Must I put my dog outside?

[georgia123]

:wave:

I was reading this morning in The Philokalia Volume one the chapter on discrimination which was written by Evagrios the Solitary. I came across this sentence in paragraph #5, it's almost all the way to the end of the paragraph, "And do we not learn the same from the mysterious and ancient custom of putting dogs out of the house during prayer?" Have any of you ever heard of this custom? If you have could you give me a bit more of the details? I have never heard of it and am quite curious as to why I should put my dog outside when I go to pray. Thank you so much for your help.

[choirfiend]

Well, dogs arent allowed in churches according to the canons...I think it comes from them being seen, especially in the middle east, as dirty animals (flea ridden, scabby scavengers). Calling someone a dog is a great insult, after all! Cats, however, were allowed in churches because they eat mice. I dont think that sort of thing is quite the same as with our beloved family pets.

It should probably get taken figuratively: put out the distractions, clean your mental "house" when you come to pray.

[georgia123]

I'm sure that you are right, that it is to be taken figuratively. I was fascinated by this, as I had never heard of it. I wonder if it might have been the custom all over the middle east at that time.

[choirfiend]

Probably, yes, since dogs aren't allowed in churches and your home, especially when you're praying, is a 'little church.' Made sense to put the dog out, then--but I think our pets are something different.

[Xpycoctomos]

Probably, yes, since dogs aren't allowed in churches and your home, especially when you're praying, is a 'little church.' Made sense to put the dog out, then--but I think our pets are something different.

I agree.

To the OP: be careful with the Philokalia. It wasn't gathered for the everyday Joe. Ask your spiritual father for guidance when reading it. A lot will tell their spiritual children not to read it so they don't develop scrupels or pay attention to the wrong thing. (Not that I'm saying you shpouldn't read it... that's between you and your spiritual father)

John

[ClementofRome]

Forgive me for intruding.

It seems that this is a practical instruction. When my dogs are in the house, they can want attention, bark over nothing, fight with each other, cause disturbance. When one is in prayer, one does not want the interuption. Put the dogs out.

Thank you for allowing me to comment. Forgive me if I am out of line.
Blessings,
Clem

[Xpycoctomos]

You're not out of line at all and that would make sense that they would have had that in mind. (and at the very least, it is a good reason for today) but there is definitely a middle eastern idea that goes way back that the dogs are filthy creatures. No one would ever have thought of having dogs for pets like we do today. They were considered filthy beasts. Mustlims (or at least in certain cultures) believe that dogs scare away the angels so it is kind of forbidden to ahve them as pets. I imagine that they did not invent that idea but rather adopted from the pre-muslim arabic culture (but, I'm not an historian).

John

[georgia123]

That's fascinating, I never heard that some Moslem's think or thought that dogs scare away angels. This is why I posted this, to see what might be behind the idea. I love the responses that all of you have shared. Thank you all so much.

[MariaRegina]

Does a cat fight also scare away angels?

I have awakened to the scary screams of cats thinking that someone was dying outside my window.

And once the subdeacon had to rush outside to stop a cat fight which was distracting the congregation.

[Xpycoctomos]

Does a cat fight also scare away angels?

I have awakened to the scary screams of cats thinking that someone was dying outside my window.

And once the subdeacon had to rush outside to stop a cat fight which was distracting the congregation.
lol

[Orthocat]

Someone mention cats?

Eating mice??? puh-leeze. It's Fancy Feasts or nothing, thank you. And put it on a nice linen napkin to wipe my whiskers...

[Akathist]

I agree.

To the OP: be careful with the Philokalia. It wasn't gathered for the everyday Joe. Ask your spiritual father for guidance when reading it. A lot will tell their spiritual children not to read it so they don't develop scrupels or pay attention to the wrong thing. (Not that I'm saying you shpouldn't read it... that's between you and your spiritual father)

John

I agree. I was discouraged to read it. When I first was converting I became rather scrupelous (spellling?) I would have felt the need to hold myself to that high a level when I was just learning to crawl in the faith.

I would say that it is important to put things away that might distract during prayers. I have two senior citizen cats and they love prayer time and have always been really good to lie down when I put on my scarf and light the oil lamp. However, I have one who can get riled up sometimes and a couple times she wouldn't settle and was distracting me. I might have put her out of the room but instead I just took care of what was getting her riled up (she wanted the window opened... yes, she is spoiled :P ) and went back to prayers.

[Eusebios]

In my experience, I have had much better luck with my Pit-Bulls being mousers than my cat :)
In all seriousness, I think that the instruction is figurative and deals with putting distractions out.
Also, I talked to my daughter, a Muslim. She confirms that there is a hadith that pronounces dogs as "dirty". She surmises that this has to do with the fact that there were problems with large numbers of feral dogs, who as others have surmised carried fleas and various diseases. She also confirma that the same hadith indicates that dogs bar the presence of angels.
She and I were both speculating as to whether this was a cultural more that carried over into a religious one, or vice-versa. We did agree that at times things are carried to extremes within religious systems.
This brings up another good point which others have already made. The Philokalia, as instructive as it can be, should indeed be read only under the guidance of one's Spiritual Father.
In Xp,
Eusebios
:bow:

[Asinner]

Now I have that annoying song, "Who let the Dogs Out" in my head. :doh: Woof, woof, woof . . . :help:

[Michael the Iconographer]

I agree.

To the OP: be careful with the Philokalia. It wasn't gathered for the everyday Joe. Ask your spiritual father for guidance when reading it. A lot will tell their spiritual children not to read it so they don't develop scrupels or pay attention to the wrong thing. (Not that I'm saying you shpouldn't read it... that's between you and your spiritual father)

John
Yes, be very, very careful of the Philokalia. You would not expect your average person to be able to read and understand a doctoral dissertation on mathematics, and in the same way your average Orthodox Christian should not read the Philokalia without the guidance of your spiritual father. I have actually heard priests say reading such works as the Philokalia or the Ladder of Divine Ascent on your own could do more damage than good spiritually.