Splitting thread from Question about Bible

[HumbleMan]

I'm splitting this off from the bible thread, as we've hijacked that one long enough.


It's necessary to know that jesus was a Perfect sacrfice. I do agree that is not necessary to know the entire bible but understanding Jesus was a perfect sacrifice is part of the major reason why he had to die for our sins.

I can't argue with that. I guess I just see it from a different angle.

I believe we accept Christ when we acknowledge that we can't do one thing to change our lives, that we are imperfect and need Him. When we put our faith in Him. To me, that is the moment of conversion. And we are like newborn children, needing to learn everything anew. You can certainly have knowledge of His divinity and perfection beforehand, but it's once we place our faith in Him that we come to Him.

[General_Peanut]

I guess ia m looking at from the point of to be saved your absolutley right...we just need to put faith in jesus and know that he died for our sins... but i think after you accept that or in the process of knowing what you are accepting it is important to understand that He was the perfect sacrifice. So i guess we were in agreement just looking at it differently...enjoyed the discussion.

[HumbleMan]

...enjoyed the discussion.

Same here. It's nice to be able to lay out your beliefs and have a discussion without it degrading into a shouting match.

[General_Peanut]

Amen!!!

[RajunCajun86]

it is of extreme importance that we take the bible literally and acknowledge that all Scripture is inspired by God and we must read in context...and what context you ask...well beginning to end...it's a book comprehend it as such...the virgin birth is very important to the prophecies that Jesus HAD to fulfill to be Messiah and therefore be able to forgive us of our sins...John 3:16 is clear on what is required for salvation, but being a Christian goes far beyond salvation

New American Standard (the most accurate english translation)
New King James Version (just a good read)
let us edify one another

[HumbleMan]

it is of extreme importance that we take the bible literally and acknowledge that all Scripture is inspired by God and we must read in context...and what context you ask...well beginning to end...it's a book comprehend it as such...the virgin birth is very important to the prophecies that Jesus HAD to fulfill to be Messiah and therefore be able to forgive us of our sins...John 3:16 is clear on what is required for salvation, but being a Christian goes far beyond salvation

New American Standard (the most accurate english translation)
New King James Version (just a good read)

This is very true.

The way I'm looking at it, though, is that at the moment we have faith, true faith, in Christ as our Lord and Savior, we are born again. That is all that's required for salvation. Everything else is discipleship.

[RajunCajun86]

This is very true.

The way I'm looking at it, though, is that at the moment we have faith, true faith, in Christ as our Lord and Savior, we are born again. That is all that's required for salvation. Everything else is discipleship.
yeah you are right on there...John 3:16 is all that is needed for slavation...but after salvation there is baptism, and knowing what He expects of us, learning His commandments, His commission, etc, etc, etc

[ZiSunka]

I believe we accept Christ when we acknowledge that we can't do one thing to change our lives, that we are imperfect and need Him. When we put our faith in Him. To me, that is the moment of conversion. And we are like newborn children, needing to learn everything anew. You can certainly have knowledge of His divinity and perfection beforehand, but it's once we place our faith in Him that we come to Him.

I think if you know you are a sinner, if you believe that Jesus Christ came to earth and made himself the sacrifice for our sins, if you confess that you are asking Christ to save you, and if you determine to follow His teachings the best way you can, then yes, no matter how imperfect your knowledge, that is the moment of conversion. That is the point at which old things pass away and you become a whole new person. I agree wholeheartedly that it is when we each put our faith in Him to save us, no matter what came before, that we have truly come to saving faith.:)

[mlqurgw]

Christ told us clearly what eternal life is, which is what salvation is, in John 17:3. It is knowing the only true God and Jesus Christ. Knowledge is essential to salvation. In 1Cor. 15:1-4 Paul shows us what the Gospel he preached was. It was how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures and that He was buried and rose again according to the Scriptures. We do need more than John 3:16. The Pharisees missed Christ because they didn't know Him. John 1:26 He simply didn't fit what they were expecting.

[HumbleMan]

Christ told us clearly what eternal life is, which is what salvation is, in John 17:3. It is knowing the only true God and Jesus Christ. Knowledge is essential to salvation. In 1Cor. 15:1-4 Paul shows us what the Gospel he preached was. It was how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures and that He was buried and rose again according to the Scriptures. We do need more than John 3:16. The Pharisees missed Christ because they didn't know Him. John 1:26 He simply didn't fit what they were expecting.
I understand your view, but I'm wondering where faith comes in.

Do we have to have faith that He died for us, or that He rose? Or do we have to have faith in Him as our Lord and Savior because we know we can't rule our own lives?

I've known people who've come to Christ because they couldn't go on any longer, and once they've placed their faith and trust in Him, learned about all the rest.

[RajunCajun86]

I understand your view, but I'm wondering where faith comes in.

Do we have to have faith that He died for us, or that He rose? Or do we have to have faith in Him as our Lord and Savior because we know we can't rule our own lives?

I've known people who've come to Christ because they couldn't go on any longer, and once they've placed their faith and trust in Him, learned about all the rest.
and you are correct here one must have faith in the:
Birth of Jesus Christ
Life of Jesus Christ
Death of Jesus Christ
Resurrection of Jesus Christ
beleive on these things and that there is no other way, confess their need for a Savior and that Jesus is that Savior...you are right that many things we will not learn till the Holy Spirit reveals it to us...and we don't get the Holy Spirit till after Salvation...but once again we must recognize Christ as He told us to to be saved

[mlqurgw]

I understand your view, but I'm wondering where faith comes in.

Do we have to have faith that He died for us, or that He rose? Or do we have to have faith in Him as our Lord and Savior because we know we can't rule our own lives?

I've known people who've come to Christ because they couldn't go on any longer, and once they've placed their faith and trust in Him, learned about all the rest.Of course here lies the difference between the "Calvinist" and the " Arminian". I don't want to turn this thread into a Calvinist /Arminian debate so I will just say my piece and let it alone. What is faith in Christ? What are you trusting if you are not trusting in the Person and work of Christ? In Rom. 10 Paul tells us that whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. What is the name of the Lord? His name is who He is. When you read my name on these boards something comes to your mind, whatever your impression of me is as you have gained by contact with me. To you that is who I am. Calling on the name of the Lord is more than just saying His name. It is believing He is who He said He was and believing He did what He said He came to do. Paul goes on to ask, how shall they call on Him of whom they have not heard and how shall they hear without a preacher. That takes us back to the passage in 1Cor. 15:1-4 There are at least 2 things you must know to be saved: Who Christ is and who you are. We do learn all the other stuff as we grow but you simply cannot trust someone you don't know anything about.

[Robinsegg]

I'll suggest that Paul is clear on what the moment of conversion looks like:
8 But what does it say? "The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart," that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. Romans 10:8-10 (NIV)
However, I do believe that the confession will come only when we come to the realization that we are sinful and need His help or need a relationship with Him.

In Him,
Rachel

[JPPT1974]

and you are correct here one must have faith in the:
Birth of Jesus Christ
Life of Jesus Christ
Death of Jesus Christ
Resurrection of Jesus Christ
beleive on these things and that there is no other way, confess their need for a Savior and that Jesus is that Savior...you are right that many things we will not learn till the Holy Spirit reveals it to us...and we don't get the Holy Spirit till after Salvation...but once again we must recognize Christ as He told us to to be saved

Amen to that my friend
The one and only way to get to heaven
And to God the Father
Is through Jesus Christ as Savior & Lord!!