Where are the 7th Day Baptists ?

[Silver Surfer]

I would like to talk with a 7th day Baptist....as they are identified in the Bible.
Revelation 14:12 "Here is the patience of the saints: here [are] they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus".

Since they keep the 7th day sabbath, they therefore keep all 10 commandments of God, as well as having the faith of Jesus.

God has identifed them as His people.

Those who keep Sunday are not identified here, as they do not keep God's 10 commandments.

[RED that's ME]

I know some disagree on what is/isn't the day we should observe at the Sabbath. Mainstream Baptist hold to Sunday as the Sabbath Biblically.

Here's a good explanation on why mainstream Baptists hold to Sunday as the Sabbath.

http://experts.about.com/q/Baptists-954/sabbath-issue.htm (http://experts.about.com/q/Baptists-954/sabbath-issue.htm)
We believe that the change in day for the sabbath to Sunday was Divinely Authorized. When Jesus declared that “the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath,” He wanted them to understand that He had the power to change the day on which the holy rest should be obversed and the way it which it should be observed. Scriptures clearly indicate that the Sabbath was celebrated on different days.
1. Orginally, as seen in Genesis 2:3, the Sabbath was to be observed after the six days of work by God. Here, in the institution of the Sabbath, it is distinclty declared to be a day of Holy rest after 6 days of labor, and it was to be a memorial of creation.
2. The next mention of the Sabbath is in connection with the gving of the manna (Ex 16:14-31). Here the manna is stated to have fallen for 6 days, that is from the 16th to the 21st day of the second month; and that the day following, or the twenty-second, was the frirst 7th day Sabbath celebrated in the Wilderness of Sin. “See for the Lord has given you the sabbath, so He has given you on the 6th day the bread of life for 2 days. So the people rested on the 7th day.” The Sabbath as a holy rest was re-established at this time. There is controversy over what day was actually observed. If the 22 day was a Sabbath day, then the 15th should have been also, but it was not because they marched that day. Dr. W. H. Rogers holds that “the only change of the Sabbath by God's authority is for the Jeews between the giving of the manna and the resurrrection of Christ. The first day of the week, but always the 7th after 6 working days was the day of the holy rest from Adam to Moses. The Sabbatism was separated from idolatry by changing it from Sunday to Saturday among the chosen people ‘throughout their generations,' 1500 years (Ex 31:13-14; Ezek. 20:12). At Christ's resurrrection expired by statue limitation this peculiarity of excpetional change, leaving the divine rule for all mankind, requiring 1st day Sabbath keeping, as had been the case for the 1st 2500 years of human history.”
3. The Christian Sabbath or “Lord's Day” has been tradition since apostolic times. It came early to be known as the “Lord's Day” to distinguish it from the Jewish Sabbath. That this change was divienly authorized is show (1) by the example of Jesus, (2) by the authority of the apostles, (3) by the practices of the early church, and (4) by the testimony of the early apostolic fathers.
1. Jesus placed approval upon the 1st day of the week, by meeting with His disciples on this day. The resurrection took place on the morning of the 1st day of the week. The four accounts of the gosples agree that the Saviour arose early “the first day of the week.” His first meeting with the body of His diciples was on the evening of the resurrection day (John 20:19); and the second on the eveing of the 8th day, which would of course, be the foolowing first day of the next week. There were 3 more “first days” before the ascension, but it is not said whetehr Jesus met with His disciples on any or all of them. However, there were 3 more appearances: to the 500, to James, and to the apostles (1 Cor.15:1-4).
2. The Apolstles authorized the change, doubtless due to the unrecorded instrutions of Jesus during the 40 days (Acts 1:2). Thwenty five years later St. Paul worshiped, shared communion, and preached at Troas on Sunday (1 Cor 16:1-2). This clearly indicates that the apostle sanctioned the 1st day as the Christian Sabbath.
3. The practices of the early churches are further proof of wirship on Sunday. This is shown by the passages just cited, and also by St. John's reference to the Sabbath as the “Lord's day” (Rev 1:10). Since he uses the prhase without any refrecne to the first day, it is eveindece that when the Apocalypse was written, the 1st day was gnerally know as the “Lord's Day” in contradiction to the Jewish 7th day.
4. Since some of the early apostolic fathers were associated with the apostles, their writings from the historical standpoint, furnish conclusive eveicnec as to the current thgouht of that time. For example, Ignatius, plycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Theodoret, Eusebius, Origen, the Didache or Teaches of the Twelve all mention the sabbath observence being on the Lord's Day.


Putting all of this aside, I believe that God is more worried about the heart of the worshipper than the day of the worship. At my church, we worship on Sunday , Saturday, and Wednesday. Since God “lives in the praises of His people,” does it really matter what day we observe the Sabbath. If we become to legalistic and think that only Sunday or any day of the week is the only day to observe the Sabbath, then we are no better than the Pharasees who condemned Jesus for working on the Sabbath.

[Phileoeklogos]

The 7th Day Baptists are apparently on a Sabbatical

:wave:
1Jo 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God;
1Jo 3:22 and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him.
1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, that we believe in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he has commanded us.

[rural_preacher]

Colossians 2:8-17
"See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form, and you have been given fullness in Christ, who is the head over every power and authority. In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead.
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross. Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

[Danfrey]

I questioned the sabbath thing in the past. What I found is that from the earliest writings we have of Christianity, Christians gathered on the Lord's day. Jesus rose from the dead on Sunday, and that is the day they chose to worship. I don't have my reference materials in front of me, but if you would like the references I can find them.

[jochanaan]

I've been concentrating on other things and just found this thread. I am a Seventh Day Baptist, and yes, we do worship on the seventh-day Sabbath.

Danfrey, perhaps in your research you have come across the name of Samuele Bacchiochi. He is a Seventh-day Adventist scholar who obtained permission to research the Vatican archives regarding this very question and has published a book called From Sabbath to Sunday detailing his findings. He found that, contrary to popular belief, the Christian churches did not begin to worship regularly on Sunday until the second century A.D., and the justification that the change was due to the Lord's resurrection was not formulated until even later. The Catholic Church itself has never contradicted Dr. Bacchiochi's conclusions; indeed, they have acknowledged that their predecessors made the change without specific Scriptural justification. (There is an equally fine study called History of Sabbath and Sunday by a Seventh Day Baptist scholar named A.H. Lewis, but it has been long out of print.)

I might also mention that we have discussed the Sabbath question extensively on other threads in the General Theology section.

Silver Surfer, I might also add that Seventh Day Baptists, unlike many Seventh-day Adventists, have never believed that they were the only "chosen" people. We generally recognize that there are other understandings on this issue, and that such beliefs, sincerely held, will probably not keep anyone out of Heaven; yet we feel that, as a matter of love and obedience (not "works-righteousness"), we should return to the seventh day. (The Jews, notable record-keepers, still affirm that the day most of the world knows as Saturday is indeed God's ancient Sabbath.)

What else did you want to know about us?

[Phileoeklogos]

Hello Jochanaan,
I knew their was a few 7th Day Baptists and that you all are a small movement, so could you share a bit of the movement's history with us? I am especially interested in the pre-1840's history of your movement.

Thank You
Phil

[jochanaan]

Well, Phileoklogos (what an unusual name! What does it mean?), we began in the 1600s in England as an aftereffect of the Protestant Reformation. Many Baptist individuals of that time began to study the Bible regarding the Sabbath question, and came to the conclusion that there is no Scriptural justification for the change from Sabbath to Sunday. The first SDB church was formed in 1659 in London, and it still exists as the Mill Yard SDB Church.

Many of those early Sabbath-keeping Baptists emigrated to the American colonies, and although they were persecuted in Massachusetts and Connecticut, they found a haven in Roger Williams' Rhode Island. The first American SDB church was formed in 1671 in Newport, Rhode Island; the building still exists and is a local historical landmark.

As Seventh Day Baptists increased in number, they often found it necessary, rather than living in communities with non-Sabbatarian Christians, to settle in their own communities. Towns begun as Seventh Day Baptist settlements include Piscataway, New Jersey; Salem, West Virginia; and Milton, Wisconsin, among others. Alfred University and Alfred Seminary in Alfred, New York, were originally Seventh Day Baptist institutions.

The Ephrata Cloister in Pennsylvania was a German Sabbath-keeping community (virtually a commune) that had close ties with Seventh Day Baptists individuals and groups.

Until 1802 there was no central organization uniting Seventh Day Baptists, although individual churches maintained correspondence. That year the Seventh Day Baptist General Conference met for the first time, and by the 1840s was meeting annually.

Seventh Day Baptists grew greatly in the latter half of the 19th century, but through the 20th century until today our membership in the U.S. and Canada has held steady at about 5,000. There are also Seventh Day Baptists all around the world. The SDB World Federation was formed in 1965.

For more information, feel free to visit our denominational website at http://www.seventhdaybaptist.org/7db/Default_EN.asp

God bless!

(Are you a Seventh-day Adventist? If so, much of the history your denomination teaches regarding Sabbath-keeping Christians is our history.)

[Andyman_1970]

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ."

Well said RP, well said.

I believe in Jesus we have the freedom to worship on any day, and I can see why most Christians worship on Sunday (as do I).........I do not however believe that the day God commanded to be a Sabbath changed, that has always been and always will be the 7th day.

It's nice to see some 7th day Baptists on here, I'm looking forward to their input.

[Phileoeklogos]

Thanks Jochanaan,

I found the history quite interesting, I wasn't sure how much history the SDB's had, I wasn't sure if they were one of the spin-off groups that came about after the Millerites dissolved or had been around longer.

No, I am not SDA, I am a Baptist, and the literal translation of my screen name is " Love of Word or Love of the Word", Jesus being the Word I love.

Peace

[jochanaan]

I found the history quite interesting, I wasn't sure how much history the SDB's had, I wasn't sure if they were one of the spin-off groups that came about after the Millerites dissolved or had been around longer.
Definitely longer.:D

You may also be interested to know that it was a Seventh Day Baptist woman, Rachel Oakes Preston, who convinced a group of Millerites in 1845 that the seventh-day Sabbath was the proper day on which to rest and worship. By all accounts, she was quite a lady.

My own reading has convinced me that there have been Sabbath-keeping Christians throughout Christian history. Many Waldenses/Vaudois (Christians who from the 12th century onward refused to acknowledge the Roman Church) were Sabbath-keepers, as well as some Hussites (followers of Jan Hus, an early Reformer from Bohemia a century before Martin Luther, whom some call a heretic and some a martyr).

[Phileoeklogos]

I must have heard about the results of R.A. Preston's work, I agree that their have been Sabbath day groups down thru history, I would just be careful as to which ones I would claim association with, alot of times people will be quick to claim association with some group based on adherence to just that one thing they have in common, and disreguard everything else the group believes, the Landmarkists, trail of blood folks like to do that with baptism.
I personally have made my decision about Sabbath keeping long ago, I don't have a problem with it as long as it is done with the right belief, when it's made a salvational/orthodox/sanctification/ works righteousness belief, well then I do have a problem with it, but I do believe that all down thru church history and from the earliest days,you can find groups worshipping on one or the other day, and some on both, and I think we should all be 7 day worshippers............ peace

[jochanaan]

...I would just be careful as to which ones I would claim association with, alot of times people will be quick to claim association with some group based on adherence to just that one thing they have in common...
Yeah, there have been a few weird Sabbath-keeping groups, haven't there?:eek: :sigh: Fortunately the Seventh Day Baptists have always encouraged individual Bible study and personal conviction rather than strict submission to leaders.

It comes down to this for me: As long as we're setting aside one day in seven--and nearly all Christians do this in one form or another--why not set aside the day the Lord original chose?:)

[JPPT1974]

We all need to serve the Lord
The way we need to do so
Because it doesn't matter what denomination that you belong too!

[jochanaan]

Very true, JPPT, very true!:thumbsup: :wave:

[Silver Surfer]

Hello Jochanaan,
I knew their was a few 7th Day Baptists and that you all are a small movement, so could you share a bit of the movement's history with us? I am especially interested in the pre-1840's history of your movement.

Thank You
PhilHi Phil,
The SDA church started as a result of intense Bible study on the part of William Miller....although Miller was never an SDA.

He found the Bible prophecy in Daniel 8:14........ 8:14 "And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed".
And he studied it out to understand what it meant.

Which led to the greatest revival in the history of the USA, including 100,000's of people.

Although the prophecy happened as foretold, the people's interpretation was wrong as to the event of their hope in the 2nd return of Jesus Christ.

The Bible even predicted their great disappointment (Revelation 10)......
10:9 And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take [it], and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.
10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.
Their expectation of the 2nd coming of Jesus was sweet as honey to them......but their disappointment was bitter, when it did not happen as they thought it would.
10:11 And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

[Silver Surfer]

Definitely longer.:D

You may also be interested to know that it was a Seventh Day Baptist woman, Rachel Oakes Preston, who convinced a group of Millerites in 1845 that the seventh-day Sabbath was the proper day on which to rest and worship. By all accounts, she was quite a lady.

My own reading has convinced me that there have been Sabbath-keeping Christians throughout Christian history. Many Waldenses/Vaudois (Christians who from the 12th century onward refused to acknowledge the Roman Church) were Sabbath-keepers, as well as some Hussites (followers of Jan Hus, an early Reformer from Bohemia a century before Martin Luther, whom some call a heretic and some a martyr).Yes, God has always had a people, who were loyal to Himself.

[tulc]

The Bible even predicted their great disappointment

This disappoinment? :scratch:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Disappointment
tulc(and you're right, Miller himself was never an SDA) :)