Possible Sticky: What is the Restoration Movement?

[HeyHomie]

The term "Restoration Movement" refers to a collection of individual congregations without any centralized governing heirarchy, but who share similar core beliefs.

The goal of the Restoration Movement is to return to Biblical Christianity as practiced in the First Century. This means doing away with things that the leaders of the Restoration Movement thought were, at worst, un-Biblical, and at best, un-necessary. These things include, but are not limited to, rituals, written creeds, and governing heirarchies. Please note that the Restoration Movement makes no claim to being the continuation of the original Christian church. Rather, we strive to restore our worship and practices to what we believe was practiced in the first century church.

The key beliefs of the Restoration Movement that set its congregations apart from other evangelical Protestant churches are:

1) "No Creed but Christ." Acceptance of or adherence to a written creed is not necessary for fellowship, church membership, or participation in church practices. No Restoration Movement congregation has any written creeds.

2) "Where the Scriptures speak, we speak; where the Scriptures are silent, we are silent." In essence, this means that congregations affiliated with the Restoration Movement reject chatechisms and the like, and base their beliefs only on Scripture.

3) "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, love." Believers affiliated with the Restoration Movement will not exclude other Christians from fellowship based on differing beliefs on "non-essential" doctrines. Restoration Movement believers will show love to believers with whom they may disagree.

4) "We are not the only Christians, but we are Christians only." Restoration Movement believers do not claim to be the only Christians, and we accept other believers who profess to believe in Jesus Christ as our brothers and sisters. However, we do not attach any other name to ourselves other than "Christian."

5) "The priesthood of all believers." We believe that all believers are "priests" and can access God through prayer without a human intermediary.

The main practices of the Restoration Movement are as follows:

A) Local control of congregations. Any and all decisions that affect a congregation, such as hiring, transfer or termination of staff; budget allocations; building projects; etc. are made by that congregation. No congregation is accountable to any governing heirarchy.

B) Lord's Supper every Sunday. We celebrate the Lord's Supper every Sunday. Any baptized believer is welcome to participate.

C) Believer's baptism by immersion. Only those who choose to baptised are baptised (we do not baptise infants or children who are too young to understand the decision). We baptise by full immersion.

D) Beauty through simplicity. Most Restoration Movement churches are rather austere, rejecting such things as candles, artwork, or stained glass windows, and are decorated quite simply.

Restoration Movement churches go by several styles of names. The most common type of name is the combination of a geographical place, for example a city or a street, and the words "Christian Church" or "Church of Christ." For example, if you're in Kalamazoo and you drive by Kalamazoo Christian Church, you can be 99% it's a Restoration Movement congregation.

There are some Restoration Movement congregations that practice non-instrumental worship. They almost exclusively use the name "Church of Christ" (as opposed to "Christian Church"). However, not all congregations that use the term "Church of Christ" are non-instrumental.

For more on the founding and the history of the Restoration Movement, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone-Campbell_Movement.

For a thorough treatment of the five branches of the Restoration Movement and the divisions (some minor, some major) between them, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciples_of_Christ.

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That's my proposed sticky to explain the Restoration Movement to any seekers or lurkers. Please feel free to offer additions, deletions, corrections or clarifications as you see fit.

[Mrs. Enigma]

Restoration Movement believers do not claim to be the only Christians, and we accept other believers who profess to believe in Jesus Christ as our brothers and sisters.


I don't think that is gonna be very unanimous in here, although I personally agree with that.

[Andy Broadley]

I hadn't seen this section before, so I guess it must be fairly new.

God Bless you all and I will keep you in my prayers.

Hope yo see some of you drop by the Salvation Army section occasionally.

[Tranceformer110]

I don't think that is gonna be very unanimous in here, although I personally agree with that.I've never met anyone in the Rm who thought they were the only christians.:scratch: And I have met quite a few.

[constance]

For more on the founding and the history of the Restoration Movement, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone-Campbell_Movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone-Campbell_Movement).

For a thorough treatment of the five branches of the Restoration Movement and the divisions (some minor, some major) between them, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciples_of_Christ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciples_of_Christ).


I would prefer to see the wiki links going to internal CF wikis than to external wikis.

For a couple of reasons - one - they're all so long - and two - the DoC wikipedia entry has a lovely paragraph about Jim Jones and the CoC wikipedia entry has an equally lovely paragraph about the International Churches of Christ. While I'm not interested in revising history, frankly, neither the Jim Jones fiasco or the ICoC have any relevance to current events. I can't imagine how absorbing this information would be productive to anyone seeking information about the Restoration Movement.

Constance (whose DoC husband had to take a 2 day psych eval to make sure he wasn't a megalomaniac before he could be approved for ordination)

[Frame1520]

Yes, I've never heard of a coC belief that they are the only christians. I'm sure there are people out there who think that, but they are misguided in their belief.

[GK]

Yes, I've never heard of a coC belief that they are the only christians. I'm sure there are people out there who think that, but they are misguided in their belief.
Unfortunately, I've run into a number of congregations like that out here on the west coast. I even interviewed for a pastoral position in one a few years back. They held the belief if you weren't baptized inside a church building on a Sunday morning at a regular service, in a church with the right words on the sign out front (meaning another CoC they agreed with), you weren't really a Christian. :(

[Frame1520]

Unfortunately, I've run into a number of congregations like that out here on the west coast. I even interviewed for a pastoral position in one a few years back. They held the belief if you weren't baptized inside a church building on a Sunday morning at a regular service, in a church with the right words on the sign out front (meaning another CoC they agreed with), you weren't really a Christian. :(

Thats just ignorant. Sorry to hear about that experience...There are people on all ends of the spectrum out there. It's a shame that they drag other people into believing in the ridiculous made up "traditions" that they choose to follow.

We used to have an extreme family at our church. They were almost amish, and basically sent people out of church by bullying them, being so legalistic. They were scary, and did a lot of harm for the cause of Christ, and saving people.

[GK]

*nod*

In the mean time, I think it's great to include the statement in the sticky "Restoration Movement believers do not claim to be the only Christians, and we accept other believers who profess to believe in Jesus Christ as our brothers and sisters." because there are others who have had experiences like mine.

[Frame1520]

*nod*

In the mean time, I think it's great to include the statement in the sticky "Restoration Movement believers do not claim to be the only Christians, and we accept other believers who profess to believe in Jesus Christ as our brothers and sisters." because there are others who have had experiences like mine.

I agree.

[WesWoodell]

I've never met anyone in the Rm who thought they were the only christians.:scratch: And I have met quite a few.

Man, I have. :|

That's the thing about being autonomous (meaning each congregation is governed by its own eldership).

Beliefs can differ from one extreme to the other depending on where you go and who's leading the church.

[SpiritualPilgrim]

Granted that I'm on the so-called liberal end of the RM (DoC), but my experience is that we state that we are not the only Christians, and thus far, I've not met any that have said that we are, though I'll allow that there very well could be some that feel that way, but just don't say it.

[woman.at.the.well]

Thank you for this thread. I am currently trying to find a church that is more closer to my belief system -- which is the early New Testament church (like you all believe in) and the more I read up on the RM the more I think that is what I am looking for.

Do you guys mind if I look in on what you are posting and ask questions?

[HeyHomie]

Do you guys mind if I look in on what you are posting and ask questions?

Not at all. Ask away.:clap:

[Frame1520]

Do you guys mind if I look in on what you are posting and ask questions?

Please do! There are some fairly knowledgable folks in here! :clap:

[woman.at.the.well]

there are any RM churches out there that take part in the type of early New Testament church I see illustrated in Acts 2:42-47 as copied and pasted (from www.biblegateway.com (http://www.biblegateway.com)) below in southwest U.S.A?:

The Fellowship of the Believers

Acts 2:42-47 They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.

I have bolded the part that I don't seem to find in any church that I have attended (not just RM churches). I read a really good book called, "Living On Purpose," by Tom and Christine Sine last year. It is phenomenal. And I have been looking for that kind of church/community ever since. Hence being led toward RMs. Even though the authors of the book are Presbyterians (from what I remember) they seem to be talking about the same type of church the RM is representing but it's so hard to find at least in my area (Southwest, U.S.).

I was baptized in a CoC and really loved the poeple there. It so reminded me of what it will be like when Jesus comes and we go "home" every time I went to that church. I miss it and wish we wouldn't have had to move away from it. But I also missed the instruments in worship. I love contemporary worship music. So what would be the best way for me to go there? I assume a "Christian church," as adverse to the CoC?

I know it is extremely difficult to find one that teaches exactly how we feel led to fellowship in our hearts but to even find a church that comes close to that is daunting it seems.

It seems like most churches (including RM churches) agree on following the teachings of the Apostles (as written above from Acts 2:42 and Paul, etc. but tend to vere off the rest of what was exampled in that section of scripture.

Like, not using the power we have in the Holy Spirit for healing as well as other Gifts of the Spirit (like prophecying, etc) as shown in v. 43. If I remember correctly the CoC said only the Apostles could perform miracles. Is that correct?

I also wonder why I never see any churches becoming communities like I read about in "Living On Purpose," who did like the early Christians in v. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. Every church (including RM types) I've ever been to has the "have's" and "have nots" just like the rest of society and I'm wondering why that is? Maybe you guys can direct me differently. I'm open for anything and will not attack whatever you have to say on the matter so please don't take that question wrong. I truly am in search of the early New Testament church.

I guess I just wonder why some things are practiced like the early church and why some things are kind of forgotten about.

Another thing I really miss about the people from the CoC I was baptized in is how warm and loving they were and how they took part in what I see exampled in v 46-47. It seemed like every week we were getting invited to go to someone's home for dinner, etc. It was a really neat environment to have children in.

I would like to go back to that if I knew that the whole text of this scripture was followed. Any suggestions?

Thank you so much for letting this non-denom take part in this discussion and for being so kind and helpful!

Peace and blessings to you!
WATW

[HeyHomie]

Well, it seems to me like what you're looking for is basically a commune. I know of no church, RM or otherwise, that practices exactly like the churches in that passage did, except maybe the Amish and some others on the lunatic fringe.

Two things to keep in mind. One is that there have been, throughout Christian history, some congregations that tried to live according to that model, and they have been dismal failures. These were mostly in the second and third centuries. The other thing is that I think this verse exemplifies an attitude that we're to have rather than an actual practice that we're commanded to do. For example, in my congregation no child will ever miss out on church camp if he wants to go. There are people in the congregation, myself included, who are willing to write a check for the kid if the parents can't afford camp tuition. Nor will anyone in our congregation do without food. You get the idea. It doesn't mean that we all pool our money into a big pot and take what we need. It just means that we see that each other's needs are met. I have much more than some other people in my congregation, and there are people in my congregation who have much more than I do. It's part of life.

As far as music: any congregation with the words "xxxx Christian Church" on the marquee is going to have instruments. The music may be traditional organ-and-piano, or it may be a full worship band with guitars and all that, or somewhere in the middle. If the marquee reads "xxxxxx Church of Christ" it's a different matter. If you lived in the South, it's 99% likely that the congregation is non-instrumental. If you live in the Mid-west, it's 50-50. In the Southwest - I have no idea :confused: .


The best thing I can tell you is to try out different congregations for a series of Sundays and find one whose music suits you. If you're looking for an instrumental congregation, you may want to avoid the Churches of Christ. If non-instrumental is your thing, you may have to make a few phone calls.

Good luck!

[Frame1520]

ditto, Homie.

[woman.at.the.well]

Well, it seems to me like what you're looking for is basically a commune. I know of no church, RM or otherwise, that practices exactly like the churches in that passage did, except maybe the Amish and some others on the lunatic fringe.

Two things to keep in mind. One is that there have been, throughout Christian history, some congregations that tried to live according to that model, and they have been dismal failures. These were mostly in the second and third centuries. The other thing is that I think this verse exemplifies an attitude that we're to have rather than an actual practice that we're commanded to do. For example, in my congregation no child will ever miss out on church camp if he wants to go. There are people in the congregation, myself included, who are willing to write a check for the kid if the parents can't afford camp tuition. Nor will anyone in our congregation do without food. You get the idea. It doesn't mean that we all pool our money into a big pot and take what we need. It just means that we see that each other's needs are met. I have much more than some other people in my congregation, and there are people in my congregation who have much more than I do. It's part of life.

As far as music: any congregation with the words "xxxx Christian Church" on the marquee is going to have instruments. The music may be traditional organ-and-piano, or it may be a full worship band with guitars and all that, or somewhere in the middle. If the marquee reads "xxxxxx Church of Christ" it's a different matter. If you lived in the South, it's 99% likely that the congregation is non-instrumental. If you live in the Mid-west, it's 50-50. In the Southwest - I have no idea :confused: .


The best thing I can tell you is to try out different congregations for a series of Sundays and find one whose music suits you. If you're looking for an instrumental congregation, you may want to avoid the Churches of Christ. If non-instrumental is your thing, you may have to make a few phone calls.

Good luck!

I had a feeling this would be your response as this has been my experience. I have already started looking around at other churches but thank you for your suggestion.

Although I would prefer to think of what I'm looking for as a "Whole Life Faith (or attitude as you put it)," as written about in the book I mentioned yesterday, not a commune per se - since communes tend to have a "cult" inference along with them.

I guess I'm looking for a congregation that goes over and above Sundays and Wednesdays if you get what I mean. Like the CoC I attended when I got baptized that I mentioned below only with contemporary worship music. And then the people spend time together over and above services like a family, since we are the family of God. As far as I know there IS CoC's that do use instruments in worship in some cases, just not close to me.

So I'll keep looking in my area and in here if you don't mind! The RM may well be the closes thing I'll find to what I'm looking for and I sure do appreciate you both (heyhomie and frame1520) for your help. Bless you!

[Frame1520]

Happy to be of any assistance! Its hard in this day and age to find a group of believers who DO go above and beyond the "call of duty" when it comes to God's family. There are too many people who just put in their 2 hrs a week, and that's it! (I like to call these folks, "Sunday Morning Sitters".) In any event, there are plenty of congregations out there that are similar to what you are looking for (in the RM), but not necessarily EXACTLY what you are looking for. It's good to feel good about where you are going, and have a nice fellowship..But, with that said, to me at least, a place where the bible is taught and the bible only is the most important thing. I think in MOST RM churches you will find that. (At least I hope so.)

Be blessed! :)

[constance]

Hi WATW - what you're looking for is probably the Hutterites. But I think they're mainly in the extreme north of this country and in Canada.

You may look for a social commune that is also Christian (a la Keith Green's commune) - I know they exist but don't know of any in the SW.

Constance

[woman.at.the.well]

Happy to be of any assistance! Its hard in this day and age to find a group of believers who DO go above and beyond the "call of duty" when it comes to God's family. There are too many people who just put in their 2 hrs a week, and that's it! (I like to call these folks, "Sunday Morning Sitters".) In any event, there are plenty of congregations out there that are similar to what you are looking for (in the RM), but not necessarily EXACTLY what you are looking for. It's good to feel good about where you are going, and have a nice fellowship..But, with that said, to me at least, a place where the bible is taught and the bible only is the most important thing. I think in MOST RM churches you will find that. (At least I hope so.)

Be blessed! :)

I love that, can I borrow it? "Sunday Morning Sitters." That's classic! If I could get something close to what I am looking for I would be VERY happy! As I said in a prior post - I know no one single religion will have EXACTLY everything I look for or anyone for that matter. I also struggle with not wanting to be a church hopper/shopper. But I believe people go through different stages in their faith and when that happens sometimes we need to change to accomodate where we are at spiritually. And that time has come for me.

I agree whole heartedly that the bible must be the only form of - quote unquote - doctrine that should be used. Not only that but that it should be taken literally and not manipulated. That is why non-believers/non-christians struggle with what we believe because it is so different everywhere you go.

If all Christian religions would just stick to what is written in the Word I really think that alot of what we argue over would disappear. But then again, they'd argue over what the bible actually says even though I feel it's very clear just the way it is written. With the help of a concordance, or bible word dictionary, etc.

I really get uptight when certain religions twist things and say things like, "well in the context that it was written," which unless you are a bible scholar you wouldn't know what the context was.

For example: women pastors, etc. It seems pretty clear to me that women are not supposed to lead in church services according to what Paul wrote in (NIV) 2 Corinthians 14:33:

For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

I don't mean to strike up a debate here but I am wondering how RM churches preach things from the Word and using that as an example. I am a woman and that above passage doesn't tick me off. I wish others wouldn't get so offended by it either. I don't see it as an insult. Are RM churches pretty literal when teaching from God's word that you know of?

I guess I struggle with the fine lines and teachings that I feel are false out there especially with this subject. I've had pastors say that you have to keep it into context and remember what was going on at the time. I understand all that, etc. But how is someone just thumbing through the bible supposed to know that? I don't think God's inspired word was supposed to be interpreted any other way than literally. Do you guys? Or am I being way too legalistic? Be truthful. I can take it!

Thank you again Frame1520! I really appreciate your willingness to help and answer my questions. Bless you brother!

Hi WATW - what you're looking for is probably the Hutterites. But I think they're mainly in the extreme north of this country and in Canada.

You may look for a social commune that is also Christian (a la Keith Green's commune) - I know they exist but don't know of any in the SW.

Constance

Thank you so much for this info Constance. How are you doing? It's nice to see you again! Long time no see!

[HeyHomie]

I don't mean to strike up a debate here but I am wondering how RM churches preach things from the Word and using that as an example. I am a woman and that above passage doesn't tick me off. I wish others wouldn't get so offended by it either. I don't see it as an insult. Are RM churches pretty literal when teaching from God's word that you know of?

Well we're pretty literal. There are no women preachers in any RM congregation that I'm aware of.

It is necessary to understand what the Bible says in context. For example, there's a Psalm that says something about wanting to take babies and bash their heads against rocks. If you didn't know the context, you'd think that God wants His people to commit infanticide :eek: .

[PastorMikeJ]

Amen!!!!

It is time to take God out of our boxes!! And accept that He is God!

[woman.at.the.well]

Well we're pretty literal. There are no women preachers in any RM congregation that I'm aware of.

It is necessary to understand what the Bible says in context. For example, there's a Psalm that says something about wanting to take babies and bash their heads against rocks. If you didn't know the context, you'd think that God wants His people to commit infanticide :eek: .

I figured since REM "doctrine" is the bible and the bible only that they take what it says pretty literal. I think you misunderstood the context statement I made. You do have to take things like culture etc into consideration when trying to understanding the scriptures.

However . . . when people go around saying you have to take into context what was happening at the time that Paul wrote the letter to the Corinthians regarding women speaking in church - that women were just blurting things out in that church at the time - how is a non Christian reading through the Word supposed to know that? You get what I mean? It crosses a line if you get my drift.

Could you please post that verse in Psalms (re: bashing babies heads against a rock) so I can see that for myself. I'm on my 5th time through the bible in the last 4 yrs and do not ever recall reading a verse like that. You also have to read the whole chapter too, not just a verse. That is how I see things "in context." Is that what you mean too?

Thank you homie!

[HeyHomie]

Psalm 137

1Alongside Babylon's rivers we sat on the banks; we cried and cried,
remembering the good old days in Zion.
2Alongside the quaking aspens
we stacked our unplayed harps;
3That's where our captors demanded songs,
sarcastic and mocking:
"Sing us a happy Zion song!"

4Oh, how could we ever sing GOD's song
in this wasteland?
5If I ever forget you, Jerusalem,
let my fingers wither and fall off like leaves.
6Let my tongue swell and turn black
if I fail to remember you,
If I fail, O dear Jerusalem,
to honor you as my greatest.

7GOD, remember those Edomites,
and remember the ruin of Jerusalem,
That day they yelled out,
"Wreck it, smash it to bits!"
8And you, Babylonians--ravagers!
A reward to whoever gets back at you
for all you've done to us;
9Yes, a reward to the one who grabs your babies and smashes their heads on the rocks!

[VonKarman]

As pertains to the original post:

Very interesting. Sounds a lot like a "non-denominational" Christian viewpoint.

[Frame1520]

I love that, can I borrow it? "Sunday Morning Sitters." That's classic!
Sure, just remember to tell people I told you. :D

If I could get something close to what I am looking for I would be VERY happy! As I said in a prior post - I know no one single religion will have EXACTLY everything I look for or anyone for that matter. I also struggle with not wanting to be a church hopper/shopper. But I believe people go through different stages in their faith and when that happens sometimes we need to change to accomodate where we are at spiritually. And that time has come for me.
Based on what I've read from you, a RM church kind of sounds up your alley. I'd look at "Christian churches" and "churches of Christ." Maybe, a suggested before, make a phone call to the minister to see where they stand on things (instrumental or non).

I really get uptight when certain religions twist things and say things like, "well in the context that it was written," which unless you are a bible scholar you wouldn't know what the context was.
Too many folks key in on one verse, and base everything they believe in on that. They'll take one vese like Romans 10:9, or even Acts 2:38 and use it as their only view. (Granted, Acts 2:38 is pretty powerful and clear!) It's a shame that they don't teach the verse, or chapter in context, and who the epistle was written to, etc.

Are RM churches pretty literal when teaching from God's word that you know of?
I think so. At least, most that I've known.

I guess I struggle with the fine lines and teachings that I feel are false out there especially with this subject. I've had pastors say that you have to keep it into context and remember what was going on at the time. I understand all that, etc. But how is someone just thumbing through the bible supposed to know that? I don't think God's inspired word was supposed to be interpreted any other way than literally. Do you guys? Or am I being way too legalistic? Be truthful. I can take it!
As to the women issue you brought up, I agree with you. The bible is pretty clear on the issue, and I think we should take it literally. It also comes back to compromising God's word. When churches decide they are going to allow women ministers, or even leadership (elders, deacons, etc.), then they are compromising God's word. When you do that, you set a precident. Next thing you know, your compromising on other teachings from the bible. "Oh, well, we don't need to take the Lord's supper every week...We don't need to baptize people...Lets just have a feel good message...People don't want to hear about hell!" I joke, but a lot of churches have already gone down this road. More sad than funny.

Glad I could ramble on in response to your post!:clap:

[woman.at.the.well]

Sure, just remember to tell people I told you. :D

you betcha i will!


Based on what I've read from you, a RM church kind of sounds up your alley. I'd look at "Christian churches" and "churches of Christ." Maybe, a suggested before, make a phone call to the minister to see where they stand on things (instrumental or non).

:thumbsup:

Too many folks key in on one verse, and base everything they believe in on that. They'll take one vese like Romans 10:9, or even Acts 2:38 and use it as their only view. (Granted, Acts 2:38 is pretty powerful and clear!) It's a shame that they don't teach the verse, or chapter in context, and who the epistle was written to, etc.


I think so. At least, most that I've known.

Yeah Frame, you are correct there. I totally agree with you. I studied with a group of people that did that and when I questioned them on it they never came back.


As to the women issue you brought up, I agree with you. The bible is pretty clear on the issue, and I think we should take it literally. It also comes back to compromising God's word. When churches decide they are going to allow women ministers, or even leadership (elders, deacons, etc.), then they are compromising God's word. When you do that, you set a precident. Next thing you know, your compromising on other teachings from the bible. "Oh, well, we don't need to take the Lord's supper every week...We don't need to baptize people...Lets just have a feel good message...People don't want to hear about hell!" I joke, but a lot of churches have already gone down this road. More sad than funny.

Glad I could ramble on in response to your post!:clap:

You got that right Frame. The bible is VERY clear and I don't like it when the line is crossed not only on the issue of women preachers but in anyway. I can totally understand why non-believers would get upset about that. That is why we have so many different beliefs because people manipulate the scriptures and that really ticks me off. The bible should not be comprimised as you said!

It's funny you mentioned no teachings on hell. I have only heard one sermon on that from our church and it wasn't even the Sr. Pastor who gave it. It was an elder who did an excellent job preaching about the Bema Seat! I was rather surprised to see that alot of folks got offended by the sermon. I'm like, "huh??? are you crazy? isn't that what we are trying to avoid (hell)???"

I believe we should do the Lord's Supper every week as well. And we don't at my church (a fellowship). I also recently found out there is some formalities to being baptized as well which I highly disagree with. Jesus said, "go out into the nations, preach the gospel and baptize those that believe." I see no formalities there, do you? Believe, repent, and be baptized. Done deal! What'sup with the classes, etc???

I know it's hard to understand but I believe those feel good churches are out there for a reason. As I said before, I believe we go through different stages in our faith -- and perhaps the feel good churches draw them in (to a degree). Then when need be they move onto something more then skin deep. Does that make sense?

Thank you so much for letting ME ramble on (not you Frame ;) ) and pretty much high jack the thread. I really didn't mean to. But I have learned so much from you and heyhomie about RMs! I really appreciate your time and patience!

Bless you both for your Christ-like character and example.

[Frame1520]

I totally agree with you. I studied with a group of people that did that and when I questioned them on it they never came back.
Some people don't like to be called out...Others have too much pride...Still others, aren't willing to accept the truth. I can't understand how someone can say the bible is God's word and our final authority, then leave things out, or manipulate things to meet thier needs. Odd, and I'll never understand.

You got that right Frame. The bible is VERY clear and I don't like it when the line is crossed not only on the issue of women preachers but in anyway. I can totally understand why non-believers would get upset about that. That is why we have so many different beliefs because people manipulate the scriptures and that really ticks me off. The bible should not be comprimised as you said!
I think far too many people realize that this manipulation is from satan himself. Sometimes we have to take a step back and say, "who is really working here?" What better way to steer people from Christ than to manipulate the scriptures, and cause people to doubt based on so many different, quote "interpretations?"

It's funny you mentioned no teachings on hell. I have only heard one sermon on that from our church and it wasn't even the Sr. Pastor who gave it. It was an elder who did an excellent job preaching about the Bema Seat! I was rather surprised to see that alot of folks got offended by the sermon. I'm like, "huh??? are you crazy? isn't that what we are trying to avoid (hell)???"
Yeah. Difficult to make people understand salvation if they don't understand the alternative. Again, people don't like to hear things that make them uncomfortable. I don't know about you, but every once in a while, being reminded of hell as an alternative certainly can keep one humble and aware.

I believe we should do the Lord's Supper every week as well. And we don't at my church (a fellowship). I also recently found out there is some formalities to being baptized as well which I highly disagree with. Jesus said, "go out into the nations, preach the gospel and baptize those that believe." I see no formalities there, do you? Believe, repent, and be baptized. Done deal! What'sup with the classes, etc???
What was the class? That they had to meet certain requirements before they were baptized? I'd be interested to hear more. (for the sake of conversation.)

I know it's hard to understand but I believe those feel good churches are out there for a reason. As I said before, I believe we go through different stages in our faith -- and perhaps the feel good churches draw them in (to a degree). Then when need be they move onto something more then skin deep. Does that make sense?
Probably right. Each person is in different stages of their Christian walk, all needing a different type of spirtual growth. Obviously, the end goal should be sound in ones biblical knowledge, tothe point where the student becomes the teacher, thus repeating the whole process of what the great commission is all about.

Thank you so much for letting ME ramble on (not you Frame ;) ) and pretty much high jack the thread. I really didn't mean to. But I have learned so much from you and heyhomie about RMs! I really appreciate your time and patience!

Bless you both for your Christ-like character and example.
No problem. Good to fellowship and share like thoughts!

[woman.at.the.well]

Some people don't like to be called out...Others have too much pride...Still others, aren't willing to accept the truth. I can't understand how someone can say the bible is God's word and our final authority, then leave things out, or manipulate things to meet thier needs. Odd, and I'll never understand.

no they don't like to be called out. . .you got that right Frame1520! I WANT to know the truth and don't care if it makes me uncomfortable because I know God has our best interests in mind when He inspires the writer's of His word to pen something.


I think far too many people realize that this manipulation is from satan himself. Sometimes we have to take a step back and say, "who is really working here?" What better way to steer people from Christ than to manipulate the scriptures, and cause people to doubt based on so many different, quote "interpretations?"

:amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen: :amen:


Yeah. Difficult to make people understand salvation if they don't understand the alternative. Again, people don't like to hear things that make them uncomfortable. I don't know about you, but every once in a while, being reminded of hell as an alternative certainly can keep one humble and aware.

Again I agree with you Frame . . .I am human and need a good swift kick/reminder sometimes as to where I could be headed if no one holds me accountable. That is severly lacking in churches as well. I don't like pastors or other believers in a congregation turning a blind eye when someone is sinning continually and no one says anything cause it might hurt their feelings. If I'm doing something wrong I want someone to tell me![/quote]


What was the class? That they had to meet certain requirements before they were baptized? I'd be interested to hear more. (for the sake of conversation.)

Ya know Frame . . .I have no idea what the class is. I never attended it. I had already been baptized in a CoC years ago when I came to this church but I'd be interested to know myself what is said or asked during this time. A friend of mine wanted him , his daughter, and granddaughter (3 generations) to be baptized by my pastor and he is requiring him to do this so I will ask him if he goes what the pastor went over and let you know if I am privy to that ok?


Probably right. Each person is in different stages of their Christian walk, all needing a different type of spirtual growth. Obviously, the end goal should be sound in ones biblical knowledge, tothe point where the student becomes the teacher, thus repeating the whole process of what the great commission is all about.

:amen: brother! :amen:


No problem. Good to fellowship and share like thoughts!

Well good then! I am enjoying this too!

[woman.at.the.well]

Psalm 137

1Alongside Babylon's rivers we sat on the banks; we cried and cried,
remembering the good old days in Zion.
2Alongside the quaking aspens
we stacked our unplayed harps;
3That's where our captors demanded songs,
sarcastic and mocking:
"Sing us a happy Zion song!"

4Oh, how could we ever sing GOD's song
in this wasteland?
5If I ever forget you, Jerusalem,
let my fingers wither and fall off like leaves.
6Let my tongue swell and turn black
if I fail to remember you,
If I fail, O dear Jerusalem,
to honor you as my greatest.

7GOD, remember those Edomites,
and remember the ruin of Jerusalem,
That day they yelled out,
"Wreck it, smash it to bits!"
8And you, Babylonians--ravagers!
A reward to whoever gets back at you
for all you've done to us;
9Yes, a reward to the one who grabs your babies and smashes their heads on the rocks!

Sorry homie. I didn't even catch this before I responded to Frame today. Please forgive my oversight.

Ah! I see what you are talking about now. And exactly what you meant by in context! Thank you for posting that for me.

As pertains to the original post:

Very interesting. Sounds a lot like a "non-denominational" Christian viewpoint.

Which suits this non-denom girl just dandy!

Thank you so much for your help homie!

[Frame1520]

Ya know Frame . . .I have no idea what the class is. I never attended it. I had already been baptized in a CoC years ago when I came to this church but I'd be interested to know myself what is said or asked during this time. A friend of mine wanted him , his daughter, and granddaughter (3 generations) to be baptized by my pastor and he is requiring him to do this so I will ask him if he goes what the pastor went over and let you know if I am privy to that ok?

Kind of frightening to think what it could be used for. Probably has good intentions (I say probably because I don't know). I can't see making someone who wants to obey Christ's command and become a Christian thru baptism take a class beforehand? Seems to me if someone is willing they probably understand it enough to know what it's for. It's good to reinforce the purpose of such things, but I don't think it should be REQUIRED to take a class to "be taught" what it is about first. What if someone comes forward to become a Christian and is refused, only to die before they "learn what they need to learn" in such a class? I don't know. God would ultimately be their judge, but I just can't see turning anyone away, EVER. That's my two sense on it.

I've been part of some crazy stuff in churches, and that's new to me. Believe me, just when you think things are going ok, satan strolls in and starts setting things on fire! Too many folks don't realize that we are in such a spiritual battle. I don't say that lightly. I know I have experienced it, and am sure others on here have as well. (Sorry somewhat off topic, but a random thought.) ^_^

[woman.at.the.well]

Kind of frightening to think what it could be used for. Probably has good intentions (I say probably because I don't know). I can't see making someone who wants to obey Christ's command and become a Christian thru baptism take a class beforehand? Seems to me if someone is willing they probably understand it enough to know what it's for. It's good to reinforce the purpose of such things, but I don't think it should be REQUIRED to take a class to "be taught" what it is about first. What if someone comes forward to become a Christian and is refused, only to die before they "learn what they need to learn" in such a class? I don't know. God would ultimately be their judge, but I just can't see turning anyone away, EVER. That's my two sense on it.

I've been part of some crazy stuff in churches, and that's new to me. Believe me, just when you think things are going ok, satan strolls in and starts setting things on fire! Too many folks don't realize that we are in such a spiritual battle. I don't say that lightly. I know I have experienced it, and am sure others on here have as well. (Sorry somewhat off topic, but a random thought.) ^_^

in this church I attend -- is just the icing on the cake of several reasons why I am looking around for another church home. Hence so many questions to you guys on the RM forum.

I almost emailed my pastor back when he said he wouldn't baptize them without talking to them/them attending a baptismal class and said, "WHAT????????? Where is THAT written in the word?" I shouldn't be surprised though because of where he got his doctrate of divinity from. I won't say because I truly don't want to offend anyone but it does explain some differences in what I believe and what he practices/preaches about.

I too hope the "class" has good intentions even though I don't agree with it. If someone believes Jesus lived, died on the cross, and was resurrected from the dead - then what else does one have left to do? Get baptized of course! I don't get it.

You are sooooooo right on about satan strolling in and the spiritual battle We are in, It is scarey sometimes. Especially if people don't realize the power they have as believers in Christ.

Which brings me to another point - I can't really find anything regarding RM teachings (on Wikipedia, etc) on The Gifts of the Holy Spirit like: prophesying, distinguishing spirits, healing, etc. So do you mind if I pick your brain about that too - nicely of course! If you have some sources (e.g. internet, etc) I could use and don't mind sharing them feel free to post them for me so I don't have to keep bugging you!

[Tranceformer110]

Which brings me to another point - I can't really find anything regarding RM teachings (on Wikipedia, etc) on The Gifts of the Holy Spirit like: prophesying, distinguishing spirits, healing, etc. So do you mind if I pick your brain about that too - nicely of course! If you have some sources (e.g. internet, etc) I could use and don't mind sharing them feel free to post them for me so I don't have to keep bugging you!I am somewhat of an outsider to the RM, but here is what I know(anyone else can fill in where I am wrong or just don't know). When I enrolled at Ozark Christian College(an RM school) alot of my pentecostal friends pointed out that they were cessasionists and that I might be made fun of for my beliefs. What I found out was that many of the proffessors and students are not that way. Do they practice the gifts? Not to my knowledge, but they at least allow it. I've been to several RM churches to and usually it's a topic that is never brought up. So I don't really know the most common view in the restoration movement.

[constance]

There are no women preachers in any RM congregation that I'm aware of.

Disciples of Christ has and encourages women in the ministry. I am constantly saying "no, thank you" to people who tell me I should pursue ordination. Then they say "Well, that's okay, when would you like to preach?" (and then I have a cute little temper tantrum)...

It's apparently funny to be the conservative one in a liberal denomination.

To be fair, I'm in Chicago, and the DoCs in the cornfields are more like the CoCs elsewhere.

Constance

[Frame1520]

in this church I attend -- is just the icing on the cake of several reasons why I am looking around for another church home. Hence so many questions to you guys on the RM forum.

I almost emailed my pastor back when he said he wouldn't baptize them without talking to them/them attending a baptismal class and said, "WHAT????????? Where is THAT written in the word?" I shouldn't be surprised though because of where he got his doctrate of divinity from. I won't say because I truly don't want to offend anyone but it does explain some differences in what I believe and what he practices/preaches about.

I too hope the "class" has good intentions even though I don't agree with it. If someone believes Jesus lived, died on the cross, and was resurrected from the dead - then what else does one have left to do? Get baptized of course! I don't get it.

You are sooooooo right on about satan strolling in and the spiritual battle We are in, It is scarey sometimes. Especially if people don't realize the power they have as believers in Christ.
Yeah it doesn't make much sense...I would GUESS that the class is a way of (and I hate to use this word), make the people believe what the denomination believes. I am firmly against turning people away who want to be baptized, waiting for a class!:mad:

As for the spiritual battle..Its there. People don't like to acknowledge it, because then that would mean they had to loose control. What I mean by that is, it would require them to put all their faith in God. A lot of people, including myself at times, are unwilling to "give it up" to God. The spiritual battle is God's battle, and no man can stop it. But man can, IF they put all their faith in God thru prayer, fasting, etc. God is much bigger than people give Him credit for (which to me makes about zero sense!)

I'll try and answer your other question about gifts of the spirit in another reply, it might get lengthy! :D

[Frame1520]

Which brings me to another point - I can't really find anything regarding RM teachings (on Wikipedia, etc) on The Gifts of the Holy Spirit like: prophesying, distinguishing spirits, healing, etc. So do you mind if I pick your brain about that too - nicely of course! If you have some sources (e.g. internet, etc) I could use and don't mind sharing them feel free to post them for me so I don't have to keep bugging you!
I looked up some stuff online, but it seems like there's good stuff out there, and then people have to go and mess it up by adding something unbiblical! So I'll try and answer this the best that I can, interjecting some opinion here and there, so keep that in mind. :)

Prophesying: There is prophesying all thru the bible. Even in the new testament. The question is whether it can still occur today. I would say that the reasons for prophesying are for 1) to complete the scriptures and 2) give creedence to what the apostles were teaching. I would say that today it is unlikely that people could forsee the future or prophesy, simply because the scriptures were completed when John finished the book of revelation. Can God use people to prophesy? Absolutely. God can do anything He wants, but based on scriptures (and I could dig some up if you want), you would have to stretch far to find reasoning behind prophesy now. So, in that, I think that considering the completeness of the scriptures, prophesy is no longer necessary. God has told us all we need to know, for now.

Healing, miraculous signs, tongues, etc: You won't hear of the "gifts of the spirit" exhibited in a RM church. Does that mean that someone couldn't speak in tongues? No. Again, God is in charge and can do what He wants. I however believe that speaking in tongues is exactly what the bible says. The bible tells us that the tongues in question were different languages. If someone were to speak in tongues today, they would need an interpretor to interpret what they were saying. So, yes people can speak in tongues, just not "blabbidy bloppity blah blop". I don't think that is scriptural. Healing; can people be miraculously healed? God can heal. There are also other examples of gifts of the spirit, examples would be teaching, preaching, serving, giving, leading, and showing mercy. So in those, yes, we see those all the time. They are just not the outwardly noticable gifts. When you say gifts, obviously, most people think immediately of tongues, healing, etc. But there are other gifts, and yes I believe they are very important, and integral to God's church.

That's about the best I can do without looking up a ton of scriptures and taking up this entire forum with a post. You might go to this website: http://www.thecra.org/restherald.htm
They have a lot of useful stuff, from biblical scholars who are far more experienced and well versed than I am. It's a publication written by ministers, professors, and ton's of people from the RM. Hope this helps SOME! :clap:

[woman.at.the.well]

I looked up some stuff online, but it seems like there's good stuff out there, and then people have to go and mess it up by adding something unbiblical! So I'll try and answer this the best that I can, interjecting some opinion here and there, so keep that in mind. :)

Prophesying: There is prophesying all thru the bible. Even in the new testament. The question is whether it can still occur today. I would say that the reasons for prophesying are for 1) to complete the scriptures and 2) give creedence to what the apostles were teaching. I would say that today it is unlikely that people could forsee the future or prophesy, simply because the scriptures were completed when John finished the book of revelation. Can God use people to prophesy? Absolutely. God can do anything He wants, but based on scriptures (and I could dig some up if you want), you would have to stretch far to find reasoning behind prophesy now. So, in that, I think that considering the completeness of the scriptures, prophesy is no longer necessary. God has told us all we need to know, for now.

Healing, miraculous signs, tongues, etc: You won't hear of the "gifts of the spirit" exhibited in a RM church. Does that mean that someone couldn't speak in tongues? No. Again, God is in charge and can do what He wants. I however believe that speaking in tongues is exactly what the bible says. The bible tells us that the tongues in question were different languages. If someone were to speak in tongues today, they would need an interpretor to interpret what they were saying. So, yes people can speak in tongues, just not "blabbidy bloppity blah blop". I don't think that is scriptural. Healing; can people be miraculously healed? God can heal. There are also other examples of gifts of the spirit, examples would be teaching, preaching, serving, giving, leading, and showing mercy. So in those, yes, we see those all the time. They are just not the outwardly noticable gifts. When you say gifts, obviously, most people think immediately of tongues, healing, etc. But there are other gifts, and yes I believe they are very important, and integral to God's church.

That's about the best I can do without looking up a ton of scriptures and taking up this entire forum with a post. You might go to this website: http://www.thecra.org/restherald.htm
They have a lot of useful stuff, from biblical scholars who are far more experienced and well versed than I am. It's a publication written by ministers, professors, and ton's of people from the RM. Hope this helps SOME! :clap:

I really appreciate this more than you can imagine Frame. So far as I can tell from what you are saying, I can't say I disagree with anything you have written nor do I find any of it unbiblical.

I especially agree with "it seems like there's good stuff out there, and then people have to go and mess it up by adding something unbiblical!" I've had my struggles in the past and recently with whether the Gifts of the Spirit (like prophesying, tongues, etc) are for today's Christians or not. And yes you are very correct in saying God can do whatever He wants, with whoever He chooses, whenever He deems it necessary.

I was taught in the CoC that in order for a disciple to have the gift of prophesy, etc. the Apostles needed to lay hands on that person, so essentially the gift would die out (so to speak). I can see in the scriptures why that is taught in the CoC.

Although I know that in the latter days the scriptures say that men and women will prophesy; men will dream dreams; and will also have visions, etc. I do feel as though we are in the last days in a lot of respects. So it is possible. And you're also correct in saying there are other gifts such as teaching, distinguishing spirits, etc.

I will definitely give the link you provided a look and want thank you, whole heartedly, for posting it -- I'm sure it will help immensly! As well as your heartfelt answers to my never ending questions. I think I'd be a bit on the ignorant side though if I got into ANY religion without some aforethought and investigation ya know? And I think you understand that is where the questions are coming from - a clean heart that truly wants to know!

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you Frame!

[Frame1520]

Glad to be of some help! :) Feel free to ask anything else you may think of and if I don't know it, I'll try and find out!

[woman.at.the.well]

Glad to be of some help! :) Feel free to ask anything else you may think of and if I don't know it, I'll try and find out!

Thank you so much for your Christlike character. Your openness and willingness to discuss the beliefs of the RM without being all nasty and defensive is truly a testament to a New Creature in Christ.

I will definitely come back when a question arises and look forward to your responses.

Bless you brother!

[Frame1520]

Thank you so much for your Christlike character. Your openness and willingness to discuss the beliefs of the RM without being all nasty and defensive is truly a testament to a New Creature in Christ.

I will definitely come back when a question arises and look forward to your responses.

Bless you brother!
Thanks, and have a blessed Good Friday & Resurrection Sunday! Christ is risen! :amen::clap:

[woman.at.the.well]

Thanks, and have a blessed Good Friday & Resurrection Sunday! Christ is risen! :amen::clap:

He is indeed risen!

PRAISE GOD! GLORY! HALLELUJAH! AMEN!

Frame: I pray you and your family have a blessed Easter day and weekend.

[MrJim]

Thanks for the link to "Chrisian Restoration"--this looks very interesting.

[Frame1520]

Thanks for the link to "Chrisian Restoration"--this looks very interesting.

Sure, no problem! :thumbsup::wave:

[woman.at.the.well]

You might go to this website: http://www.thecra.org/restherald.htm
They have a lot of useful stuff, from biblical scholars who are far more experienced and well versed than I am. It's a publication written by ministers, professors, and ton's of people from the RM. Hope this helps SOME! :clap:

I am finally taking a look at this website and am finding it very informative Frame1520! Thank you again for this info. Matter of fact I might post some of it on another thread in RM where someone was asking why CoCs claim to be non-denom, etc.

[Frame1520]

I am finally taking a look at this website and am finding it very informative Frame1520! Thank you again for this info. Matter of fact I might post some of it on another thread in RM where someone was asking why CoCs claim to be non-denom, etc.

People love to ask that. A lot of people will "claim" RM is a denomination. Obviously, if they know anything at all or have studied it to any degree, they would know that's not true. There are in fact, a few Baptist universities that teach the church of Christ, and RM for that matter, to bea heresy. In any event, if people would take a look at the facts, then they would clearly recognize what the RM is about.

[GK]

That word "denomination" is a funny thing. Here at CF, we have to use it in a way that is different from how the RM, AoG, or Baptists use it. We use it in the more general "people who share beliefs and culture" sort of way, where RM, AoG, and Baptist members tend to use it in the more specific, "Rules, regulations, and a centralized government" sort of way.

RM isn't a denomination, and yet it does have its own culture. There are "heritage schools." There are a few doctrinal issues that are pretty much held by all. Out here, at least, RM churches have their own state gathering with their own leadership, even if that leadership has no explicit authority over the churches.

[constance]

Let's not forget that the Disciples of Christ are an official denomination. However, the thing that makes the DoC different from other denominations (like Methodists, for example) is that the local churches are autonomous.

Constance

[christianmomof3]

would my church fit in the restoration movement? Here is a website that explains it some http://localchurches.org/beliefs/index.html
I have met with this church for 15 years and have found it to be biblically sound and full of Christ.

[constance]

would my church fit in the restoration movement? Here is a website that explains it some http://localchurches.org/beliefs/index.html
I have met with this church for 15 years and have found it to be biblically sound and full of Christ.

The Restoration Movement began in America in the early 1800s.

The Local Churches began in China in the 1920s. A similar concept (for example, one church per town) but I think that there are a lot of differences.

Constance

[HeyHomie]

would my church fit in the restoration movement?

From what I've read, no. RM congregations self-identify, and nothing in the website mentions the RM at all.

[woman.at.the.well]

People love to ask that. A lot of people will "claim" RM is a denomination. Obviously, if they know anything at all or have studied it to any degree, they would know that's not true. There are in fact, a few Baptist universities that teach the church of Christ, and RM for that matter, to bea heresy. In any event, if people would take a look at the facts, then they would clearly recognize what the RM is about.

Thank you again Frame! Your guidance is much appreciated!

[SteelDisciple]

The term "Restoration Movement" refers to a collection of individual congregations without any centralized governing heirarchy, but who share similar core beliefs.

The goal of the Restoration Movement is to return to Biblical Christianity as practiced in the First Century. This means doing away with things that the leaders of the Restoration Movement thought were, at worst, un-Biblical, and at best, un-necessary. These things include, but are not limited to, rituals, written creeds, and governing heirarchies. Please note that the Restoration Movement makes no claim to being the continuation of the original Christian church. Rather, we strive to restore our worship and practices to what we believe was practiced in the first century church.

The key beliefs of the Restoration Movement that set its congregations apart from other evangelical Protestant churches are:

1) "No Creed but Christ." Acceptance of or adherence to a written creed is not necessary for fellowship, church membership, or participation in church practices. No Restoration Movement congregation has any written creeds.

2) "Where the Scriptures speak, we speak; where the Scriptures are silent, we are silent." In essence, this means that congregations affiliated with the Restoration Movement reject chatechisms and the like, and base their beliefs only on Scripture.

3) "In essentials, unity; in non-essentials, liberty; in all things, love." Believers affiliated with the Restoration Movement will not exclude other Christians from fellowship based on differing beliefs on "non-essential" doctrines. Restoration Movement believers will show love to believers with whom they may disagree.

4) "We are not the only Christians, but we are Christians only." Restoration Movement believers do not claim to be the only Christians, and we accept other believers who profess to believe in Jesus Christ as our brothers and sisters. However, we do not attach any other name to ourselves other than "Christian."

5) "The priesthood of all believers." We believe that all believers are "priests" and can access God through prayer without a human intermediary.

The main practices of the Restoration Movement are as follows:

A) Local control of congregations. Any and all decisions that affect a congregation, such as hiring, transfer or termination of staff; budget allocations; building projects; etc. are made by that congregation. No congregation is accountable to any governing heirarchy.

B) Lord's Supper every Sunday. We celebrate the Lord's Supper every Sunday. Any baptized believer is welcome to participate.

C) Believer's baptism by immersion. Only those who choose to baptised are baptised (we do not baptise infants or children who are too young to understand the decision). We baptise by full immersion.

D) Beauty through simplicity. Most Restoration Movement churches are rather austere, rejecting such things as candles, artwork, or stained glass windows, and are decorated quite simply.

Restoration Movement churches go by several styles of names. The most common type of name is the combination of a geographical place, for example a city or a street, and the words "Christian Church" or "Church of Christ." For example, if you're in Kalamazoo and you drive by Kalamazoo Christian Church, you can be 99% it's a Restoration Movement congregation.

There are some Restoration Movement congregations that practice non-instrumental worship. They almost exclusively use the name "Church of Christ" (as opposed to "Christian Church"). However, not all congregations that use the term "Church of Christ" are non-instrumental.

For more on the founding and the history of the Restoration Movement, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stone-Campbell_Movement.

For a thorough treatment of the five branches of the Restoration Movement and the divisions (some minor, some major) between them, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disciples_of_Christ.

----------

That's my proposed sticky to explain the Restoration Movement to any seekers or lurkers. Please feel free to offer additions, deletions, corrections or clarifications as you see fit.
I think all of that sounds nice. Except for the no artwork. Some of the most profound expressions of people's faith have been through art and poetry.

[constance]

The "no artwork" comment is probably a little more severe than necessary. For example, many RM churches have banners (you know, the ones with verses, etc), flowers, embroideries, and MANY older RM churches have stained glass windows. A lot of them use candles too.

Constance

[HeyHomie]

By "artwork," I mean, you know, artwork. Paintings, sculptures, ornamentation, all that.

Anyway, the point is moot. The "possible sticky" has become the Official sticky.

[constance]

Can you point me to a policy where it says that a sticky in error should not be modified?

[GK]

By "artwork," I mean, you know, artwork. Paintings, sculptures, ornamentation, all that.

Anyway, the point is moot. The "possible sticky" has become the Official sticky.
For heeding the call and writing it out, you are the official Keeper of the Sticky. You should be able to edit the sticky at any time. Moderators can edit it, as well. If changes need to be made, go ahead and make them.

[WesWoodell]

Please add these two links to the sticky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_christ

and

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Christian_Church

[constance]

I was a little surprised that this thread had been stickified - maybe I had missed the notice.

It would be good to include a link to the Restoration Texts web page at:
http://www.mun.ca/rels/restmov/subs/texts.html

I still request that the links to wikipedia.org would be changed to links to CF Wiki - I would be happy to help facilitate the creation of any necessary CF Wikis. I don't like either the DoC or the CoC wikipedia entry (due to mention of cults on both).

In addition, this paragraph does not take into account the fact that not all Restoration Movement churches are trying to restore primitive worship. Obviously, the Disciples of Christ have moved away from this model, and so have a fair number of independent CCs and CoCs. I've given a suggestion below.

The goal of the Restoration Movement is to return to Biblical Christianity as practiced in the First Century. This means doing away with things that the leaders of the Restoration Movement thought were, at worst, un-Biblical, and at best, un-necessary. These things include, but are not limited to,
The Restoration Movement is the name for a loosely affiliated group of churches that sought to unify all Christians by following the Biblical model of the Church as closely as possible, while allowing as much diversity as possible around issues not explicitly described in the Bible. The Restoration Movement churches have been especially wary of rituals, written creeds, and governing heirarchies. The Restoration Movement makes no claim to being the continuation of the original Christian church.

In the 20th Century, the Restoration Movement has developed in a variety of directions. Some churches have moved away from the founders' view of the New Testament as a pattern for contemporary worship and Church practice -- for these churches, the focus on Christian unity has led them to adopt practices more typical of other Protestant churches. Others continue to strive to restore their worship and practices to what they believe was practiced in the first century church.

Constance

[HeyHomie]

For heeding the call and writing it out, you are the official Keeper of the Sticky. You should be able to edit the sticky at any time. Moderators can edit it, as well. If changes need to be made, go ahead and make them.

Not so. I tried, and I seem to have no more access to that post than any other user. Which is a shame, because I'd like to edit the first two paragraphs to include what Constance has added, and also include her two links.

[GK]

:(

Weird. I thought members could edit their own posts. Must be because it's closed.

You're still the Keeper of the Sticky (just because someone needs to be), but I guess I'll have to make the actual changes. Post here or send me a PM with changes you'd like made, and I'll make them.

I'm asking for an individual to be the Keeper because it could get too crazy to keep updating every time someone requests a little change. Better to let it be worked out here and have one person who gets to pull the requests together and turn it into the actual change.

[WesWoodell]

Did anyone make the CF wiki's for the Churches of Christ and Independent Christian Churches yet?

[constance]

I thought it would be better if someone in those churches wrote (or at least vetted) them. I attended a CoC church for a year.

Wes, if you want to take a crack at CoC, I'd be happy to upload it to the Wiki section.

Same goes for ICC...

Constance

[GK]

The benefit to the wiki is that the work doesn't have to fall on one person. Start working on it with what you know and ask others to fill it in and improve on it.

Long-term, it would be much better for a sticky in this forum to point to our own wiki than offsite.

[constance]

Okie-dokie.

I'll take a crack at them tonight (we were gone all weekend on a search & call "mission" & are still decompressing, and I have to go to work!) & I'll post them here when I'm done.

Constance

[HeyHomie]

Long-term, it would be much better for a sticky in this forum to point to our own wiki than offsite.

I vehemently disagree with this. If it's kept internally, then the article can only be edited by a small group of people, most of whom are going to be biased (either for or against the RM). Having an external wiki means that it can be edited by anyone, which means that changes are more likely to come from unbiased sources.

[Lordcomesoon]

I am very curious, this is the first time I heard about this denomination! I didn’t read all yet, but what I like is that you go by the Bible only and that is real good because that is where the truth is.
But I am also a little bit confuse, it looks for me that you observe Sun day as the day to worship the Lord!!! When the Bible does not say anything about the first day of the week been sanctified or the seventh day been change to Sunday; from the beginning to the end of the Bible it talks about the seventh day Sabbath.
Like I said, I’m just curious.

[constance]

I am very curious, this is the first time I heard about this denomination! I didn’t read all yet, but what I like is that you go by the Bible only and that is real good because that is where the truth is.
But I am also a little bit confuse, it looks for me that you observe Sun day as the day to worship the Lord!!! When the Bible does not say anything about the first day of the week been sanctified or the seventh day been change to Sunday; from the beginning to the end of the Bible it talks about the seventh day Sabbath.
Like I said, I’m just curious.

Hi.

Acts 20:7 says
On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.

It is pretty clear that people met on SUNDAY for the purpose of communion.

The Bible doesn't say a lot of things that many Christians take for granted. For example, what does the Bible say about Marriage Ceremonies? Should we stop doing them if we can't find proof of them? What about Pastors? Church Buildings? Seminaries?

In addition, we tend to blend Old Testament (Jewish Law) with New Testament teachings. I don't believe this is healthy (for example, the stressing of a 10% tithe as opposed to the New Testament teachings. - I believe this focuses our efforts on cash $ gifts instead of our time and talents, and I think you would find more than 10% $$ would be given if people were truly taught to be cheerful givers.), especially when we don't follow the whole of the Law (for example, many Christians enjoy their Ham & Cheese omlette, or their Bacon Cheeseburgers).

Are we Gentiles or Jews?

Constance

[GK]

I vehemently disagree with this. If it's kept internally, then the article can only be edited by a small group of people, most of whom are going to be biased (either for or against the RM). Having an external wiki means that it can be edited by anyone, which means that changes are more likely to come from unbiased sources.
I stand by my statement, but let me explain what I mean by it a bit more. :P

Long-term, I think it would be wonderful if the wiki entries here were good enough that we would be able to use them instead of having to go off-site. I understand that may or may not happen and have no problem with the wikipedia entries. But I'm going to remain an optimist and hope someday it might work to link to our own. This assumes, of course, that we (CF members) are able to create some really good documents.

[GK]

Closing this thread as it's getting unwieldy. If there's further discussion on this, feel free to start a new thread. :)