Someday it would be nice if people who left Anglicanism would not take potshots back

[Ebor]

I hope I'm not out of line starting a thread when I'm so new here. I am at the point where I need an emoticon of banging my head on a keyboard or a wall.

I *really* wish that Anglicans who leave to go to other Churchs, (I'm sorry but particularly the RC or the EO) would stop making insulting or patronizing or maligning remarks about Anglicans, Episcopalians, Our worship, our music, our liturgy or anything else. <Grrrrrrr>

This seems to be a problem in particular with converts. I have never had such from cradle EO for example.

It's getting very tiresome. Also, would they stop and think about something: Do they *really* believe that such bad behaviour is 1) going to convince any who have not left that their Church is the Right one? reflect well on their chosen Church? Is proper Charitable behaviour? I have seen too many responses of "We have the Truth(tm), we have to tell Those who aren't like us. If we were courteous or charitable, those others would think that they were OK." sorts of lines.

Ebor

[karen freeinchristman]

I hope I'm not out of line starting a thread when I'm so new here. I am at the point where I need an emoticon of banging my head on a keyboard or a wall.

I *really* wish that Anglicans who leave to go to other Churchs, (I'm sorry but particularly the RC or the EO) would stop making insulting or patronizing or maligning remarks about Anglicans, Episcopalians, Our worship, our music, our liturgy or anything else. <Grrrrrrr>

This seems to be a problem in particular with converts. I have never had such from cradle EO for example.

It's getting very tiresome. Also, would they stop and think about something: Do they *really* believe that such bad behaviour is 1) going to convince any who have not left that their Church is the Right one? reflect well on their chosen Church? Is proper Charitable behaviour? I have seen too many responses of "We have the Truth(tm), we have to tell Those who aren't like us. If we were courteous or charitable, those others would think that they were OK." sorts of lines.

Ebor

I'm right behind you on this one, Ebor! :thumbsup:

[ContraMundum]

This seems to be a problem in particular with converts. I have never had such from cradle EO for example.

True, or cradle RC's, Protestants or whoever. It's about converts, who seem to walk a fine frayed end of sanity between trying to convince us that they're right and trying to convince themselves that they're right. Why they need so desperately to have the feeling of being "right" validated by others says something about their decision, IMHO.

[Ebor]

I have just remembered an old story that might illustrate what I wish the people who change Churches would do: I have heard it from both Christian and Zen sources:

Two monks are walking down the road. They come to a large mud puddle that totally covers the path and a young woman is there trying to find a way across. The older monk picks her up, carries her across to safety and then continues on with the other monk. Some miles later, the young monk says "Brother, We monks are supposed to avoid any temptations with women." The older monk replies, "I put that girl down miles ago, Brother. Why are you still carrying her?"

Ebor

[Ebor]

True, or cradle RC's, Protestants or whoever. It's about converts, who seem to walk a fine frayed end of sanity between trying to convince us that they're right and trying to convince themselves that they're right. Why they need so desperately to have the feeling of being "right" validated by others says something about their decision, IMHO.

Indeed. Well, there's the idea of "The more people who agree with me, that *proves* that I'm Right(tm)."

Frankly, is seems that there are some Churches who act as though they own God.

Ebor

[PaladinValer]

I hope a certain...someone...is reading this.

Good post.

[Naomi4Christ]

I hear what you say, Ebor. But I guess I just shake my head and move on. Christ has left us with plenty of work to do without worrying about petty differences in the practice of our faith.

[karen freeinchristman]

Two monks are walking down the road. They come to a large mud puddle that totally covers the path and a young woman is there trying to find a way across. The older monk picks her up, carries her across to safety and then continues on with the other monk. Some miles later, the young monk says "Brother, We monks are supposed to avoid any temptations with women." The older monk replies, "I put that girl down miles ago, Brother. Why are you still carrying her?"


What a great story! :)

[higgs2]

I hope I'm not out of line starting a thread when I'm so new here. I am at the point where I need an emoticon of banging my head on a keyboard or a wall.

I *really* wish that Anglicans who leave to go to other Churchs, (I'm sorry but particularly the RC or the EO) would stop making insulting or patronizing or maligning remarks about Anglicans, Episcopalians, Our worship, our music, our liturgy or anything else. <Grrrrrrr>

This seems to be a problem in particular with converts. I have never had such from cradle EO for example.

It's getting very tiresome. Also, would they stop and think about something: Do they *really* believe that such bad behaviour is 1) going to convince any who have not left that their Church is the Right one? reflect well on their chosen Church? Is proper Charitable behaviour? I have seen too many responses of "We have the Truth(tm), we have to tell Those who aren't like us. If we were courteous or charitable, those others would think that they were OK." sorts of lines.

Ebor
Don't worry. They'll be converting to something else before you know it. It's endemic here.

[Naomi4Christ]

Don't worry. They'll be converting to something else before you know it. It's endemic here.

I think you are right! I've only been at CF for 6 months, but I have seen a lot of switching. :)

[fragmentsofdreams]

It's convertitis. It seems to be human nature to be overly critical of what one has left behind.

[Ebor]

I haven't been around here very long, so I don't know about what has happened.

I was thinking of other sites and blogs where the former Episcopalian/Anglican can't 'put it down' as it were. They keep posting about "oh look at what those Anglicans are doing." (and how they're Wrong) or "We don't do things like those Episcopalians that I left." or "Now that I'm in the Real Church(tm) I have the Truth(tm) unlike those who haven't left to join me." sort of thing.

I apologize for sounding wound up about it all. I find myself wondering if such doings are a kind of gloating or 'cheap righteousness' way of feeling superior or schadenfreude.

Ebor

[Ebor]

It's convertitis. It seems to be human nature to be overly critical of what one has left behind.

Well, one question is "Why do they feel it necessary to do it?" To shove away any feelings suggesting that they shouldn't have done it? To bolster one's feelings of that it was the right thing to do?

Just because something is human nature doesn't always make it a good thing to do, maybe.

Ebor

[Naomi4Christ]

I haven't been around here very long, so I don't know about what has happened.

I was thinking of other sites and blogs where the former Episcopalian/Anglican can't 'put it down' as it were. They keep posting about "oh look at what those Anglicans are doing." (and how they're Wrong) or "We don't do things like those Episcopalians that I left." or "Now that I'm in the Real Church(tm) I have the Truth(tm) unlike those who haven't left to join me." sort of thing.

I apologize for sounding wound up about it all. I find myself wondering if such doings are a kind of gloating or 'cheap righteousness' way of feeling superior or schadenfreude.

Ebor

We must pray for them.. They have a spiritual hunger - a God shaped gap.

[Ebor]

We must pray for them.. They have a spiritual hunger - a God shaped gap.

And yet one common phrase is that they now have the "fullness" of Christianity. That the Church they have decided to join has everything and nothing is lacking, unlike the Anglicans. Frankly, sometimes they sound like they Own God.

I have never in over 30 years as an Episcopalian (converted in college) heard that Anglicanism was the *Only* true church.

We must pray, indeed. But sometimes I also want to bang my head on the keyboard ("get the logo shaped dent in my forehead" as someone I know said ;) )

Ebor

[fragmentsofdreams]

Well, one question is "Why do they feel it necessary to do it?" To shove away any feelings suggesting that they shouldn't have done it? To bolster one's feelings of that it was the right thing to do?

Just because something is human nature doesn't always make it a good thing to do, maybe.

Ebor

It's definitely not a good thing to do. I suspect it has to do with lingering doubts about one's conversion.

[Lilium]

I agree...it's a human tendancy rather than just an ex-Anglican tendancy. I'm guilty of it myself as I've taken potshots at numerous things...though Anglicanism hasn't come into my firing line yet :D All my potshoting does take place in an online blog too..and not the one here either.

As for reasons why...for me some of it was anger, at others and at myself. I usually take potshots at things when I'm looking back and thinking "how could I have done/said/thought that? How could I have been so flipping *stupid*?!?!" So more often than not it's sheer anger at myself and the things I've done that leads me to start ranting about them. Sometimes it's also my way of trying to convince myself that whatever new direction I'm taking is right...I know it's not but I try to convince myself it is anyway and part of that includes taking potshots and basically picking apart the previous direction I was heading in.

So yeah, unfortunately it's not unique to those leaving Anglicanism...'tis human nature, though of course that doesn't make it ok.

[Called2Grace]

I have found that since making the decision to convert from Anglicanism to Catholocism I have become more 'inclusive' I guess you could say. Most recently it has finally sunk in that it doesn't really matter which way you go, as long as you have love and show love to your fellow man. I guess you could say be the love/light of Christ to other human beings. All the stuff that we (as christians) fight with each other about is just minor compared to what we should be doing. You love God, I love God, lets all just get along :) Just because I show my love by praying this prayer and you pray a different pray makes no difference.

[Called2Grace]

I have just remembered an old story that might illustrate what I wish the people who change Churches would do: I have heard it from both Christian and Zen sources:

Two monks are walking down the road. They come to a large mud puddle that totally covers the path and a young woman is there trying to find a way across. The older monk picks her up, carries her across to safety and then continues on with the other monk. Some miles later, the young monk says "Brother, We monks are supposed to avoid any temptations with women." The older monk replies, "I put that girl down miles ago, Brother. Why are you still carrying her?"

Ebor

Too funny!

[artrx]

I have just remembered an old story that might illustrate what I wish the people who change Churches would do: I have heard it from both Christian and Zen sources:

Two monks are walking down the road. They come to a large mud puddle that totally covers the path and a young woman is there trying to find a way across. The older monk picks her up, carries her across to safety and then continues on with the other monk. Some miles later, the young monk says "Brother, We monks are supposed to avoid any temptations with women." The older monk replies, "I put that girl down miles ago, Brother. Why are you still carrying her?"

Ebor

I love that! It's so appropriate to MANY situations.

[Ebor]

I agree...it's a human tendancy rather than just an ex-Anglican tendancy. I'm guilty of it myself as I've taken potshots at numerous things...though Anglicanism hasn't come into my firing line yet :D All my potshoting does take place in an online blog too..and not the one here either.


Oh, I didn't think that it was only done to Anglicans. Since I am one, and some of the blogs in question are of persons I knew or knew of from the Episcopal Church, priests in particular, that's where I see it. I will admit that I don't go searching for say Ex-Baptist blogs/sites or such :) 'not my pigeon' as the old phrase goes.


As for reasons why...for me some of it was anger, at others and at myself.


Well, in the case of priests who have become RC or EO I wonder if it could be anger and if so, for what reason? But at the same time, do they really believe that denigrating their old Church is a *good thing*?

Many of the threads/articles seem pointed at showing how Anglicans aren't *really* Church, that it has no sacraments, that it's elite and snobbish (never mind real Anglicans on this planet like all the ones in Africa and Asia or out in the American West away from the big urban centers.) And this from people who *were* priests and had the cure of hundreds of souls.

Sometimes there seems to be a flavour of "I thank you, God, that I am no longer like that Anglican over there."

It doesn't make me want to join them, I tell you.

Ebor

[Ebor]

I have found that since making the decision to convert from Anglicanism to Catholocism I have become more 'inclusive' I guess you could say. Most recently it has finally sunk in that it doesn't really matter which way you go, as long as you have love and show love to your fellow man. I guess you could say be the love/light of Christ to other human beings. All the stuff that we (as christians) fight with each other about is just minor compared to what we should be doing. You love God, I love God, lets all just get along :) Just because I show my love by praying this prayer and you pray a different pray makes no difference.

Thank you. :) Would that there were more with a view like yours.

Some of the RC/EO converts think that it is dreadfully Important where one goes and that RC/EO is the Only One True and Right Way(tm). Those are the only real choices to be part of Christ's Church.

Ebor