Daniel 2:31-45

[stone]

Daniel 2:31-45 31 "Your majesty had a vision of a statue, very large and extremely bright; it stood in front of you and its appearance was terrifying. 32 The head of the statue was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its trunk and thighs of bronze, 33 its legs of iron, and its feet partly of iron and partly of clay. 34 As you watched, a stone separated itself without any human hand, struck the statue on its feet made of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. 35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold were all broken into pieces which became like the chaff on a threshing-floor in summer; the wind blew them away without leaving a trace. But the stone which had struck the statue grew into a huge mountain that filled the whole earth. 36 "That is what you dreamt, and now we will give the king its interpretation. 37 Your majesty, king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, the strength and the glory; 38 so that wherever people, wild animals or birds in the air live, he has handed them over to you and enabled you to rule them all -you are the head of gold. 39 But after you another kingdom will rise, inferior to you; then a third kingdom, of bronze, which will rule the whole world. 40 The fourth kingdom will be as strong as iron. Iron can break anything into pieces, pulverize it and crush it. So just as iron can crush anything, this kingdom will break the other kingdoms into pieces and crush them. 41 Finally, you saw the feet and toes made partly of pottery clay and partly of iron; this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the firmness of iron, since you saw the iron mixed with clay from the ground. 42 Just as the toes of the feet were part iron and part clay, this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 You saw the iron mixed with clay; that means that they will cement their alliances by intermarriages; but they won't stick together any more than iron blends with clay. 44 "In the days of those kings the God of heaven will establish a kingdom that will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not pass into the hands of another people. It will break to pieces and consume all those kingdoms; but it, itself, will stand forever - 45 like the stone you saw, which, without human hands, separated itself from the mountain and broke to pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold. The great God has revealed to the king what will come about in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation is reliable."
*****

What is this prophecy suppose to mean?

[visionary]

41 Finally, you saw the feet and toes made partly of pottery clay and partly of iron; this will be a divided kingdom; yet it will have some of the firmness of iron, since you saw the iron mixed with clay from the ground. 42 Just as the toes of the feet were part iron and part clay, this kingdom will be partly strong and partly brittle. 43 You saw the iron mixed with clay; that means that they will cement their alliances by intermarriages; but they won't stick together any more than iron blends with clay. 44 "In the days of those kings the God of heaven will establish a kingdom that will never be destroyed, and that kingdom will not pass into the hands of another people. It will break to pieces and consume all those kingdoms; but it, itself, will stand forever - 45 like the stone you saw, which, without human hands, separated itself from the mountain and broke to pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold. The great God has revealed to the king what will come about in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation is reliable." So you want to look at
*****God's Day-Planner*****

Many have research and tried to figure out the notes written there in. While His notes are brief, they are summaries that are all encompassing what I believe is the end days.. especially the section that I have placed under quote.

Let's back up to the scene....

Babylon was an astonishing pagan metropolis, immersed in religious pluralism. Scores upon scores of temples and worship-places dotted the illustrious city. For each false-deity worshiped, there was a set of priests and devotees, from the least deity to the greatest. Nor was there any shortage of advisors in the court of the king. At His command the throne-room was thronged wall-to-wall with his motley mass of pagan religionists—chaldeans, magicians, soothsayers, astrologers, and necromancers—specialists in reading chicken entrails and kindred means of ascertaining the will of the gods.

At the king's command, there was instant silence. He told them that he had had a dream and wished to know what it meant. The foremost in his audience responded, "O king, live for ever. Tell thy servants the dream and we will shew the interpretation." But the king declared that he could not remember the dream, and that one of two fates awaited them: either tell him what was in the dream and receive rewards and honors, or don't and be killed!

Having a stable of religionists at hand to press their diverse experiences and doctrines didn't help when God spoke to Nebuchadnezzar by dreams. They admitted that none merely human could tell what it meant. It was out of human hands. Only a source from beyond could supply an answer to a dream from beyond.

Now Daniel and his three friends, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah (Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed- Nego), had been carried away to Babylon and placed "in training" to fulfill future duties as wise-men in the court of the King. But their enforced education at Babylon University was about to be cut-off by the king's decree. All the wise-men were to be killed. However, before carrying out the decree, Arioch, the captain of the king's guard, went straight to Daniel, explaining what the king had ordered. Next, Daniel was allowed to go in before Nebuchadnezzar and ask for time in order to discover and reveal the information sought by the king

Now Daniel and his three friends, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah (Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed- Nego), had been carried away to Babylon and placed "in training" to fulfill future duties as wise-men in the court of the King. But their enforced education at Babylon University was about to be cut-off by the king's decree. All the wise-men were to be killed. However, before carrying out the decree, Arioch, the captain of the king's guard, went straight to Daniel, explaining what the king had ordered. Next, Daniel was allowed to go in before Nebuchadnezzar and ask for time in order to discover and reveal the information sought by the king (Daniel 2:14-16).

Although the king had been unwilling to grant time to the other wise men, he did grant it to Daniel. In tests of wisdom a year before, Daniel and his friends had far outshone the others, demonstrating great promise (Daniel chapter 1). Nebuchadnezzar had not forgotten.

Daniel returned to his quarters and told Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah what had happened. Together, all united in prayer that God would reveal the dream and thus save their lives. That night, as Daniel slept—as he dreamt—God showed him what Nebuchadnezzar had seen the previous eve (Daniel 2:17-19). Far from being absent and indifferent, the God of heaven was closely acquainted with what his children were facing, and quite interested in placing new ideas before the mind of Nebuchadnezzar. If he would be willing to turn and follow the God of heaven, every provision would be exhausted to win him.

Some people think that God didn't care about the pagans back in the old testiment. He's only interested in a pre-selected list of hebrew favorites. But the testimony of the book of Daniel is that God spontaneously reached out to a pagan king, an idol-worshiping hot-head. That's the way God is. He is interested in me and you and everyone in all generations. He is interested in those who have already been following Him as well as those who have never known Him or even who have turned their back on Him. He still reaches out. He still loves. He still saves.

When Daniel understood the dream, he didn't rush straight to the king; He stopped to pray. Our world has forgotten their prayer, but is no less true:

Blessed be the name of God for ever and ever: for wisdom and might are His: and He changeth the times and the seasons: He removeth kings and setteth up kings: He giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding: He revealeth the deep and secret things: He knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with Him. I thank Thee and praise Thee, O Thou God of my fathers, who hast given me wisdom and might, and hast made known unto me now what we desired of Thee: for Thou hast now made known unto us the king's matter. Daniel 2:20-23.
Daniel knew that ultimately, God is in charge. Wisdom and might—the revealing of what God knows—are His. And whether in vision or through this Bible—the Word of the Living God—He can and will give wisdom and might to those honestly seeking for it.


I know that this is not the answer to your questions, but so many times, a thread like this is started and the meat is torn at by wolves, without any gentle approach. I did not want your thread to be hi-jacked but would love to see it approached with a 'all things considered" approach.

So while my post is just the approach, it hopefully will give everyone a setting in which to consider the answer presented by Daniel which you want to understand.

[shmuel]

What is this prophecy suppose to mean?

If you mean the whole passage, then conservatives believe that it refers to four successive empires: Babylonian, Medo-Persian, Greek, and Roman. Liberals who don't believe in predictive prophesy would say that the four empires are Babylonian, Median, Persian, and Greek. They would also say that Daniel was written in the Maccabean period after the dissolution of Alexanders empire.

If you are refering to vs 41 specifically, the idea is that the final empire is a coalition of (10) nations and that the coalition is not strong.

At the end God destroys the kingdoms of this world and establishes His kingdom on earth. The Christian and Messianic interpretation of the stone that destroys the statue is Jesus/Yeshua.

[stone]

Does anyone see a prophesy here that has not yet been fulfilled, and i mean the entire post, with all the scriptures together, the picture it paints, do ya'll see something here that relates to end times?

[LittleLambofJesus]

45 like the stone you saw, which, without human hands, separated itself from the mountain and broke to pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold. The great God has revealed to the king what will come about in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation is reliable."
Does anyone see a prophesy here that has not yet been fulfilled, and i mean the entire post, with all the scriptures together, the picture it paints, do ya'll see something here that relates to end times?I have a question. Zech 4:7 mentions a "Great Mountain". Is this the one "the stone" came from and what do others feel this is symbolizing? Thanks. Peace.

(Young) Zechariah 4:7 Who [art] thou, O great mountain Before Zerubbabel--for a plain! And he hath brought forth the top-stone, Cries of Grace, grace--[are] to it.'

[stone]

:scratch: that must be part of the side tracking i've heard about, or the derailing...

a thought just popped into me head, now, you have probably seen star wars right, remember that scene..

"stay on target, [the ship sways to the left]stay on target, [the ship sways to the right]stay on target... " [FIRE]oh and then he misses. lol

[shmuel]

Does anyone see a prophesy here that has not yet been fulfilled, and i mean the entire post, with all the scriptures together, the picture it paints, do ya'll see something here that relates to end times?

The position commonly called premillennial would see the part from vs 41 on as yet future.

[LittleLambofJesus]

45 like the stone you saw, which, without human hands, separated itself from the mountain and broke to pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold. The great God has revealed to the king what will come about in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation is reliable."

I have a question. Zech 4:7 mentions a "Great Mountain". Is this the one "the stone" came from and what do others feel this is symbolizing? Thanks. Peace.

(Young) Zechariah 4:7 Who [art] thou, O great mountain Before Zerubbabel--for a plain! And he hath brought forth the top-stone, Cries of Grace, grace--[are] to it.'
that must be part of the side tracking i've heard about, or the derailing...
a thought just popped into me head, now, you have probably seen star wars right, remember that scene..

"stay on target, [the ship sways to the left]stay on target, [the ship sways to the right]stay on target... " [FIRE]oh and then he misses. lolYes. So any thougths on the similarity between the mountain in Dan 2 and the one in Zech 4? Thanks. :wave:

edit to add from post #9quote shmuel: Here is a quote from material that may not be familar to many here. It was written circa 180 CE by Irenaeus. It is from Book V, Chapter XXVI of Against Heresies.
Me: I do not read commentaries much, but I do try to hamonize the Scriptures using Scripture to compare Scripture. Peace.

[shmuel]

Here is a quote from material that may not be familar to many here. It was written circa 180 CE by Irenaeus. It is from Book V, Chapter XXVI of Against Heresies.


1. In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord's disciples what shall happen in the last times, and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise, among whom the empire which now rules [the earth] shall be partitioned. He teaches us what the ten horns shall be which were seen by Daniel, telling us that thus it had been said to him: "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet, but shall receive power as if kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and give their strength and power to the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because He is the Lord of lords and the King of kings." It is manifest, therefore, that of these [potentates], he who is to come shall slay three, and subject the remainder to his power, and that he shall be himself the eighth among them. And they shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. After that they shall be destroyed by the coming of our Lord. For that the kingdom must be divided, and thus come to ruin, the Lord [declares when He] says: "Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation, and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand." It must be, therefore, that the kingdom, the city, and the house be divided into ten; and for this reason He has already foreshadowed the partition and division [which shall take place]. Daniel also says particularly, that the end of the fourth kingdom consists in the toes of the image seen by Nebuchadnezzar, upon which came the stone cut out without hands; and as he does himself say: "The feet were indeed the one part iron, the other part clay, until the stone was cut out without hands, and struck the image upon the iron and clay feet, and dashed them into pieces, even to the end." Then afterwards, when interpreting this, he says: "And as thou sawest the feet and the toes, partly indeed of clay, and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided, and there shall be in it a root of iron, as thou sawest iron mixed with baked clay. And the toes were indeed the one part iron, but the other part clay." The ten toes, therefore, are these ten kings, among whom the kingdom shall be partitioned, of whom some indeed shall be strong and active, or energetic; others, again, shall be sluggish and useless, and shall not agree; as also Daniel says: "Some part of the kingdom shall be strong, and part shall be broken from it. As thou sawest the iron mixed with the baked clay, there shall be minglings among the human race, but no cohesion one with the other, just as iron cannot be welded on to pottery ware." And since an end shall take place, he says: "And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven raise up a kingdom which shall never decay, and His kingdom shall not be left to another people. It shall break in pieces and shatter all kingdoms, and shall itself be exalted for ever. As thou sawest that the stone was cut without hands from the mountain, and brake in pieces the baked clay, the iron, the brass, the silver, and the gold, God has pointed out to the king what shall come to pass after these things; and the dream is true, and the interpretation trustworthy."

[stone]

Is there more?

[LittleLambofJesus]

Is there more?You mean on my post #8? I have yet to hear views on it. We can always go to the links to read commentaries for those that wish to. I myself would rather just stick to the Scriptures. :wave:

[LittleLambofJesus]

If no one is going to respond to my post # 8 or is not interested in this thread, I will just leave it "fade away". Peace.

[visionary]

Yes. So any thougths on the similarity between the mountain in Dan 2 and the one in Zech 4? Thanks. :wave:

edit to add from post #9
Me: I do not read commentaries much, but I do try to hamonize the Scriptures using Scripture to compare Scripture. Peace.
When looking at Zech... there is this fellow mentioned....

Zerubbabel
(born at Babel, i.e. Babylon), the head of the tribe of Judah at the time of the return from the Babylonish captivity in the first year of Cyrus. The history of Zerabbabel in the Scriptures is as follows: In the first year of Cyrus he was living at Babylon, and was the recognized prince of Judah in the captivity,--what in later times was called "the prince of the captivity," or "the prince." On the issuing of Cyrus' decree he immediately availed himself of it, and placed himself at the head of those of his countrymen "whose spirit God had raised to go up to build the house of the Lord which is in Jerusalem." It is probable that he was in the king of Babylon's service, both from his having, like Daniel and the three children, received a Chaldee name, Sheshbazzar, and from the fact that he was appointed by the Persian king to the office of governor of Judea. On arriving at Jerusalem, Zerubbabel's great work, which he set about immediately, was the rebuilding of the temple. In the second month of the second year of the return the foundation was laid with all the pomp which could be commanded. The efforts of the Samaritans were successful in putting a stop to the work during the seven remaining years of the reign of Cyrus and through the eight years of Cambyses and Smerdis. Nor does Zerubbabel appear quite blameless for this long delay. The difficulties in the way of building the temple were not such as need have stopped the work and during this long suspension of sixteen years Zerubbabel and the rest of the people had been busy in building costly houses for themselves. But in the second year of Darius, light dawned upon the darkness of the colony from Babylon. In that year--it was the most memorable event in Zerabbabel's life--the spirit of prophecy suddenly blazed up with a most brilliant light among the returned captives. Their words fell like sparks upon tinder. In a moment Zerubbabel roused from his apathy, threw his whole strength into the work. After much opposition [see Nehemiah, The Book Of] and many hindrances find delays, the temple was at length finished, in the sixth pear of Darius, and was dedicated with much pomp and rejoicing. [Temple] The only other works of Zerubbabel of which we learn from Scripture are the restoration of the courses of priests and Levites and of the provision for their maintenance, according to the institution of David (Ezra 6:18; Nehemiah 12:47) the registering the returned captives according to their genealogies, (Nehemiah 7:5) and the keeping of a Passover in the seventh year of Darius, with which last event ends all that we know of the life of Zerubbabel, His apocryphal history is told in 1 Esdr. 3-7. The exact parentage of Zerubbabel is a little obscure, from his being always called the son of Shealtiel, (Ezra 3:2,8; 5:2) etc.; (Haggai 1:1,12,14) etc., end appearing as such in the genealogies of Christ (Matthew 1:12; Luke 3:27) whereas in (1 Chronicles 3:19) he is represented as the son of Pedaiah, Shealtiel or Salathiel's brother, and consequently as Salathiel's nephew. Zerubbabel was the legal successor and heir of Jeconiah's royal estate, the grandson of Neri and the lineal descendant of Nathan the son of David. In the New Testament the name appears in the Greek form of Zorobabel.

[LittleLambofJesus]

45 like the stone you saw, which, without human hands, separated itself from the mountain and broke to pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold. The great God has revealed to the king what will come about in the future. The dream is true, and its interpretation is reliable."

I have a question. Zech 4:7 mentions a "Great Mountain". Is this the one "the stone" came from and what do others feel this is symbolizing? Thanks. Peace.

(Young) Zechariah 4:7 Who [art] thou, O great mountain Before Zerubbabel--for a plain! And he hath brought forth the top-stone, Cries of Grace, grace--[are] to it.' When looking at Zech... there is this fellow mentioned....

Zerubbabel
(born at Babel, i.e. Babylon), the head of the tribe of Judah at the time of the return from the Babylonish captivity in the first year of Cyrus. The history of Zerabbabel in the Scriptures is as follows: In the first year of Cyrus he was living at Babylon, and was the recognized prince of Judah in the captivity,--what in later times was called "the prince of the captivity," or "the prince."..................
Thanks for that visionary.
One biblical view I had was the mountain in Zech 4 could resemble the "kingdom" mentioned here as it was destroyed by the roman army as prophecied. Thoughts?

(Young) Matthew 21:43 `Because of this I say to you, that the reign of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth its fruit;

Could this "place and nation" symbolically represent that "mountain" in Zech 4?

(Young) John 11:48 if we may let him alone thus, all will believe in him; and the Romans will come, and will take away both our place and nation.'

[shmuel]

I think its clear what Dan 2:45 says; therefore, there is a starting point for interpretation.

I do not know what Zech 4:7 says. It reads the same in Hebrew. The only insight from the Hebrew is that "it" is feminine and thus, refers back to stone. The word translated as "cries" or "shoutings" is from the same root as "sho'ah", so it is difficult to see the connection with "chen" (grace).

[stone]

I'm going to finish reading Daniel, then i'll put something together explaining what i saw here in the 1st part of the book. I'll start up another thread later, on the entire book of Daniel.