yeshua worship there as Jews? (During the Second Temple, non-Jews could worship in the court of the Gentiles...I don't see why Messianics wouldn't be allowed there in the Third Temple).

A further question is, will this "Messiah" be the "Anti-Messiah"? If so, when would he be revealed as such?

In Messiah,

Daniel

When the Anti-Messiah shuts down the alter that's when you will know who the the Anti-Messiah is.

[HaNotsri]

There are two thoughts in Judaism about the Temple and its relationship to the coming of the Messiah (actually three).

1. That it is incumbent upon the Jewish people at all times to build a sanctuary to God (a specific Torah command and one that religious zionists and institutes like the Temple Institute espouses) EVEN before the Messiah comes

2. That it is the Messiah who will build the Temple and therefore Israel will not be able to before He comes. This is the view held by anti-zionist haredim (like the psychotic Neturei Karta, Satmar, and other chassidic courts). These groups don't believe Israel should exist until the Messiah comes, Neturei Karta go as far as to protest WITH suicide bombers and their leader sits on the Palestinian Ministry of Jewish Affairs as its head: Rabbi Moshe Weiss (I believe)

3. That the Messiah will come and the Temple shall come down from the heavens (completely built).

I tend to go along with the religious zionist point of view (coupled with the 3rd point). The Temple Institute (the foremost authorities on the Temple in this day) push for the building of the Temple on the Temple Mount, however Jewish tradition and the Bible shows that the Jewish people COULDN'T possibly build a Temple to the specifications of Ezekiel's Temple. The very topography of Jerusalem and the Land of Israel would have to change.

The rabbis therefore concluded that in order to fulfill the mitsvah of building a sanctuary, it is incumbent upon Jews to build a Temple of God to the specifications of the second Temple (which DID incorporate some of Ezekiel's prophetic elements). Only AFTER the Messiah comes (in our case, returns) will Ezekiel's Temple be erected. I think the Holy Temple will be destroyed as a result of war or the earthquake that occurs when Jesus returns. The earthquake could very well change the topography to fit the specifications of Ezekiel's design and the Temple in Heaven (mentioned in Revelation) shall come down to the earth. Jesus rebuilding "the tabernacle of David."

Obviously from the time of Jesus return, there will be a reign of some duration (whether or not you are a millenialist or amillenialist or neither doesn't concern me). At the end of this reign, the enemy shall be released and rally the armies Gog of Magog and deceive much of the world (which blows my mind because Jesus is right there!). Christ will of course destroy them and it will be at that point that the Heavens and the Earth pass away (as well as the Torah), for the new Heavens and the new Earth. The Father and the Lamb will be our center of worship in a new Jerusalem. Those are my thoughts.

As far as the antichrist goes, honestly he very well may be a Jew of David's line. Who knows. But one thing that I do believe is that Israel does have the commandment and should continue and build the Temple. I do not think it's an evil thing. Because the Temple that the antichrist will inhabit or try and rule from (from 2 Thessalonians) uses the greek word naoV or "nah-os" to describe that Temple. This word was only used to describe the innermost section of the Holy Temple, the Qadosh HaQ'doshim (the Holy of Holies). It's the Temple of God that the antichrist inhabits, even though it's being built by the vast majority of unbelieving Israel. They are still special to Him and longs for their worship. :clap: :amen:

Michael

[Sephania]

Obviously from the time of Jesus return, there will be a reign of some duration (whether or not you are a millenialist or amillenialist or neither doesn't concern me). At the end of this reign, the enemy shall be released and rally the armies Gog of Magog and deceive much of the world (which blows my mind because Jesus is right there!). Christ will of course destroy them and it will be at that point that the Heavens and the Earth pass away (as well as the Torah), for the new Heavens and the new Earth. The Father and the Lamb will be our center of worship in a new Jerusalem. Those are my thoughts.

And he was with our forefathers at the mountain, and through the desert he was that rock, he was that pillar of fire, he was the bread from heaven and they still turned to other gods. It is a deviding line, to divide the sheep from the goats, to reveal the true hearts.

If G-d could create angelic beings that saw him and lived with him and some of them fell, what makes man any different? ''

It's not about seeing with your eyes but with your heart.

[christinepro]

Shalom, Christinepro, and thanks for the post, :wave:

Your question led me to ask another: since the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem is considered by non-Messianic Jews as a sign of the Messiah, then will the rebuilding of the temple also be accompanied by the proclimation of a Messiah, other than Yeshua?

If so, how could they allow believers in Yeshua worship there as Jews? (During the Second Temple, non-Jews could worship in the court of the Gentiles...I don't see why Messianics wouldn't be allowed there in the Third Temple).

A further question is, will this "Messiah" be the "Anti-Messiah"? If so, when would he be revealed as such?

In Messiah,

Daniel
Does anyone have any cool bible quotes? I think it will be an anti-messiah, kind of like the movie "Left Behind". I think the U.N. will have a great part in it. There will be much deceit.

[Homesick4Heaven]

I have a friend who is of Hebrew descent. He applied for citizenship to Israel and was denied because a Roman Catholic helped his father during the war and his father was converted. I also have another Jewish friend who is now Christian and he is not allowed to read the Torah scroll in the Synagogue. If there is a new temple, in Jerusalem, would Messianics be allowed to worship there?

At this point, they do not want Christians or MJs in Israel period. There is a tremendous amount of discrimination against the MJ--fired for no reason, false charges, even 700 people protesting outside one house. If you go to a MJ meeting, you will be followed and harassed until you quit going. They threaten little children just for their belief in Messiah. I cannot see how these people that are so filled with hate would allow a MJ to come close enough to the temple to see beyond the gates, much less worship inside. For more info on the religious intolerance, you can read articles in the Messianic Times on their website.

[visionary]

Does anyone have any cool bible quotes? I think it will be an anti-messiah, kind of like the movie "Left Behind". I think the U.N. will have a great part in it. There will be much deceit.
Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

[plum]

Why do we need a temple in Jerusalem? Aren't we the temple of G-d? Don't we have access to the holy throne in heaven, where Yeshua is? Why do we need a building? We don't need a priest making sacrifices for us, we have Yeshua , he is our High Priest.
that is the spiritual reality.

[DanielRB]

At this point, they do not want Christians or MJs in Israel period. There is a tremendous amount of discrimination against the MJ--fired for no reason, false charges, even 700 people protesting outside one house. If you go to a MJ meeting, you will be followed and harassed until you quit going. They threaten little children just for their belief in Messiah. I cannot see how these people that are so filled with hate would allow a MJ to come close enough to the temple to see beyond the gates, much less worship inside. For more info on the religious intolerance, you can read articles in the Messianic Times on their website.

Shalom, Homesick, and thanks for the post, :wave:

I can't condone the descrimination against MJs in Israel, but I can understand where the non-Messianic Jews are coming from. In their eyes, these Jews are worshipping a man as God and have betrayed Judaism. Indeed, they are "siding" with historically one of the worst persecuters of Jews--the Christian Church.

Remember how "tolerant" King Solomon was about the worship of foreign gods? Remember what that eventually led to? I believe in the toleration of all religious beliefs in my country; but Torah has a different standard for the land of Israel. The toleration of foreign gods led to exile and misery.

Yes, I believe Yeshua is the Messiah. But it is clear that the majority of Jews don't think so, and they view it as a perversion of the faith and traditions of their fathers.

One day, of course, this will all come to an end when Messiah reigns as king in Israel. But until that time, persecution will and must come, as Yeshua said. And sadly, it is caused by the "best" of motives: the desire to serve God. (Matt 5:10-12, 44; Luke 21:12; John 15:20; Rom 12:14; 2 Tim 3:12--see especially John 16:2).

In Messiah,

Daniel

[Sephania]

Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. Some see that as Messiah not anti-messiah.

Who has made a covenant with his people?

Luke 1 ( Zacariash speaking in the spirit) 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: 71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; 72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; 73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

Who confirmed it?


19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. 20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is shed for you.


Who caused the sacrifice to stop ( temple veil rent, Yeshua made atonement once and for all ).

50 Yeshua, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. 51 And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom;

There are many stories on Jewish record of how the temple doors wouldn't even close after this.


Who made it desolate?:

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! 38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate. 39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

The middle of a week is 3 1/2 years, and that is how long Yeshua's ministry lasted before he was cut off from the land of the living.

Who hath believed our report and to whom is the arm of the L-RD revealed?


Isaiah 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.




Let's go back a few verses to Daniel 9:24
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

People and city

I personally think there are only 3 1/2 years left of those seventy.

[visionary]

Daniel 9:26
Then, after the sixty-two weeks, Mashiach will be cut off and have nothing. The people of a prince yet to come will destroy the city and the sanctuary, but his end will come with a flood, and desolations are decreed until the war is over. But this is the verse just before Daniel 9:27 The people of the prince is the he of the next verse.9:27
He will make a strong covenant with leaders for one week [of years]. For half of the week he will put a stop to the sacrifice and the grain offering. On the wing of detestable things the desolator will come and continue until the already decreed destruction is poured out on the desolator."for claification, look at these verses Daniel 8:9 Out of one of them came a little horn which grew extremely big in the directions of the south and east, and in the direction of the Glory. 10 It grew so great that it reached the army of heaven; it hurled some of the army and the stars to the ground and trampled on them. 11 Yes, it even considered itself as great as the prince of the army; the regular burnt offering was taken away from him, and the place of his sanctuary was thrown down. 12 Through sin, the army was put in its power, along with the regular burnt offering. It flung truth on the ground as it acted and prospered. 13 Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the speaker, "How long will the events of the vision last, this vision concerning the regular offering and the transgression which is so appalling, that allows the sanctuary and the army to be trampled underfoot?" 14 The first said to me, "Two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings, after which the sanctuary will be restored to its rightful state."

[christinepro]

Two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings, after which the sanctuary will be restored to its rightful state."
So where does this put us now as far as time?

[visionary]

Since the morning and evening sacrifices have not started, we do not have a start yet.

[Sephania]

I guess it all depends on how you read it. This book was written like other Hebrew books was it not, from letter to letter, but English translators decided where the verses should be and the chapter and even the punctuation.


I can't even do it with the version you used because it changes words. and adds words, such as 'strong' and 'leaders', but a stop, the wing of detestable things,

I have looked up on Crosswalk to see the commontaries about this and found I am not the first to see it that way. :doh: :)

This is from the Geneva Study Bible:

9:26 And after threescore and two x weeks shall Messiah be
(x) In this week of the seventy, will Christ come and preach and suffer death.
9:27 And he a shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to b cease, c and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

(a) By the preaching of the Gospel he affirmed his promise, first to the Jews, and after to the Gentiles.
(b) Christ accomplished this by his death and resurrection.
(c) Meaning that Jerusalem and the sanctuary would be utterly destroyed because of their rebellion against God, and their idolatry: or as some read, that the plague will be so great, that they will all be astonished at them.


Here is another
Commentary Critical and Explanatory
on the Whole Bible

26. after threescore and two weeks--rather, [I]the threescore and two weeks. In this verse, and in Daniel 9:27 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=da+9:27), Messiah is made the prominent subject, while the fate of the city and sanctuary are secondary, being mentioned only in the second halves of the verses. Messiah appears in a twofold aspect, salvation to believers, judgment on unbelievers (Luke 2:34 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=lu+2:34); compare Malachi 3:1-6 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=Mal+3:1-6), 4:1-3 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=mal+4:1-3)). He repeatedly, in Passion week, connects His being "cut off" with the destruction of the city, as cause and effect (Matthew 21:37-41 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=mt+21:37-41), 23:37,38 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=mt+23:37,38), Luke 21:20-24 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=Lu+21:20-24), 23:28-31 (http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?passage=lu+23:28-31)). Israel might naturally expect Messiah's kingdom of glory, if not after the seventy years' captivity, at least at the end of the sixty-two weeks; but, instead of that, shall be His death, and the consequent destruction of Jerusalem.


Read the whole thing here (http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/JamiesonFaussetBrown/jfb.cgi?book=da&chapter=9#Da9_26)

Let me know what you think. I too, used to think that way, back in the days of Hal Lindsey and his Late great, interpretations.

But the thing remains, just who can cut a covenant but G-d? Who promised covenants to His people? HL's way looks at this from a gentile Christian perspective and sees it from that side. Just like they think the New Covenant was for them, when if you read Jeremiah 31:31 it clearly is not., unless of course you resort to the gymnastics of replacement theology. ;)

[Flopsy Rabbit]

"One day, of course, this will all come to an end when Messiah reigns as king in Israel."

I have two thoughts, I am not sure how to put them in words, one that When Yeshua reigns as king in Isreal, how will it be? I think it will be Torah observant Jewish. I can imagine Him amending some of the fence laws, but I do not think it will be anything like the Christian church. Also thinking about the scripture where Yeshua told the apostles that they would throw them out of synagogues for His name sake, but in that He didnt tell them to stop following Jewish ways, the only difference it seems to me was their belief in Yeshua as messiah nothing else. and now the Christian church teaches that this is heresy. Well maybe you can figure out what I am trying to say?

[christinepro]

"One day, of course, this will all come to an end when Messiah reigns as king in Israel."

I have two thoughts, I am not sure how to put them in words, one that When Yeshua reigns as king in Isreal, how will it be? I think it will be Torah observant Jewish. I can imagine Him amending some of the fence laws, but I do not think it will be anything like the Christian church. Also thinking about the scripture where Yeshua told the apostles that they would throw them out of synagogues for His name sake, but in that He didnt tell them to stop following Jewish ways, the only difference it seems to me was their belief in Yeshua as messiah nothing else. and now the Christian church teaches that this is heresy. Well maybe you can figure out what I am trying to say? I think the man made rules that Yeshua was angry with such as issues like having to exchange money into temple money to purchase items in the temple because the Roman money was unclean, and treating the Gentiles as unclean, etc... These things will be done away with. But the real Torah stuff will remain. Just my opinion.

[visionary]

I think the man made rules that Yeshua was angry with such as issues like having to exchange money into temple money to purchase items in the temple because the Roman money was unclean, and treating the Gentiles as unclean, etc... These things will be done away with. But the real Torah stuff will remain. Just my opinion.I agree

[sabar]

There are two thoughts in Judaism about the Temple and its relationship to the coming of the Messiah (actually three).

1. That it is incumbent upon the Jewish people at all times to build a sanctuary to God (a specific Torah command and one that religious zionists and institutes like the Temple Institute espouses) EVEN before the Messiah comes

2. That it is the Messiah who will build the Temple and therefore Israel will not be able to before He comes. This is the view held by anti-zionist haredim (like the psychotic Neturei Karta, Satmar, and other chassidic courts). These groups don't believe Israel should exist until the Messiah comes, Neturei Karta go as far as to protest WITH suicide bombers and their leader sits on the Palestinian Ministry of Jewish Affairs as its head: Rabbi Moshe Weiss (I believe)

3. That the Messiah will come and the Temple shall come down from the heavens (completely built).

I tend to go along with the religious zionist point of view (coupled with the 3rd point). The Temple Institute (the foremost authorities on the Temple in this day) push for the building of the Temple on the Temple Mount, however Jewish tradition and the Bible shows that the Jewish people COULDN'T possibly build a Temple to the specifications of Ezekiel's Temple. The very topography of Jerusalem and the Land of Israel would have to change.

The rabbis therefore concluded that in order to fulfill the mitsvah of building a sanctuary, it is incumbent upon Jews to build a Temple of God to the specifications of the second Temple (which DID incorporate some of Ezekiel's prophetic elements). Only AFTER the Messiah comes (in our case, returns) will Ezekiel's Temple be erected. I think the Holy Temple will be destroyed as a result of war or the earthquake that occurs when Jesus returns. The earthquake could very well change the topography to fit the specifications of Ezekiel's design and the Temple in Heaven (mentioned in Revelation) shall come down to the earth. Jesus rebuilding "the tabernacle of David."

Obviously from the time of Jesus return, there will be a reign of some duration (whether or not you are a millenialist or amillenialist or neither doesn't concern me). At the end of this reign, the enemy shall be released and rally the armies Gog of Magog and deceive much of the world (which blows my mind because Jesus is right there!). Christ will of course destroy them and it will be at that point that the Heavens and the Earth pass away (as well as the Torah), for the new Heavens and the new Earth. The Father and the Lamb will be our center of worship in a new Jerusalem. Those are my thoughts.

As far as the antichrist goes, honestly he very well may be a Jew of David's line. Who knows. But one thing that I do believe is that Israel does have the commandment and should continue and build the Temple. I do not think it's an evil thing. Because the Temple that the antichrist will inhabit or try and rule from (from 2 Thessalonians) uses the greek word naoV or "nah-os" to describe that Temple. This word was only used to describe the innermost section of the Holy Temple, the Qadosh HaQ'doshim (the Holy of Holies). It's the Temple of God that the antichrist inhabits, even though it's being built by the vast majority of unbelieving Israel. They are still special to Him and longs for their worship. :clap: :amen:

Michael
I agree that the topography of the Land has to be changed and this is obviously caused by a super huge earthquake which topples every structure in the land so that a massive clean up will be undertaken to cleanse the land and prepare it for the process of rebuilding. Once the area around the newly exalted Mt.Zion is prepared, work will probably begin on the foundations of the Temple. Yeshua will most probably oversee the work guiding and instructing just as Solomon did when his own temple was being erected. The materials for the Temple will be provided by both natural Jew and also Gentile (Isa.60: 5,6,9-11, 13,17) The Temple will be built in the Holy Oblation in a section of Land approximately 56 miles square (Ezekiel 48:20), occupying practically all of Judah's ancient territory and will be set apart for the specific purpose of divine worship. This territory will be divided into profane (Ezek.48:15), holy (v14) and most holy (v 12) sections. the southernmost portion given to the city where visitors to the land will be housed pending their call to the Temple for worship. The central section given over to the Levites. The northermost sector for the Sons of Zadok. East and West of the Holy Oblation for the Prince's portion.

Sorry it's a bit long! I think this is fascinating and is just so wonderful.

[visionary]

I agree that the topography of the Land has to be changed and this is obviously caused by a super huge earthquake which topples every structure in the land so that a massive clean up will be undertaken to cleanse the land and prepare it for the process of rebuilding. Once the area around the newly exalted Mt.Zion is prepared, work will probably begin on the foundations of the Temple. Yeshua will most probably oversee the work guiding and instructing just as Solomon did when his own temple was being erected. The materials for the Temple will be provided by both natural Jew and also Gentile (Isa.60: 5,6,9-11, 13,17) The Temple will be built in the Holy Oblation in a section of Land approximately 56 miles square (Ezekiel 48:20), occupying practically all of Judah's ancient territory and will be set apart for the specific purpose of divine worship. This territory will be divided into profane (Ezek.48:15), holy (v14) and most holy (v 12) sections. the southernmost portion given to the city where visitors to the land will be housed pending their call to the Temple for worship. The central section given over to the Levites. The northermost sector for the Sons of Zadok. East and West of the Holy Oblation for the Prince's portion.

Sorry it's a bit long! I think this is fascinating and is just so wonderful.Wow you have done some serious study into the subject.

[sabar]

Wow you have done some serious study into the subject.
It was a Bible Class some years ago! Reading about the Temple just makes the L-rd's words so profound and real. I know that many people think this Temple relates to the spiritual but why would Ezekiel go to so much trouble in describing it in such minute detail if this were so? This to me speaks of a real Temple, with real people. This is the Land that Israel was meant to inherit as G-d's people.

In that date shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE L-RD; and the pots in the L-rd's house shall be like the bowls before the altar. Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the L-rd of hosts; and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the L-rd of hosts.

My understanding is that during the Millenial reign of Yeshua, there will be a need for a Temple complete with sacrifices for the mortal population. After the 1000 year reign when YWWH Elohim is 'all in all,' then the New Jerusalem will be established in all the earth and the L-rd will dwell with man. Amein to that thought!

[Sephania]

I agree that the topography of the Land has to be changed and this is obviously caused by a super huge earthquake which topples every structure in the land so that a massive clean up will be undertaken to cleanse the land and prepare it for the process of rebuilding. Once the area around the newly exalted Mt.Zion is prepared, work will probably begin on the foundations of the Temple. Yeshua will most probably oversee the work guiding and instructing just as Solomon did when his own temple was being erected. The materials for the Temple will be provided by both natural Jew and also Gentile (Isa.60: 5,6,9-11, 13,17) The Temple will be built in the Holy Oblation in a section of Land approximately 56 miles square (Ezekiel 48:20), occupying practically all of Judah's ancient territory and will be set apart for the specific purpose of divine worship. This territory will be divided into profane (Ezek.48:15), holy (v14) and most holy (v 12) sections. the southernmost portion given to the city where visitors to the land will be housed pending their call to the Temple for worship. The central section given over to the Levites. The northermost sector for the Sons of Zadok. East and West of the Holy Oblation for the Prince's portion.

Sorry it's a bit long! I think this is fascinating and is just so wonderful.Isn't Ezekiel's temple the one that is supposed to come down from heaven?

[Sephania]

Visionary what did you think of those commontaries?

[sabar]

Isn't Ezekiel's temple the one that is supposed to come down from heaven?
No, during Messiah's 1,000 year reign there will be a mortal population. The New Temple will be for them - after the 1,000 year reign, then the Temple will be replaced by the New Jerusalem. I will try and sort out some more information on this.

[sabar]

Isn't Ezekiel's temple the one that is supposed to come down from heaven?
Just a little more information that I have on Ezekiel's Temple. The temple will be needed for those who survive Armageddon and the aftermath of G-d's vengeance on the earth. Israel will be elevated to Head of the Nations and of course the Temple will sit in Jerusalem. Solomon was a 'type' of Christ during his early reign - Solomon subdued the surrounding nations just as Yeshua will do. His wisdom and prosperity coupled with the magnificent Temple which he built for YHWH in Jerusalem attracted nations near and far to pay their tribute and bestow gifts upon him - so it will be when Yeshua returns and reigns over all nations.

Interestingly those visitors visiting the Temple from the Northern and Southern gates will have to pass through water (from the living water emanating from under the altar). Thus baptism will have its counterpart in the age to come for the mortal worshippers so that when they approach the place of worship, they will be ritually clean. There will be both compulsory and voluntary pilgrimages to the Land (Zech. 14:16; Zech. 8:21,22) and services of various kinds will be continuous throughout the year (Isa.66:23)

I believe after the 1,000 year reign of Yeshua and the saints, the New Jerusalem will be a figurative one because, 'I saw no temple therein; for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.' The mighty spirit-power of AIL and the Lamb will be the temple wall in and around the city. 'For I, saith YHWH will be unto her (Jerusalem) a wall of fire round about, and will be the glory in the midst of her.' (Zech 2:5)

[Sephania]

How do you understand this:

Rev 22
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

[sabar]

How do you understand this:

Rev 22
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Isn't this when YHWH is all in all? Was it not the intention of YHWH in the beginning to fill the earth with His glory - 'from the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same, YHWH's name is to be praised.' This surely is the fulfilment of His Plan with this earth. This is the glory of the spirit of Ail-Elohim that is to deck the 'new' heavens of the Millenial Aion with splendor and beauty.

[visionary]

Is that when He moves His headquarters to earth making Heaven on Earth?

[Sephania]

Isn't this when YHWH is all in all? Was it not the intention of YHWH in the beginning to fill the earth with His glory - 'from the rising of the sun unto the going down of the same, YHWH's name is to be praised.' This surely is the fulfilment of His Plan with this earth. This is the glory of the spirit of Ail-Elohim that is to deck the 'new' heavens of the Millenial Aion with splendor and beauty.

I guess what is throwing me here is this:

In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.


There is still goyim, thus a distinction between Jew and gentile still, and if this is eternity, why is healing still needed?

I'm sorry, :sorry: I just realized you are not a MJ and I shouldn't be asking you to answer this, I dont' think this is an open topic. :blush:

[sabar]

How do you understand this:

Rev 22
1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb. 2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. 3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: 4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads. 5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.
Sorry I also meant to say that in the previous chapter, Revelation 21 and verse 22, the Revelator states, 'and I saw NO temple therein; for the L-rd G-d Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.' It would seem that there will be no literal temple made of stone etc, the New Jerusalem is a city and not a temple. The Greek for 'city' (with walls) is polis and the Greek for 'temple' is naos which also has the meaning of 'inner sanctuary' which reveals quite a bit!

[sabar]

I guess what is throwing me here is this:


There is still goyim, thus a distinction between Jew and gentile still, and if this is eternity, why is healing still needed?

I'm sorry, :sorry: I just realized you are not a MJ and I shouldn't be asking you to answer this, I dont' think this is an open topic. :blush:
sorry I am almost a MJ!! I won't say anymore cos don't want to get told off!!!

[Sephania]

I just didn't want you to get into trouble. :hug: But I appreciate your insights! :)

[sabar]

I just didn't want you to get into trouble. :hug: But I appreciate your insights! :)
Thanks, I am sorry I got carried away!

[visionary]

sorry I am almost a MJ!! I won't say anymore cos don't want to get told off!!!Can we get a mini intro from you so that you can tell us about this... don't want to disrupt the theme of the thread but would love to hear your testimony.

[LittleLambofJesus]

Is that when He moves His headquarters to earth making Heaven on Earth?I felt His "headquaters" was in His chosen Body of Believers? Is this the view of all messianics? Peace.

Hebrew 9:22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the general assembly and church of the firstborn [who are] registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant,

[Sephania]

Come let us go up to Zion!

Come Let Us Go Up to Zion
Come let us go up to Zion
Let us draw near
To the Lord our God;
Come let us go up to Zion
Let us draw near
To the presence of the Lord. (repeat)

You have not come To a desert mountain,
But you have come To the Living God;
You have come To the Heavenly city
The new Jerusalem.
And there are thousands and thousands of angels
Rejoicing before the throne;
This is the Kingdom that cannot be shaken,
worship God alone

Come let us go up to Zion
Let us draw near
To the Lord our God;
Come let us go up to Zion
Let us draw near
To the presence of the Lord.

You have come To the Judge of the ages
Unto Jesus and to His blood;
You have come to the church of the firstborn
And to the righteous ones.
And there are thousands
And thousands of mighty angels
before the Throne
This is the Kingdom That cannot be shaken,
Worship God alone.

Come let us go up to Zion
Let us draw near
To the Lord our God;
Come let us go up to Zion
Let us draw near
To the presence of the Lord.
Let us draw near
To the presence of the Lord.


Worship , G-d Alone!!!!!! :clap:

[sabar]

Can we get a mini intro from you so that you can tell us about this... don't want to disrupt the theme of the thread but would love to hear your testimony.
I guess you are wondering why I said 'almost' a MJ! My spiritual roots have always been based on the theme that G-d's Plan was firstly with Israel, that the Promises made to Abraham were then extended to the Gentiles because of Israel's blindness (in part) to Messiah. I was baptised 26 years ago into the Apostolic faith, which is strongly pro-Israel and we support Jewish charities, pray for the peace of Jerusalem and also proclaim Yeshua as Israel's Redeemer. Both my hubby and self left because of man-made rules and regulations that began to creep in. I am searching Messianic Judaism because I feel that G-d is turning me that way. Both my husband and self read the Scriptures daily (always Old and New, lol) and find great comfort and support from our knowledge of G-d's ultimate Plan with the earth. We have been Breaking Bread at home but we do not observe the Sabbath as such. This is part of my journey and searching at the present time. I do apologise though for letting go with my views....I keep forgetting that this part of the forum is only for practising Messianics - now if you want to make this OPEN!!

[visionary]

We will have to make some of the threads open so tha tyou can post....

[Sephania]

Thanks for your intro sabar! :)