Inappropriate words acceptable in the Bible?

[VictorianAngel84]

Last night at Bible study I had my Message remix Bible in front of me (I've been using it because I understand it better) and we studying David and Jonathan's friendship in 1 and 2 Samuel. Well, our pastor uses the NIV translation and in 1 Samuel 20:30 it has Saul saying to Jonathan, "you son of a perverse woman", mine put it,,,cough...differantly. It said, "you son of a s***". I know it means the same, but it seems so vulgar. So I was wondering, what do you all think? My mother in-law even has a translation that has Saul referring to his son as the, "son of a w****". :eek:

[mlqurgw]

I would suggest that you not use paraphrases. They are full of the opinions and interpretations of the writers. If you don't like the KJV then get an NASB or some other translation. Since your pastor uses the NIV perhaps you should use it.

As far as the use of words in the Scriptures; there is nothing wrong with words it is how we use them that makes them bad. Also there is a difference in taking the name of the Lord in vain and being vulgar. To say Lord or Lordy without the proper reverence is to take His anme in vain. To say "shi*" is only vulgar.

[Andyman_1970]

In Matthew when Jesus is teaching about how food doesn't make someone unclean their heart does He talks about something you eat and then it passes through you.......in some of the Aramaic Texts that word would translate as the "s" word in English.

This word became vulgar in the victorian era and did not hold the same "punch" or vulgarity in the 1st century.....so some of it is cultural what words we think are vulgar and which ones we think aren't.

[daveleau]

Many of these words have perfectly acceptable theological meaning, yet are not looked upon well in church because of their habitual misuse. "Damn" is a perfect example, since it has a pertienent theological meaning. It should not be misused, but should not bring offense when used in the right context. The W word is another word for promiscuity. The S word is a similar word and neither is not necessarily bad, provided they are used in the right context. Both W and S work as synonymns for "promiscuous and evil woman."

As for a paraphrase, I would not use that as my primary Bible. Many avoid them completely, but some believe they help in understanding when simply reading Scripture. But, regardless of the view you take, remember that a paraphrase really shouldn't be studied indepth, since it is often not true to the original text. A more conventional translation is recommended for indepth study.

[JPPT1974]

They are a lot of words in the bible
That don't belong in there
As I whole-heartedly agree
Like the ox aka A** word

[arunma]

Last night at Bible study I had my Message remix Bible in front of me (I've been using it because I understand it better) and we studying David and Jonathan's friendship in 1 and 2 Samuel. Well, our pastor uses the NIV translation and in 1 Samuel 20:30 it has Saul saying to Jonathan, "you son of a perverse woman", mine put it,,,cough...differantly. It said, "you son of a s***". I know it means the same, but it seems so vulgar. So I was wondering, what do you all think? My mother in-law even has a translation that has Saul referring to his son as the, "son of a w****". :eek:

I haven't read The Message very often. When I read your post, I stood in disbelief, and had to actually check this translation. Much to my surpirse, it really does use this word. Based on the literal translations that I've read, my guess is that the original Greek (or Hebrew, if you favor the Masoretic tradition) has something which would translate to, "You son of a perverse, rebellious woman!"

I agree that the Message translators probably shouldn't have put this word into their translation.

[arunma]

I would suggest that you not use paraphrases. They are full of the opinions and interpretations of the writers. If you don't like the KJV then get an NASB or some other translation. Since your pastor uses the NIV perhaps you should use it.

If I may add to this list of suggestions, the English Standard Version is also quite a good literal translation, in my opinion.

[VictorianAngel84]

I think I'm gonna set the Message Bible on a shelf and go ahead and read my NKJV and NIV, it's probably better to do that since I really need to know what God's word says, instead of it being paraphrased.

I can understand "damn" being in the Bible cause it's just a shortened form of condemnation. :thumbsup:

[constance]

Yeah. I just did a brief check of "The Message" against a literal translation.

Check out
Nahum 3:6

6I'll pelt you with dog dung and place you on a pedestal: "S*** on Exhibit.'

vs
6And I have cast upon thee abominations, And dishonoured thee, and made thee as a sight.

Or Jeremiah 18:13GOD's Message:"Ask around. Survey the godless nations. Has anyone heard the likes of this? Virgin Israel has become a s***!

vs
13Therefore, thus said Jehovah: Ask, I pray you, among the nations, Who hath heard like these? A very horrible thing hath the virgin of Israel done.

[DeaconDean]

Not that there isn't anything wrong with paraphrase bibles, I just don't like the way the message is changed. Since most people don't like or have trouble with the KJV, they will use another version. Nothing wrong with that, but watch the version you use because the message can get changed within the various other versions.

Example:

"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman." -1 Cor. 7:1 in the KJV

"Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry." -1 Cor. 7:1 in the NIV

While the message Paul is trying to say is about sexual realationships, the NIV makes it sound like a message against marriage. While some do not like the KJV, when using any paraphrased Bible, I suggest you crossreference those passages against the KJV, NKJV, RSV, NRSV, NASV, or any along these lines.

[arunma]

Not that there isn't anything wrong with paraphrase bibles, I just don't like the way the message is changed. Since most people don't like or have trouble with the KJV, they will use another version. Nothing wrong with that, but watch the version you use because the message can get changed within the various other versions.

Example:

"Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman." -1 Cor. 7:1 in the KJV

"Now for the matters you wrote about: It is good for a man not to marry." -1 Cor. 7:1 in the NIV

While the message Paul is trying to say is about sexual realationships, the NIV makes it sound like a message against marriage. While some do not like the KJV, when using any paraphrased Bible, I suggest you crossreference those passages against the KJV, NKJV, RSV, NRSV, NASV, or any along these lines.

I know this is somewhat unrelated, but from reading the entire book of 1 Corinthians in the ESV (which is a literal translation), it seems to me that according to God, marriage is good, and singleness is even better. Do you think this is a proper Biblical exegesis?

[DeaconDean]

I know this is somewhat unrelated, but from reading the entire book of 1 Corinthians in the ESV (which is a literal translation), it seems to me that according to God, marriage is good, and singleness is even better. Do you think this is a proper Biblical exegesis?

In light of what Paul was relating, yes I do.

Now it goes without saying that we shouldn't have sex prior to marriage. But that if we couldn't wait, then "let every man have his own wife, and every woman her own husband." -1 Cor. 7:2 But if we can abstain from sex, then we would be in a better position to care for the things of God rather than the things of the body.(i.e. sex) -1 Cor 7:32-33 As far as marriage is concerned, God instituted that instition in the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve. And there is a blessing that comes with being married. As a matter of fact, aren't we taught in Hebrews that: "Marriage is honourable in all," -Heb. 13:4

It is just my observation, but before we got older and experienced what sex was, wasn't life a whole lot simpler before that? And some people, not all, after they have had sex tend to let that be the driving force in their life. It is really too bad we can't learn early in life what Paul said here: "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection:" -1 Cor. 9:27

Am I wrong?

[Proeliator]

They are a lot of words in the bible
That don't belong in there
As I whole-heartedly agree
Like the ox aka A** word

Thats not words that dont belong there, thats words that we people over time hav echanged the meaning of. To take many of those like that out of the Bible would be to change the Word.

[VictorianAngel84]

I have another paraphrased Bible (this one I threw away) called The Living Word and instead of, "son of a s***", it said, "Son of a b****". I literally gasped, maybe I overreacted to the first one.

[arunma]

I have another paraphrased Bible (this one I threw away) called The Living Word and instead of, "son of a s***", it said, "Son of a b****". I literally gasped, maybe I overreacted to the first one.

I wouldn't be so quick to throw away any Bible translation. We must be very careful not to disrespect the words of God, after all.

[VictorianAngel84]

I wouldn't be so quick to throw away any Bible translation. We must be very careful not to disrespect the words of God, after all.

Is it truly the Word of God if it says such things? The KJV says, "thou son of the perverse rebellious woman", I don't see where what was written was all that close.

[Athanasian Creed]

I wouldn't be so quick to throw away any Bible translation. We must be very careful not to disrespect the words of God, after all.

The Message and Living Bible are NOT translations - they are paraphrases and, especially in the case of the Message, a PERversion. It is a distortion of Scripture to the nth degree - for instance,

Self-help is no help at all. Self-sacrifice is the way, my way, to finding yourself, your true self (The Message, Matt. 16:25)

“For whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake shall find it.” (NASB, same verse)

The Message has altered the meaning of Jesus’ words into a means by which a person "finds himself", a fad having roots back to the 1960s and rooted in New Age "feel-goodism" but not to the Bible.

The Message paraphrase ofRomans 12:3 says, The only accurate way to understand ourselves is by what God is and by what he does for us.”

In contrast, the NASB translation of the verse -

For by the grace given to me I say to every man among you not to think more highly of himself than he ought to think; but to think so as to have sound judgment, as God has allotted to each a measure of faith.

And on and on one could pinpoint the myriad of times The Message "paraphrase" constantly changes and abuses the meaning of the texts.

Good for you that you put such perversive "paraphrases" that masquerade as God's Word on the shelf, or better yet, burn them. Stick with a reputable translation! :thumbsup:


Ray :wave:

[JPPT1974]

Thats not words that dont belong there, thats words that we people over time hav echanged the meaning of. To take many of those like that out of the Bible would be to change the Word.

You are right about that
Thanks for explaining my friend
Bible should be always the same!

[DawnTillery]

Last night at Bible study I had my Message remix Bible in front of me (I've been using it because I understand it better) and we studying David and Jonathan's friendship in 1 and 2 Samuel. Well, our pastor uses the NIV translation and in 1 Samuel 20:30 it has Saul saying to Jonathan, "you son of a perverse woman", mine put it,,,cough...differantly. It said, "you son of a s***". I know it means the same, but it seems so vulgar. So I was wondering, what do you all think? My mother in-law even has a translation that has Saul referring to his son as the, "son of a w****". :eek:
Yes changing too much can change the meanings.... Yikes!

I prefer KJV .. i have a matthew henry KJV study bible..

[Phileoeklogos]

I am almost hesitant to comment, but, if you find words in your Bible that shock you, GREAT, it means that you are really taking the time to read it and thats always a good thing.

Don't be surprised when you are shocked by what you find, but realize that sometimes God said things that were meant to shock, sin is ugly, and sometimes ugly is best described as just plain old ugly. There are parts of the Bible we can't make into non-offensive stories to tell children in Sunday School.

[catch21wide]

The KJV version was translated from Hebrew and Greek. The NKJV version just doesn't use thee, thy, thou, etc. The NIV version is basically words of today, but can be related back to the KJV. Paraphrases are not Bibles. They might hold biblical stories, but using the stories in another context is not from the Bible. The Bible is the inerrant word of God. It was written of God, by God, and for God. Every verse, every line, every word, and every letter was inspired by God. It wasn't written so that it would be paraphrased and compromised. I was written so that people of the world would learn about God and come to know Jesus Christ as their Saviour and Lord. Some of the words used in the Bible are taken out of context in today's world. If the Bible uses the word "ass" to describe a donkey, it shouldn't be used any other way. In the book of Revelations, it warns that the Bible is not to be added to or changed.

[handmaiden97]

I'm not for paraphrase bibles, but I do own the message, sometimes I read it just to read it, neve to study. I know it shocks us when we read the word s***. But when Hosea marries a prostitue dont you suppose the origianal hewbrew word was just as shocking and offensive. That is the point, in putting those workds in, although vulger they do get the point across.

A friend of mine reads the KJV bible to her kids and edits out the fact that certain women were prostitutes, slept with their father, brother, and edits out all violent deaths like the man who was stabbed while in the restroom....I think she is doign a great diservice to here kids....if they never see it, talk of it or hear of it, how will they respond when they see it as teens or adults?

[catch21wide]

I'm not for paraphrase bibles, but I do own the message, sometimes I read it just to read it, neve to study. I know it shocks us when we read the word s***. But when Hosea marries a prostitue dont you suppose the origianal hewbrew word was just as shocking and offensive. That is the point, in putting those workds in, although vulger they do get the point across.

A friend of mine reads the KJV bible to her kids and edits out the fact that certain women were s, slept with their father, brother, and edits out all violent s like the man who was stabbed while in the restroom....I think she is doign a great diservice to here kids....if they never see it, talk of it or hear of it, how will they respond when they see it as teens or s?

All I can say is Amen! Amen! Amen! :amen: No one regardless of age should be kept from learning every aspect of the word of God.