Identifying Orthodoxy

[David65]

A Roman Catholic friend told me today about a local congregation which calls themselves Catholic, but is out of communion with the RCC.

I'd really like to get to know an Orthodox church, and have found one that looks interesting. How do I know if they are legitimately Orthodox without insulting the priest?

Here are a couple snippets from their web site:


St. John Chrysostom Antiochian Orthodox Church is a parish of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America and the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Antioch and All the East.



St. John Chrysostom Antiochian Orthodox Church was established in York in 1992 under the spiritual guidance of Patriarch Ignatios IV of Antioch in Syria, and his North American representative, Metropolitan Phillip.


This seems OK?

[moses916]

Yes... its legit. :)

[jckstraw72]

ive been there. its a great church, the priest is the father of a girl who is an alumni of our local OCF here at PSU.

[David65]

Wow! That was fast.

Thank you.

[Dust and Ashes]

If they are under Metropolitan Philip, they should be ok. Can you link their site?

[moses916]

Site (http://yourpage.blazenet.net/Chrysostom/main.html)

[ThePilgrim]

A Roman Catholic friend told me today about a local congregation which calls themselves Catholic, but is out of communion with the RCC.

I'd really like to get to know an Orthodox church, and have found one that looks interesting. How do I know if they are legitimately Orthodox without insulting the priest?

Here are a couple snippets from their web site:





This seems OK?
Yup, that Church is legitimate :-)

As a general rule, I don't think must priests would be offended by you asking questions to make sure that their Church is canonically/legitimately Orthodox. I imagine any Orthodox priest would be happy to see that you were being careful. He'd also have no reason to hide anything.

If a priest got really flustered at you asking that, that probably would be a bad sign.

Grace and peace,
John

[choirfiend]

Oh, yeah, you'll love Fr. Pier!!! That's also the church jckstraw goes to when not at PSU, isnt, jckstraw? Lots of PA folks about; that rocks.

[jckstraw72]

That's also the church jckstraw goes to when not at PSU, isnt, jckstraw?

si si

[knee-v]

Yup, that Church is legitimate :-)

As a general rule, I don't think must priests would be offended by you asking questions to make sure that their Church is canonically/legitimately Orthodox. I imagine any Orthodox priest would be happy to see that you were being careful. He'd also have no reason to hide anything.

If a priest got really flustered at you asking that, that probably would be a bad sign.

Grace and peace,
John

I agree. If in doubt, just straight up ask. If you get a direct answer of yes, it's probably legit. If they try to get around the question somehow, or say something like, "Well, the word 'canonical' is highly overrated", then it's probably not legit.

[Maksim]

One easy way to check if you have any doubt is by looking a church up at http://www.orthodoxyinamerica.org

It doesn't have every church in America supposedly, but if it is there you can bet it's legit. No doubt in this case, but for future reference. :)

[Gnisios]

If they try to get around the question somehow, or say something like, "Well, the word 'canonical' is highly overrated", then it's probably not legit.

With all due respect, 'un-canonical' and 'not recognized' isn't same. I agree there are 'paper' or vagante pseudo-Orthodox Churches out there but let's not put everyone in the same box.

Some of you already know that I'm an Old-Calanderist in communion with ROCOR, and even though we are not 'officialy recognized' (yet) no one ever seriously doubted the validity of our Sacraments. A good article on what is canonical can be found here (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/schmem_canon.aspx). Personally, I would like to stay out of this kind of debates but I will beg everyone to respect their fellow Orthodox brothers/sisters who for various reasons belong to the Old-Calendar Tradition. Thanks for your understanding.

[eoe]

Not only are they legit but you can find out what street they are located still to this day by looking in your bible.

(Acts 9:8) And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

(Acts 9:9) And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

(Acts 9:10) And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

(Acts 9:11) And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

(Acts 9:12) And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

(Acts 9:13) Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

(Acts 9:14) And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

(Acts 9:15) But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:


The "headquarters" for the Antiochian Church is still to this day on the street which is called Straight.

Also.....

The church in Antioch was the first to be called "Christian"

(Acts 11:26) And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

[HandmaidenOfGod]

David,

If you would like to learn more about the Antiochian Diocese, you can check out their website at http://antiochian.org/.

In addition to Orthodoxyinamerica.com, here is another website where you can check to see if a Church is Canonical: http://www.scoba.us/

Here is a brief description from their website:

Founded in 1960, the Standing Conference of the Canonical Orthodox Bishops in the Americas (SCOBA), brings together the canonical hierarchs of Orthodox jurisdictions in the Americas.

Hope this helps!

In XC,

Maureen

[OIT]

With all due respect, canonical and not recognized isn't same. I agree there are 'paper' or 'vagante' pseudo-Orthodox Churches out there but let's not put everyone in the same box.

Some of you already know that I'm an Old-Calanderist in communion with ROCOR, and even though we are not 'officialy recognized' (yet) no one ever seriously doubted the validity of our Sacraments. A good article on what is canonical can be found here. Personally, I would like to stay out of this kind of debates but I will beg everyone to respect their fellow Orthodox brothers/sisters who for various reasons belong to the Old-Calendar Tradition. Thanks for your understanding.

I second this.

[ClementofRome]

As one who is a regular "lurker" can someone shed light on this "legit"/"not legit" issue?

For instance....what about these folks?

http://www.orthodoxcatholicchurch.org/index.html

[Nickolai]

As one who is a regular "lurker" can someone shed light on this "legit"/"not legit" issue?

For instance....what about these folks?

http://www.orthodoxcatholicchurch.org/index.html

Heck no!!! They even ordain women.

[Oblio]

As one who is a regular "lurker" can someone shed light on this "legit"/"not legit" issue?

For instance....what about these folks?

http://www.orthodoxcatholicchurch.org/index.html

Heterodox.

[Nickolai]

With all due respect, 'un-canonical' and 'not recognized' isn't same. I agree there are 'paper' or vagante pseudo-Orthodox Churches out there but let's not put everyone in the same box.

Some of you already know that I'm an Old-Calanderist in communion with ROCOR, and even though we are not 'officialy recognized' (yet) no one ever seriously doubted the validity of our Sacraments. A good article on what is canonical can be found here (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/schmem_canon.aspx). Personally, I would like to stay out of this kind of debates but I will beg everyone to respect their fellow Orthodox brothers/sisters who for various reasons belong to the Old-Calendar Tradition. Thanks for your understanding.

Are you TOCOG?

[Gnisios]

As one who is a regular "lurker" can someone shed light on this "legit"/"not legit" issue?

For instance....what about these folks?

http://www.orthodoxcatholicchurch.org/index.html

The issue of what and who is canonical/un-canonical, from a patristic perspective, is very much complicated and not easy to analyze it fully in a thread. There are many parametres and dimensions we have to consider before 'declaring' someone legit/not legit. We have to go back in history, check the Canon Law, confirm their Apostolic Succession, make sure they uphold the traditional Orthodox testimony/faith, confirm their moral/ethical integrity, examine the reasons of estrangement, apply or not apply economy, etc...etc...etc. Every case is different.

I also need to underline that this issue -fortunately- does not really affect the Orthodox life in Europe as believers here know from their own experience who is a true Orthodox and who isn't. The situation is different in the US where all kind of self-proclaimed 'bishops' and so called 'Orthodox' Churches exist. In every case though, I still beg my brothers/sisters not to draw any conclusions only because a Church or a bishop is listed or not listed in an 'official' website.

As for your link, they are not Eastern Orthodox since their Apostolic Succession comes from the Old Catholic tradition. I'm not even sure they claim to be EO because they use the terms 'orthodox' and 'catholic' to underline the right faith and universal character of the church and not the EO tradition.

[Gnisios]

Are you TOCOG?

No, I'm an Orthodox Christian actually :)

If you mean the Orthodox body I belong, it's the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia. At the moment, I live in a monastery of the TOC in Greece which is in communion with my own ROCOR. I'm a permanent guest here! LOL And yes, I'm an Old-Calanderist.

[ClementofRome]

The issue of what and who is canonical/un-canonical, from a patristic perspective, is very much complicated and not easy to analyze it fully in a thread. There are many parametres and dimensions we have to consider before 'declaring' someone legit/not legit. We have to go back in history, check the Canon Law, confirm their Apostolic Succession, make sure they uphold the traditional Orthodox testimony/faith, confirm their moral/ethical integrity, examine the reasons of estrangement, apply or not apply economy, etc...etc...etc. Every case is different.

I also need to underline that this issue -fortunately- does not really affect the Orthodox life in Europe as believers here know from their own experience who is a true Orthodox and who isn't. The situation is different in the US where all kind of self-proclaimed 'bishops' and so called 'Orthodox' Churches exist. In every case though, I still beg my brothers/sisters not to draw any conclusions only because a Church or a bishop is listed or not listed in an 'official' website.

As for your link, they are not Eastern Orthodox since their Apostolic Succession comes from the Old Catholic tradition. I'm not even sure they claim to be EO because they use the terms 'orthodox' and 'catholic' to underline the right faith and universal character of the church. For sure they are not EO.

Thank you for a serious answer to my inquiry.

Blessings,
Clem

[Nickolai]

No, I'm an Orthodox Christian actually :)

If you mean the Orthodox body I belong, it's the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia. At the moment, I live in a monastery of the TOC in Greece which is in communion with my own ROCOR. I'm a permanent guest here! LOL And yes, I'm an Old-Calanderist.

Fair enough Father.

Forgive my bluntness, but how did a Hieromonk from a heavily russian tradition end up in a greek monastary? Just curious.

[choirfiend]

Clem,

Here is a link to the Orthodox Churches of the world--anyone not listed here is somehow separated from the Orthodox Church worldwide and is not in full communion for some reason, even if it is a poor political one. For the Orthodox, schism is a big deal, so when/if there is one, especially for poor reasons, much prayer is needed. There's one thing that can be said for the Orthodox, and that, as history shows forth, one does not break communion with the Church lightly, even if one disagrees with it. The Church did not split over Arianism; the Church met and talked, and those who were Arian accepted the ruling of the Church in Council under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, even if they may have disagreed. Where one does leave the Church because of non-theological reasons (ie, the group has Orthodox beliefs but refuses to remain in communion with the Orthodox Church because of some reason or another), it's a real separation--and not one to be taken lightly.

http://aggreen.net/autocephaly/autoceph.html

If you stick with the jurisdictions listed in that link, you will never go wrong.

[Theophorus]

With all due respect, 'un-canonical' and 'not recognized' isn't same. I agree there are 'paper' or vagante pseudo-Orthodox Churches out there but let's not put everyone in the same box.

Some of you already know that I'm an Old-Calanderist in communion with ROCOR, and even though we are not 'officialy recognized' (yet) no one ever seriously doubted the validity of our Sacraments. A good article on what is canonical can be found here (http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/ecumenism/schmem_canon.aspx). Personally, I would like to stay out of this kind of debates but I will beg everyone to respect their fellow Orthodox brothers/sisters who for various reasons belong to the Old-Calendar Tradition. Thanks for your understanding.

An encouraging observation of mine, being fairly new; I have seen new calendar Greek moanstics in communion with old calendar ROCOR, and I have seen new calendar OCA with old calendar Serbians breaking ground together on a new Church. (at least on filmin the latter case :P).

[Gnisios]

Fair enough Father.

Forgive my bluntness, but how did a Hieromonk from a heavily russian tradition end up in a greek monastary? Just curious.

That's a fine question and nothing to hide. :)

Let's start from the beginning: I took my monastic vows and was ordained as priest within the state Church of Greece two years after I graduated the Athens medical school. Some years later, 5 actually, I went to Athos for a 'sabbatical' with the blessings of my state CoG bishop.

During my stay there, I came in touch with many monks who shared the same concerns with me on some practises of the state Church. It was also during my days in the Holy Mountain when I was first introduced to ROCOR lay members. When they were ready to go back to their country, the US, they promised to talk to their bishop about me. Indeed, after a couple of months I was contacted by their spiritual father and was invited to visit him in NYC.

In the meanwhile, I was preety much enjoying the spiritual atmosphere of Athos. It was a real blessing and an unforgetable experience so I asked from my bishop to grand me a 2 more months permission to stay there. He was kind enough to bless my request. I was also very much eager to visit the ROCOR family in the US. Many Russian monks in Athos (although not in communion with ROCOR) told me of their good and godly reputation.

When I returned to my monastery in Epirus, (that's the place I served) I started corresponding with the brothers in the US. They taught me of the Russian Orthodox tradition, their struggle during/against communism, their view on modern ecclesiology and crisis within Orthodoxy, and the need to return to the basics of our Tradition.*

Although I didn't disagree at all, I felt I had to share this information with my bishop...and so I did. To my surprise, he was very understanding and asked me to seek God's will in this matter. In addition, the brothers from the US invited me to stay with them in NY and see/judge for myself. Once more I asked the blessing of my bishop and although he hesitated at first, he finally allowed me to go. Indeed, I stayed in one of their monasteries but to be honest, I couldn't understand or speak Russian. The culture also was so different. However, day by day it was geting easier and all my converstations with the bishops and monks were in English. Finally, I accepted their invitation to join ROCOR (as traditional Orthodox of course and not as Greek) so I immidiately informed by telephone and letter my bishop in Greece. He was sad but he said he has no right to stop me if God is leading me to such direction. He did all the paperwork necessary to remove my name from the state CoG clergy list, and sent me a very touching and uplifting letter together with a small cross and Orthodox prayer beads (komposkini). Once more I wish to thank him publicly!

As you said, its really difficult for a Greek to change his culture and ROCOR knew this. My new bishop told me of their affiliation with a TOCoG monastery in Athens and asked me if I want to move there as member of ROCOR of course. The monastery is well known for providing hospitality and accepting fellow Orthodox Traditionalists.That was an answer to my prayers....I don't hide I was getting homesick and couldn't say how long I had to be away from my country. By the grace of God everything was arranged and now I'm back in my country and very much happy of the direction I took.

* That wasn't news to me because I always sympathized the Traditional Wing within the state Church that always had good relationship with the Old-Calanderists. Leader of this movement is the (now retired) bishop of Florina, HG +Augustine.

[Gnisios]

An encouraging observation of mine, being fairly new; I have seen new calendar Greek moanstics in communion with old calendar ROCOR, and I have seen new calendar OCA with old calendar Serbians breaking ground together on a new Church. (at least on filmin the latter case :P).

Happens all the time brother, fortunately. All Orthodox Christians are united by the same faith and baptism no matter calendar or synod. (I don't mean vagante pseud-'Orthodox' Churches here)

In addition, we all have to make our personal choices but we can't force people to do something against their will or produce an army of fanatic followers as many extremists from both sides do. For this very reason I never judge people by their particular Orthodox tradition but I try to find bridges of communication and mutual understanding. Everything else is in vain and not at all Orthodox. Even debating on this issue is vanity.

[Gnisios]

Clem,

Here is a link to the Orthodox Churches of the world--anyone not listed here is somehow separated from the Orthodox Church worldwide and is not in full communion for some reason, even if it is a poor political one. For the Orthodox, schism is a big deal, so when/if there is one, especially for poor reasons, much prayer is needed. There's one thing that can be said for the Orthodox, and that, as history shows forth, one does not break communion with the Church lightly, even if one disagrees with it. The Church did not split over Arianism; the Church met and talked, and those who were Arian accepted the ruling of the Church in Council under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, even if they may have disagreed. Where one does leave the Church because of non-theological reasons (ie, the group has Orthodox beliefs but refuses to remain in communion with the Orthodox Church because of some reason or another), it's a real separation--and not one to be taken lightly.

http://aggreen.net/autocephaly/autoceph.html

If you stick with the jurisdictions listed in that link, you will never go wrong.

Ouch choirfriend! You gave them hints on which synod the monastery I now live belong....hehehe I tried to keep it a 'secret' since I haven't asked for their blessing to use any names in public! LOL

[choirfiend]

Oh, did I? I hadn't read your PM yet when I wrote that...I'm speaking of any and all groups that have broken communion with Orthodoxy over things political or practical--not theological. I dont think that's a hint to anything--there are probably half a dozen groups that fit that bill.

[Gnisios]

Oh, did I? I hadn't read your PM yet when I wrote that...I'm speaking of any and all groups that have broken communion with Orthodoxy over things political or practical--not theological. I dont think that's a hint to anything--there are probably half a dozen groups that fit that bill.

I know my dear sister....just kidding :wave:

[Torah613]

A Roman Catholic friend told me today about a local congregation which calls themselves Catholic, but is out of communion with the RCC.

I'd really like to get to know an Orthodox church, and have found one that looks interesting. How do I know if they are legitimately Orthodox without insulting the priest?

Here are a couple snippets from their web site:





This seems OK?

check out www.antiochian.org (http://www.antiochian.org) (IIRC that is their website). If they are on there, they are legit.

also check out the parish locator at www.orthodoxyusa.org (http://www.orthodoxyusa.org) if they are on there they are likewise legit.

Joe Zollars

[Torah613]

umm that should have been www.orthodoxyinamerica.com (http://www.orthodoxyinamerica.com)

[Torah613]

As one who is a regular "lurker" can someone shed light on this "legit"/"not legit" issue?

For instance....what about these folks?

http://www.orthodoxcatholicchurch.org/index.html

I am personally aquainted with a number of clerics from that ecclesial body. Lovely bunch of people.

Lovely though they be, the whole lot is a bunch of heretics. They do indeed claim to be Orthodox, yet pick and choose which Orthodox doctrines to follow.

Joe Zollars

[eoe]

http://www.orthodoxcatholicchurch.org/images/viningl.jpg

Mother Linda Vining


http://www.orthodoxcatholicchurch.org/images/walkerl.jpg

Mother Lynn Walker



They are not Orthodox.

[ClementofRome]

Clem,

http://aggreen.net/autocephaly/autoceph.html

If you stick with the jurisdictions listed in that link, you will never go wrong.

Thank you choirfriend. I did not see the following in the list...can you give me some insight:

http://www.acrod.org/index.html

[HandmaidenOfGod]

Thank you choirfriend. I did not see the following in the list...can you give me some insight:

http://www.acrod.org/index.html

They are fully Canonical. (See http://scoba.us/)

There is a Carpatho-Russian Church down the street from my OCA Parish and we will invite one another to different services, dinners, etc.

As I understand it, they were Eastern Rite Catholics who returned to the Orthodox faith in 1938. (Corrected date.)

Hope this helps!

In XC,

Maureen

[Rilian]

As I understand it, they were Eastern Rite Catholics who returned to the Orthodox faith in the mid 1800's.

Hope this helps!

In XC,

Maureen

They are former Carpatho-Rusyn Uniates who returned to the church, but in the 1930's. Lots of churches in the Northeast in the OCA come from a simliar background. Fr. Hopko's family was Byzantine Catholic.

[choirfiend]

Ah, yes,...Some of the confusion may arise from the fact that ACROD is a Dioscese under the Ecumenical Patriarch/Church of Constaninople.
Like, there are Bulgarian and Romanian diocese that are under the OCA, not the Church of Bulgaria or Romania...
Like most of the arab or antiochian churches in America are under the Church of Antioch, but a few fall in the Church of Jerusalem's governing...

A Diocese is just a segment of a larger Church that will yield varying amounts of self-government. A Diocese may not be named the same thing as the Church/jurisdiction it is under. Hence American-Carpatho-Russian Orthodox DIOCESE, not Church....The same thing goes for the Greek Orthodox ArchDIOCESE of N. America and the Antiochian ArchDIOCESE of America...it indicates that they are not independent, but fall under the governing of a larger group, and the ACROD website does say:

The American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese was established in 1938 by His-All Holiness, the late Benjamin I, Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, under the Patriarchal Seal in the official Patriarchal Document listed under Protocol No. 1379 and dated September 19, 1938, and was canonized in the name of the Holy Orthodox Church of Christ. The Diocese was incorporated in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania in 1950.

[ClementofRome]

Ah, yes,...Some of the confusion may arise from the fact that ACROD is a Dioscese under the Ecumenical Patriarch/Church of Constaninople.
Like, there are Bulgarian and Romanian diocese that are under the OCA, not the Church of Bulgaria or Romania...
Like most of the arab or antiochian churches in America are under the Church of Antioch, but a few fall in the Church of Jerusalem's governing...

A Diocese is just a segment of a larger Church that will yield varying amounts of self-government. A Diocese may not be named the same thing as the Church/jurisdiction it is under. Hence American-Carpatho-Russian Orthodox DIOCESE, not Church....The same thing goes for the Greek Orthodox ArchDIOCESE of N. America and the Antiochian ArchDIOCESE of America...it indicates that they are not independent, but fall under the governing of a larger group, and the ACROD website does say:

The American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese was established in 1938 by His-All Holiness, the late Benjamin I, Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, under the Patriarchal Seal in the official Patriarchal Document listed under Protocol No. 1379 and dated September 19, 1938, and was canonized in the name of the Holy Orthodox Church of Christ. The Diocese was incorporated in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania in 1950.


Thank you.

...and I thought Protestant denominationalism was confusing!!! ;)

[ClementofRome]

I am personally aquainted with a number of clerics from that ecclesial body. Lovely bunch of people.

Lovely though they be, the whole lot is a bunch of heretics. They do indeed claim to be Orthodox, yet pick and choose which Orthodox doctrines to follow.

Joe Zollars

I too have met several clerics from this group. I have in fact heard Mother Lynn Walker deliver the "charge" to a newly ordained monk and she is one heck of a powerful speaker!

I thought it odd that the two "modern" saints listed in their website were gay men.

I do not want to be a judge as I am not Orthodox, but the DL that I attended with the OCCA bunch was beautiful.

This is all very interesting. Thank you for sharing with me.

[Oblio]

Thank you.

...and I thought Protestant denominationalism was confusing!!! ;)


The difference of course is the substance of the confusion (that being the anomaly of our immigrant culture and the Bolshevik revolution). I can (and have) walked into an ACROD (or Greek, or Russian, or Romanian ...) parish and feel completely at home. I know that we believe exactly the same thing. Theologically, there is no confusion or deviation.

[Dust and Ashes]

The difference of course is the substance of the confusion (that being the anomaly of our immigrant culture and the Bolshevik revolution). I can (and have) walked into am ACROD (or Greek, or Russian, or Romanian ...) parish and feel completely at home. I know that we believe exactly the same thing. Theologically, there is no confusion or deviation.

I know it blows my mind to think about this. We could walk into an Orthodox Church anywhere on earth and the language and culture might be different but the faith is exactly the same. Wow...:crosseo:

[ClementofRome]

The difference of course is the substance of the confusion (that being the anomaly of our immigrant culture and the Bolshevik revolution). I can (and have) walked into am ACROD (or Greek, or Russian, or Romanian ...) parish and feel completely at home. I know that we believe exactly the same thing. Theologically, there is no confusion or deviation.

Yes, I understand that this is the difference. With Protestant denominationalism, there is a WIDE variation of belief. It is sad actually.

I was just making fun of the admission that there is some confusion, esp for us who are not familiar, in the EO traditions! :thumbsup:

BTW, love your T-shirt in your pic! We should discuss that some time. :)

[MariaRegina]

No, I'm an Orthodox Christian actually :)

If you mean the Orthodox body I belong, it's the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia. At the moment, I live in a monastery of the TOC in Greece which is in communion with my own ROCOR. I'm a permanent guest here! LOL And yes, I'm an Old-Calanderist.

Dear Father,

Father bless!

I just read your profile, and noticed that you are a hieromonk.

CF has a policy where users who are priests can have a "P" placed immediately after their user name. Of course, I think that is optional, and that ad may not be desired if you don't want to offer pastoral information.

We used to have an Antiochian Priest who would visit CF occasionally. His name is Father Gregory, but I haven't 'seen' him post at CF in a while.

Respectfully in Christ,
Elizabeth

[Torah613]

I too have met several clerics from this group. I have in fact heard Mother Lynn Walker deliver the "charge" to a newly ordained monk and she is one heck of a powerful speaker!

I thought it odd that the two "modern" saints listed in their website were gay men.

I do not want to be a judge as I am not Orthodox, but the DL that I attended with the OCCA bunch was beautiful.

This is all very interesting. Thank you for sharing with me.

If I may be so bold, where was it that you attended their services?

I am more familiar with the midwestern bunch in particular "bp" ed and "fr." Richard. Those that I have met there are some of hte nicest, sweetest people I've met. But, religiously speaking, their a cracking bunch of loonies.

Joe Zollars

[Gnisios]

Dear Father,

Father bless!

I just read your profile, and noticed that you are a hieromonk.

CF has a policy where users who are priests can have a "P" placed immediately after their user name. Of course, I think that is optional, and that ad may not be desired if you don't want to offer pastoral information.

We used to have an Antiochian Priest who would visit CF occasionally. His name is Father Gregory, but I haven't 'seen' him post at CF in a while.

Respectfully in Christ,
Elizabeth

Thank you sister. Your blessing too.

I don't know much about the CF policy on Priests but I don't really mind. What I'm looking for is fellowship and communion with other Orthodox believers around the world. Soon I won't be able to log in so often due to the 'heavy' schedule of the Monastery but I'm glad I made some friends already. I feel blessed, encouraged and renewed.

PS: Please call me 'brother'.

[Prawnik]

I thought it odd that the two "modern" saints listed in their website were gay men.


I suspect that this was part of the point, especially in light of the fact that this church seems intent on underscoring the gayness of the men in question.

"Look how inclusive we are! Look how enlightened, how un-institutional!"

[Gnisios]

Brothers and sisters, there are many Churches like that out there. I'm not surprised anymore. Even they use terms like catholic and orthodox in a wider sense, they still don't meet the standard requirements.

[ClementofRome]

If I may be so bold, where was it that you attended their services?

I am more familiar with the midwestern bunch in particular "bp" ed and "fr." Richard. Those that I have met there are some of hte nicest, sweetest people I've met. But, religiously speaking, their a cracking bunch of loonies.

Joe Zollars

Certainly, Mother Lynn Walker came down from NYC and Bishop F. Vincent Cuestas came from whereever he is located to preside over an ordination (is this the correct word?) of a priest, a monk and serveral readers and the like. The service was held in the chapel of a large United Methodist Church in Greenville, SC.....this would have been in March of last year I believe. It was my understanding that the local OCCA chapel was not large enough to seat all who would be in attendance , so they borrowed the chapel frorm the Methodists.

How I got invited to this event is another story all together, but the choir from the college where I teach was asked to come and sing /chant the DL (again, I apologize if I have not correctly stated things). I accompanied the choir. This was my first exposure to a DL .

Agreed, they were a lovely and beautiful bunch of people. At the time, I had no idea about their theology or "inclusiveness."

[David65]

Update:
I visited St. John Chrysostom last Wednesday for the Pre-sanctified Liturgy. The people, and the service, were amazing. I'm expecting to be back again once my business travel permits. Thanks to all and to God.

[eoe]

I visited St. John Chrysostom last Wednesday for the Pre-sanctified Liturgy. The people, and the service, were amazing. I'm expecting to be back again once my business travel permits. Thanks to all and to God.

Wonderful news! I hope that you get to see a "normal" Liturgy soon.

[Xpycoctomos]

Thank you.

...and I thought Protestant denominationalism was confusing!!! ;)


Yeah, welcome to our mess. It's our dirty little secret ;) lol


The difference of course is the substance of the confusion (that being the anomaly of our immigrant culture and the Bolshevik revolution). I can (and have) walked into an ACROD (or Greek, or Russian, or Romanian ...) parish and feel completely at home. I know that we believe exactly the same thing. Theologically, there is no confusion or deviation.


This is important to point out. it may be a mess (and really.. it is.. a huge mess) but I'd rather have confusing (and un-cabnonical) jurisdictional lines than not being sure if this Church beleives the same as I.

[Xpycoctomos]

I too have met several clerics from this group. I have in fact heard Mother Lynn Walker deliver the "charge" to a newly ordained monk and she is one heck of a powerful speaker!

I thought it odd that the two "modern" saints listed in their website were gay men.

yikes scooby!