I just wanted to share this with everyone...

[Michael the Iconographer]

I totally forgot to get my parents an Easter Card and not wanting to settle for an un-Orthodox Easter Card, I decided to make one myself. Thus I did a quick sketch of part of the Anastasis Icon using a sharpie fine point marker. This is the result.

[EricTheRed]

I couldnt draw that it a month. Then again my specialty is stick figures. Well done :thumbsup:

[Khaleas]

That's awesome!:clap:

I've got to brag too... I got a blessing to continue my embroidery. :thumbsup: Father was already putting in orders... I told him I'll be done with all that in like 2009 or 2010. :D Haha, and Russian vestments have cardboard in them to keep the shoulder part stiff and standing up. Hi-tech... :P So now we can geek out together... :sorry:

[Michael the Iconographer]

That's awesome!:clap:

I've got to brag too... I got a blessing to continue my embroidery. :thumbsup: Father was already putting in orders... I told him I'll be done with all that in like 2009 or 2010. :D Haha, and Russian vestments have cardboard in them to keep the shoulder part stiff and standing up. Hi-tech... :P So now we can geek out together... :sorry:

My counted cross stitched icon of the Holy Mandylion of Edessa that my sister is doing for me on a towel to cover my Pascha basket will not be done in time for Pascha '06. I guess it will be ready for next years.

Thank you both for the compliments. If I told you how quickly I was able to sketch that you might believe me.

[Annoula]

hmmm..... you may as well have a talent in iconography...

hmmmmmm.....you may as well be a good iconographer one day.........!


:D :D :D :D

[Michael the Iconographer]

hmmm..... you may as well have a talent in iconography...

hmmmmmm.....you may as well be a good iconographer one day.........!


:D :D :D :D

You are funny. The thing about that which amazed me is I did that in about 15 minutes.

[Annoula]

You are funny. The thing about that which amazed me is I did that in about 15 minutes.


hmm....... you are maybe getting better and better... quicker and quicker...

sorry if i am teasing you... i mean no harm... i try to be a peacefull animal in general....


( i may be peaceful but i think i have high fever right now... ouf... so i maybe saying nonsense as well... sorry, it's not personal, it's probably feverish...ouf...)

[Mary of Bethany]

That is beautiful, Michael!! :thumbsup:

Mary

[Dewi Sant]

That is lovely. Thanks for sharing it with us.


I didn't buy anyone Easter cards (for western Easter) because it annoys me to see that they all have bunnies and chickens on them. :sigh:
Instead I just wished them Happy Easter and threw chocolate at them.



Pascha is only 6 days and two hours away :)

[Michael the Iconographer]

That is lovely. Thanks for sharing it with us.


I didn't buy anyone Easter cards (for western Easter) because it annoys me to see that they all have bunnies and chickens on them. :sigh:


That was the reason for me drawing the card for them. I could have done a much, much more accurate job, but didn't have much time and am not a fan of doing festal icons in a 4x6 format.

[ClementofRome]

That was the reason for me drawing the card for them. I could have done a much, much more accurate job, but didn't have much time and am not a fan of doing festal icons in a 4x6 format.

A beautiful piece....really. Very inspiring. I would be interested in a set of pen and ink cards annually in celebration of our Lord's resurrection. Just a thought.

[tall73]

This may sound out there, and I don't intend it to be, but what is the Church's position, if any, on electronic usage of icons?

I know icons are generally created with specific materials. But it is pretty plain that you all use them in your avatars, in printed form etc.

Does an icon have to be done traditionally first? Is it considered in poor taste or worse to do one digitally?

[Michael the Iconographer]

This may sound out there, and I don't intend it to be, but what is the Church's position, if any, on electronic usage of icons?

I know icons are generally created with specific materials. But it is pretty plain that you all use them in your avatars, in printed form etc.

Does an icon have to be done traditionally first? Is it considered in poor taste or worse to do one digitally?

An icon is only an icon when it is used for the purpose of prayer. Art that looks like an icon and has not been blessed and venerated is not an icon. Thus art created digitally while looking like an icon, is not an icon, and should be avoided at all costs.

[Dewi Sant]

I think that writing an icon is a prayerful activity. It isn't art in the general sense.

I think that is why the distinction is made between "writing" an icon rather than "painting" an icon.



Michael will have more to say (the spotlights on you Michael ^_^...aren't I kind :P)

[Dewi Sant]

oops appeared we both typed at the same time

[Michael the Iconographer]

A beautiful piece....really. Very inspiring. I would be interested in a set of pen and ink cards annually in celebration of our Lord's resurrection. Just a thought.

Once I get enough cash, I might actually think about doing that. Unfortunately, to get the cards at a rate that is reasonable enough for me to make a profit off them, I have to order 2500 at a time. Of course I would spend alot more time drawing that icon. The Nativity Cards that I made last year went over very well. Those were, however, full color.

[ClementofRome]

An icon is only an icon when it is used for the purpose of prayer. Art that looks like an icon and has not been blessed and venerated is not an icon. Thus art created digitally while looking like an icon, is not an icon, and should be avoided at all costs.

Michael,
Would you be kind enough to elaborate on this. I think I know what you mean, but there might be confusion. Many Orthodox sites sell "Prints" mounted and sold as icons. Yes they may have been blessed and such, but they are still prints. What might be the difference between a piece that was produced digitally and blessed and used for prayer?

Just a thought. Forgive me.
Clem

PS...did you get my PM?

[MariaRegina]

I have seen (even at the SCOBA websites) crops of icons that were artistically put together. Although we cannot venerate them online, they can be a source of prayer.

Take a look at Orthodox Church

[Michael the Iconographer]

Michael,
Would you be kind enough to elaborate on this. I think I know what you mean, but there might be confusion. Many Orthodox sites sell "Prints" mounted and sold as icons. Yes they may have been blessed and such, but they are still prints. What might be the difference between a piece that was produced digitally and blessed and used for prayer?

Just a thought. Forgive me.
Clem

PS...did you get my PM?

There is a big difference between digitally creating an image and a mounted print. Hard line Orthodox will tell you the print is not an icon either. I am not one of those. The print is made an icon by the blessing of the priest and the prayers prayed before it. A digital image can not be used in a liturgical manner, and it can't be prayed over while being created, so in no way shape or form can it possibily be made an icon. What is holy is holy for the sure reason it has come in contact with God. Thus the writing of an icon makes it holy, the blessing does, and the veneration of the icon does as well. Prints can be made holy, but an image created on a computer cant be prayed over while being created, because it is not real. The canons make it clear icons must be made on a stable surface, but a computer monitor is not a stable surface. Icons must be made of a natural substance (I can argue that acryllic paint is natural), but a computer monitor is not natural.

Yes, I did get your PM and will respond to you in a day or so. I have been very busy lately.

[Michael the Iconographer]

I have seen (even at the SCOBA websites) crops of icons that were artistically put together. Although we cannot venerate them online, they can be a source of prayer.

Take a look at Orthodox Church

I will draw the line here. Icon prints made from painted icons are icons. Prints made digitally that look like icons are NOT icons. They do not fall in line with any of the canons of iconography.

[tall73]

An icon is only an icon when it is used for the purpose of prayer. Art that looks like an icon and has not been blessed and venerated is not an icon. Thus art created digitally while looking like an icon, is not an icon, and should be avoided at all costs.

ok, second question, and perhaps I should have re-worded the first. I understand (though certainly not completely) that other representatins would not be icons, and that there is a prayer element to it.

I guess what I am wondering is why they use digitial representations of what I assume are existing icons.

Is that considered ok to do? It seems pretty common.

And if you do a pen drawing of an icon, while it is certainly not an icon, I assume it is acceptable to do?

I guess I was just surprised after reading in your earlier icon thread how carefully things are done to see that some use icons in their avatar etc.

ah..I seem to have missed some posts...reading them now.

[tall73]

Once I get enough cash, I might actually think about doing that. Unfortunately, to get the cards at a rate that is reasonable enough for me to make a profit off them, I have to order 2500 at a time. Of course I would spend alot more time drawing that icon. The Nativity Cards that I made last year went over very well. Those were, however, full color.

What print source do you go through?

[Michael the Iconographer]

ok, second question, and perhaps I should have re-worded the first. I understand (though certainly not completely) that other representatins would not be icons, and that there is a prayer element to it.

I guess what I am wondering is why they use digitial representations of what I assume are existing icons.

Is that considered ok to do? It seems pretty common.

And if you do a pen drawing of an icon, while it is certainly not an icon, I assume it is acceptable to do?

I guess I was just surprised after reading in your earlier icon thread how carefully things are done to see that some use icons in their avatar etc.

ah..I seem to have missed some posts...reading them now.

Because they are not venerated, they are not really icons. Just iconographic art. I use the icon in my avatar because I am an iconographer. Maybe I should change that? A pen drawing again, is iconographic art and not actually an icon. Icons are icons because of the intermediary role they play in prayer.

[Michael the Iconographer]

What print source do you go through?

An online place in Florida. I could get smaller runs, but then I would have to charge ALOT for the cards to make any money off them. I mean I would have to charge about $2.00 a card or more, and ppl dont want to pay that much per card.

[MariaRegina]

I will draw the line here. Icon prints made from painted icons are icons. Prints made digitally that look like icons are NOT icons. They do not fall in line with any of the canons of iconography.

Michael,

I am not talking about digitally creating icons.

What I am speaking about is taking a valid icon 'print' and then cropping it to fit into a type of collage for the purposes of evangelization.

I have seen this respectfully done on several SCOBA websites.

In Christ,
Elizabeth

[tall73]

Because they are not venerated, they are not really icons. Just iconographic art. I use the icon in my avatar because I am an iconographer. Maybe I should change that? A pen drawing again, is iconographic art and not actually an icon. Icons are icons because of the intermediary role they play in prayer.

Thanks for clarifying.

So iconic art, in its own right is not forbidden, as long as everyone knows it is not for prayer?

And other forms of art are assumedly alright as well?

I have never considered doing anything like an icon, and never would unless I change several theological views. But I am just curious how things work, and what the prayer process is. (Though I do like the thought of doing religious art).

And as for these images, I was surprised but I still find it educational. If it doesn't bother you it certainly doesn't me.

[tall73]

An online place in Florida. I could get smaller runs, but then I would have to charge ALOT for the cards to make any money off them. I mean I would have to charge about $2.00 a card or more, and ppl dont want to pay that much per card.

Have you ever checked out Vistaprint.com?

I have made a number of flyer/postcard orders from them and they do good work for fairly cheap. I Also got some cards for mailing to family recently. The only time they messed up they fixed it on the phone quickly and at no cost to me and I still got the stuff in time.



Here is their cost chart for cards:
http://www.vistaprint.com/vp/ns/consumer/splash/notecard_combined.aspx?xnav=TsrImage#here

It would cost $98 with shipping for 500 (might be a slight fee of one dollar or so to upload your art work). So that is about .$20 each before you take your cut and ship...depending on your overhead and desired prophet margin...

[Michael the Iconographer]

Have you ever checked out Vistaprint.com?

I have made a number of flyer/postcard orders from them and they do good work for fairly cheap. I Also got some cards for mailing to family recently. The only time they messed up they fixed it on the phone quickly and at no cost to me and I still got the stuff in time.



Here is their cost chart for cards:
http://www.vistaprint.com/vp/ns/consumer/splash/notecard_combined.aspx?xnav=TsrImage#here

It would cost $98 with shipping for 500 (might be a slight fee of one dollar or so to upload your art work). So that is about .$20 each before you take your cut and ship...depending on your overhead and desired prophet margin...

The place I get them made costs $300 for 2500 cards, and thus even after my markup I can charge $10 per box of 10.

[tall73]

The place I get them made costs $300 for 2500 cards, and thus even after my markup I can charge $10 per box of 10.

ah nice deal then :)

at that quantity Vistaprint would be $340 with shipping.

[Michael the Iconographer]

ah nice deal then :)

at that quantity Vistaprint would be $340 with shipping.

Yes, the place I use has the best deal of anywhere I found, and I did look all over. They also do a beautiful job on the cards.

[tall73]

I just realized for all my questions I didn't comment on the actual work.

Nice drawing there! I think the hardest part for me would be just trying to get those circles right!

Long flowing lines in proportion are no easy trick with a marker.

[Michael the Iconographer]

Thanks for clarifying.

So iconic art, in its own right is not forbidden, as long as everyone knows it is not for prayer?

And other forms of art are assumedly alright as well?

I have never considered doing anything like an icon, and never would unless I change several theological views. But I am just curious how things work, and what the prayer process is. (Though I do like the thought of doing religious art).

And as for these images, I was surprised but I still find it educational. If it doesn't bother you it certainly doesn't me.

Iconic art is not forbidden, but needs to be carefully done. Posting icons on line for educational purposes is ok, but using an actual icon as a mere piece of art is not a good thing. Other art, well, that is a whole different thread. There are a few schools of thought on it, especially depending on what form that art follows. As for the creation of iconography, it is something that rightfully is highly gaurded by the Orthodox Church, and for good reasons.

[Michael the Iconographer]

I just realized for all my questions I didn't comment on the actual work.

Nice drawing there! I think the hardest part for me would be just trying to get those circles right!

Long flowing lines in proportion are no easy trick with a marker.

Thank you. I used a pencil compass first, then went over them with a marker. I have learned to do long flowing lines in icons. That is pretty much a necessity.